by
Christina Patrice
African women at a natural hair gathering in Cote D’Ivoire Photo Source
One of the most dynamic things about the natural hair community is the unashamed celebration of the diversity and dopeness of our hair.
The sense of pride involved in making a conscious decision to embrace one’s God-given mane is an accomplishment worthy of accolade. I know, some of you may think “it’s just hair” — but for many black women, the move to embrace natural hair borders on the revolutionary. In a global culture that still holds Eurocentric beauty as the standard, black women have to fight to be visible, to be represented, and to have our hair considered beautiful and professional.
Out of this uphill battle for validation and representation, hubs of self-support emerged in the natural hair community — from Fotki and forums to YouTube, blogs and dedicated social media accounts and groups (such as #TeamNatural, #NaturalHairDaily, and even brands like #CurlBox). When we couldn’t find products that catered specifically to our hair, brands like Miss Jessie’s, Carol’s Daughter, Camille Rose Naturals, Koils By Nature, Shea Moisture and Eden BodyWorks emerged to meet our natural hair needs. Now in 2014, companies that couldn’t be bothered before are shelling out natural and curly hair products in an attempt to get our money diversify their product offerings. We’re “on trend” in the mainstream (even marginally so) because dollar signs never go out of style.
We created a community for ourselves and now women of other races want in.
Should we even be bothered? Does the notion of embracing natural hair belong solely to women of the African Diaspora? Or is the idea of learning to accept and love one’s true texture a universal idea that we all can unite behind, regardless of ethnicity?
I personally believe in the exclusivity of the natural hair community. Not in a Mean Girls “you can’t sit with us” kind of way, but in the sense that the journey to self-love and seeing value in blackness as beautiful is a struggle that no other woman of any other background can identify with. Period. We, as black women have been beaten into believing in the inferiority of our aesthetics for centuries and that makes me very protective of any space that we utilize to affirm and build ourselves. The natural hair community (via blogs, Facebook groups, Instagram pages, etc.) is just that.
The fetishization obsession with Lupita Nyong’o means no more that we have arrived than the election of Barack Obama ushered in a “post-racial” society. Exclusivity does not equal racism or reverse racism for that matter. Everything black has been gentrified, appropriated, repackaged, and resold as popular culture. So when black women consciously decide to cultivate a safe space to celebrate, support and encourage each other, it is to be treated as just that. Guards up and rightfully so. An affinity for the same hair products as a foundation for shared experience does not constitute a pass and ignoring the privileged mindset that allows one to assume they’re owed access is the problem.
When women of other ethnicities — whether they are Asian-American, Latina-American or Native American — create communities around their experiences, there seems to be a tacit understanding that the space is reserved for them and that’s okay. However, when black women make the same demand, it is often seen as sinister, angry and yes, racist.
This does not mean that there is no value in shared spaces with women of other backgrounds. There is power in the global presence of textured hair and that is not to be discounted. It is estimated that over 60% of women around the world have wavy, kinky, curly, or coily hair. That matters. And the multi-racial communities that celebrate textured women regardless of race — like NaturallyCurly — also matter. But the way that matters is different, and carries a different valuation separate from the exclusively black natural hair community. Both can exist, and both SHOULD exist.
At the end of the day, the beauty of this natural hair community is that we define it for ourselves. There are no hard and fast rules and there is a certain freshness in that fluidity. So I pose the question to you: who gets to claim #TeamNatural?
574 Responses
y’all…. i saw me a chinese woman with 3c-4c kinks. It was the scariest thing ever. I could tell it was hers as she’s always hiding it in buns, and I could tell she needed a trim real bad. But wow…. i had to rethink some things.
Natural hair as much as I want it to be a melanated/black thing applies to other ethnicities who naturally have coils and kinks. I don’t know …
No “racism” but IMO white people with afro look ridiculous
pale skin, red or blonde afro hair almost like clowns lol. Again no “racism”
But honestly to me white people who have real afro hair are lucky and can look attractive. I’ve known quite few white people with genuine afro hair and that hair only made them look better than they would have with straight hair. But black women (of course that includes all women of african ancestry regardless of which country they were born)look beyond amazing with their natural hair. Permed or straightened hair just doesn’t do us justice. Even if ones straightened hair looks nice, black women just look so much more amazing with their natural curly/afro hair. It really fits us best.
I think white people with afro-looking hair is still a euro texture, look at the strands, look at the curl pattern, feel the texture, its just poofy euro hair, its doesnt feel or look like real Afro textured hair. Even jew-fros are still curly silky hair. they still have euro looking hair.
No matter how non-blacks may claim they also have afros, Afro textured hair is exclusive to black and black mixed people. The texture is VERY unique because it IS our ethnic strait that we have in our gene pool.
As a Black woman I think having our own #teamnatural space is important (And I include all women who identify with being ‘Black’ and those in the African Diaspora in that term). For us it’s not ‘Just hair’ it’s deeper than that…As a Black woman have you ever:
-Been teased because of your natural hair? Been called names like ‘nappy-headed’ because of your hair texture? Gotten a perm/relaxer to ‘fit’ in with your classmates but then been on the brink of failing the swim portion of gym class because you couldn’t go in the water for fear that it would break off your hair? Done poorly in gym class because you didn’t want to sweat out your perm/relaxer? Felt the burn of the straightening comb/or lye more times than you can remember as a child? Been thoroughly embarrassed to wear your natural hair as-is because of the negative comments you were sure to face? Told time and time again by someone that they didn’t know what to “do” with your natural hair in terms of style? Been given a relaxer or texturizer so that your hair could be more manageable? Had a hairstylist try to convince you to get a relaxer even though you’d already stated that you were not interested in one? Been told that wearing braids to your prom wasn’t a reasonable option and told to get a perm instead? Been kicked out or suspended from school for wearing a natural hairstyle? Been passed over for a job because of your natural hairstyle? Have you changed your hair from it’s natural state (through weaves, relaxers/perms etc) in order to go on a job interview? Been fired from a job because of your natural hair? Been told that your hair is ‘more professional’ when you change it up & wear it in a ‘less natural-looking manner (ie straightened?) Been asked if you are ‘fighting the power’ or being political when you wear your hair in an afro? Been asked by family members and/or friends when you were going to ‘do’ your (naturally-styled) hair? Been stopped on the street by an older Black woman and told in a ‘loving’ tone that you should comb your hair? Been dumped by a significant other because of your natural hair? Had your natural hair hair petted by a co-worker without your permission? Had your sexuality questioned because of your natural hair? Heard the term ‘good hair’ repeatedly but never in reference to your hair/curl pattern? Had certain natural hairstyles banned at your school and/work place and/or in the branch of the armed forces you serve in? Been told to wear a wig to cover your natural hairstyle in certain work environments ‘or else’?
#teamnatural is more than hair…it’s a cultural movement. Sure some non-Black women with naturally curly hair can relate to having curly hair but for them it is ultimately ‘just hair’ for some like me, it’s way deeper than that.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/LovetheJourney.jpg[/img]
White women with curly hair will never stop wanting to seek attention, it’s sad really. That is all about seeking attention, White women always want all eyes on THEM, so that’s why you all are seeing this big controversy over the natural black hair thing.I don’t understand how white women with their nasal sounding baby voices really hope to see attention once again redirected towards them, if they don’t have truly Afro textured hair? I will tell yall one thing, these white women aren’t making any new friends.
Bottom line, right is right and wrong is wrong. Even though who want to learn about their hair, can’t be all that bad if they are viiting this site. It’s not like they are causing any real harm unless they start bitching about how ‘unfair’ life was to them. But just simply learning about a new product to help take care of their hair should be no problem.
White women cannot relate to black women’s on the topic of hair, it just doesn’t work that way.
Honestly, it is not racist at all. Our hair are different from other races, and I mean, you can’t expect most of us to wash our hair everyday (like some of my white and asian friends do). And the fact that I sometimes see products advertised towards other races bother me, because they have a completely different hairtype..and…guh
Well the way I see it natural hair isn’t a solely black experience. I grew up in a primarily black caribbean country, with a black family ( excluding my mother who is very very.. white) and I lived all my early years with the same natural hair struggles because i have very kinky 3c hair and because I am lighter skinned ( very fair) people often had a hard time classifying me as one thing or the other. I had no idea how to care for my hair and as all my black family had relaxed hair, neither did they. As for my mother she attempted styles that worked on her hair, and certainly did not on mine. At around 13 I began relaxing my hair and up until about 4 months ago I had relaxed hair that was limp, damaged and troublesome. I decided to big chop, and now with my TWA to care for I turn to the natural hair community to teach me what I never knew to do, that is to care for and to manage my natural hair. I find it very offensive that because I just so happen to have light skin I should have to feel excluded from a community of people who I FELT understood embracing who you are despite what others choose to define you as. I don’t define myself under any race. I’m learning to love my natural hair, the same natural hair I spent so much money and time trying to hide. So if you mean to say my journey isn’t as valid as someone else’s just because I’m “white” then you can take your racist ideas elsewhere.
I think this is the problem, we are not saying curly or kinky hair is exclusively a “black” thing. The problem is people of 100% European DNA getting on here claiming they can relate to the pain, bigotry and feeling ugly like black women have felt over 100’s and 100’s of years due to white supremacist attitudes. People telling you your hair is “Ugly” no matter what you do to it. Society has been all up in black women’s hair since we all first stepped off the damn slave ships. So this site is for people who feel that they want to shed the slave mentality and encourage other blac women to love themselves because people have shown the “curly white girl hair love regardless, and that you are not taught that you are an inferior animal because of your African blood. It has nothing to do with white women who just kind of get made fun of in grade school for having hair that’s a little different than their other white friends. I’m sorry but it’s not the same thing. I can see that you are STILL black according to your description of yourself, so you WOULD actually relate to and understand the pain that black women have gone through. Black comes in all colors. In my experience people who claim that other people “can’t tell they are black” are usually people who DO actually look like they have black in them or are black ENOUGH looking to pass for some type of black. I’m just saying most people CAN probably tell you are black or have something to do with being black? I don’t know?
So to make a long story short, black women get called “Ugly” “fat” “poor” “bad hair” I just don’t think or believe for one second that white women with curly hair go through un-healable pain that black women have had to go through. I highly doubt most white women with curly hair get called a dirty animal with “nappy” hair, made to feel subhuman and like a monkey for having kinky hair.
It was black Americans that came up with term, so from their unique perspective and experiences in this country it is what it is. If you as a Caribbean person relate, despite what you chose to call yourself, then so be it! But that does not mean the term should be hijacked by other people when it was originally created as a support mechanism for naturals who live in a western society that typically does not view their hair beautiful. I lived in the Caribbean and London, UK for several years, so I know what issues Caribbean black people have. Some are still catering to the queen and kissing white westerners behinds while others are proud people. It varies. But I definitely would not change my views just because you grew up with a white mother (in a different country mind you) and happen to have our afro textured hair.
I think the term Natural is not just a black american term, Ive been hearing it with my black Caribbean family for years and years, even my grandparents who are fairly old called virgin black people hair, natural. I think its just a black diaspora term.
The same things happen in the Caribbean island I reside in. Natural hair isnt common or isnt taken care of well (slapped grease in, harsh combing, pressing and hot combs, no moisture etc) and the preferred way to wear your hair is weave and relaxers.
There are small natural hair communities popping up around the Caribbean, one known group where I live. So the term natural isnt a term AA came up with, I just think its a term black people all over used, i think.
All and All, 100% Euro people do not belong in the NHC unless they need info for their mixed child or adoptive black child who is natural. THey wanna claim it as their creation and if they succeed, black hair will be removed from the movement and all you will see is euro wavy hair and eventually straight hair as the preferred yet again.
I am SO GLAD Black natural women( and men, remember men are growing their hair out too!) are strongly saying NO.
Gives me hope the NHC will remain ours as it should be.
Exclusion isnt racism.
You say that you have a Black family, correct? Just because your mom is White and you classify as White (although you also stated that you don’t classify as any race), due to the fact that you have Black blood, you are still considered to be within the Black/African diaspora, as are Caribbean people, Brazilian people, and people all over the world who are descendants of Africans. Just because you don’t consider yourself to be Black or don’t “define (yourself) under any race” does not mean that Sub-Saharan African genes aren’t found in your DNA. You should be proud to claim a Black heritage; we have a history that goes back further than any Euro or Asian history, and ancient Greek and Roman civilizations were patterned after ancient Egyptian/Sudanese culture (proven to be Black Africans). Nonetheless, due to you being a descendant of Africa, you are most definitely welcome in the natural hair community! It’s also understandable that White mothers who have mixed-race children would want to join, since this will better help them to understand and care for their children’s hair 🙂
I personally believe that the black natural hair community should be shared because it is the black natural hair community, and no, not because of skin color or even hair type, but because of different culture and different experiences. BUT I also don’t think that black people should be the only ones able to claim the term “natural”. In my opinion natural is what it is, and yes we have redifined the term natural for OUR COMMUNITY, but not for everybody else, so there can be other natural hair communities as there are other people of other races that end up with similar hair types that we sometimes view as exclusive to black people. And just seeing as the fact that I don’t like to be a hypocrite, you must remember that back in the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s white people said the exact same thing “exclusivity by race isn’t racism” but it clearly was, and you can’t fight racism with racism so yes I feel the way about the black natural hair community as I stated above but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t welcome a kind soul who just so happened to have a different skin color than mine in to the community, because it isn’t my right or anybody but God’s to decide who does and doesn’t deserve to be a part of something. Because last time I checked there are still quite a few self-hating black women in our natural hair community that is supposed to be about “empowerment” and “self-confidence/ love” so yes, exclusivity IS racism, and we as black people should be the LAST people implementing or tolerating racism. smh
As a black woman from the Dominican Republic, I know what it is like to see how women with natural hair are treated. In fact, this is still a problem. I was laughed at a Dominican salon for not wanting to straighten my hair and styling it natural. I have learned a lot from many hair sites, black and white included. However, as an educated person who lives in the United States, I am disheartened reading all of these comments jumping on “white women.” I am so tired of hearing “white privilege” as an excuse, or a term that is even mentioned. It is disgusting, overused, and simply rude. There are many white people who are poor and struggle but do not gain the same attention because they can’t play the race card. I was born in the Bronx, and struggled in life, but I do not associate it with my race. I blame it on my alcoholic father and my mother’s mental issues. From a logical perspective these ideologies about white and black are quite ridiculous and do not have any sound value. For one, there is no universal black experience. An African from Ethiopia, an African American woman, and a black woman from the UK do not share in the same experiences. I would say that a White Southern poor person has more in common with a Southern black person than a person from a different culture. Black people today have used the term “white privilege” as a way to latch on to reverse racism. I see, for instance, in the comments people mentioning an instance in their lives that someone made a racist comment or some random experience that was perceived to be racist. I have had black women say nasty things to me, roll their eyes at me. However, I have enough sense to not use that as a judgement on African American women. Also, believe it or not, not every white person’s ancestor in America was a slave owner, nor do they share in the same experience. Even if they were, it is irrelevant. Everyone today has the opportunity to succeed. My husband, in fact is of Polish descent and his grandmother came here a few generations ago. This privilege that they mention did not exist for him. My husband joined the military, and that is the reason we are at the point that we are. Although racism does exist, it is not this huge issue that is made out by the black community. On the contrary, it is oftentimes black women who are bitter and have low self esteem who have oftentimes demonstrated nasty attitudes and resentment on many occasions. If we are to truly rise to a better state, and if one is truly proud of one’s “black” heritage then one should be inviting everyone to experience it so that they understand. Further reinforcing differences is of know value. Also,you say that Latinas and Asians have their own categories in things, but I guarantee you, however, if someone of a different ethnicity wanted to join that they would not be met with this much opposition and hatefulness. I feel sorry for black people who feel this way about other people because it truly limits your experience in life. White women, or no person, should not be made to feel guilty about something that happened in the past because of the color of their skin. Afterall, the reason slavery ended was because of the Judeo-Christian principles (brought by Europeans). So people educate yourselves, love thy neighbor, and get over it! Martin Luther king Jr. fought hard for equality of races and today these opportunities are here for all! I know this is intended for just hair, and it may not seem that serious, but the comments on this article have spurred me to write this. Race also assumes that interracial marriages are not on the rise, as they are! My children will not be defined by their race but by their character.
Wow, I just don’t know where to begin? You actually have the AUDACITY to say that it was, “Afterall, the reason slavery ended was because of the Judeo-Christian principles (brought by Europeans). So people educate yourselves, love thy neighbor, and get over it! Martin Luther king Jr. fought hard for equality of races and today these opportunities are here for all!”
I’m also of Afro-Latin, Afro-Asiatic descent so I decided to answer your ignorance. I am a black woman as well with Puerto Rican and Arab ancestors myself. I also don’t have a problem with you expressing your views even though you are completely uneducated about the topic of slavery.
Slavery ending actually had very little to do with white Judeo-Christian values. And since the BIBLE seems to promote and endorse slavery, your comments TRULY defy logic?
Uh, have you actually read the bible? Those so called WHITE Christians obviously weren’t following anything that had to do with what was written in the bible. And since Jesus didn’t say ONE word against slavery, don’t bring his ass into it either. It was WHITE people who forced Christianity on BLACK people, sorry but you’re the one who’s ignorant and uneducated. While you’re at it, why don’t you learn a little more about the colorism that goes on within the Dominican community and the “attitudes” that many of you have towards black Americans that LOOK just like you? Even though you all steady deny that you’re truly “BLACK” anyway. Yes, I noticed how you added quotation marks “” around the word “Black” I can almost guarantee that you are one of those “Dominicans” who don’t REALLY see yourself as “black” anyway?
Ok so here we go, the same WHITE Christians who imposed their religious views on black people? Oh you’re not talking about those white people who colonized blacks right? You’re comments are so full of ignorance and lack of education and truth, it’s not even funny. Give me a break!
WHite women can’t be stopped from getting onto this site anymore than a Chinese woman who has a half black daughter, so there is nothing wrong with white women getting on here and learning about something that helps their unique hair. White women just will have to deal with being ignored that’s all. Reality check, no one can stop anyone from getting on BGLH a natural hair website, you people just crack me? You act as though we are going to take a DNA test before anyone can read any content on this website, I’m sure that is not the problem with what everyone is saying.
As for black American women being “bitter” and having an “attitude” you sound just like Tommy Sotomayor who is equally as stupid sounding as you are.
Furthermore, do your research about how slaverly actually ended. And why do you make it sound as though life was a great big hugging party after slavery ended? You act like white supremacy was never an issue? I think it’s stupid of you to assume that black people are angry about “slavery” we are not stupid enough to think that modern day white people were slaver holders, nor do most of us still carry a grudge about slavery in itself. Africans also owned Chinese slave
@Lonelycatlady
I completely agree with you that the “get over it” comment was too much. It’s complete nonsense, because even if blacks were to suddenly do so there is no guarantee that our sudden mutual decision would result in inclusivity by members of other races. Exclusivity is necessary, and should be promoted in the areas of our obvious genetic and cultural differences.
In defense of Christianity (which was not forced on me but chosen by me), you must remember that the slavery practiced by the Jews is nothing like the chattel slavery that was invented by Europeans. People were sold by their families (or sold themselves) into slavery in order to repay debts – they worked off loans that way. They could also be criminals, or the poor who needed a home. They could be Gentile or Jew. If you ever read the Old Testament laws regarding slaves, you will see that they had protections that prevented abuse. Also note, slaves of those times were permitted to run for political office, marry into the families of their owners, and own property. Being a slave was a job. Depending on the owner, it may or may not have been a rosy experience.
However, the chattel slavery our ancestors experienced in the West followed none of the biblical guidelines given for slaves. The Bible was picked apart and used as a tool to keep blacks in line. I mean, we weren’t even allowed to learn how to read it. In that sense, the Bible did help — once we actually knew what it said, and threw the facts of it at our oppressors, they had to (begrudgingly) agree that by their own holy book they were wrong. Slavery’s end had EVERYTHING to do with Judeo-Christian values. If we were not making arguments for the defense of our freedom to a Christianized people, our freedom could not be justified. The Darwinian red tooth and claw mentality would have served only to justify the destruction of other cultures. After all, the habitual occurrence of the strong conquering the weak is paramount to evolutionary theory.
Do bear in mind that Jesus often associated with the disenfranchised – women, tax collectors, Samaritans – people His own sometimes racist, often misogynistic people wouldn’t want to bother with. And remember, He said that in His Father’s house there are many mansions. He didn’t say we’d be the ones scrubbing them clean.
Christ’s blessings to you and yours.
The term “white privilege” is overused until you become a victim of it. You say you live in the States….then you HAVE been a victim of it, you’re just too blinded by your insane “we’re all the same” fantasies to even realize it. I bet you’re that one black person that I always see that hang out with a group of white people and think they don’t have racially discriminating thoughts about you…#smh
@Lonelycatlady, Your comment was so profound, I don’t even have any words to say but AWESOME!!!
hmm yes but the African diaspora are not the only ones that are benefiting from the movement, the Africans that are still in Africa benefit as well and are part of this community. don’t leave us out
African/Black diaspora would include those on the continent of Africa.
we ain’t talkin bout ‘chal lol.
I agree with this article wholeheartedly. We as a black community struggle even if it’s not our hair. So now that we have something we can embrace as our own, other races want to hop on the bandwagon. Other races knew way back when if they had curly hair or not. We’ve been getting our hair permed since five years old for most of us. So yes, we are excited to see what God really gave us and to know we don’t need to look like “other people.” Other races didn’t struggle with hair like blacks. So no personally, it’s not racism.
Just curious, in what way do white (or other non-black woman) woman “want in”? What is it they are wanting to be a part of? BGLH? BHM? What? Are they big chopping? GASP! Are they making a choice not to put chemicals in their hair? NO! Are they co-washing? WHAT?? What exactly are they doing to rattle the masses now? What are they trying to gentrify now?
Susie, your tone is as ridiculous as your ignorant questions. Certain non-black women want in on anything that is popular and they haven’t been invited to be a part of. Just like you found your way to this site, they have too. Most of them have enough sense not to come to a site for Black women and ask foolish questions with a nasty attitude. They read the article and comments, and keep it moving. Why didn’t you?
keep it moving and let us do us and you do you boo boo. You’re going to have rap and r&b why can’t you steal and be satisfied?
I have no idea who that Lorainne is but she did NOT teach me or anyone else crap about our hair. We black women developed the methods widely known based on our own personal trial and error. People like naptural85 were the ones who invented so many creative ways of handling our hair and for those people i am grateful. And, i noticed that white women, whether they have curly hair or not, are copying the same methods (while of course, not giving credit where it is due). Don’t get it twisted.
NaturalBeauty, For all your belly aching, you have still failed to answer the questions at hand. And by your response, your assumptions expose your own glaring ignorance! My questions are quite legitimate. WHAT ARE NON-BLACK WOMEN STEALING FROM BLACK WOMEN? HAIR?? HAIR KNOWLEDGE????
If you’re going TO throw out all of that ‘tude, the least you could do is answer the question! Because from where I’m sitting, the white woman who commented on her hair on THIS SITE was indeed ASKED. Just as the woman…Sarah I believe her name is…was ASKED to share her hair experience on CN. So…er…yeah…since invitation seems to be your issue, there you go. Those ladies were INVITED.
As far as my comments are concerned, BGLH is a moderated, non racist site. If they don’t like what I have to say, they can delete it or refuse to post. Nor do I see any disclaimers warning anyone of non-African descent (or anyone who dares disagree with the overwhelming victim mentality many here seem to share) their presence will be unwelcome. Just like you, I will post as I like. Who are you to dictate otherwise? What gives you that right???
Oh, and to counter your point, blacks have traditionally wanted into popular avenues they were not invited to as well: GOLF, TENNIS, COLLEGES, the PRESIDENCY, etc.
Oh, and let’s not forget that Lorraine Massey…A WHITE WOMAN…popularized the curly hair method employed by many many many black women.
Exclusion does not make you cool, progressive or even remotely intelligent. It leads you down the same path mired in hypocrisy and hate created by those you imagine threaten you. Grow up and recognize. Even Malcolm X grew to understand the futility of separation. My sistah!
Susie, I urge you to go back and read your own post. If you’d do that, you would see that I did answer the question that you asked.
I don’t know who this Lorraine woman is, but she nor any other white person has told me or can tell me ANYTHING about my Black hair that another Black person has not already told me. How is some white person going to educate me on my Black hair? Hair that I was born with and been loving and living with intimately and constantly since birth? That proves my point. It sounds as though she felt compelled to save the Black women and “enlighten these negroes” with information like our Hair is her invention.
And why are you so angry? Don’t tell me you’re another one of these Uncle Tom black folks out here that are so quick to jump down another Black persons throat to protect and defend your “good white folks.”.
I’ve said what I have to say. I’ll say it a million times over, and no temper tantrum of yours or anyone else’s is going to change my mind. So good day.
Oh and by the way, I hope you have as big of a mouth when it comes to fighting REAL racism, like the kind that Black women and men face everyday. You know so much about Lorraine, I hope you know just as much about the Black women who are harrassed at work or fired for wearing their natural hair; the Black girls that are made fun of or expelled from school because they wear their natural hair; the tv journalist that receive hate mail and death threats and other hate-filled comments because they wear their natural hair….did I miss the part where you were advocating just as hard for them? Go ahead, I’ll wait….(crickets)
Oh Susie, you really do have too much time on your hands don’t you?
Susie,
Apparently you’re upset because of the perceived exclusivity of the #teamnatural community and I understand that you wanted to prove a point but I’m dismayed at this part of your statement:
“Oh, and to counter your point, blacks have traditionally wanted into popular avenues they were not invited to as well: GOLF, TENNIS, COLLEGES, the PRESIDENCY, etc.”
The presidency? Do you mean of the United States of America? The United States of America that was essentially stolen away from the Native Americans & was built largely on the backs of and with the labor of African Slaves? Slaves who were more than invited–ie: kidnapped–to this land? Slaves who were not considered human? Slaves & their descendants who even after the emancipation proclamation were still treated unequally, discriminated against, politicized fetishsized and terrorized? Descendants of slaves who in many cases continue to be discriminated against? Female descendants of slaves, some who still fear wearing their natural hair in the work place because they might be seen as unprofessional or unkempt and worse yet, fired (because this has happened countless times)? Descendants of African American/Black women, some who are afraid or ashamed to wear their hair the way it grows out of their head based largely on fear of being stigmatized? Do THOSE types of people need to be invited (begrudgingly or so it seems according to your statement)to do something like run for president? If someone like the current POTUS who was born in this country wanted to run for that position it was his RIGHT to do so the last I checked. He didn’t have to be “invited” to do so….apparently with his political record, the support of his party and the votes of the electoral college he EARNED his entry into that ‘popular avenue’ twice.
Since you are so passionate about the #teamnatural movement (and I feel you girl, I’m passionate about it too) You might find this reading material enlightening:
-Hair Story: Untangling the Roots of Black Hair in America-Ayana Bird, Lori Tharps
-Hair Raising: Beauty, Culture, and African American Women-Noliwe M. Rooks
-The Politics of Black Women’s Hair-Althea Prince
Ignorance is not bliss & those who take the position that “it’s just hair” aren’t doing themselves any favors…I truly WISH it was ‘just hair’ but it’s not. That’s like saying: “it was just slavery”. How ignorant does THAT sound? It’s always deeper…
Amen 3 times!
I am so happy to see that we are not falling for the okie doke. The vast majority of us get it. There are those who are being willfully obtuse, and I just don’t have the energy to explain why letting white people co-opt your safe space is a horrendous idea.
Cheers to the enlightened!
I agree with you Christina. Having a place for us is NOT racist, just like going to your Black hair stylist is NOT racist
http://www.themanecaptain.blogspot.ca
Yeah, but your black hairstylist probably won’t turn away any white (or non black) women. My stylist didn’t and I have yet to see it done.
Hey Susie, a white stylist DID turn me away so what’s your point? Gotcha you have none as usual your yt privilege does not allow you to view issues from others’ perspectives. This white stylist point blank told me that “they” must specifically go to a salon that caters to Black women in order to learn how to fix our hair…most do not because we’re not a clientele that they’re interested in.
I once went to a white hairstylist because she called herself a “curly hair specialist” I didn’t realize that she knew nothing about black hair until I sat down in the chair. She, without my knowledge, thinned out my hair because it was “unruly and unmanageable” she also attempted to use a fine tooth comb and a wire brush on my type 4 hair. She then gave up half way through and flat ironed my whole head.
It’s NOT just hair.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/nivea-ad_afro-2.jpg[/img]
FYI: There was one made with a white guy holding a severed head with a bushy beard and ugly wild hair and another shitty slogan. It was just poor marketing and advertising.
Also, this is from like 3 years ago.
The fact this was as recent as 3 years ago is problematic. And idk if you noticed, but when white people do black face (the most racist caricature of Black People humanly possible), 9/10 what hair style are they wearing?
Hint…it’s a big ass afro.
Thank you for your contribution. Goodbye.
Thanks for pointing the other ad out, Gigi. I remember both of them. I’m sure the marketing execs were going for “cave man”, but inadvertently found themselves in the cross hairs of massive insecurity.
It seems we’re being infiltrated. You people claim you want nothing to do with black people and that we’re ugly and stupid yet you just cannot leave us alone. You don’t see African women going into mommypotamus and numerous other non black spaces, and stalking them, leaving disparaging comments. I would gladly ask you to get the hell out of here if you don’t like what you read…go speak out against racist people of your own race before pointing fingers at the target of their bigotry.
Amen, Grace! Beautifully said.
I take issue with dividing #teamnatural with terms like “Afro-textured” “kinky” “coily” “curly” “bi-racial” “multi-racial” “Latina” “Hispanic” “mixed” because I feel we have more commonalities than differences. I’m a 4a. My mom is a 3c. One of my grandmas is a 2c and one is a 4c. ALL of us are Black (our parents are Black and our grandparents are Black), ALL of us are #teamnatural, but ALL of us have very different hair and complexions. I don’t believe any of us has more “curl cred” than my 3b cousin who is half Mexican and also #teamnatural or my Dominican neighbor who is 3a and also #teamnatural. I would say all of us have WAY more stake in #teamnatural than the 3b White cashier who convinced me to try TIGIs Moisture Maniac the other day. Girlfriend’s hair was fly. She seemed like a nice person and all, but if she had said, “I’m pro #teamnatural,” I would’ve been like “Whoa! Pump your brakes! No offense, but what does that even MEAN to you?” Cause to equate her experiences to any of my friends and family who are #teamnatural are plain laughable!
Keeping #teamnatural for Black people is nothing but an acknowledgement that for White people it’s “just hair,” which is ok. It’s not bad or good to acknowledge Whites and non-Whites have a totally DIFFERENT relationship with their hair. How is it segregationist to acknowledge we’re different and respect those differences?
There must be some White girls out there in the world who used relaxers, but I’ve never seen any boxes of relaxers with White faces on them. White curlies flat iron their hair straight sure but when was the last time you saw an intervention called for the mother of a White curly getting chemical burns as a toddler or young child just so the hair can be straightened? How many White curlies are recommended to relax their infant’s hair by the hospital staff?
I’ve learned a thing or two from White curlies about conditioning my curly hair. I think the exclusivity of #teamnatural isn’t to discount, discredit, or dismiss the White curly’s experience, it’s just an acknowledgment of our fundamental differences when it comes to our hair.
Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Purple, and Orange are all colors. They’re members of the Rainbow Group. Unfortunately Green, Purple, and Orange CANNOT join the Primary Colors Group. Unfortunately, Red, Yellow, and Orange CANNOT join the Cool Colors Group. And Purple, Green, and Blue CANNOT join the Warm Colors Group. People who want to be willfully difficult will split hairs about the cooler Reds, warmer Greens, and other such nonsense as if we don’t all understand how classifications work.
Yes, I had to go Sesame Street on some of y’all.
1)I think that a White curly can commiserate with a non-White curly over neither of them fitting the White ideal of straight hair, but it will NEVER be anything beyond “hair” for the White curly. #teamnatural embodies MORE THAN hair, even for the non-White curlies who don’t realize it. A White curly can talk about hiding her curls in a bun, or relishing the days of a Jew-fro being cool, or suffering breakage from excessive heat damage. But it’s “just hair.” When non-White curlies discuss permanent hair loss from relaxer burns, or losing significant others because their hair is not straight enough, or risking employment/education opportunities because of their natural hair, you can be DAMN sure it’s not “just hair.” So to ignore all of the racial, cultural, and historical stigma non-White people have endured and reduce it to “textured hair” is incredibly naive at best. A White curly can empathize, try to understand, even support #teamnatural but the minute a White curly attempts to “join” #teamnatural is the minute the Natural Movement is totally appropriated. It’s the minute that all of the efforts to counteract the effects of Eurocentric cultural terrorism are undone.
2)I happen to see a parallel in the increase of marketing to “manage,” “tame,” “straighten” etc kinky/curly/textured hair in the natural movement the VERY MINUTE there was a push to expand #teamnatural beyond non-White people. I find that to be highly concerning. The whole point of embracing natural hair was to move beyond the COMPULSION to fit these Eurocentric ideals, but now that White curlies want to be included in #teamnatural can it be just a coincidence that “silkier” and “more defined” and “more manageable” and “clumped” curls are becoming the new ideal? I highly doubt #teamnatural came together to escape the yolk of straight hair European ideals only to re-enslave themselves to the curly version of those same European ideals.
3)I think that the broad spectrum of responses in the comments section of this article, and the degree of discussion, PROVES the #teamnatural phenomenon goes beyond “just hair.” I would argue that #teamnatural is largely cultural. In my opinion, the natural movement is open to all non-White people. While non-Whites have not been affected by the African diaspora or colonialism to an equal degree/duration, I would argue that the imperialism of Eurocentric ideals has effected a vast majority of the non-White world. A majority of the natural hair movement, in my opinion, comprises the non-White descendants of the African diaspora and colonialism. This includes people spread allover the Caribbean, South America, Africa, Europe, and of course America (really, everywhere). I think that many of us are MISSING THE BIG PICTURE by nitpicking what % African ancestry a Caribbean individual can claim, to what degree post-colonial Africa parallels post-Emancipation America, whether a dark-skinned bi-racial 3C has more “curl cred” (for lack of a better term) than a light-skinned bi-racial 3C, and other largely irrelevant non-issues.
As a collective, “non-White” people have been displaced, marginalized, and denigrated the world over by Eurocentric ideals. The White ideal of light skin/straight hair has been forced upon every culture in the world it has encountered. No one has escaped it, not even “tan” skinned/curly-haired White people.
But to equate the effects of the extremes non-White people have gone through to fit these Eurocentric ideals (or to attempt to escape persecution) is nowhere near what a White person goes through to fit those same White ideals.
Period. Point Blank. The End.
I wish that as black women, we see that this natural hair movement has the ability to inspire ALL types of women across the world.
I see nothing wrong with that.
Why do black women have to sacrifice the community of us who have similar experiences to serve as inspiration to other people? If NOTHING in mainstream media addresses our specific needs, and we are to stop addressing our specific needs to include all these people, where do we go? You know what would be inspirational? If people spending all this time telling black women to be inclusive directed their ire at mainstream sites/media that willfully and purposely EXCLUDE black women completely.
Over and over again we see that when white mainstream sets its sights on anything black, its to take it over. Dominate. If you can’t see that, that’s on you. But anybody else gotta kiss up to Miss Anne.
http://brownsista.com/curly-nikki-white-women-and-the-need-for-all-black-spaces/
Thank you BGLH (and Christina) for this commentary. I didn’t realize that Nikki’s site was owned outright by the owners of Naturally Curly. I thought it was just a partnership. I’ve had a growing dissatisfaction with the site and some of the content long before the current “incident”. Now I understand why there seems (at least to me) to be such a stark difference between the site of old and the way it is currently. Knowledge is power.
This needs to make it on that movie “Dear White People”. They need to edit this in their story line asap.
If “going natural” is going from wearing your hair in a bun to wearing it down then every woman of every race goes natural about 3+ times a day. Even me, I went natural twice today. Took my hair down, put it up in a puff then took it down again.
Thank you for the info because it will make your hair natral it gives you info
When I think of #TeamNatural, I think of women of African descent who embrace their natural hair texture, period point blank.
As a white girl with kinky hair, I would never try to expropriate the #TeamNatural club. How rude to invite myself to what is clearly someone else’s party! However, I love this site because I have learned a lot about … gasp… haircare! I hope it’s okay to pop by and read and learn and leave without trying to make the natural hair issue about me, because it clearly just isn’t. I think that’s what other white women with good manners should do: sure, read an article. But don’t try to make something about you if it just isn’t.
White WOMAN not white girl…and THANK YOU.
ot my post but it sums up the issues you all seem to be trying so hard to ignore.
Originally Posted by rawsilk View Post
Haven’t read through everything but, y’all know I had to chime in on this one. Yes, it’s good to be inclusive and “we are the world,” kumbiya (sp), etc. And I certainly am NOT a believer in making any assumptions about anyone based solely on race/appearance — I have had many white/non-Black people treat me and my family with love, grace, respect and conversely, had just as many Black people act like complete idiots, on the job, at the store, yada yada. That said, I just wanna know: what the he!! happened to Black Pride? Did “they” (whoever “they” is) guilt it out of us?
Back in the 70s (yeah, I’m a lady of a certain age and I still look good, thank-you), I remember as a little girl all of the products, styles, expressions, hand-shakes, dances, foods, shows, music that were uniquely and unapologetically BLACK. Black was beautiful and we were saying it loud and proud. (James sang the song but Smokey wrote a poem all ’bout it — check it out.) Indeed, some of my earliest memories were of holding my ears and the scent of UltraSheen Cream Satin Press (still love that smell) as we watched Don Cornelius and alllllll those fros bobin’ up and down on Sooooooooul Train every other Saturday AM. My family was one of the first to integrate into our corner of the burbs (to my great dismay) and I cherished and extolled anything Afro-Sheen related and any/all things red-black-and-green with a fist silhouette or a fro or that smelled like incense and the record store.
Even as the only Black girl in my day-camp troop, when I handed my matching lucite brush and comb to the White camp counselor after a day in the pool and waited for her to make my hair pretty as she had done for the little White campers, I didn’t get mad when she threw up her hands in exasperation and said (so all could hear), “I don’t know what to do with this.” It was the “this” that got me. Referring to my beautiful, thick, tightly coiled hair that did not like the chlorine she said “this” with such disgust and disdain — I remember the look on the other girls’ faces as I got up, put my little brush set back in my bag and went home with my hair still looking a mess. (That and the second grade teacher who told me that the White Barbie was “just betterrrr” (you know the tone) than the Black one because of the hair left an indelible impression — not about me and my hair mind you (fortunately home gave me enough pride to combat that) but about others and the way that others view our hair. This ish is highly personally to Black Women y’all — recognize.
We were all too happy to pump our fist and embrace all that was and is uniquely “ours.” Now … this did NOT mean that we didn’t invite others in to share/witness. (Don’t we always?) Quite the contrary. But the difference between then and now is that we didn’t make any apologies for wanting to call it our own. If you ask me, that’s what made it so attractive to everyone else.
I remember the first hints of this Black guilt ‘ish in high school when the group of us Black kids who were college bound enjoyed sitting together in the lunch room. We would go back to our AP classes where we were the “onlies” and the distinguished clubs where we were the “firsts” but at fifth period, we were convening at the Black lunch table and EN-JOY-ING it and each other’s company. Everyone at the table wasn’t necessarily college bound but they were positive and we shared useful, low-stress info like … there was a new “Soul-Scissors” coming to town and the girl at the last booth was the only one who knew how to do a good asymmetrical cut. We also played Uno and talked about Black Colleges that we had visited (without having to explain “why”) — which sororities we wanted to pledge, which frats had the cutest guys, whose homecoming/band was the best, etc. and do you know what? Some of the folks who weren’t college bound, got sort of interested because they felt comfortable and un-judged asking/sharing … at the Black lunch table during 5th period. We would go back to our classes/friends/interests of different backgrounds and know that the next day, we would again convene to, e.g., compare lyrics from the latest rap song hand-scribbled in pencil on a loose-leaf piece of paper. (They didn’t play rap on the radio back then y’all so it was strictly underground and sort of insular.)
At some point right before the end of my junior year, some of the “enlightened” (mentally, not skin color) started passing along “concerns” from the majority students that they didn’t understand why we didn’t want to sit with them and they wondered what they could do to be more “all-inclusive.”
In hindsight, the answer should have probably been “leave us be; we don’t have a problem with you all, we just need a little US time.” If that had been our response on a larger scale, our Black business communities would not have been completely decimated by integration and Blacks wouldn’t be topping the unemployment rates – over and above anybody. And I know that this is a touchy subject, you have to ask, if we had continued to embrace our “us-ness,” would there really be some high schools now a days where you literally never see a Black boy with a Black girlfriend? Love who you want but the phenom has GOT to give you pause.
So I say all this to say, that OU-R hair (and I have enough education/credentials to be able to pronounce “our” with two syllables when I feel like it) is OU-R thing. True, some of it looks like other peoples’ and if, like the lady in Walgreens with an adopted Ethiopian baby, you ask me about Bronner Brothers grease versus Sufur8, I will gladly share that information. But please (please) know that you are stepping on hallowed ground — OU-R hair is our Crowning Glory and I don’t care if it plasters our forehead in the rain because of late-night or cross-town tipping or stands up like steel freakin’ wool in the face of homemade lye, it is OU-R’s!!!!! And after all of the ish that we have endured (yup, I’m talkin’ bout rejection from some of our own) because of it, we have earned the right to include or exclude whomever we want in the discussion.
Look-a-here: we are and have been defining this ish as we have defined culture since the beginning of time. We gave birth to civilization so, please (please), give us our props, a “cold glass of water” (in memory of Sister Maya) and just step back. We have survived because we have places of respite and refuge where we can do “US” — in the church, at the lunch table, and now, on the hair boards. (Wasn’t it enough that we nurtured and actually nursed future slave masters when common sense and a bit of hemlock might have suggested otherwise?) Dang.
Aren’t other cultures proud of their special sauces, chicken dishes, music, beauty regimes? No matter how long they have been here, they always refer to the special thing/ritual from “their country.” True they sometimes share info, but so do we. The difference is that everyone always expects us to give up our “us-ness.” I ain’t doing it. How ’bout that? I don’t care how curly kinky nappy your hair is, if you haven’t shared my cultural experience, I still want the right/ability to converse with those who do — without guilt or apology. And guess what, when you start to water down the “us-ness,” you loose me.
Now, with hand on hip, neck going, finger waging and 40 plus years of building/embracing/enhancing/supporting stuff and watching others step in and claim it as their own I say, “leave it alone.” You are welcomed to be sure; but know that in the context of discussing Black Hair (no matter the curve, kink or lack thereof) you are a guest.
Thank you, well said.
Amen! ????
When natural kinky hair has been in the shade for so long, I’m just happy that it’s finally getting some attention. When we have the same level of privilege that our counterparts who don’t have any afro in them experience I will be more than willing to share my space but until then this space is ours. By ours I mean black, mixed race, hispanic, islanders all of us who are less ‘seen’ in the beauty sphere. Those who don’t possess this have a whole load of other spaces to get involved with. Because they have never had to live under, or up to our standards of beauty, we have always had to make the adjustment to be more Eurocentric in our appeal. We don’t have to do that in the natural hair community. By all means I have no problems with non-naturals showing appreciation or interest. However I cannot see how that means you should be a part of a community that has evolved from something you will never experience.
Does exclusivity make the natural hair community racist? I can’t speak for everyone’s personal feelings but in my opinion it at least makes them petty. Petty little girls with fragile egos. I find it very interesting that Ebony.com took little to no interest in Curly Nikki’s trip to South Africa which was featured in length on her blog and bailed on her charity but she features ONE white woman and suddenly this gets the top feature on Ebony.com. I am honestly annoyed by the phrase “natural hair community.” This “community” has turned into a bunch of insecure women whose self-worth is threatened by a minority of non-black women. I’m going to put what I wrote on CN’s response here: Ladies, if your self-worth is so fragile that you’re threatened by ONE white women being featured on a blog then you need more help than any of these so called “sacred spaces for black women” can give you. Here’s a tip: Grow up.
“…This “community” has turned into a bunch of insecure [people] whose self-worth is threatened by a minority…”
The same could be said for white folks who: hate Obama and swear the only reason he was President was because of Black People, threw a fit about that interracial Cheerios commercial (causing such a fuss that the comments are closed indefinitely on that video), protested a black girl acting as Rue in the Hunger Games, nearly came for Idris Elba’s neck when he got the role in Thor, ascribe to the (false) stereotype that all Black people are freeloading off the government, complain about “affirmative action” (which does not benefit Black people at all, studies prove),and the very interesting (and frequent phenomena of White Flight that occurs when one too many ethnic families (usually between three and five gets it started) come to live in a predominantly white neighborhood.
Ohsnap please refer back to previous post of Adoseofreality. I think you are missing the point like so many others….wow.
Why do so many white women come to spaces for black women and throw tantrums? Don’t you know that we come to places like this to try to get away from your narcissism, self-centeredness and entitlement?
I can’t imagine how much of an emotionally stunted child I would have to be to go to sites dedicated to groups i don’t belong to, whose experiences are different than mine, and demand that they change up their whole philosophy so I can be included. No, dear, it is YOU who needs to grow up. And realize that everything is not all about you. And it never will be.
This is exactly how I felt after reading this cr@p. With all the problems affecting the black community and these people are whining about hair. Pick your battles people, that’s all I got to say.
I am a firm believer that the natural hair movement needs to remain exclusively a part of the black community. I feel that if we as black people allow others to carry our message, it will become watered down and lose it’s value. It will no longer be the natural hair movement, but the love your hair movement, and eventually morph into the love yourself movement. While all of these messages are good, and empowering they are not the original message that empowers us as a black community. African Americans have a unique history regarding hair. The natural hair movement is about healing the black community. It is about treating the wounds and damage that was created from years of oppression, from the inside out. It is about creating a generation of black boys and girls who will grow up recognizing that their hair and skin tone are beautiful, and worthy to be well thought of and sought after. A “we are all beautiful message” can not do this. We must not allow ourselves to lose progress because we are trying to include everyone. Yes, both messages need to be heard, but why should I as a black women feel that I need to carry someone else’s weight on my shoulder. If people who are not black believe in this message, let them carry the weight of it for themselves. In all honesty I believe that it would be easier for them to jump on our bandwagon, and get all of the glory when they in reality did none of the work. The natural hair movement has been going on for years, and this could truly be something that goes down in the history books, but who will it be attributed to? Black men and women have a special connection regarding hair, because the majority of us know what it feels like to not meet the common beauty standards within our society.I am all about loving ourselves as humans, but there is something about the message of loving our black selves that rings in my lungs, and strengthens my heart. We need to let the black community heal, and we can not do that if we are worried and concerned about everyone. If they feel their message is strong enough, let them carry it. The black community already has enough weight on it’s shoulders.
I have to say, my patience is running quite thin with all the Black White-defenders running around, eagerly fighting for the inclusion of Whites in a movement that was created BECAUSE those same Whites and those like them made and continue to make it a point to constantly exclude YOU. You’ll put other Black woman down and call them all sorts of names because they want to preserve something they created for themselves (as if Whites don’t do this all the time) all to protect White women and their “precious” feelings, as if they have or ever would put in even a fraction of that effort to defend you.
#Bitchpuhleez
I think what a lot of these “Modern Day Mammies” and “White-people watch dogs” don’t seem to understand is that Whites have a history of not just emulating and copying the things they admire in other ethnic groups, but pretty much stealing and re-packaging those entities to make it seem like they’re the ones who came up with/invented those things (e.g. Jazz, Rock and Roll. Hip Hop, Soul Food (now dubbed “Southern Cuisine) and the list goes on and on). Blacks have been always been inclusive of Whites and look at where that has gotten us. Eventually they (Whites), without fail, takeover/colonize what others, and in this case, Blacks, start (usually out of a need to represent and celebrate what the Whites have largely shunned and ignored), and then eventually push those who started it out of the picture completely. A lot of us would have no problem sharing if history didn’t prove that being inclusive to Whites on a large scale is a very, very slippery slope to essentially being “kicked out of your own house”.
Girl, you said that! I agree 100%!
AMEN….Preach…copy…and print!
PREACHHH! You are 10000% right on with your comment. And I don’t even HATE white people at all. I just get sick of them invading, and then housing all the good things that other races create and start. I made a comment about PRETENDIANS a few months back. I live in a place where EVERY white person you MEET, claims “Native American” blood. When you ask them, ” What tribe?” and the names of their so called “Native” relatives, they usually say “Cherokee” And yes black people do it too, but white people claim Native blood because they want to stake a claim on American land, I’m sure of it! The reason I know this, is because they want to pretend their own ancestors discovered America and started building it, when in reality, their REAL relatives are the very people who murdered Natives in the first place. Yes black people do claim other people’s blood line , but I believe white people claim Native blood for very different reasons, and when you think about the tragedy and genocide that took place, all you can do is shake your head. It’s like all the sudden, it’s their ish? And you’re like, hey how did that happen? Hell they’ll even say beautiful tanned skin and big lips is theirs if you let them!
White people have this really sick habit of trying to steal land, hair styles, fashion, music (ROCK AND ROLL) and claim ownership of everything that other people sweated , breaking their backs to build. Now it becomes about THEM owning everything people of color start and thrive at, and that’s how white people as a group and culture have managed to survive and make themselves wealthy and privileged above all Americans. So yes, if you think about their history with American soil and how many of them claim the blood of warriors NOW in order to stake a claim on American soil, you have to stop and think, “OH hell nawww they won’t get their greedy blood stained hands on this movement right here!”
Best thing to do is IGNORE white people, until they learn that it’s not ALWAYS about THEM!
Curly Nikki’s response was petty as hell. On twitter she’s talking about “6000 clicks. 20 minutes”. This is what she is about and I’m not here for that. She swerved on the point and purposely so. When has the inclusion of non-Black people in black spaces ever been beneficial to black people? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Like Chescaleigh stated, “seemed like CN was too interested in throwing shade, sipping tea, bloop bloop and Kermit” rather tan addressing the issue”
I just liked your comment because of “anyone?anyone? Bueller? Bueller?” LMAO
If curly nikki’s website was called curly nikki for black women then i would understand. But its for all women with curly hair and focuses predominately on black hair. If there was a feature of a white woman on this website ‘blackgirllonghair’ then I would understand the commotion.
Thank you.
Well If we are looking at the name of a website to know if it is or supposed to be inclusive or not. Let’s not forget that CurlyNikki there is Nikki, and from what we have seen and understood, Nikki is black (means she is a woman of the african diaspora/african american) with curly hair. Her website is by definition a representation of herself so featuring exclusively black women is not something that should be alarming! So these featured women are Nikkis, they look like her and at the same time they are multi facetted and comes in different shape, textures and shades (the right definition of a black woman, wherever in the world). If to her a Nikki can be blonde with blue eyes, so be it. That is her personal choice (questionable though) and motive on her platform but let’s be real the name of her website to me is not the strongest argument when is comes to entitlement and the argument “white women part of the natural hair community on CurlyNikki”. So comparing names is just petty and devising, it does not fix the issue and disagreement.
If your site features predominantly Black Women, does it need to be said who you’re site is for? I mean, really.
By you’re logic, a google search for “natural hair” is more than enough evidence to shut this argument down indefinitely. But here ya’ll are, still caping.
Cassie, when Nikki originally started her site, it was for Black women/women of African decent/women of color. Her mission statement/about us section even explicitly said so. She sold her site (to the white-owned Naturally Curly/Texture Media)and that mission apparently changed. The problem is that her (Black female) core audience was not aware of the change…..until recently.
Did you big chop or transition to your curly hair? Do you even know what those terms mean? I’ll wait………..
Lol “bloop bloop and Kermit.” I’m over crackin up at this comment.
We can’t just say #TeamNatural and not expect there to be people who are not black that can relate. That’s like saying #teambrowneyes and getting upset when a white girl with brown eyes is a part of it. If it doesn’t say #BLACK then it doesn’t matter what you are.
YES YES YES!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN!!
Roo, it’s not literally about the hashtag.
People who are not black do not actually relate, though. They relate to a superficial unnuanced understanding of what “natural hair” is. They were not checking for “natural hair” until they saw that black women were getting some attention from it. They want some of it. They are now trying to change the definition of “natural hair” so that they can jump in and re-center themselves. I have no patience for intellectually dishonest people who pretend that natural hair is the same for black women and non-black women. We all know that’s a lie.
Your example of taking a random body part and saying that non-black people can all relate to having it is silly. What’s the history around brown eyes? What stigma is connected to brown eyes? Apples and oranges.
I absolutely loved Nikki’s response if you haven’t read it definitely check it out- still don’t need white people in the movement though.
If that’s who she wants in her space then fine, but I’m out. White entitlement, privilege and disrespect was all up and through her comments section. But CurlyNikki is white owned so what else was she going to say? She gave up her authority.
Oh my gosh- she wasn’t disagreeing with you guys- by any means-
Nikki’s response was self-serving and didn’t address the concerns of Black women who visit her site; nor did she even touch on what really set it off ~ “Felicity” stating that the site was called CURLY Nikki not BLACK Nikki. She deserved the dragging she got for that ish alone. Chescaleigh also exposed a 2012 tweet by this chick calling Black women reverse racists because we didn’t want people touching our hair; Chescaleigh also reasonably expressed why people were so angry with this girl and she chooses to remain oblivious.
This issue for me has become larger than a yt girl feature, it’s about said yt girl’s response to the controversy she thirsted for. I hope this yt chick stops her ‘poor little yt girl being attacked by angry Black women’ schtick because it’s beyond tired.
I strongly disagree with this article. I think advocating for this type of exclusivity only hurts the natural hair community. The focus should be on hair not race, black women are not the only women with kinky, curly or coily hair. This is a very narrow mindset which in turn puts down people of other races who are trying to accept their natural non-Eurocentric hair or beauty.
“Seeing value in blackness as beautiful is a struggle that no other woman of any other background can identify with.”
I completely disagree with this statement. I am a first generation Hispanic American. Until 2 years ago I had had my hair relaxed or chemically straightened since I was a child, and had no idea what my hair even looked like. Many people don’t realize it but in the Hispanic community this issue exists as well. Hispanics can range from looking white to black, from having straight hair to kinky hair. And beauty is equated with being fair and having straighter hair. The famous “beautiful” Latinas have this look, and ones who are darker with kinkier hair like Zoe Saldana or Rosario Dawson tend to not even be so strongly associated with being Latina but more with being black women. So from a young age us kinkier haired or darker skinned Latinas get shunned by lighter ones or teased, and get told to relax and straighten our hair so we can look more “beautiful”. People often don’t even think or believe I am Hispanic and just assume I am black. I was inspired and motivated to go natural by my African American female friends and by all the great youtube videos I found and by BGLH. In this community I felt a sense of belonging and comfort. So it saddens me to hear that people feel this way. I don’t know if I would have gone natural if the natural hair community tried to be this exclusive, putting others down force, instead of as open and empowering as it is, especially because I still do not find acceptance of my natural hair with my family or many other Hispanics. I actually wish more Latinas like me would join the movement and help others embrace their natural beauty.
It’s wide-known that women can be Hispanic/Latina as well as black. There are plenty of gorgeous Afro-Latina features on here and other sites. The main concern is white women (they seemed to be the most pressed to be “in”.
@Finn that is an assumption, she does not state that she is focused on white women, white women are just what everyone else’s comments are about. And she specifically talks about the inclusion of just black women.
At first I thought you were two people, I’m not entirely sure why.
I wasn’t sure if you were focusing on the exclusively on the comments or the article or taking a bit from both, but I see what you’re saying. It’s is assuming, my bad. 🙂 A lot of people in the comments are focusing on white women because of a feature on another blog (that’s the one that sparked all the fuss).
The author neither excluded you as an Afro-Latina nor the other young lady who is biracial from the Natural Hair movement, because it’s a movement for women of the African Diaspora. Her mention of the African Diaspora would be inclusive of Hispanic/Latino women and girls and anyone else of African descent. Unfortunately, sometimes people exclude themselves from the label of “Black” b/c their respective culture/ethnicity has negative feelings about being “Black” and therefore they don’t identify with the term. Instead of seeing “Black” as just term used to describe people of African descent, regardless of their admixtures (no one ever said that one had to be 100% African in order to be “Black” especially since very few “Black” people in the “New World”/The Americas and Caribbean are 100% African), make the label something that it’s not and choose not to identify with it.
Great point. So many ppl have missed that.
This whole thread makes me think….wow white folks did a number on black people! We’re arguing about who’s black and who’s not? Silly trivial nonsense? We are so mentally f’d up as a group. THe one drop rule that white people brain washed us with started this whole mess so I blame white people. I don’t even know what to call us anymore? Afro-Arab, Afro-Caribbean Afro-Latino, African American? All these assumptions made by people who don’t know what they are talking about. Someone said that Afro-Latino and other Afro “mixed” groups outside of African Americans see it as a negative to be called black? I mean, wow what have we become? Have we ourselves become our own worst enemy?
it’s not an assumption just click on the image that responds to this article by white women. its so annoying that they never like our hair but now want to be a part of the movement. 1st of all white women with curly hair is NOT the same as black hair. have you seen our hair. and most biracial girls who have 4b/c hair actually embrace their black culture with no problem. at the end of the day it’s about confidence. if you are biracial and look white but w/4a,b,c hair it’s up to you to gain some confidence for yourself and again embrace your black side if you want to. you don’t need validation from niether side bc you are part of both. as for latinas half of yall don’t embrace yall black side to begin with. most of latinas from costa rica, domincan republic, puerto rico, peru, columbia, spain, cuba are a product of african slavery and then later the higher ups brought in the europeans to mix it up. therefore some of yall have our hair & complexion and some don’t but their kids do. Just bc you speak spanish doesnt mean you dont have african blood, it’s a language not a race. its the reason a lot of yall have our hair or complexion. its like people don’t know their background.
@La Toya Wow I am extremely amused with your ignorance. Do not speak about a topic that you clearly know nothing about. Educate yourself first.
I understand where you are coming from. But if we as a black community allow ourselves to become so open regarding the natural hair movement we risk losing our message. I am glad you were able to find a sense of refuge and acceptance within the natural hair movement.I am sure others who are not of African American descent will be able to as well, but this can not be our primary focus. Imagine if in the 1950’s and 60’s the civil rights movement became inclusive of all other movements such as gay rights. It is not that these movements and their messages were not important, but if they were all bunched together they would have most likely been ineffective. The “everyone love your hair movement is great”, and I truly understand that black people are not the only ones who have faced different forms of oppression regarding their hair texture. But to mix two messages would mean loosing and causing the main message to become distant and far fetched, and in all honesty I do not think it is worth the cost. People who are of different races can rally together and carry their own message, and I’m sure the black natural hair community would be rallying them on. But we can not lose our focus, we need to keep moving forward.
I agree with you 100%. For some reason, a lot of people on here think that only persons of African descent or Black Americans have curly/kinky hair & are the ONLY ones that are overcoming self-hate & embracing their natural beauty & therefore, should be the ONLY ones allowed into the natural hair community. People around the world, not just those of African descent, have curly/kinky hair & in many cultures, straight hair is considered more beautiful & acceptable. Your comment can get thumbs down for days, but I give you a thumbs up.
Please enlighten us. Who are these women who have suffered and been deemed ugly and unworthy of ANY positive attention about ANYTHING. Because I only thought Black women wore that crown. Please tell us who else is in our boat.
Well yippie for you! you get the award for most useless comment of the week!
You’re saying that other races of people have kinky curly hair? Or do you mean other nationalities. YES agreed other NATIONALITIES outside of North American blacks have kinky hair, but that is because THOSE people also have African blood in them!!!!
You couldn’t be talking about white people? Because white people don’t have hair like black people, even if it is curly. Yet also didn’t name any one culture outside of the African diaspora that actually has kinky fro like hair? The movement is for black women from all nationalities and cultures, NOT black men, NOT Arabs, NOT Swedes, NOT Jews! Furthermore, you can’t stop people from coming into the natural hair community online anyway, so there is no way to block, or stop non-black people from getting up on here and making comments. The best thing we can do as black women is ignore the idiotic comments from people who claim they have been made fun of because of their “curly” hair too. We will ignore because white curly hair is really NOT the same as a black person’s!!!
We don’t want to interact with white people or other races about their hair, because we KNOW that they don’t have REAL problems to over come!
IF a person has kinky hair and they are Spanish speaking, then THIS is the place for them. No one is excluding people with African blood who happen to have African textured hair BECAUSE OF THAT AFRICAN blood. NO we are ignoring the chicks who come on here with curly type hair, who claim they were ostracized as wee little lads growing up!! No one cares about your curly hair, and I’m sorry it’s NOT the same as having “black people hair”
I’m really on the fence about this topic. I’m biracial (French and Ghanaian) and sometimes I’ve felt like I don’t fit into the “natural hair community.” I have mid back length 3b/3c hair with 4a around my temples and crown and I have received comments like my hair is only this long because I’m not “really black,” I’m “trying to be blacker than I am” or I just have “good hair” so I don’t count. But by the same token, when I look in magazines or most websites, the hair advice has nothing I can use because it’s for straight or wavy hair. I didn’t say “white hair” because in reality Asians, Hispanics and many other ethnic groups have that type of hair and they can also hair curly/ kinky hair.
Back when I was in school, I’ve seen white people with type 4 hair being made fun of by other white people. But if one of those people embraces their natural hair and identifies with the natural hair movement wouldn’t fit in their either. That kind of makes me sad because I don’t see a reason why people with the same hair types and similar experiences can’t share this.
I’m only 20 so I haven’t really “seen the world” experienced everything but I think that anyone with kinky/curly hair should be able to be a part of the natural community. It makes me angry that so many publications are made in a way that reflects the idea that straight hair is the only one that is important or beautiful and I’m not sure how I would feel if the natural community started to show that black hair is the only type that’s welcome. When I stopped relaxing my hair, I saw the natural community as a place where I could fit in after years of being called names like “poodle,” “half black sheep” and “Brillo” and I think that there are other people who aren’t black (or are only half black) that feel the same way. I kind of wish that hair could just be hair without race being involved but I know we live in a world where race can be an issue in almost anything so I do understand where those who say that white people being a part of the natural community could be negative or result in them “taking over” are coming from.
I fond a lot of the comments on this too be really interesting and I think it’s important to try and see it through other’s eyes as well as our own.
@Jorden Thanks for sharing your perspective and so respectfully so. I think this topic can be understandably emotional for people and sometimes through the emotions (and limitations of writing) it’s hard to have positive discourse.
Several people have touched on their afro/black heritage whether bi-racially or multi racially. I feel as things get more and more global and more interracial marriages happen and people are born with varied backgrounds this is going to become a more and more important conversation.
I have met few White people who have afro texture hair that don’t have some sort of afro/black heritage whether they embrace it or not. I personally think it is important for these people to embrace their Blackness for lack of a better word. In America, Black is more than skin deep and many people who honor and respect their heritage and chose to fight oppression consider themselves Black regardless how “white” their skin is, how “white” their features look or how straight their hair is. They can still be respectful and acknowledge that they way they look affords them a privilege that other darker skinned Blacks do not get but they don’t need to deny they are a part of the Black community.
I think there is place for the people you speak of but they should also take the opportunity to learn about the Black struggle. Hair is only one part of that. @BGLH has already said White women are welcome to observe and listen. I think this is a great space for people to learn about Black people and a slice of life we go through and those who would consider themselves white (because of immediate family or lifestyle) with afro texture hair may find that they have a place at the table of being Black more than they thought.
“I have met few White people who have afro texture hair that don’t have some sort of afro/black heritage whether they embrace it or not. I personally think it is important for these people to embrace their Blackness for lack of a better word.”
You sound like your feeling guilty for choosing self-erasure. Your children will more than likely phenotypically look white, since you are a light skin woman and your husband is white. Which means that more than likely in our white supremist society they will chose to be white and marry white. Just accept it. White people embracing their blackness? This sounds….
@JustStop This sounds…like your just trying to troll me and it speaks for itself on it’s wrongness. Guess some of my previous comments got to you and made you angry *shrugs*. I must be doing something right ;P
I’m turning 20 soon as well, so I can understand the concern of “not having seen the world yet.”
But the Natural hair movement does mean some different for Black women and men. When it began, it was part of a larger initiative by Black people to instill pride, prosperity, and knowledge in our community. The focus of the movement has always been on Black People. It was exclusive by default, because back then NOBODY wanted to be in our shoes.It died down after the FBI destroyed a lot of the work they put into the movement, and we now focused on integrating. Integration has been positive, but we still don’t enjoy the acceptance white people do. In fact, art forms and cultural things created by Black people to celebrate their unique history(hip-hop culture, jazz, rock and roll are a few) are often ‘integrated’, with the end result of them being pushed out and forgotten by non-black people. We are not allowed to enjoy our culture without integrating, although we aren’t accepted in anyone else’s either.
The movement is gaining traction again. While we know non-black or biracial people can have curly/coily hair, the history and context is still tied to Black people are treated in America. For example: the Irish were arguably treated just as badly as Black people when they first arrived. The reason for this? Their curly and wild hair looked like ours. It was a common idea that the Irish were descendants of African people. That changed, of course, but it proves that the stigma for curly hair is the direct result of racism. Curly or kinky hair is an arbitrary feature that appears in non-black people in sprinkles, but it is found in ALL black people. In combination with the fact that Black skin carries a stigma of it’s own, the way non-black and black/biracial people experience accepting their hair is comparing apples and oranges.
I wish it was just hair as well, but it isn’t. And non-black people already have their own spaces and communities to turn to, with white people having the broadest options. We have very few spaces that push accepting ourselves compared, and I think this is us taking a stand for ourselves.
And I’m 1000% here for it.
I am just speechless with what you wrote bc you hit the right points. You are so right on with this. People need to read every word and comprehend what you wrote bc its the truth.
I agree with some things you said, except that “Curly or kinky hair is an arbitrary feature that appears in non-black people in sprinkles”. Over 60% of the world’s population has some form of wavy, curly, kinky, coily hair. It’s just that straight hair is the standard of beauty, so most people around the world straighten their hair via blow dryers, flat irons or chemicals.
The point of her post remains the same, whether you agree or not.
60% of the worlds population has curly hair. Curly hair in all textures, grows out the head of every single person of Black/African descent. Asians are the largest demographic in the world, but that is extremely tricky because ‘Asian’ accounts of Melanisian, Oceanic, Polynesian (many of those little tribal islands). There is also the fact we should consider the population of Afro-Latino has not been accounted for (many world population graphs just list them as Hispanic/Latino, which is a doozy to break down in itself), as well as the aboriginals (black tribals) in Australia. As well as the biracial children with a Black or African parent.
And then there is white people.
I think @Girl….is agreeing with me….thank you.
So are you arguing about curly hair in white people or in Asian people?
I’m confused.
I’m sorry for all the double posting. I saw my last comment and I’m doing about three things at once at the moment. The comment I was responding to said that 60% of the worlds population had curly hair (the gene for straight hair is recessive, so that makes sense).
When I mention Asian ethnicities like the Polynesian and smaller tribes in the Eastern Hemisphere, I mention them to say that they look pretty similar to people of African descent. Curly, nappy hair, dark skin, etc.
Asian and people of African descent (including biracials with a black or african parent as well as Afro-Latin@ [who usually are just grouped in the general Latin@ category, which is a complicated one to fully break down]) make up the worlds majority, with Asia having the most people (India & China are to thank for that).
I was saying that those of African descent account for a good portion of that 60% of curlies. Asians of certain ethnicities (the tribes in the Polynesian and Melanesian). When we see these tribal groups – which include the Aboriginals in Australia and so on – it also calls into question how far our roots spread. It’s very interesting because most of you guys have only considered the Western landmarks when there is evidence that our blood runs even further to the East. Then of course there are white people who have curly hair. But my point was that they only make up a small part of that 60%, which means that her statement that curly/kinky hair is not as prevalent in non-black/African women is actually indeed true.
So I’m agreeing with myself (thank you me! lol), but what I meant to say is I’m agreeing with the young lady Finn. But I’m also agreeing with @cclinton123. I would just like to provide slightly different perspective to the topic, since I did see there was a surprising lack of mention about any of the tribal groups in the East.
I’m glad to see such an aware, well-spoke group of women. A lot of these comments go hard on naysayers – I say it’s needed. There are many of us do not truly know our history. We have heard bits and pieces in school or on the Black History Month Specials, but a lot of the information given by these women – whether they are from Alabama, Antigua, or Cameroon – is a sign that we are really making strides to truly educate and come together. I’m no sap, but it does make me get a little teary eyed to know Black Girl Long Hair houses such a lovely bunch of intelligent, fierce sistas. Lol this debate is pretty much over, so I’ll catch you guys in the comments section of the next Natural Hair Icon.
But she better not be White.
as a half black woman you are a person of color… you do not need permission to be team natural… your struggle is my struggle. Our hair is viewed more or less the same… culturally are experiences are about the same in terms of hair and skin color whether you are dark skinned or light skinned. A white woman does not have that
experience of being told “you have good hair” or “child you need a relaxer” they aren’t separated by lightness of skin to the degree that people of color are. I recognize however that many black woman are not welcoming to people with light complexion or loosely curled hair, because of being forced to except that look as the epitome of beauty for all black women. Its wrong for us to separate our selves this way, you are no less a person of color and clearly have as much claim to being called natural as any other black woman, I can’t say the same is true for a white woman
Lemme just say, seeing my black women standing strong together and taking charge and owning the Natural Hair community and defending their right to their space the made, it just….
…hits me in them feels.
Shows what we can do when we stick together!!
Let this continue in all aspects of Black Communities I hope in the future!!
You guys are awesome.
My Black people are awesome <33
Faith restored <3
I think this lady is not understand what we have a lot of shit through all the years what we struggle with our hair because we are not the same as her hair that is easy such as they wash then dry blowing and go. black hair is never easy than they thought. Just saying.
wrong page..damn my cmp is stupid. ingore my comment lol.
The mere fact that white women are so strongly complaining to be apart of the natural hair community really is damn creepy as hell.
I mean everything black people do, white people want to slither their way in without asking and then take over.
Its white people who are always really racist towards black people the most, its white people who has deemed the black women the lowest and most undesirable women all over this planet.
The fact there do all this to us but still demand us to accept them really is utterly disturbing and quite scary, its like they are obsessed with Black people and everything we do, they are always peeping in our communities and interests and demand we let them in like wth!?
Damn. This obsession is really becoming so damn scary it disturbs me.
“The mere fact that white women are so strongly complaining to be apart of the natural hair community really is damn creepy as hell.”
It’s funny – a while ago on Instagram some lady (I’m assuming White or of some other non-Black race) had to nerve to complain that she was “tired of seeing THIS kind of hair being called natural.” …because all hair is natural *side eye* The picture was of some man with a fro and the poster was just showing some #naturallove (as she occasionally does). Anyway, it annoyed the heck out me…like seriously, why are you so mad? This is our thing, you don’t have to understand or identify… and sure as heck can’t take it away. #stayinyourlane.
#TEAMNATURAL can describe all races but let’s get real, it’s a BLACK WOMAN’s club. Black men are also allowed. But it’s mainly for Black women. #TeamNatural was designed to show our support and pride for wearing our hair in its Natural state and defying the individuals who wanted us to break down our natural curl pattern and break us down as a people…as our gender. #TeamNatural basically says “Screw you! My hair is Nappy, My skin is Dark and I’m here to stay!”. We allow mixed females but I really consider it a “clique” for Black women who don’t have close relatives who aren’t Black/African.
I, like so many other Black women, have my story and it was scary to finally say, “Enough! I want to wear my hair this way and if people won’t hire me because of it, that’s their problem!” Every day is a battle trying to fit into American society as a Black woman…professionally and personally. #TeamNatural is one thing that we have to say, “Hey, this is me and how God created me and I won’t apologize.” People say Black people are “racist” when they want to take our stance/power away when we exhibit pride for our race (e.g. Black pride). Well, call me RACIST. I’ll be racist, sexist and whatever else you want to call me if that means that I get to keep something for Black Women. #TEAMNATURAL #ALLDAY! 😀
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/13062-fab_fro.jpg[/img]
I think it is GREAT that African American women have a natural hair movement. I do not feel bad that I am not a part of it and I don’t think anyone else should force themselves into something that does not apply to them. I say go for it ! I think the women who do not have Afro hair like me should congratulate you all and leave you to it!
You dear person, is exactly how non-black people should be.
Thank you <3
This has got to be one of the most profoundly brilliantly written editorials I have ever read!! As a professor of sociology, I scream hallelujah at your encapsulation of the need for black women to protect the space that allows us to embrace the very esthetic that has been maligned and ridiculed for centuries! Your statement that everything black has “been gentrified, reappropriated, repackaged, and resold as popular culture” made me shout out loud. I cringe every time I hear the term “southern cuisine” used in reference to soul food. Thank you for elucidating team natural’ s necessity!
You all are thinking like children. If a woman has natural hair that is hair that is not processed she is team natural I thought the movement was about embracing our natural self staying away from chemicals becuase many white women especially those with curly hair wear perms. I didn’t know the movement was about skin and becuase I am black and you are not you can’t be team natural. I’m starting to dislike this site some of you talk to much.
White women who perm their hair to give it more volume so it isn’t limp and it’s not a common practice since the 80’s. furthermore there isn’t any discrimination attached to Caucasian hair and it’s not necessarily the fact that she’s white it’s the fact she tried to relate to a movement when her biggest struggle was hiding her hair in a bun or braid. there was no chemical process she had to ditch no heat damage to contend with and no one ever told her that her hair wasn’t regulation or professional because of it’s texture. Teamnatural is more than just loving yourself as born it’s about shedding an ideology that your hair and image is less beautiful or unworthy. It isn’t childish we’re just protective since we haven’t had a lot of things that belong solely to us…
So, if we include white/non-black women…how come they don’t ever include us? And how do you propose we address the issue of never being included in anything outside of spaces the spaces we create ourselves?
Just a question.
“how come they don’t ever include us” because they don’t want us…they will throw a few crumbs here and there, to pacify us…but in today’s world they don’t want us…look at integration, years after Brown vs. Board of Education…still plenty of school districts across America is just…damn
Yes this is about hair, but it runs deeper…it always does for the black Diaspora
THANK YOU!
Folks are running around here “Why are ya’ll be so mean?” “They can have curly hair too, why do Black women get to decide?!”
And when faced with the question of what the hell else we’re supposed to do, all of a sudden those same folks suddenly get real quiet.
Some of us may “talk too much”, but YOU clearly don’t THINK nearly enough. If you dislike this site, you’re more than welcome to take your behind and your patronizing attitude elsewhere–maybe to a site for curly-haired white women who wear perms (I’m assuming you actually meant RELAXERS). I’m just positive they’re dying to include and feature you in their spaces (^_^). #ByeFelicia
Embracing our natural hair as a Black woman or or mixed woman is great. lets face it, other ethnic groups like white, asian or indian don’t really make changes to the hair texture. I don’t think there’s anything racist or we’re excluding anyone as Black women by embracing the #teamnatural cause
I agree with your points but i just want to point out that people of other races do make changes to their hair although not as much as black people. I’m an African with type 4 hair who lives in Asia and wearing my natural hair was a huge challenge when i newly came here simply because of the criticism i got due to the fact that a lot of people hated curly hair. Those with curly hair( from other races ) either straightened their hair or wore it in one tight braid or bun. I didn’t care, i rocked my natural curls, afro and all anyways! I am happy to say that i have inspired a lot of people to embrace curly hair and i see more Asians wearing their curls out and less hiding their curls in a braid or bun. It touched my heart when an Asian girl walked up to me and told me that i have really pretty hair. The girl had curly hair that was brushed out and put in a ponytail, kinda like a puff. I want the straight hair oppression system to die! die! die! It has oppressed people for too long!
I think the “natural hair community” that consists of the sharing of knowledge, journeys, and encouragement, is at its core a black movement (headed by women but certainly extended to men). I imagine there might be people of mixed ethnicity who have a problem with this statement. I think Christina identified well why this is about specifically black people. It is because black people need visibility in society. Everyday that we alter our features in order to be accepted by the dominant white society, we become more invisible. So the natural hair community is for black people who can identify with the experience of having to make their features more euro-centric to be accepted. The movement is about shedding the stigma of our ethnic features and reclaiming and celebrating them.
I could easily see other ethnic groups having a similar movement. For example, there is a huge epidemic of Koreans and other east Asians getting the double-eyelid surgery in order to look more white. There is skin bleaching as an epidemic worldwide but especially in places like South Africa, Jamaica, and India. Every ethnicity has some sense of identity to reclaim in this “post-colonial” era.
So as a primarily white woman (great grandparents on moms side black and cherokee) with thick, coarse, curly hair who started transitioning to my natural hair 2 years ago, I am not allowed to identify with the natural movement? I grew up constantly relaxing and flat ironing my hair to fit in with my peers and family. I was ridiculed as a child for my hair type. I was never taught how to style my hair because no one knew how, they cut it like straight hair and tried styling it like straight hair, but it was always a battle. It’s been two years and my hair is healthier than it’s ever been, and I’m ecstatic! I’m not here to take anything away from any black woman. But just because my skin is white does not mean that I did not face ridicule for my hair type and I am finally proud of my curls, I love and embrace my natural texture!
Meeks, thanks for coming here and commenting. Anyone can feel ridicule for their hair. That’s fact. Anyone, from any cultural background, can face ridicule for their curls. And if you’ve read the site before, I hope that you’ve found helpful information or stories that you can relate to. But this website was built with the experiences of black women in mind — it’s in the title. Our priority is to celebrate and highlight black natural beauty. But that doesn’t mean that we feel that white curlies don’t have a story to tell or an experience to share. I’ve mentioned before that we’ve literally never gotten a request from a white curly to be featured. I think because there was a tacit understanding of what this site was designed for.
@Meeks My question is why you decided to identify yourself as White? You’ve stated that you’ve had experiences like a Black woman. I too have light skin and people have not perceived me as Black, I could have “taken advantage” of my White privilege and not acknowledge being Black.
I’m not in the business of telling people what to do but I do like to challenge people to think about the decisions they have made and why. Race is a construct that has been used to divide and oppress. As more and more people are born being multiracial it is on them to decide if they are going to learn, understand the struggle and fight against oppression and not feed into White privilege.
There’s been some back and forth on what makes someone Black and apparently many people think “If you look Black, you are Black. If you don’t you aren’t”. It goes far deeper than that especially in America. There are plenty of people of all races that have White privilege. People that have white privilege often lack self awareness, introspection and the ability to identify oppression and fight against it. You can look to some Jewish people as examples of people who could be traditionally described as “White” but have not had access to certain types of White privilege.
I have “obvious” “Black features” one being my hair so it’s easy for other Black people to accept me as Black. When I relaxed it and hung with mostly White people…not as much. There’s definitely some in fighting going on and Black women need to squash that. It’s the same reason why I put Black women on blast when they judge way too harshly women who relax. We know why they do it but we don’t have to shame them for it or make them feel bad. What we all should do it positively reinforce each other to be proud Black women.
I don’t know your life or how you have led it but you I just wanted to let you know that regardless of how you look (because Black comes in all shades and looks) you can proudly claim your Blackness and fight against oppression. It’s not easy and it’s far nicer to lead a privileged life but personally I just feel called in my soul to honor those who fought so hard for my rights and I want to fight for the rights of oppressed people.
I’m sorry, Puff, but I don’t see how you self-identifying as black makes you any less privileged than Meeks. As you mentioned, white privilege cuts across racial boundaries. Arguably, someone such as yourself who is fair enough to pass for white, overwhelmingly retains her white skin privilege in spite of how she aligns herself. I don’t think one can shed their color privilege in a world as racialized as ours; the best one can do is acknowledge it and try not to reinforce it. Self-identification only goes so far in a world in which 3rd parties feel qualified to classify us as they see fit.
@anon I myself am not “passing” because of my hair and my features but when my hair was straight at times I would be confused for other ethnicities…not ever white but yes I admit I had access to White privileges. And I think some people may not realize this but fair/light skinned people don’t get an all access pass to White privilege. There’s many times that White people try to “put you in your place”. Even for those that can “pass” if they let it be known they are Black or people see their family they will pull that same sort of racism on them. But truly, I’m not trying to say who has it hardest; we all have our difficult experiences. We all are a part of the Black experience in it’s whole and have a role to contribute in fighting the oppression.
Not sure if you’ve seen any of my other comments but I’ve tried to communicate that it’s very important for all people to check their privilege so they can effectively identify oppression and fight against it. It’s a constant struggle because privilege breeds laziness and also clouds perspective.
I’m certainly not trying to imply that someone can shed their color privilege in fact if anything I’m saying that they should use it to fight against oppression. It is well documented that light skin people are granted access to a lot of privileges (this is a sad reality that I don’t condone but it is what it is). One also gets access to White privileged people becoming overly “comfortable” around them to reveal many of their racist ideology that they honestly think is okay. That’s the time to correct and converse with them about their privilege and put things in perspective. I’ve read many comments about how it is not our job to educate White people and I agree to a certain point. I think any of us who have White friends, family and/or coworkers who could greatly benefit from us being forthright about racism in and our experiences. The sad truth is, is that White people shut down quickly when racism enters the conversation. They have all sorts of pre programmed defenses but I think to someone they know and trust will make it so those defenses won’t come up as quickly. Also, White allies in civil rights have always played an important role in progressing things forward. How do you think they became allies? Probably by being educated by a patient Black person.
I read Curly Nikki’s perspective on it and though I didn’t agree with exactly how she said and everything she said, I do think there was a point about the goal of making it more comfortable for all natural hair people and one way to do that is for White people to understand the struggle and identify with it (that’s how I read it). Let’s be honest here, White privilege makes it very hard for them to understand or empathize unless it has some sort of relevance for them. That’s why I’ve always felt many non whites can understand and stick up for oppression even if it is not their group (not all the time mind you) because of their experiences in their group. White people don’t have that.
Eventually the goal is for us to NOT have to feel like we need a community or our own space because everywhere will be our space. Hair will become hair and these sites won’t have to focus on how rejected we are by family , friends and at work. I think it was really great with BGLH said White women should observe and listen because they could do a lot of good by taking this information back to their family, friends and work.
I hope this puts some clarity on what I’ve been trying to say.
“Racists will always call you a racist when you identify their racism. To love yourself now – is a form of racism. We are the only people who are criticized for loving ourselves. and white people think when you love yourself you hate them. No, when I love myself they become irrelevant to me.”
? John Henrik Clarke
And there is it. Black folks loving ourselves causes whiteness to no longer be centered, and that’s the problem white folks have with that.
Yes!
BOOM! 😀
Be careful y’all. Many of these sites are white owned by Textured Media Inc. These sites CurlyNikki, CurlMart, NaturallyCurly, curl Stylist and texture trends. These sites feature black women but do not serve our interest catering to everyone else and especially being white owned. Do not take these sites seriously. We should be on gaurd and always find out who runs the site providing our service. Just because it has a black face on it doesn’t mean its black.
Hair is the beautifying element of any women and thus adorning them with beauty and grooming is one of the best part that a women could do of her hair.
Okay, I’ve heard what’s been said and i see what’s going on. Simply put, black natural women are standing up for our rights. I know the struggle of being an African natural, I’ve gotten laughed at and ridiculed for wearing my type 4 hair but i wore it anyway! And guess who’s copying me now… people who ridiculed me( including blacks ), people of other races( Some of whom have ridiculed me ), people of other races who have been afraid to wear their naturally curly hair due to fear of frizz and rejection and people who have feared and/or hated curly hair in general. I laugh at how they laughed at me and now they are copying and imitating the very thing which they ridiculed, it shows that they are just cowardly hypocrites. I feel honored that i have inspired a lot of people( including people of other races ) to embrace curly and naturally curly hair and i don’t feel bad when people of other races are featured on natural hair sites. However, i do feel that it’s unfair for us to allow other races on our sites and then they block us from their sites as if it’s okay to do that! It’s as if they see us as inferior and see themselves as superior IN THIS DAY AND AGE?! IMAGINE!?! So my point is that they should treat us equally and allow us to be featured on their sites, magazines, etc too. If not, block them out from our sites, let them see how it feels! Since they see it as okay to block us out, it’s only fair to block them out too.
Didn’t baby a blog feature a white woman?
personally, I don’t see a problem with “spreading the love”
Me neither. So how do you suggest we get mainstream media to start spreading the love to us? Since that’s the reason blogs like these were even created (ya know, a lack of love from mainstream media)?
A lot of these comments have rendered me completely and utterly speechless. We can’t even get along with each other within this #teamnatural community. Just because some do not agree with this article or your particular opinion does not mean they don’t get it. There is no need for the hostility I see in many of these comments. There is no need to come down on those who have a different opinion. That is where my problem with discussions like these. By all means be proud of #teamnatural but don’t condemn those that choose to feel differently. This along with various other things I’ve seen makes me personally steer clear of #teamnatural and do my own thing. 🙁
Agreed! Chescaleigh’s comments were hostile as well. Fine, disagree with one another, but why the furious vitriol? It’s as if communication and disagreement is a sport of violence. I stopped perming way before I visited these sites and read commentary, so I know I need to steer clear now again.
It was probably because, when the feature first started getting all that flack, everybody was saying (in so many words) “she said she understands the politics of race, so why is she featured on this site when your audience/features are mostly black?”
There was a bunch of “you guys excluding her from the movement is the equivalent of slavery!” (yes, there were MANY comments who said that exclusion=slavery/Jim Crow because….idk. There was a woman who taught in urban areas that felt the same way too.)
Then the girl in the feature revealed her actual intention was to troll Black women and stir up trouble. She was able to milk the outrage for sympathy follows and hits to her social media accounts. for a few days before a couple screenshots of her saying purposefully antagonizing things to “haters” (which she deleted just as quickly as she put up, of course).
It was basically a situation of everybody jumping on Black women for saying something in the water wasn’t clean, us being dragged for it, then the proof popping up we were correct. Which led to this much bigger discussion.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2w4zkg5-1.png[/img]
I dont think its wrong for black women you kiny haired gals to have online communities dedicated to the experiences of the natural hair journey. Most commercials movies products etc are aimed to every other race except black girls. We have been called fat ugly ghetto and when we get a community of women who all go through the same thing we are wrong? The black community has been oppressed by the world for hundreds of years I think its safe to say we have the right to have a damn community of women who are all going through the same journey.
Hey Everyone! I am a 14 year old newly natural and I have been observing this convo until now. Frankly, I think it is VERY important for Black woman to have their own movement and websites to support and uplift each other.
When I first got interested in natural hair last summer, the only thing that helped navigate me through the loads of online hair info was the phrase “BLACK hair.” This helped me find videos of black women with long hair (something I had never seen in my entire life before last year). Afterwards, one of these BLACK youtubers led me to BLACKgirllonghair.com. Curlynikki at this time was irrelevant.
This site is where I learned most of everything I now know about my hair (including porosity/a.k.a my biggest struggle). During this entire year of transitioning to natural, I never once saw a white woman featured on this site. I just realized how much this benefited me.
My entire 14 years of life I just accepted I wasn’t pretty. I only realized this in middle school when I fell into deep depression over not looking like the other girls at school. I was the only black girl (out of 3) to wear braids.
When I first got into this site, I quickly became obsessed with Type-3 hair. If I was going natural, I thought, I would want hair that was as close to straight as possible. This was mainly due to my upbringing that afro hair was unacceptable (my parents are directly from Nigeria).
I finally big chopped and I found out I had 4a hair. Instead of being sad that I didn’t have those loose, big curls I had wanted at the beginning of my journey, I was shocked. It was the first time I had seen my real hair in all my life. And it was amazing.
So this is why I don’t believe white women should be featured on these sites. I pride myself in accepting many people (I have a wide variety of friends). But when I was looking for a place to connect with people whose families thought the hair that grew out of their head’s was ugly, seeing white women on such a site would have kept me from belonging and taking the site seriously.
I’ve been excluded my whole life, and I am glad to finally have a place for black women who understand the lack of self-worth someone as young as me used to feel.
Super eloquent for an 14 year old. Keep shining, Queen!
Thank you 🙂
Oh NO! I accidentally down thumbed your comment. I’m sorry. You all are right on. c:
I agree 100%!!!
I loved your comment. As a fellow Nigerian, I could empathize with the whole idea of family members ridiculing me for my hair. I went through similar struggles (having been brought up in predominantly white private schools when I was young). I started this journey a year ago and I’m LOVING it. I’ve gotten a few comments from family members, but the people who matter most (like my mom) have supported me. My hair shrinks to 75% of it’s length AND I’m 4C, but I still love my hair!! 🙂 #teamnatural should be exclusively for Black women. I don’t care how racist it sounds; that’s something I truly believe.I’m tired of our culture being ridiculed, and then having those same people who ridicule us turn around and take what was unique to us. Sick and tired of it.
I’m Nigerian too and I’ve been natural for 2 years and I love it, wish I went natural sooner! I’ve just been thumbsing up all the great comments about how natural hair is only for black women, I usually see these comments on tumblr or lsa, so I’m pleasantly surprised its on here too. Others have the mainstream as a space to express their hair issues or whatever why come to ours , so you can dominate? umm no boo boo you can gone with that! Its great seeing so many defend our right to have something exclusively, its about damn time we stop letting everyone join and dominate which usually happens!
I could kiss you. Love my Naija girls. I feel like a proud big sister reading this. Igbo Kwenu!
When I heard this I thought me not wanting white women in the natural hair community was gonna be bashed.
Now I see 95% of people all over the interwebs saying things I agree with.
I was worried that the natural hair community would be taken over by white people and straight hair in a matter of years but It looks like with mostly everyone on the same page I feel a little better that the natural hair community/#teamnatural will be still black only for a long time.
*hugs*
To answer your question: Anyone who is natural can claim #Teamnatural. However, African American is the race that allowed it to become prominent.
Why specifically African ~American~?
Because it was made FOR Black People with AFRO TEXTURED HAIR, BY Black People with AFRO TEXTURED HAIR. It was never and will never be meant for non-black people. Simple as that.
If people (esp white people) cannot grasp that everything isnt for them and they must have it/be in it, then they have the problem, not us.
I think the point May was trying to make is that not all black people are African American.
In that case, anyone who is predominately (or mixed if you will) African Decent. This includes African Americans, Afro-Caribbean, Africans, Afro-Latina, Black people in England and any other person anywhere on the world who if of African Decent and has Afro Textured Hair.
I thought May wanted to include non-black/non-afro textured hair people. My mistake.
African Americans coined the term. But yeah, not all blacks are American.
Only Black women/ Afro-Latinas welcome. Who else can even identify with the Black woman/Black hair experience?
I think that they way this issue affects Black Women is a direct result of how a particular Black Woman has experienced natural hair.
For a woman whose hair is a source of cultural identity, who has experienced the natural hair movement as an overturning of Euro-centric beauty standards, Black shame, and lack of identity, I can see how having someone of another race, specifically Caucasian can be a source of distress, and can feel like a perversion of a cause.
However, this is not my experience:
I didn’t “go natural”. I just stopped relaxing my hair. For me, accepting my natural hair texture wasn’t a part of some inner reflection, or cultural re-identification- at least no more than me taking the plunge with red lipstick or cropped tops. Which makes it very easy for me to not question the presence of White Women within the natural hair community- this is made very clear by the multitude of skin colors and hair types on my Pinterest, Youtube, and Instagram accounts. When I follow these women, it isn’t about my hair as a reflection of my heritage, my people, and our place in the world- it’s about what can I learn from them in terms of styling and caring for my hair.
I believe that I feel this way as a result of my life experiences in conjunction with my own personality: I have never been the sort of person who gives a damn about others opinions about me. So if my “Blackness” of skin or hair or speech or actions was ever considered inappropriate or given side eye, I have not noticed. Either because it hasn’t existed or because I have been too wrapped up in my own issues to pay attention. Not to mention that as a young person in the Arts and Fashion industry, and at a liberal and diverse university (Ram Pride!!!) I can do just about anything with my hair and not have to hear about acceptability or professionalism.
I see a lot of similarities between the natural hair movement and the body acceptance movement. To me, the NHM is about loving you hair as it grows out of your scalp- no matter the texture of the hair or the color of the scalp, just like the BAM is about loving all body shapes and sizes. I believe that a movement about self love and acceptance should be inclusive of all those that can relate to it, so I also understand why some people have problems with #teamnatural White girls- because for some, the movement is also racially charged.
However, the WAY that some people have gone about it is wrong. I will not and can not be okay with Black Women referring to “White Hoes”, “White Bitches”, etc. etc. We are women, not children. Act like it.
Anadion, you wouldn’t relate because you didn’t have to go through psychological reprogramming. This transition was simple for you. The movement isn’t about just hair though. It’s for the very many Black women who had to purposely think differently about beauty. Black women globally were relaxing because the Eurocentric standard of beauty was a universal standard. Many Black women need uplifting and that’s what the movement does. #teamnatural serves as a means to find information for those seeking to return to natural and those in need of a visual example of beautiful Black hair from wavy to kinky. So the NHM is not only about hair. It’s much deeper and that’s what we want white/nonblack women to recognize and respect. It’s not just about hair. Please understand. For you, it is. For many of us who have come to the realization that entire group of women internationally did not know the first thing when it comes to caring for the hair that grows out their scalp, were very disturbed. How can a group of women, globally not know how to care for the hair the naturally grows out of their scalp? There’s a common denominator and that’s the standard of beauty was anti-Black. We’re coming back to making sure we KNOW we are beautiful.
I do understand- that was the point of my second paragraph. What followed was my attempt to share an opinion (mine) alternate to the the one given by the article writer and the majority of commentators.
I wore my hair straight for most of my life because it never occurred to me that hair could be worn differently. It wasn’t the result of social conformity- at least not of my part, though perhaps on the part of my mother. Or on the part of HER mother, who probably made a point of carefully hot combing and pressing the hair of her little girls so that they “looked right”. I understand that history, and that for many Black women, it was not just the practice of straightening that was passed on, but the mentality behind it as well.
What I am trying to convey to my peers is that for some Naturals, hair straightening was not a (sub?)conscious expression of anti Black sentiment- it was an unconscious practice that we were not aware was optional. For the latter, race is inconsequential. I imagine that for others like myself, who are a part of this second group, it never occurred to us that White Women could potentially be unwelcome within the Natural Hair Community.
The Natural Hair Community walks the line between the Black Love and Acceptance Movement and the admittedly less profound Curly Pride Movement. One is about hair and self. The other is about hair as a physical representation of the repression of an entire culture and race. Which, I must stress, I understand.
What I would like, is for those who do not share this viewpoint, at least attempt to understand it, as I have taken much effort to do so for them, before it further divides our community.
Since Caucasian women would like to be apart of #TeamNatural how come so many cosmetology schools choose NOT to teach their students how to style natural hair WITHOUT the use of direct heat?
I’ve never been to cosmetology school but I’ve heard over & over again (by watching Youtube videos and reading numerous blogs) how these schools purposely will ignore our hair.
For me, The NHC should be only for Black people who have afro textured hair only (I suppose with the exception of biracial people, black and white mixed, with Afro textured hair)
There is no need or reason why white women, and non-black/african decent women in general to be included in the NHC, it was not made for them, it will never be about them.
White women have the entire world deeming them as the most beautiful ever, why do they feel the need to intrude in spaces that they are not wanted.
Just because you are excluded doesnt mean its racist or we hate you.
It a space created to get away from you eurocentric beauty standards, you.
White women who wanna be apart of it so badly just have the typical white entitlement issues, go open any magazine, watch TV, hell go outside, you are represented.
You /dont need/ to be apart of the NHC.
I dont even see WHY this is a discussion.
White women are not and never will be apart of THE BLACK/AFRO TEXTURED Natural Hair Community.
its like we cant have anything for ourselves anymore with someone else trying to steal it and claim it as their own. Gawd.
If these “new blacks” that literally symthatize and defend white women who wanna be apart of the NHC and we LET THEM IN, soon natural hair will be all about white hair and we will be kicked out of our own creation YET AGAIN.
Black Women/Men, Please, I beg ya. Don’t let the NHC slip out of our hands.
We need to take control of our safe spaces.
And another question!
How are we even considered being ‘racist’ or ‘exclusive’, when the only reason these spaces celebrating black beauty in all its shades/textures had to be made on our own because Mainstream media refused to do so?
Why would we let non-black women in a group that they neither identify with or want to be apart of, when they still have literally always denied us space in theirs and will continue to do so?
That’s like somebody sitting across from you at table with a plate of filet mignon with the lobster tail and the side salad, and won’t put even a scrap on your plate. Then, when you go ahead and put together a peanut butter sandwich and some chocolate milk, they complain you won’t share half your sandwich while their plate is untouched.
What sense does that make?
@Finn
Whether we know it or not we are VERY influential. The natural hair movement might not be the largest or have the most platforms. But it sure is a powerful movement the world over. Now others who didn’t give half a damn about our hair suddenly was the oppurtunity to use our space as capital gain and validation to support their hair agenda (Oh yes ya’ll didn’t know? WE have the power to validate). If we give in (like we have with everything that was culturally ours) we will be hijacked out of our shit yet again. But most of us aint falling for the okey doke. Not anymore.
Calling us racist is thier temper tantrum because we have the audacity to tell those that live in a mansion that they are NOT welcome inside our club house. How dare we bruise their entitled egos -_-
Thank you!
I’m all for treating everyone equally. But that’s not where we are right now. I mean how to people ignore the fact that blogs like BGLH were created simply because nobody else is checking for us like that?
We’re hard pressed to find Black women and men in just about any magazine, why we can’t be cast as more than non-stereotypical secondary characters, and mainstream society throws a fit when a black person is cast in a part (I’m looking at you, Hunger Games/Thor). Why is it that we can never be included in these mainstream things to same rate that white people are? And why is it that, when we are included, it’s only to fill stereotypical or “Black” parts (slaves and maids)?
And, if we can’t get any real shine or attention in mainstream media, what exactly do these inclusionary people propose? If we don’t give ourselves the love and celebration we need… where is it gonna come from?
Please, answer this for me “inclusive folks”.
Exactly. I’m trying to figure out why so many respond to the race-baiting.
That is, when bogus white folks call you a “racist,” why dignify them with any kind of real response? It’s a diversionary tactic used to derail discussions.
But I’ve noticed that younger people really get wigged out when white people call them racist–they take it so seriously, as if the accusation is even valid. We would do well to develop private think thanks while we are also creating and maintaining our safe spaces to share research and exchange information. There is so much false info out there on affirmative action, on the bogus “reverse racism” nonsense diversionary tactic, on crime statics vs. white crime (and its highly selective reporting), on what percentage of the 43 million self-identifying black people in this country are actually impoverished and “at risk,” vs. the majority who are not, etc.,etc. Just saying.
Thank you. I’ll be 20 in a week or so. I’m still learning, but it’s interesting (and a little disheartening/hella frustrating) to see that a lot of people will read a pro-exclusive argument and completely blow past provable fact/debunked information to battle with emotion and opinion.
I think being called racist is such a slap in the face, it invokes an emotional response in everyone (but especially white people). I honestly think people just thought everything would go away after US society was integrated. We were (still are) and international Power, and media didn’t support as many racial issues.
When I was in high school, I was in the IB program, and one day I saw a regular ed history book. It in so many words said “the USA was integrated and lived happily ever after…until about 2000, when Black people suddenly became bad. To be continued.” My school would not pay for IB text books (that money went to the athletic department), but my teacher really knew her stuff. She came with one reputable article after the other, everyday. There were documentaries, films, soundbites from old news reports, the whole shebang.
She really woke me up, because she was not playing any kind of games. I ended up at a PWI (they offered a full ride, my HBU of choice did not. I have never payed for my education, and I never will. And I will never see a loan payment either.), which is 27th in the country for my major. The department for said major has some pretty open-minded activist types with connections. I was initially wary of them, because my school despite being a “liberal arts” school was in the bible belt and catered to upper class southern bred white families almost exclusively). But they gave me more info, more reading material and connections.
I’m becoming more involved, and getting some of my friends involved as well. I believe everybody should be treated with respect,dignity, and fairness. But I can read, hear, and see plain as day that those of African descent all over the world are generally viewed with contempt. If we can build and have our own, the contempt and displeasure for us will not be felt with the force it is now, because we will have the resources to do whatever we wish to accomplish anyway.
Please. This shouldn’t even be a conversation! Racism? Exclusivity? Why are people throwing out all these words with negative connotations attached to them? As African American women, we need to stick together…& we have done so by carving out a space for ourselves in which we can be connected. Why do other races need to edge their way in? Why is it that when black women try to stick up for ourselves (especially in charged topics like this one) we are called difficult, racist, militant, etc.? White women really need to stop victimizing themselves and trivializing our issues (that were caused by their racial stigmas) and leave our movements for empowerment alone. We are learning to accept ourselves, something that is continuously difficult to do…must we also be distracted by whites trying to (once again) insert themselves where they have no business being? I hate to sound bitter, and I know this post is all over the place, but please. I can’t even call this a discussion, b/c that would imply that there are two valid arguments.
They can’t see what they do. When they do it it’s normal because they’re used to getting their way as that’s the only way it’s supposed to be. When we don’t bow to them we’re troublemakers. No.
We’re tired.
We’re tired of giving and giving and giving and getting nothing in return.
We’re tired of buying into their tv shows and movies and magazines and being represented by negative stereotypes if they bother to represent us at all.
We’re tired of changing our names and our hair and our voices to whiten up and appease them only to realize that it’s all for nothing because once they realize that we’re black they’re just waiting for us to slip up so they can “Ah ha! I knew it!”
We’re tired of building our own spaces when they let us know over and over and over again that they don’t want us in theirs only to have them swoop in and take over once it’s lucrative for them.
We’re tired of being treated like we’re wrong for having our own spaces like we were the ones who built them because WE didn’t want to be around THEM. How odd it is that they don’t recognize that black spaces were built because black people were excluded BY THEM.
We’re tired of Asians and Latinos/Hispanics never having their motives for being separate questioned.
We’re tired of being told to get over it and stop complaining and accused of making it up and being too sensitive.
White people come in…then what? They become the face of the natural movement that was started for us and by us and yet again we’re excluded from something that we’ve created.
But a black man playing a fictional character is enough for them to get their knickers in a twist.
I feel that as a young girl who has just gone natural, I think that this natural hair movement should be exclusive to the black hair community because the movement celebrates black women embracing their natural hair. However, I’m going to play devils advocate and talk about a comment above. I saw in the comment above of a woman who was biracial but looked white, and had type 4 hair but lots of people saying “your not black so your not part of “team natural””. What the heck! The black natural hair community should not be subjective to any race but should include women who have “black” hair and have embraced that hair on their head!
People caping for this garbage should take a look at that naturally-curly forum and really see what those women really think about you. There’s a thread on that forum that exposes all of their privileged glory.
I left that site over 10 years ago and never looked back. It was disgusting then and I vowed to never give them another hit, so I made my way through yahoo groups and fotki until websites were built and youtube took off.
But, of course, they make a thread about this post and cry into their gel and scrunchies. Whatever. Keep crying.
Link please!
Link: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/hall-shame-discussion/173298-so-if-i-am-not-natural-what-i-can-i-call-my-hair-routine.html
I visited that link and I saw some average jerks getting schooled. It’s really quite common for White folk not to get it (as I thought most Black people already knew), but that discussion seemed to have an unusual proportion of folk who do get it. I really don’t understand the broad brush painting here.
Ladies,
I just want to say a few things.
Okay… so if we are being fair and honest, CurlyNikki has always been a site open to all ethnicities. This entire online discussion about who qualifies for team natural was not sparked solely by the feature CN did on a curly haired white woman. Rather, it was Ebony Magazine’s digital editor Jamilah Lemieux’s disapproving response to it that really set the internet off. You can read it here:
http://www.ebony.com/style/white-women-on-teamnatural-no-thanks-405#axzz369xVYpsX
And while it might have been *new* for Ebony to see a white woman on CN’s site, the truth is that Nikki has featured white women before. And she probably will again!
We didn’t reference CN in the original piece because instead of focusing on her choice to feature a white woman, we wanted to focus on the broader question of, should there be spaces within the “curly acceptance” world that are reserved for the #teamnatural/black female contingent. We would say yes. But to be fair to Nikki, she has always been open about the fact that she is pro-curls, and not exclusively pro-black-curls.
I understand that people are fervent in their feelings, and of course everyone has the right to ‘get in where the fit in’ in this vast online natural hair world, and follow the blogs/vlogs they resonate with, but we are not trying to encourage people to turn away from NaturallyCurly, CurlyNikki or any multi-racial curly haired blogs.
As Christina mentioned in the piece, we do think these spaces are important! But we believe that they can and should co-exist with spaces that are focused on a black female hair experience.
CurlyNikki is a solid site! And Nikki has done a lot to inspire women and increase the visibility of natural hair in black culture. The chick stays busy reppin natural hair in mainstream culture! We are CN fans, and we would never encourage anyone not to be.
Not referencing the original story (Nikki’s) that caused the ruckus is disingenuous! The referenced Ebony article was a reaction to Nikki’s feature. N we all know that. #teamnatural is not a membership based organization or sorority. So how do u restrict it?
My response to ur comment is actions speak louder than words!
I came in to write this response because the editor who was moderating comments told me that the CurlyNikki/NaturallyCurly vitriol was getting out of control. And some people might have been reading this piece as a call to forsake multi-racial hair blogs. When CN did the original feature on Sarah, her white curly haired reader, a few people were disgruntled, but all was quiet in the blogosphere and we had no intention of addressing anything. CN has been around for years and we didn’t see the feature as remarkable, because we know Nikki has featured white women before. When Ebony ran the feature it sparked a lot of dialogue, then it got picked up by Clutch Magazine and many other outlets. At that point the dialogue had evolved BEYOND the CN feature, and people were expecting and anticipating our response. In crafting this article, Christina and I discussed making it general — addressing the broader issue without directly referencing the incident that caused it. Honestly, we didn’t see the need to. We did reference it on our FB page when linking to the piece, but only to introduce the discussion the feature had caused. And we tagged CN in the post we wrote on FB so her team knew what we were discussing and why.
And no, #teamnatural is not a membership based organization or sorority. We see it as a community of black women who want to celebrate themselves. A few commenters have mentioned other race-based beauty blogs designed to uplift and celebrate a certain heritage or aesthetic. I see black-run natural hair blogs as the same thing. I’m not quite sure why the idea of celebrating ourselves as black women is so controversial, but when Latina or Asian bloggers do it, it’s seen as an appropriate response to their American experience.
Just because some one is black with a blog doesn’t mean they want to restrict themselves to black hair stories. You wanted to and it’s obvious from your blogs name but don’t put that on others! A blog is very personal n represents the owners thoughts and values so you all cannot dictate someone elses content and viewpoints. You’re trying to make #teamnatural black and rule on who is acceptable to be featured on other natural hair sites, just as others on this site is trying to dictate what black is, what it means to be black. I look at Barrack n I see a black man who could be a fulani (black) from my country in Africa. But people on this site claims he can’t be black since hes bi-racial. I’m sure there’s no category of bi – racial check box on any governmental documents. If he was an ordinary man driving and the cops pulled him over, his description would be a black male. He calls himself black yet people here are claiming he isnt. That’s what happens when people begin to stick people in little pre-defined boxes with stereotypical attributes -you don’t know when or how to stop.
You can choose to celebrate only yourself. Others want to celebrate themselves AND others. There’s nothing wrong with that! Your blog is your space! Don’t try to dictate how others should use their space just because they’re black!
All we’re doing is presenting our opinion. We can’t put anything on others. You clearly don’t agree and that’s fine. It’s your choice of who to follow. This is a debate and discussion happening throughout the online community. We’re aware that there are varying opinions. Obviously — very obviously — we cannot control what other bloggers and vloggers choose to do! And believe, we won’t be unsubscribing from any of the many bloggers and vloggers we follow because they have a difference of opinion. One of our own writers, Jc, has a difference of opinion. We allowed her to speak on that today. I’ve been blogging for 6 years. I’m no stranger to the fact that opinions vary within this community.
Really? Who cares its just hair.. what difference does it make? Would it be cool if white people had a straight hair movement and excluded blacks..this is why I don’t engage much in the natural hair community. Any place where people are excluded im over it..uggh ignorance will always live on.
@allinclusivegirl
Well, considering that was the practice for 300+ years, and when Black women straightened their hair they were still treated like garbage…what’s your point?
Ok, goodbye.
“Any place where people are excluded im over it.” uhhhhhhh….
isnt the whole point of this the fact that black people have been excluded for 100s of years what got us here?!?
I think the part that saddens me the most about this is the black people who have no clue.
I read this comment on her fb page:
“Oh please *yawn* . All of a sudden black women are embracing their natural hair when a few years ago it was BLACK women who thought their own natural hair was unkempt. Which is why they relaxed and weaved their hair in the first place. It was self hate and it’s still destroying us. Black people aren’t the only ones with curly hair so stop the BS.”
Really? She sits her black tail up there and she has no idea why black women (and everyone else) thought natural hair was unkempt? I applaud the young lady she was responding to for not stepping outside of herself because it’s not my fight, as she wasn’t responding to me, and I have half mind to tell her off.
RE: I read this comment on her fb page:
Who is the “her” you’re referring to??? LillyWhite716?
LOL. No, no, no. I would have promptly dragged Sarah myself and not thought twice about it if she even tried it.
A black woman on Sarah’s fb page said that silliness to another black woman who was explaining that black women’s natural hair was (is) seen as unkempt. I don’t get how some black women have no idea WHY black women were relaxing their hair in the first place. HINT: It had nothing to do with black women up and deciding that there was something wrong with their hair.
I may be reading too much into this, bit her name is “Lilly White” 716??? Seems intentional… I think I’m reading too much into this though.
Waterlily716
Some Black people are lost. Nothing’s ever a big deal until it’s too late. It’s sad. I saw a quote on tumblr that said “you can’t love somebody into loving you” and that’s exactly what she, and others like her, are trying to do. They think if they coddle white women, they’ll see that they are “One of the Good Negroes”. When really, if they took a second and thought about what they’re doing, they’d realize it will never work. Like do they understand that they are one post away from being labeled “One of the Bad, Mean Negroes”, never to be taken seriously again? Hello?? SHE ALREADY THINKS THIS OF YOU. She’s just waiting for you to prove her right.
Miss Patrice went in with the truth (or her truth if you disagree)!
I agree that exclusivity does not mean racism. However, I see no reason, if it were up to me, for exclusivity.
1) Having other people in our “club” doesn’t diminish my experience.
2) If I exercise exclusivity based on someone’s race, then I should probably do it for hair type to. I should get angry or upset or hurt anytime that I see a post about a person with anything other than 4c hair.
3) Defining race isn’t clear cut as cepfeng mentioned; and it’s only going to get more difficult. I have biracial family members. I’m sure that there are some of them who wouldn’t pass the test for membership in Team Natural according to some people on here. And that’s incredibly sad.
4) How many people are we really talking about here? If a relatively small number of non-black women get something positive out of reading sites dedicated to black women’s hair, then good for them.
I wasn’t raised to believe in an eye for eye mentality. And a lot of this feels like that.
LJ, I think you are only seeing the racial side of the house and missing all the points about the social stigma and struggle.
It’s not exclusively “black” to have curly hair and wear it.
The movement, as stated in the article and in many of the comments, is the journey. It’s not a paper-bag test at the door.
Have your biracial family members transitioned from chemically altered hair?
Have they ever big chopped to see beneath the altered texture of their hair?
Do they get accosted for wearing locs, twists, puffs, full afros, braids of any sort?
Do they have to strategically style their hair in fear of the connotations it would have to being: Dirty, unkempt, ghetto, etc.?
Have they had to “Learn” how to treat their hair from mentors other than their mother who like them have never known what their true hair felt or looked like?
#teamnatural is not exclusive because of our skin color, we are exclusive because our journey is unique and one that cannot be mimicked unless you take the social stigma along with it.
A non-PoC simply cannot do that.
Thank you for this article!! Natural hair movement is for black women ONLY. Period. Let the other women that already have their own exclusive platforms talk about their hair and leave our spaces alone. I don’t know about y’all ut I’m tired of being told that the very exclusion that we try to practice like everyone else makes us “racist”. The entitlement never ceases to amaze me. Its nothing more than a pathetic attempt to appropriate another one of the movements we pioneer….I aint having it.
BTW when we were frying our scalps to death and warring over “good/bad” hair where were all these other women advocating our self love? Oh yes living comfortably off of the capital that the weave and perm industry has given them (and many still do).
Loudmouth BULLY!
I see ole I is back, trolling from Ebony.com.
Girl, bye.
Okay, I have some questions for the women caping to allow non-black women in the NHM.
Soooo…
1.) Is the fact Black women recieve more flack for curly/kinky/coily hair than non-black women irrelevant to you?
2.) Have you ever wondered where the aversion to curly/kinky/coily hair originated? Hint: it just so happens to be found in place that have an aversion to born/black skin…wonder why?
3.)Yes, non-black women can have our hair texture….but let’s say you had the same type 3 texture as a non-black woman….who’s more likely to get fired, her or you?
4.) The natural hair movement was started by who?
4a.) True or False: It was started because racism and discrimination from (insert group here)?
That’s all
I found it interesting that all of the natural hair “gurus” defending this nonsense have all been sponsored by naturally-curly to do product reviews.
You see that too? Some black people are awake and I love it.
*ding**ding**ding* somebody gets it! I thought I was just being extra when I noticed that.
THANK U – I had to unsub from a few of them based on their ridiculous response to this situation then the light bulb went off in my head that these people get boucoup FREE products from Naturally Curly.com so they can all miss me with their fake kumbaya rhetoric.
NONE of them even addressed how women WHO LOOK LIKE THEM feel, they just jumped on the “we’re being exclusionary reverse racists by not allowing curly haired yt women to join the natural hair movement”. Bye, Felicia
If curly hair acceptance is as deep, profound and affecting to white women as it is to black women, why are there a bajillion natural hair blogs and vlogs by black women, and just a few curly hair blogs by white women? I mean… they blog about everything else.
And if curly hair acceptance is as deep to white women as it is to black women, how come segments on black natural hair STAY in the news and the talk show circuit, but you rarely ever see segments on the “curly hair acceptance” movement.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/10487329_657417257681399_2369687481346961979_n.jpg[/img]
Oh, and keep in mind that white women make up about 38% of the American population, and black women make up about 7%.
Population statistics aside, nobody spends the kinda payola on hair the way black women do (it’s fact). If anything, for all the money we spend, I wonder why we don’t get any more attention.
I agree, when non-Black women wear their hair curly, it’s seen as political. Every Black woman who has natural hair isn’t doing it because of some political agenda.
Oh and to answer the question everyone should be able to claim it because natural comes in so many forms, but when it comes to black naturals then blacks claim it. If you have your original knows great claim that (no matter the color). I have my natural breast. GREAT CLAIM THAT! I am natural through and through, I don’t wear make-up, or use dyes perfumes, or dyed products and I don’t even use deodorant. No one will stand by you in the dead of summer, but GREAT CLAIM THAT! We allow others to have their little exclusiveness (boy scouts can”t have gay troop leaders), let us have ours.
Oh have a seat.
Well its not racism cause we can’t join other races stuff just because. They have their own thing so we should have ours. Though I understand how they feel left out of the naturally curly movement, but I think instead of them get upset they should make their own and open it to All who want to be there. A place where Curlies from all shades can come together and talk and share, but to go on a black naturals website and want to jump in, I’m sorry, but you are just asking to be ignored and talked about. I guess if they want then they could leave us out of their little group or forum if they feel the need to, No skin off my nose. I was always taught if you don’t fit in a group, start your own; you’ll be amazed how many will join.
Exactly and they have always left us out anyway. I learnt today about how naturally curly used to snide & ignore black women.
Can I ask though, what is ‘black’ really? Below is a picture of me, I have type hair and am transitioning, yet have green eyes and white skin, a black mother and middle eastern father. Growing up in a white area I experienced horrendous racism that even resulted in beatings etc. You think that it’s just about the shade of your skin? Why do you get to define what ‘black’ is?
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/DSC8789.jpg[/img]
*type 4
Hi Cepfeng. Many Black people have biracial members in their family and don’t consider them non-black. If you identify with being Black, then that’s great. You’re Black. We do, like you said come in all different shades. I don’t think you should ever let someone tell you you’re not Black even if your skin is white. This about the movement though. The movement is about us unconditioning what we were conditioned to believe. Redefining what was subconsciously taught to oneself is not an easy task and takes many failed attempts to accomplish. So, if a white woman wants to be a part of a movement that has just warmed up, she cannot. You on the other hand, considering you have a kinky hair texture (even if you didn’t and it was curly) are a part of this movement because you’re transitioning from one state to another. Your mindset is going to have to readjust and you’re going to have to learn how to manage a hair type you were probably never taught how to manage at home, just like many other Black women around the world. Welcome and good luck on your healthy hair journey, honey!
I’m going to respectfully disagree. Biracial people are not Black. They are family and are loved but they are not black, they are biracial.
then your president is not black
Don’t know why I can’t reply to Jay. But Jay you’re right he is not Black he is Biracial. His mother is a white woman. He relates to the Black experience but he is biracial. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t understand why this is so hard to accept. You can’t show me a purple crayon and tell me it’s red. The one drop rule came about so white men would not have to be held accountable for the consequences of their sexual indiscretions with slaves.
@renee with that type of thinking, then damn near everyone who is “black” in america is not black but biracial due to slavery and the raping of black women from white men. its a fact that a majority of blacks, who’s family history that falls way back to slavery time, have white blood. Why do you thing we are all different shades? Hey, we might as well call everyone on earth biracial because no one really is 100% one pure race. Even whites have black in them some very far down the line. This country is a melting pot.
I read the comments and its seem as if everyone want to tell this girl she isnt black she is biracial but if someone like Halley berry, alicia keys told the world I’im not black, Im biriacal, everyone would have a fit and say she hates herself and she’s deny her blackness etc.SMH
I’m not sure why I can’t reply to Renee’s latest comment but I disagree. If we revisit the POTUS’ comments on this subject, a lot of the identification of biracial people is about perception. If the POTUS was not the POTUS, not publicly known, he would be perceived and thus treated as a Black man. This is largely why he identifies as a Black man and not a biracial one. It isn’t necessarily about shunning or not acknowledging his White mother, but he gets none of the benefits of being white. So it is much deeper than Black folk just holding on to the one drop rule. A lot about how we self identify is related to how society perceives us.
I agree with Renee. It’s not to be mean but I honestly can’t see how biracial people are JUST black. I feel like it is denying that other part of them. A person with a non black parent and a black parent is not the same as a person with two black parents. It doesn’t make sense for someone to have to deny their non black parent.
cool story, but i was just stating a fact nothing more
@cepfeng, @Renee
Race is a social construction. “Black” is defined by its relativity to “white”. White is constructed as the norm. Black is constructed as the other. I would say, if you feel as though your race makes you marginalized and you have the experience of racial prejudice, you’re “black”. The degree to which one’s body is a signifier of blackness (otherness, difference) is the degree to which one has the lived experience of blackness and racial oppression.
@jl I agree. I’m am not fair skinned but my great grandfather on my mom’s side is Germain. His wife was Haitian. All of their children were born and raised in Haiti. So they identify as Haitians and consider themselves Black. My Mom has always identified as Black. She’s a dark skinned woman just like me. And the only reason why ppl ever question our ethnicity is because of our hair texture and length. But I am Black, and that’s final. If someone saw me walking down the street, they would never think otherwise. Seriously, what right do we have to tell another being that they aren’t black because they have White blood in them…..When Tiger Woods said he was Caublanasian, many Blacks were incensed. This has to stop.
Well Black people have considered biracial people Black if they have a Black parent.
Are you saying you got beat by Black students for being biracial or by white/non-black students for being biracial?
Nobody deserves to be bullied or beaten up for things they can’t control. But I can probably tell you the psychology for why your bullies zoomed in on you
I didn’t see anyone shade discriminating in the comments. Can you point to something specifically?
I’m also fair complected like you are and I have coarse, thick hair and I am Black. You even mentioned the sort of struggles you experienced because of your race so my question is; do you identify as a Black person?
I do think you bring up a topic that will become more and more relevant as interracial marriages increase and there are more multi-racial children. How will they identify? I believe that being Black is beautiful and because of the oppression our culture has had to suffer (I’m from America but this is true of many places all over the world) our character and our strength as a people is outstanding. I believe White privilege and culture is a culture of lazy, selfish oppressors who have the “luxury” to not have to think about other peoples’ struggles because it’s not them. And there’s plenty of people who aren’t racially White but have what I call “White people status”. They chose to turn a blind eye to others suffering and focus on their own privilege.
I’m married to a White man and we have had many discussions about race that he never, ever had growing up; he learned a lot by living me and listening. He was also able to give me a lot of insight into how White people think and often times they are just thoughtless, don’t care and because they can’t relate they are unwilling to learn. Personally, I don’t want my children to be that way. I want them to be thoughtful, intelligent people who have the courage to stand up for people who are oppressed. I’m sure they won’t “look” Black based on whatever stereotypes place on that but Black comes in all shades and looks. I watched “Dark Girls” recently and one of the interviewees (which was a high school student!) said “Black is an essence”. That really stuck with me. Black is a beautiful essence that radiates from your soul.
I know it can be very hard and very painful to be where you are right now. As a person who grew up in mostly White schools and was often confused for not being Black (which would lead to me hearing and seeing very horrible racist things) it wasn’t always easy to own my Black voice but once I fully did I’ve been a better person ever since.
I had a wonderful mother who really talked to me about her experiences as a Black woman and I would encourage you to do the same with your mother. Black is beautiful and an essence that people should be very proud to be a part of. I hope you discover that for yourself.
Sorry but your children will not be black. They will be white.
No, they will be biracial, blacks, we are the only ones who allow “1/2” or “1/4” etc to claim whole supporting our own erasure. SMFH
Not to be rude, but I think the issue with your posts is that you’re conflating white skin privilege with a lack of socio-political consciousness. Being aware of the existence of white/light skin privilege doesn’t mean that you no longer have it, it just means that you’re sensitive to its implications. Until there becomes a way to thoroughly (and convincingly) permanently darken your skin to black(er), your white skin privilege will remain immutable. I’m sure you and your husband are racial progressives, but you are nonetheless privileged by virtue of your skin colors. It seems that you’re railing against people who benefit from white privilege without owning the fact that actually in our racialized world, you (unwittingly) are among the beneficiaries.
Hi @anon. I think you’ve tried to thoughtfully respond to some of the comments here and I appreciate that. Not sure if you’ve read all my comments but I did respond to another one of yours that may shed more light on my position.
I am not implying you can shed your privilege; quite the contrary. I’m saying everyone should check their privilege whether it be related to skin, money, education, country, etc and by being aware of that privilege you can use that knowledge to better fight oppression. And for the record I’ve recognized and I am aware of many of my privileges but for anyone that’s privileged it is a struggle and learning process. Also I think people are forming this impression of me from very few facts.
I strongly don’t think anyone should lighten or darken their skin in attempt to feel more accepted by any group. I am trying to understand where some of these other comments are coming from. I hadn’t experienced this short of light v dark dichotomy since I was a child and I don’t want to assume where it is coming from. Could you share more about why you suggested people darken their skin? Do you think darker skin makes someone Blacker?
I think perhaps one of the issues (and distractions to these conversations) is that there is an assumption that light skin Black people can not experience racism like a dark skin Black person and I think that is true to a point. I think it’s a different experience and we would all be better served by perhaps talking about it and understanding each other versus making assumptions. Also for the record, light skin Black (can only speak for America) do not get some sort of all access pass for having light skin. There’s definitely a “putting you in your place” racism that happens often and can come from our closest White friends and even family. Again, I’m not trying to imply that light skin Black people have it harder. I’m only trying to express we have experiences with racism and being oppressed is very much a part of our story.
During civil rights in America, a huge talking point was it should not matter what the color of your skin is. If you really think about it the ultimate goal is that no one is racialized because what purpose does it serve other than to oppress? And I am not talking about being absorbed into being White people. I’m a very strong believer that the concept of being White needs to be broken down because it is a culture of laziness, privilege, callousness and racism.
I think you know the answer to this. In my opinion, it’s about where your issue stem from, deep down. The only real thing I think all naturals in the natural hair community share is that throughout US history, Afro-Textured hair has been hated simply because it signifies Blackness. The direct reason why you’ve embraced your natural may be different (I went natural because I found relaxers time consuming and painful), but I think we all share this one characteristic.
The white girl featured cannot relate to this, which is why she doesn’t belong. If she gets hate for her hair, this is not the reason behind it.
As a person with African ancestry, your not embracing your natural hair also stems from this, so I think you have a place in the movement 🙂
If you have any relation to a black person, people consider you black. You’re mixed but a part of you is black. You’re just a lighter, that doesn’t mean you aren’t considered as being black or being able to “go natural.” To me being black is embracing who you are and celebrating your heritage.
Hmmmm >> To me being black is embracing who you are and celebrating your heritage. <<<
Ok, that is fine and dandy, so why the erasure of her father's side? I don't know, but it has and will always strike me as odd that people mixed with black / african blood get called black by default. Not the other race by default, whether white, asian or whatever else. She may be part black, but since when does part make whole? #sincerequestion #noshade
Maybe, i'm looking at the UK (and I am Nigerian too) perspective on this, mixed / biracial people generally identify as both or all their mixes. This phenomena carried over from slavery times is another reason for the confusion, even within the hair movement etal
@TeeTee thanks for actually asking the question. Just because someone identifies as Black doesn’t mean they ignore other parts of their racial background. Their other cultural background just may not be something they need to label because there is no statement to be made or they can make any depending on how that cultural embraces them.
In America, I think it is very important to identify as Black when you are a bi-racial/multi-racial/light/fair person. Many of them are granted a privilege by virtue of their birth and how they look to have access to a lot of opportunities like White people. They need to be sure to never forget where they came from and the sacrifices their family made for them to be where they are. They need to be sure to be courageous and stand up against people oppressing with their privilege. Sadly because how the racist culture works White people listen more to people they perceive as privileged like them. This is why it is also important that we have White allies in the cause as well. My husband is White and through our discussions it is amazing how isolated White people can keep themselves away from really discussing race in America. They also have a very hard time relating because they have nothing to compare it to in their lives. In fact, I’ve hypothesized that the reason many Jewish people have played an active role in civil rights is because of their own culture persecution. Many of them can relate to some parts of the Black experience so many of them were a part of the struggle (look to the Loving v Virginia for one example of Jewish lawyers playing a very active role).
Lastly, my mother, who was very active in civil rights, would talk about their being this sort of inside joke about light skin being the most militant Black people (look to Huey P. Newton for an example). Part of that probably plays into trying to “prove our blackness” but another part may be that we get this sort of privilege because our skin color isn’t already seen from the get go as aggressive. Meanwhile dark people are put in check far more swiftly and harshly whenever they do anything that could be perceived as “aggressive”.
You said you are from the UK so I can see where this doesn’t translate directly.
@cepfeng
Black is defined in the same way that makes you white or Asian. BOTH your parents must be of the same race. This is not an attempt to downplay the struggles you might’ve had. However, you are not black but of mixed race. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Why are you going from website to website attempting to bully people…..who made you Queen of the Blacks?
@I
How would you know what i was doing unless you were my own personal stalker? If you don’t like the common sense that I present then ignore me. If rational makes me queen then thanks 🙂
The biological basis for race is very, very, very thin. Race is overwhelmingly a social construct and is given substance and meaning by the way we interact with each other and the way that we interact with our environment. I don’t really care for labels of who is black and who is not… we all have the right to self-identify as we see fit. No one can tell ME who I am. That being said, societally, someone who is of African descent, but is fair skinned, with narrower features and a looser hair texture will be perceived quite differently from someone who is much darker, has broader features, and has kinkier hair. We as “blacks” can certainly feel free to talk about ourselves as though we are perceived the same (and pretend that we perceive one another the same), but that has not exactly been the case.
@anon well put and thanks for eloquently explaining why the concept of race is so thin (I wish I could have done such a good job!). I’d like to add that I don’t think (at least not in America) anyone is pretending or assuming light and dark Black people are treated the same. In fact we have a long history of shade discrimination in our own Black community that is very ugly and has been very much against darker skin Black people. I guess my question is when people are drawing these lines of race that puts light skin people outside of Black, what benefit and purpose does it serve?
Also Ms. Vee’s logic about two Black parents just can’t hold up well in America. What if two 1/2 Black people have children together? The parents are both brown, the child is brown. Are they not considered Black? Black Americans have a history of varied racial backgrounds so I don’t know by that logic how any of us are Black.
I was sipping much tea and nodding in London, getting all kinds of life. Then #scratch. Nice hair.
Sweetie, you are biracial. mkay… And that’s totally cool. Re-read your comment, black mum, mid east pops. Whomp, you are both no? You know like obama, halle berry, alicia keys, rashida jones, maya rudolph, mariah carey et al can you see where i’m going here? They may identify as black because of the sick one drop (taint of black blood) rule imposed by dead white men to protect and privilege whiteness ABOVE all. #pause #letitsink – but they have parents from different races, like you gorgeous girl #drumroll = biracial!
I don’t want to be rude, but like we say in nigeria, abeg go siddown somewhere.
Lol
LOL. there is nothing wrong with embracing your race/heritage even if it’s a mixture of 484884 races. It’s beautiful. I agree with you girl.
I’m not trying to be rude or a smart mouth but if your mother is black. You are black. Black comes in all different shapes, sizes and shades. Being black is not only about that color of your skin but thats where it begins. And the majority traditionally defined what black was (one drop rule, etc.) but it up to you to define what black it to you and spread the word if you are passionate about it.
You can only be black socially. The one drop rule is a bad example, because sex slavery did INDEED happen.Besides it was racist white people who made up that one drop rule. People who are mixed are simply mixed. People who are American with ancestors from Africa have African blood, but most of us are NOT African.Being black socially is much different than being black.
Our ancestors who arrived on ships didn’t look like me and probably didn’t look like most of us.
The lady doth protest too much me thinks.
You’re not black, you are biracial. Black people should define blackness, not people who put their toe in the water one minute and then take it out cuz they can.
That’s all i was tryna say. I’m sure i’ll get thumb down all the way to blazes. But, ah well.
@merry, I wasn’t even going to say anything to your ignorant comment about “my children being white” (right because some random internet person determines that, pfft) but this comment is way out of line. Who are these Black people you speak of defining blackness? What about Malcolm X who was light skinned and had red hair, is he not Black enough for you? I really could go all day with examples of strong Black leaders that are biracial/multi-racial who have identified themselves as Black and fight against the oppressors. And none of them were/are “sticking toes in and out”. Meanwhile here you are sticking your toe in with your divisive and hateful comments that are useless and do nothing for the cause.
Your statements and many of the statements above are so counter productive and only serve the oppressors. Go read up on your history of dividing and conquering people. You seriously need to get educated and stop sharing your lazy opinions.
Just beacuse you identify yourself as black doesnt mean you are ACTUALLY black?
@Jay Is this a question or just a statement you are trying to make? It really doesn’t matter because the ugly sentiment is still there. This has been a shocking and sad thread that’s branched off this topic.
There’s this group of Black people who are creating these very detrimental lines of “Blackness”. For one, both my parents are brown Black people who fought hard for civil rights in America. By trick of genetics and my families history of having other cultural lineage I have light skin and this is a story you will find over and over again in America. Even if I were half Black and and half something else, Black Americans need to embrace their rich heritage and claim their place in that history and feel free and proud to be Black. One commenter above said they are Nigerian and perhaps there’s others of you in this thread that are from other countries and don’t understand how being multi racial is a part of the BLACK AMERICAN experience. And frankly, if you are from another country you really need to educate yourself about the Black American experience because we have been pioneers in Black rights for people all over the world and that includes light women that look just like @cepfeng. For those of you who are Americans saying this vitriol that is bordering on the old “house v field” dichotomy, I don’t know even what to say to you. It’s heartbreaking and sad that you have fed into that sort of divisive thinking. Ponder this question “What harm do you think it causes for light/biracial/multiracial Black people to embrace their Black heritage and fight against the struggle?
depends on how you look at it.
in some ways, the oppressors are served when someone with a white biological parent is considered black but not white.
somehow it’s okay for white people to define whiteness and exclude or include on that basis, but not blacks.
are you running to white people flailing the same accusations at them? i suspect not, even though someone with a white parent should be able to claim white if the opposite is true.
Ugly sentiment? really? because i speak truth, i mean seriously?? i didnt mean it to sound ugly i was just speaking a statement of a fact
@cepfeng is not a black woman with light skin tone. she is a BIRACIAL WOMAN and that is FACT.
I may be 1/2457 white but im not gonna claim to be white
in the same way that i am a british citizen of nigerian descent, yes i embrace my nigerian heritage but that doesn’t make me nigerian.
Another example, a liger is a cross between a tiger and a lion, that liger is NOT a tiger nor is it a lion but something new. This is the same of bi racial people
Also the term multiracial black people makes absolutely no sense. Black is a race not a political region.
This isn’t about being horrible or discrimnative, all i’m doing is stating fact, and i’m not using this to argue against them being involved in the natural hair movement, just simply that they are not black. FACTS!
@merry so according to you, Halle Berry, alicia keys,
Shemar Moore, lisa bonet and countless others of mixed are not black, even though they and everyone else recognizes them as black. lets be honest they arent recognized as whites and never will be. So you would have no problem if these people told the world that they werent black, because according to you, they are not black. Also do you live in america? do you have ancestors from slavery? because if you do you arent 100% black. the possibility of you having white, indian maybe even Hispanic blood is very high due to the rape of black women. which means if you have roots in america you are of mixed race too, and are also are not “black”. Are you a black women? Sad if you are, you are oppressing your own people by making being “black” an exclusive hierarchy and dissing those of mixed race. When you are also of mixed race when it really comes down to it.
im so tired of people not being able to accept truths.
Halle berry is NOT black, however there is nothing wrong in her and others choosing to embrace her black side. It still doesn’t change the fact that she aint black.
Being black is flippin race, why are you make it sound like a society??
@Jay and @merry, you do realize these are arbitrary definitions that you are spouting off, right? Did you even read my initial comment about the “race” becoming more fluid as more and more people become interracial? “Race” is a construct to divide people and you are doing just that. You are saying divisive and hateful comments under the guise of “facts”. THE FACT is that race has been historically used as a political tool to oppress. My belief is that if you have Black people in your family and you respect, embrace and love them and understand the struggle and want to fight the oppression you are Black.
Both of you sound woefully uneducated about American history in race which IS significant to the world as far as Black rights. @Jay you are British and Nigerian so what makes you think you can push your contrived notions of race on Black Americans? And I will readily admit I do not have a full understanding or scope of Nigerian race issues but from the little I read you have very deep issues with race and colorism.
And now here you are, obviously clouded by your privilege of now living in a western culture and you are feeding into some notion that “facts are facts”. Who wrote those “facts”?? Answer: White people. Did you know that the oppressor factually once stated in text books that Black people are like apes and inferior to White people!? Give me a break on facts. Don’t go around telling a Black woman who as she stated has a Black mother and been persecuted in her White neighborhood for being Black that she isn’t Black. You don’t know a thing about what it IS TO BE BLACK IN AMERICA.
The way I feel about “Whiteness” is that it is a “culture” of oppression, callousness and privilege. @merry insinuated that it helps White people when a biracial person only identifies as Black but that is far from true. If more people embraced Blackness and I’m speaking from an American spirt of fearlessness to stand against oppressions, we would all be better off. We can all check our privilege and turn away from committing oppressive acts which lets be real right now, that’s exactly what you are doing. You and @merry can continue to oppress through your misguided and divisive words. You need to really evaluate what purpose you think you are serving by going around telling who is Black and who isn’t. Black comes in all shade and looks in America. I guess in Nigeria it comes in one but the rest of the world does not prescribe to your small mindedness.
Go ahead and hold on to your so called “logic” I’m sure it will serve you well in your closed world view.
@puff
you have totally put what i was saying out of context and i am not offended by what you are saying. I have not said anything that is a lie. Black people are a race (negroid) before any form of mixing occured. All i was saying is that the woman @cefpeng is definitely not black because she has a mixture of races in her. True or falso is she not of a mixture of races? is this not the truth or not? I am not talkiing lies i am just telling you what it is. I am not trying to be rude or offensive but that is what she is.Nothing i have said is hateful at all,im not that kind of person.
However i am not taking away the fact thagt she wont have recieved similar/same oppression to someone that is not mixed.
i dont believe my notions are contrived, @cefpeng is of a mixture of black and middle eastern, she is a MIXED race. She cant call herself black because she isnt completely black, she is middle eastern too and that is how it is. In a previous comment i used the example of a liger, you cannot call it a lion, nor can u call it a tiger because its neither.
Facts
Is she black? not completely
is she middle eastern? not completely
is she both? yes
Can she choose who she identifies with more and feels more affiliated to? yes
because there is absolutely nothing wrong with that
Does this sound hateful to you? because if it does its all in your head i assure you. I love everyone regardless of race so theres no hate.
You jump on her screaming down the whole of the comments that i do not know what being Black in america is about. I am more than educated on black history in america. Do you truly believe that oppression of black people exists only in America? How dare you tell me i dont understand oppression because im not an american? Do u believe america is the only place where black people are discriminated, that i have not seen mixed race people similar to @cepfeng mistreated for being part black?
‘ You don’t know a thing about what it IS TO BE BLACK IN AMERICA.’ smh
‘You and @merry can continue to oppress through your misguided and divisive words. You need to really evaluate what purpose you think you are serving by going around telling who is Black and who isn’t. Black comes in all shade and looks in America. I guess in Nigeria it comes in one but the rest of the world does not prescribe to your small mindedness.’
Tell me exactly what i said that is oppressive?? what are you even saying? Do you even know what oppression means?
I live in britain, and it comes in all shades here as well, You are telling me i am small minded because i acknowledge that a woman of BOTH black and middle eastern is of both races not just the one? All shades of black come in one in Nigeria? LMAO, im sorry i just cant, its quite an ignorant comment.
If you have no true understanding of what i am saying then please say instead of being rude and insultive.
ANYWAYS i do believe @cepfeng can be included in #teamnatural because whether she is partly black? (or am i wrong @puff, maybe im just being hateful and oppressive 😛 )
technically being black is a race so you have to have both parents that are black. You are not black but of a mixed race and im not trying to be disrespectful but it is a fact and i personally believe You received that kind of treatment because you was/are different.
@Jay, you aren’t reading or trying to engage at all. Are you completely unwilling to recognize that White people created these “technical” race definitions? Also are you unwilling to see that maybe, MAYBE you are being influenced by British colonialism thinking right now? I mean you seriously are saying the same thing over and over again. You want to just say “Welp, dem the facts” and call it a day? I’ve already asked for what your purpose is here. Why do you want to draw these lines? This is also starting to feel like when people refuse to accept that racism is put upon the oppressed by the oppressors that are White people in America because they have the power.
Also are all mixed race people able to relate? What if they have one Asian parent and one Hispanic parent? Would they just be thrown into mixed race with a person who is Black and Middle Eastern? This is NOT about “scientifically” categorizing and breaking down people. It is about the sort of oppression you experience and where your attitude and passions lie. Whether you can see it or not, Black is a MOVEMENT in America. I have no idea what all you are doing in the UK but I know that it is well documented that the British have very little to no class mobility which comes with all it’s own set of problems. In America classism is dished out based on race, which is where even the wealthiest and affluent of Black still experience racism. I don’t think the fight should be for Black people to become privileged in the sense we can oppress the poor regardless of race. The real struggle is to break down these horrible attitudes of class and privilege.
I’m sure your small mindedness serves you well in your life but in America telling a light skin Black person they are NOT Black because of how they look or the “mixed” racial makeup of their family is ludicrous. Black Americans ARE ALL “MIXED RACE”. I’ve had to explain this to my friends from the Caribbean; “This is IT for Black Americans, we don’t have a homeland to go back to or a language we share. We share this experience of fighting oppression. We live behind enemy lines with nowhere to escape. The only thing I can liken it to is one parent hates you and abuses outright and the other parent ignores that and also ignores you as a person but you still have to live with them and ‘follow their rules'”
You clearly are unwilling to understand the Black American experience which is very much a part of defining Black. If you are going to say anything else I implore you to answer why you feel the need to align yourself with “logic” that was created hundreds of years ago by White men to make themselves appear superior to all other cultures? Why would it matter to stay by the book on this to you? And why are you unwilling to directly respond to my comments about American culture? You are NOT engaging and by doubling down on what you view as “fact” is revealing that you have very little to stand on.
@ puff please who do you think you are? Because you are American you are all knowing and because he is Nigerian he is ‘small minded’ by default? By your own admission you know nothing about relations in Nigeria, so keep your ill conceived comments about the country to yourself. Who told you we are looking to you guys for understanding of ‘blackness’? You can differ in opinion to him, but please don’t try to use his country of origin as a reason to render his argument bogus. Black Americans are by no means the ultimate definition of what it means to be African or black, whichever you want to call it.
sighs* cracks knuckles*
My goodness, do you know what you sound like? how can you can call me small minded, look at what you are positing on the internet.
‘you aren’t reading or trying to engage at all. Are you completely unwilling to recognize that White people created these “technical” race definitions?’
This isnt about definig what a race is. She posts that she is black and middle eastern,this means she is of a mixed race..fact
I was giving an opinion simples.
‘ Also are you unwilling to see that maybe, MAYBE you are being influenced by British colonialism thinking right now?’
Excuse you? I said i a british citizen of a nigerian descent. This means that i am born and bred in the UK but my parents are nigerian. So no i am NOT being influenced by british colonialism.
:S
‘I mean you seriously are saying the same thing over and over again. You want to just say “Welp, dem the facts” and call it a day? I’ve already asked for what your purpose is here. Why do you want to draw these lines?’
Yes because you dont get what i am saying, so you keep throwing your opinions on something that you are not truly understanding and just taking it COMPLETELY out of context. I AM NOT drawing or dividing anyone? what the hell?
The girl is not JUST BLACK she is also middle eastern,how in the world is that me creating division. like?
‘This is also starting to feel like when people refuse to accept that racism is put upon the oppressed by the oppressors that are White people in America because they have the power’
ok
‘Also are all mixed race people able to relate? What if they have one Asian parent and one Hispanic parent? Would they just be thrown into mixed race with a person who is Black and Middle Eastern? This is NOT about “scientifically” categorizing and breaking down people. ‘
this is even besides my point, so why you are mentioning this i don not understand. but to answer i am not breaking down anyone, i am just repeating what SHE HAS SAID HERSELF! i havent even said she is not black, shie is PARTLY! No not all mixed people can relate on certain levels
‘It is about the sort of oppression you experience and where your attitude and passions lie.’
yeah i agree thats why i said, if she feels that she can identify more with her black side then fair enough. there’s nothing wrong with that.
‘ Whether you can see it or not, Black is a MOVEMENT in America.’
WHAT?!?!?! have u been outside of america? like WHAT?? im actually in shock. and im close minded, riggghhhhtttt!
‘ I have no idea what all you are doing in the UK but I know that it is well documented that the British have very little to no class mobility which comes with all it’s own set of problems. In America classism is dished out based on race, which is where even the wealthiest and affluent of Black still experience racism. ‘
AMERICA IS NOT THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT EXISTS WITH BLACK PEOPLE! classism based on race exists in europe as well. You know nothing about the UK at all, do u believe that its only america that black people are oppressed? take a seat
I’m sure your small mindedness serves you well in your life but in America telling a light skin Black person they are NOT Black because of how they look or the “mixed” racial makeup of their family is ludicrous. Black Americans ARE ALL “MIXED RACE”.
Reread that first sentence and u can see it makes no sense. ofcourse a light skinned BLACK PERSON IS BLACK?
‘You clearly are unwilling to understand the Black American experience which is very much a part of defining Black. ‘
Someone cry with me, you did not seriously type this as a serious statement did u? lets pretend it’s a typo
‘If you are going to say anything else I implore you to answer why you feel the need to align yourself with “logic” that was created hundreds of years ago by White men to make themselves appear superior to all other cultures? Why would it matter to stay by the book on this to you?’
one more time: SHE IS MIXED RACE, SHE IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE COMPLETELY BLACK! part black part middle eastern
if she wants to call herself black then fine, if she wants to fight against oippression that is also fine.
Is she part of teamnatural? OFCOURSE
fin.
@Jay you continue to not address any of my questions or critically engage. You’ve decided to relentless let a dictionary that was written by White people tell you who is and isn’t Black. You said she is not Black and I don’t agree with you holding to some dated concept of Black because it’s more than just a dated definition and for whatever reason you won’t acknowledge or engage about that. If you can’t understand how telling someone they are not Black (when they are and identify as such) is hurtful you are just oblivious and a thoughtless person who does not understand how Black Americans feel about being Black. You must consider most Americans “not Black” since many if not most of us are “mixed” with other races in our family history…any response to that? (I’m guessing you won’t because you haven’t answered any of my questions thus far)
Also, I never said you don’t understand oppression, I said you don’t understand what being Black in America is and you don’t. A person doesn’t have to represent both sides of their parents race they can feel Black, live Black and be Black. And your comments are oppressive because you are trying to oppress your contrived notion of what Black is based on what I’ve already said is an arbitrary definition created by White men long ago.
You are not critically engaging on this topic and you’ve decided to just stick to your guns and still not answer any of my questions. This isn’t a discussion; it’s you just you saying how right you think you are with no evidence as to why. Lastly, you’ve taken the low road and tried to discredit me by saying I said things I did not.
A few others have also commented on how your thinking is skewed. I recommend you read them and consider them the best you can.
I DIDN’T SAY SHE WASN’T BLACK! CAN YOU NOT READ?
i have provided a detail response to your comment but i dont know maybe you have not seen it yet.
So many others such as @tee tee have said the EXACT same thing that i have had to spend 10 years trying to explain to you.
DESCREDIT YOU, i literally copied and pasted the things you posted to avoid doing so. You discredited yourself with the awful things you have been saying, you only need to read @erinma comment.
i addressed everytghing that you posted, i just refuse on utterly ridiculous statements.
sigh* for the last time, she is PARTLY BLACK in the same way she is PARTLY middle eastern, i think you need to reread ALLL the comments i have posted about this or what others above me did because clearly you dont get it.
I am not saying she is not black. end of.
If you believe that my views are dated if that the case, i am now white 🙂
You want me to engage on the definition well i did in previous comments
‘ You said she is not Black and I don’t agree with you holding to some dated concept of Black because it’s more than just a dated definition and for whatever reason you won’t acknowledge or engage about that.’
read @teetee comment above cause she explained it beautifully. if u reread my comment, all i have said is that yes she is PARTLY black. i haven’t said she is not black at all. DO u understand that?
‘If you can’t understand how telling someone they are not Black (when they are and identify as such) is hurtful you are just oblivious and a thoughtless person who does not understand how Black Americans feel about being Black.’
again is america the only country that exists, is this only applicable to black americans?
I HAVE NOT TOLD ANYONE THAT THEY ARE NOT BLACK!
‘You must consider most Americans “not Black” since many if not most of us are “mixed” with other races in our family history…any response to that? ‘
you really didn’t read the last comment did u?
all black people somewhere in their family line will have another racee, not just Americans. this can be seen in the fulani tribe in nigeria. but i still consider black americans black, because in general it genetically will be a very very small percentage.
(‘I’m guessing you won’t because you haven’t answered any of my questions thus far’…… clearly you cant read so yh kl)
i do understand what you are saying, we are defining black in different ways, you seem to be defining black in a social sense, fair enough. but just i do not agree with you does not make my ideas outdated because at the end of the genetics will tell u all ya need ta know.
I may have 4 or 0.4% caucasian genes, does that make me white, can i claim to be white? (serious question)
in the case of cepfeng, yes she is black, but she is also middle eastern, she is not one nor the other she is both. again in the case of the liger she is neither a lion nor a tiger.
I do understand what you are saying, SOCIALLY being black is becoming a blurred line globally. I believe that one day everyone will be so mixed with different races that this discussion will no longer matter.
Please try to understand its not about creating lines or divisions or stripping away a heritage. if you believe that anyone identified as black can be black then that good on ya.
You have not addressed all your false knowledge you posted. so don’t talk to me about not being critical and engaging.
This is what i have been trying to explain. rolls eyes.
@teetee I was sipping much tea and nodding in London, getting all kinds of life. Then #scratch. Nice hair.
Sweetie, you are biracial. mkay… And that’s totally cool. Re-read your comment, black mum, mid east pops. Whomp, you are both no? You know like obama, halle berry, alicia keys, rashida jones, maya rudolph, mariah carey et al can you see where i’m going here? They may identify as black because of the sick one drop (taint of black blood) rule imposed by dead white men to protect and privilege whiteness ABOVE all. #pause #letitsink – but they have parents from different races, like you gorgeous girl #drumroll = biracial!
I don’t want to be rude, but like we say in nigeria, abeg go siddown somewhere.’
alot of people have posted these views, are they ALL outdated and flawed(if so tell them)? because they dont fit with what you believe, or is it an alternative opinion?
Lastly im not out to discredit anyone and i am not a liar either. i have quoted by copying and pasting everything you are saying. So if you fell discredited that’s in you
hope this was satisfactory
peace and love muah 🙂
Quite frankly, the white man invented the concept of race to divide the world, not foreseeing that 100’s of years later, the world would be a teeny bit more mixed than back then. But as we’ve all ashamedly adopted this white man concept, we’re now confused:
“Erm if a person is black, but light skinned with looser textured hair, are they black?”
“Erm, what if they’re Arab, cause technically Arab are originally black right?”
“Are Puerto Ricans black?”
See what the white man done created! Lol. But I digress….
@Puff You are Black. And no one can tell you otherwise. And if your children choose to identify as black, irrespective of the shade of their skin or others telling telling them they are biracial, then they will be black as well.
@Leighton I know this, I’m just truly befuddled by this sort of dialogue with other Black people. I guess I have to chalk it up to the cultural differences of @Jay being Nigerian and British and their small mindedness.
What saddens me is that many of these people are getting “+s” which means there are others that actually prescribe to the notion of denying Black people their right to their heritage. It’s really disturbing and frankly, disgusting to me. But let’s all be honest, we don’t look to the UK or Nigeria for progressing on race so this shouldn’t be shocking. I’m not going to pretend to know the full scope of racial politics in Nigeria or in the UK but if this is any indication they have so much learning to do. I mean this is woefully backward thinking. And there are probably some Americans in here too supporting this nonsense which is probably more hurtful but that’s how the oppression continues to exist. It feeds on small minds and lets them do the dirty work of dividing.
I’ll tell ya though, I’m not going to let any person come in here and gaslight me or anyone else. I just want to be sure to make my statements for the other (perhaps impressionable) light/”mixed” people coming in here so they know there is room at the table for them and they can proudly be the Black person they are and shouldn’t let any hateful divider tell them otherwise. Seriously, why would anyone tell another person they aren’t Black?
What saddens me is that many of these people are getting “+s” which means there are others that actually prescribe to the notion of denying Black people their right to their heritage.
AGAIN? you do not understand what ive been saying, then just say instead of just spouting out all these opinions and distorting my 4 line comment.
‘It’s really disturbing and frankly, disgusting to me. But let’s all be honest, we don’t look to the UK or Nigeria for progressing on race so this shouldn’t be shocking. ‘
This is the most ignorant thing i have ever seen on bglh, have u ever left america? Did you know the UK was one of the first if not the first place to abolish slavery?
Did you know that nigeria as a nation stood up and decided to take independence from white people?
But oh sorry, none of these place are America, therefore it doesnt count. (does this count as hateful? 😛 )
‘I’m not going to pretend to know the full scope of racial politics in Nigeria or in the UK but if this is any indication they have so much learning to do. ‘
You know nothing.
I mean this is woefully backward thinking.
if you wanna see backward thinking simply look at the comment above 🙂
‘ It feeds on small minds and lets them do the dirty work of dividing.’
On this beautiful day you have shown how little you know about black people outside of your own country. how dare you call me small minded for saying a mixed chick is only partly black.
‘Seriously, why would anyone tell another person they aren’t Black?’
would u a tell a white person that is 1/5678 (exaggeration) black that they are black?
fin.
To me, a biracial person can choose to identify what they want to be. I think some of us as Americans are looking through the eyes of how the USA sees what is black or biracial. It is not same in every country and we shouldn’t “force” our perspective on someone whose life and culture may be different than ours.
@Jay Well, you finally attempted to address some of my questions but you really just ended up repeating yourself and not making any point other than you think you are right and there is no way for @cepfeng to be Black.
Here’s a break down of how you have said she is not Black because of her family makeup:
“@cepfeng is not a black woman with light skin tone”
“one more time: SHE IS MIXED RACE, SHE IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE COMPLETELY BLACK!”
So it all still stands, you don’t and won’t define her as Black because of some definition you’ve chosen to prescribe to. You won’t engage in why other than to say “Well she said she is Black and Middle eastern because she’s both she can’t be Black”. Well, I disagree and that has not been how we treat race in America.
Now lets go back to the original post:
“Can I ask though, what is ‘black’ really? Below is a picture of me, I have type hair and am transitioning, yet have green eyes and white skin, a black mother and middle eastern father. Growing up in a white area I experienced horrendous racism that even resulted in beatings etc. You think that it’s just about the shade of your skin? Why do you get to define what ‘black’ is?”
@cepfeng was looking for guidance on defining Black and I gave her my input about how I feel she can embrace being Black and why. I talked about Black being an essence, a shared heritage and fight against oppression. By your points all Black Americans are actual just mixed race and not Black because we have had children with other races. This sort of hierarchy was created by White supremacy and you’ve chosen to feed into that. You are trying to say because she is mixed with something else she cannot be Black and I think that is wrong. Race or “being Black” is a social construct and just like life, race is fluid and your adherence to research determined by White men who certainly did not take into account people intermingling and having children is shortsighted of you.
Your statements did not address @cepfeng or give guidance or insight on her thoughts and feelings which was the original purpose of this conversation so I’ll end with how she did:
“Why do you get to define what ‘black’ is?”
Puff, I was with you until you made those ignorant statements about Nigeria and the UK. This notion that race is an issue only in the United States is one of the reasons people become exasperated with Americans. Any country where you find a mixture of races and ethnicities co-existing, from those in Central and South America to India and many in-between, deals with these same issues. The backdrop might be different, but at the end of the day, it’s prejudice based on skin color. You really should do more reading on other countries.
It’s so true what you guys are saying about the white salons not including us even when they say they do natural hair. I dunno what natural hair they’re talking about. I read online about a salon in London that does natural hair, went there the lady took a look at my hair before me and said the braids lady is on maternity. Which is fair enough. I see a curly white woman in their sipping tea getting her hair done & I was like oooooooh I get it… And then I call back and ask if the braid lady is back and they say the manager will call me back next week. That time has passed where’s my phone call???! It was actually from british curly hair forum (mostly white people) that I got the recommendation- obviously didn’t know it would be like that though!!
The only salons who cut all hair types are owned by BLACK people.
Don’t waste your time going into a salon that has ONLY White owners.
As we say in my home country, these people are less busy! Curly Nikki has the right to publish or promote whoever she pleases. Is #team natural copyrighted? If not, anyone can use that phrase on the www. Nikki doesn’t subscribe to the exclusivity of teamnatural and she doesn’t have to just because she’s black. Don’t read her site, book or watch her appearances if u disagree w her philosophy a la hair. But you can’t dictate to her how to feel, what to do, or who to promote simply cuz she’s black w natural hair. If a white woman submits, tell her THIS site is exclusive to black women. You have the power to do that not dictate to others how to think or act! Some of us have been natural since Hub was a pup n never had any of these expectations u new natural nazis have! We black women are a diverse people with unique experiences n varied backgrounds n opinions! We will not subject ourselves to ur one dimensional thinking, which is no different than racist whites stereotypeing black women. Go ahead n thumbs down! Who cares!
I’m thumbing down because it seems you’ve missed the point, and you’ve used my least favorite term “Natural Nazi”. So yeah.
That’s your right to do so, which I totally respect. I wish de natural Nazis could extend the same respect to others instead of being so damn dictatorial! W Again, black women Are NOT one-dimensional. Now we have people here saying Barack n biracial folks r not black. Who died n left yall in charge! When did yall become the authority of blackness! Like I said before, u people are less busy!
Oh thank you, Jesus!!!! Thank you for speaking up and out! These comments are disturbing.
Really? No difference than how racist white people stereotype us?
Well, considering we’re take up more space in prison than them (whether we did the crime or not), are more likely to get heavier sentencing for the same crime as them, just recently got the right to sit beside them in a diner, were enslaved by them for centuries, could be murdered by them for whistling at white women, could be jailed up until recently for sitting in the front of the bus beside them, are more likely to be victims of hate crimes and police profiling than them, are more targeted for predatory lending then they are, and are generally given less opportunities to grow than they are….are you sure about that?
One thought that immediately comes to mind is the backlash people who are mixed (part black) have gotten on sites like CurlyNikki when they try to talk about their struggles with natural hair acceptance. So when you say that #teamnatural should only be used by black women, “how black” do they have to be?
Obviously can’t speak for everyone but it’s subjective. The backlash may have been that the person had typically quote on quote ‘good hair’ which is seen ALL the time in the media/ blogs vice versa. And it may have been that at that time people with the coarse afro hair felt like they were under-represented. I’m mixed but I have the proper afro hair and I might even feel a little under represented if I always saw one type of hair that is generally seen all the time in media.
If this woman was returning to natural from a relaxer, then I say she’s team natural. Biracial women can definitely have a place, especially now that I know they were also relaxing. My family, like many have biracial members but my Granny, born in 1928, would never allow those with looser curl patterns, then termed “good” hair to get a relaxer. It was unnecessary to her. So, it was to my surprise to see so many women on YouTube and sites like these returning to their 3a/b hair texture. I’m like…Who told y’all to relax??? I’ve learned that societal pressures were on us all though. Especially in the 90’s and 2000’s. Thank God our mind sets are changing.
Biracial women are usually considered Black by default.
Look everyone! I found a Latina blogger who says her mission is to “uplift Latina women around the world. She sums it all up with her motto “When one grows, we all grow.””
The horror! And, oh no, she’s galvanizing even MORE Latina women with her!!
“As the first Latina-focused blogger-brand community, LBC‘s expansion happened fast. So Ana brought together other like minded Latinas to shepherd both the high-quality blogger community and the brand relationships for which LBC rapidly became known.”
Quick, here’s the link: http://www.latinabloggersconnect.com/about-ana-lilian-flores/
Let’s attack her and demand that she talk about the black experience! How DARE she have an online community dedicated to the Latina experience. How RACIST! This is a problem! BGLH is not enough! We need representation there… NOW!
Apparently, it’s only an issue when Black women want to celebrate themselves…but all other spaces are seen as unique and necessary.
I laughed wayyy too hard at this comment. You’re excellent at satire, blacknerdlover.
Oh man, this is worse than I thought… Now ASIAN GIRLS are doing this too?!?! This racist beeyotch says her blog exists to “define the beautiful women that can be found in countries in Asia and all over the world. The Real Asian Beauty is not me. It’s YOU.”
I mean READ THE SUBTEXT guys!!! Clearly by celebrating Asian beauty she’s saying that ALL OTHER WOMEN ARE UGLY! Are we going to sit by and just let this happen?!
Here’s the link: http://www.realasianbeauty.com/2012/06/blog-post_18.html
On three… ATTACK!
This article is so eloquently stated. Natural is natural but when we talk about “our” hair, it needs to be just us. Being pro-black doesn’t make me anti-anything! I love the idea of free place where black women rule and aren’t afraid to say it. Creating that place is my kinky ambition…come join! http://www.kinkyambition.com
Curlynikki IS black, shoot if she’s not black, then I’m NOT black? Come on really?
i totally agree with this article. and i was saying something to this effect to this chick who’d commented on here on another article. Thank you so much for echoing my sentiments.
There are too many pro tap dancing blacks to have rational thought and discussion on our stance on anything here in America.
All I will say is that white people are disgustingly obsessed with Black people. It is scary at this point. We literally can have and do nothing without them dancing their pancake asses to the front to claim it.
I was thinking so too!!!
I was like DAMN, White people got some issues.
Like they are always the FIRST (and only ones) to pounce on ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING we do, they are the most racist towards us, they wanna do everything we do for kicks or cause its cool for now then hop back onto their privilege boat.
Im like, extremely disturbed at this point.
Its freakishly obsessed and utterly scary.
What is up with them gawd.
So I’ve been following and already commented but I just wanted to say to those who are against Black hair being a movement or a political statement, I just don’t get how that is a bad thing.
How awesome is it that Black women can make a statement that supports our culture by just wearing OUR HAIR the way it grows out of our head!! No one else can do it like us and that’s part of what makes me so proud to be Black. Our character is tested everyday and the oppressors try to do everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) to put us down and we’re still here and thriving in a lot of ways. We still have a ways to go but we are so important that just the way we look, the color of our skin, the kink of our hair makes a statement; I’m Black, I’m here; deal with it.” Black Americans have influenced movements across the world. Even in our own country! We’re icons.
No matter how much the oppressor tries to make us feel unimportant we are the most important, American story. It’s hard to appreciate with all the struggle and hate thrown at us and yeah, it means we don’t get the freedom to just do something personally for ourselves without reflecting on our culture but what if we had that freedom? We would just be privileged White people and we all know what horrible stuff they get into. Nah, I’m good, I’ll keep making statements and build my character so I can recognize and fight oppression in all its forms.
um, over 100 comments already? dang…is this a first? this article just posted today!
Some of us have nothing better to do/want to vent with like-minded people (like me lol)
I’m newly graduated and moving, so I’m killing time until I have a job. It’s almost like summertime when I was a kid.
Ahh, it would be for me too, but I’m (avoiding) studying for my MCAT. Kill me noowww lol
Okay this actually made me laugh… this site is called BLACK Girl with Long Hair BUT has featured hispanic women as style icons… Dominican, Puerto Rican, etc that don’t list being black in their introduction. They are not black and do not identify as black but it’s okay for them to be featured because they are not white? That’s all I got from this article. That site is called Curly Nikki, NOT Black Nikki but this site is clearly called BLACK Girl with Long Hair. Why then are you featuring women that our not black, that do not identify as being black, etc? What about exclusivity then? To me that seems like racism. We can allow you on #teamnatural as long as you’re not white.
RE: BUT has featured hispanic women as style icons… Dominican, Puerto Rican
FYI: None of the cultures that you are listed are RACES…There are black hispanics in the African diaspora!
Some needs to post a map so folks can see the entire picture of Transatlantic Slave trades. It didn’t just put Black Africans here in America
The women we’ve featured identify as Afro-Latina, if not publicly in their features, then to us behind the scenes. We make sure to communicate to all our potential style icons that the objective of our website is a celebration of the black aesthetic. We have never allowed features of Afro Latina women who were distancing themselves from their black blood, and trust, we’ve had to scrap a few potential features on that basis. If you read the Afro Latina features we’ve done, many talk about the struggle of letting go of a Eurocentric ideal, embracing their black heritage and embracing a tighter texture of hair. Also, we’ve never featured anyone who was not either full/majority black, or of close/immediate black descent. So, for example, you won’t see any East Indian or South Asian women on this blog. Our primary objective is the black experience.
What about someone like me, then? Does my light skin make a difference? I;ve been beaten up, mocked by teachers and students for years, relaxed, got burns and am now transitioning. I have a black mum. Mixed people struggle too.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/DSC8789-1.jpg[/img]
Mixed women are featured a lot on this site. Go ahead with your transition and continue to learn how to care for your kinks from this site…it’ll help..trust, it helped me.
Ah no, it doesn’t. We’ve featured many women who are your complexion. Since our inception 6 years ago, we’ve consistently featured bi-racial and multi-racial women. We’ve gotten a lot of flak for this over the years. But we do it all the time because we consider them an important part of our community.
Here are a few: https://bglh-marketplace.com/2013/11/ana-3b-natural-hair-style-icon/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2013/05/angela-3bc-natural-hair-style-icon/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2013/04/casey-natural-hair-style-icon/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2012/11/bernadette-3bc-natural-hair-style-icon/
And one of our style icons even wrote an article about the need for the natural community to recognize the mixed girl struggle. We got a lot of flak for that too, but we stood behind it because we agreed.
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2013/11/im-mixed-i-have-natural-hair-and-yes-i-understand-the-struggle/
We have never been in the business of determining who is “black enough” to appear BGLH. But that’s not what the original article is about, is it? It’s about people who aren’t black who feel they deserve representation on a site that is dedicated to representation of black women and women of black descent.
Rii, do you know what racism is?
So…you do know you can be Hispanic or Latina and Black too, right? Hispanic or Latino is an ethnicity, not a race. It’s not by some magic that the Hispanic and Latina women featured on the site came out of the womb with 3c/4a-4c.
White people are included: they’re the direct cause of the movement.
Go read a book girl. Sounds like it could help you out.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/s-TEMPLE-RUB-large.jpg[/img]
Dominicans, Puerto Rican’s, Hispanics period are not a races. Just like Latino,the term Hispanic comprises many ethnic groups. A diverse, multiracial and generally racially mixed. They are black not white. And from what i’ve seen on this site, they were introduced as afro Latinas so i’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Dominican and Puerto Rican are nationalities, not races. Hispanic/Latina is an expansive ethnicity, not a race. Latino/a people can be black, white, mestizo, all sorts, just like Americans can be black, white, Asian, Native, all sorts. Just because someone doesn’t explicitly say that they’re black doesn’t mean they don’t identify as black; it could mean that they think it’s so obvious that they’re black that they don’t feel they have to spell it out.
Hello ladies,
This has been a really great and engaging discussion thus far! Some great points made on all sides. I just wanted to poke my head back in to clarify a few things;
1. In Christina’s article (which I co-sign 100%) she affirmed the need for communities that are pro-textured-hair REGARDLESS of race/ethnicity. And I feel the same way. I do think that there are some issues that all curly-haired women can gather around, regardless of their ethnic/racial background.
2. HOWEVER, she states that there is still a necessity for spaces that are dedicated to black women talking about their unique experience.
3. When we say that #teamnatural is for black women, we are not saying that white women can’t benefit from reading BGLH. They do and they have! A small, but significant percentage of our readership and our social media followers are white women! We welcome them to observe and learn. However, we don’t feel that it’s our responsibility and duty to represent them in this space. And that’s not a diss to them. It’s because we feel that black women are so UNDERrepresented almost everywhere, that that is where our efforts would be best put to use.
4. Let’s not forget that NaturallyCurly is still the biggest game in town!! It’s a community that is openly multi-racial — and has been for pretty much all of its history — and it currently is one of the oldest, and definitely the most popular and most lucrative natural hair website online. So let’s not pretend that there isn’t a large and bustling multi-racial textured hair community already in existence. NaturallyCurly has a budget and a marketing reach to die for — far more than any website owned and operated by a black woman.
Thank God…this means that we will have at least one website that solely for black women hair talk.
I need to be educated…what I don’t understand are the non-American Black women who don’t understand the need for exclusivity for the natural hair movement? Black woman, globally have been relaxing. Weren’t there some underlying societal and psychological reasons for that also? So, wearing natural kinky hair was always acceptable globally but many Black women decided to relax anyway? Someone please help me understand why some don’t get this and the history of the globalization of the relaxer and then the globalization of returning natural.
They’re straight-up lying, especially any West Africans saying that lol In many places that were colonized in the past (like Nigeria, where I’m from) natural hair is acceptable if it’s down your back or braided up (buzzed if attend a boarding school). It’s considered “normal/boring”, but straighter, longer hair is considered “special”. When I went back a few years ago, even strangers would ask what my plans were for my hair (braids? relaxer? weave? whaat?). My own mama thought I was insane for stopping the relaxer, but now that it’s waistlength she proudly exclaims that I get it from her side of the family (ironically she’s been natural under the weaves for my whole life bless her heart lmao) You still can’t get a good job (like at the bank) with an medium-size Afro. Their media doesn’t really accentuate natural hair either, so… Even on here, I remember a girl in Nigeria was featured and she said the same thing, that it wasn’t seen as professional.
And don’t even get me started on some Afro-Latinas talkin bout Pelo malo or some Black people in Europe living in countries that celebrate Zwarte Piet talkin bout I don’t see the issue lol have a seat!
Hi, I am Jamaican….and I do understand and advocate the need for exclusivity for the natural hair community. And yes the reason why most black women world wide relaxes her hair is because of the negativity that was associated with our hair in the past and still is today. There are some non-American black women out their who don’t get it, but trust me a lot of us like myself do.
Thank you CherryBOMB and JAgirl! I just knew this had to be bigger because why would a relaxer be so globalized. That’s why this movement is so very important because the standard of beauty needs to change globally and not just here in the U.S. The exclusivity needs to stand because as I keep saying, it has not yet come to fruition. We have a ways to go so that our hair is deemed acceptable, professional and attractive in all countries and all aspects of life. Let’s keep supporting one another, locally and internationally. Let us not let this die.
Wearing natural hair has NEVER been globally acceptable and it is not restricted to the US. I am a british citizen of nigerian descent and i have experienced the backlash of having natural hair from both cultures.When i first becam natural, my mother and sisters more or less ridiculed me for not relaxing my hair. It is only now that my hair is longer than it is now seen as beautiful, this is similar to what cherryBomb was saying. Even being raised in the uk, natural hair was not seen as something beautiful by Black people, although it has always fascinated the white people here. It is something that was dicriminated against by our own race. It is only when the natural hair movement has become popular that it is now accepted.
What the black women have been through in the US is the same EVERYWHERE. the degradation and ridicule of black women appearance is a deep rooted into our race globally/
that is because even though non-american black women do relax their hair due to colonization, they are not aware as to why they do it like black american women. black american women are ware that they are relaxing their hair to imitate the european standard of beauty but non-american blacks are doing it just because. its like a thing to do now, like piercing a girls ears at birth, that its a normal thing all black girls must do. even though the natural movement has spread to some african countries, they are mostly doing it because its happening in america and they also want to be part of something new. i went to ghana 2years ago and visited a salon to wash my hair. they immediately figured i was from abroad because at that time the only girls they saw with natural hair were coming from abroad. but as of 6months ago its suddenly a thing, with natural hair salons popping up all over the place and shops selling natural hair products from america.
black americans need to understand that even though we are all black we all do not have the same frame of mind nor do we think the same way. and that is because we have had very different experiences. most african countries are still very homogeneous. its not like in america where there is black and white, but under black you have 50 different variations of black people. in ghana, you most likely look the next person. there is a smaller percentage of light skin and biracial girls. same thing with hair. the general population has type 4 hair (as far as i am concerned). if you see a girl with type 3 hair, she is most likely biracial. there are parts of ghana, especially the rural areas, where women dont even bother relaxing their hair or wear weave. america is a true melting pot because you see so many different variations. this website is proof of that. you can have darkskinned women with type 3 hair and a biracial girl with green eyes with type 4 hair. so when non-american black women hear things like this, they dont understand, its lack of knowledge and awareness. the idea of discrimination is weird. i mean really what job in ghana wouldnt hire you because you are darkskinned with a “black” sounding name when that is 90-95% of the population? i hope what i am saying makes sense.
to a non-american black women the natural hair movement is exactly that, natural hair, i.e. no relaxer. nothing more, nothing less.
i do want to address the people saying natural hair is unacceptable back home. back home looks and appearances are VERY important especially when you come from affluent families. having natural isnt the problem, the problem is how it is styled. in all honesty some natural styles that black american women rock will not be approved back home. i feel like the women who go home frequently and women there understand that better then those who go less frequently and black americans. im natural, no one in my family cares because as long as i dont look like a “madwoman who just rolled out of bed who wants to humiliates the family name” (my aunts words not mine). i have many friends who are natural back home and trust me, no one cares because of the way they style it.
and concerning natural hair in ghanaian (or any african country’s) media, mark my words, let america cast a woman with natural hair (type 4) as their main actress in big movies, they will follow.
all in all, do i think there should be exclusivity in the natural hair movement? yes, yes i do. and i do think ALL black women should be behind it. i say this because whether we are aware of it or not, we have been brainwashed, all of us. i went natural cuz i was lazy and in university and having my hair done was expensive (before i even found out there was a natural hair movement). i was recently asked by a friend if i would relax my hair again and after carefully thinking about it i said no. it is not because i am anti-relaxer but because there is no reason to. i dont want to think there is a problem with my hair. it is about self-acceptance, looking at yourself in the mirror everyday and being okay with the way you are without the need to manipulate it especially to fit into someones idea of what beauty is. especially when that manipulation is tedious (i am referring to both relaxing and this obsession with curls). why should we exclude white women? you cant be part of a movement that is fighting against your standard of beauty. yes they may want to also accept themselves and stop straightening their hair, but they dont have the same psychological problems. white women are accepted anywhere they go straight hair or not. even with their curly hair, they are still considered far more beautiful and desirable than black women. we are barely accepted in their circles, why cant we have ours? they can call it what they want, reverse racism or whatever, i dont care, let black women have something they can call their own. (i may be biased about this because i got rejected for a job today and found out this evening that it was because that place didnt hire blacks). so no you cant sit with us lol.
let us have our own and continue to support one another. the natural hair movement has brought black women into the spotlight and has helped many of them succeed and we need even more. if we let white women in, Lord knows they might take over and we will have absolutely nothing left and eventually get bored with it and dump it in the trash and move on to find the next big thing. we may be all women and may share the some (i said some) of the same struggles but please let us have this.
fin.
Thank you Ij for your very thorough explanation regarding this matter. Many women on this site has so intellectually and eloquently explained over and over the reason exclusivity is needed. I don’t understand what some aren’t understanding? Do they simply disagree or aren’t trying to understand the psychological implications behind the need for this movement? Black women globally needs to be unconditioned, so the need for this movement. It doesn’t make sense for an entire race of women to put a harsh chemical on their scalps to alter the texture of their hair worldwide! That is a problem and we’re here to encourage each other to stick it out and accept accept accept your texture. I say accept three times because this repetition is needed in order for us to truly accept it. Why can’t people grasp this?
I am going to speak for myself on this one
I myself wasn’t aware of the psychological implications until a couple of years ago. I feel as though my eyes have been opened and found myself asking a lot of questions. Why was I relaxing my hair? What is so difficult about natural hair? I really needed to take a step back and reevaluate how I looked at myself and the standards society has pushed on us. I have had friend make comments about their hair in its natural state and it bothered me because this is who we are. I had a friend call me dark skin and herself light skin because she is a shade lighter than me. And it made me realize that even if we not be aware on a conscious level, those issues run so deep within us and has scarred us. It’s scary that something that happened such a long time ago still lives within us today.
I have never been part of the natural hair community and haven’t really followed it. But recently realized its importance. It really is more than hair. It is about ourselves, being ourselves and accepting ourselves and stop trying to fit in with a society that has made it very clear that even when we try and fit in by straightening our hair and bleaching our skin they will still look at us like we are worth nothing. And that is a sad truth.
I kind of understand those who are saying we should include them. If it had been a couple of years ago I would have said the same thing. I wouldn’t have understood what the big deal was. Some black people feel that the best way to get over racism and discrimination is to give them the love the never gave us. To show them how is should be done. You know, the whole be bigger person thing.
But living in America and Canada for the last couple of years I have realized this we are one thing needs to stop. We are all people but we are different and those difference shouldn’t be ignored. They need to be acknowledged.
White women don’t have a problem (yes there is patriarchy but that’s another topic). Like I said even in their curly state they are still more accepted and considered far more beautiful than black women. If they want to start a natural hair movement so badly, they should have their own. Because you know we aren’t part of anything of theirs. They don’t support us and they don’t understand what it’s like for us. We need to realize that being the bigger person hasn’t helped us. We are still the bottom of the totem pole after all these years. Nobody is saying we should hate them and not live in harmony with them. But we deserve our space, we deserve to live in a way that is ours.
The natural hair movement aim to resolve an identity crisis black women have. What identity crisis do white women have? Who who calls you ratchet and a monkey before they get to know you? How does the media misrepresent you? Tell me how it is so hard for you to travel without being searched 2 or 3 times? Tell me how the Donald sterlings of the world have no problem taking your money but call you less than dogs behind closed doors? Tell me how your own men can sometimes disrespect and devalue you? Tell me how hard you have to work to get an ounce of respect in the work place from your boss and coworkers to prove you defy the stereotype? Please tell me. Or you think just because you no longer straighten your hair you and I are now even?!
Exclusivity of natural hair movement for black women means supporting and empowering one another. About uplifting each other and encouraging ourselves to keep going even with all our problems. To have our voices heard by other people. To be accepted and to prove others wrong. It is about acknowledging our differences, I’m black, you’re white nothing is going to change that and I need society to see me as every bit worth of the woman I am. And this movement is where I get that support when the outside world tells me otherwise. That’s why it’s important.
Yes Lj…this is a self identity movement. It’s not just about hair. Thank you.
Come on, be honest. I’m not from Ghana, but I know enough Ghanaians to know that what you’re saying is not entirely true. I never said it wasn’t accepted, I said it was normal or average (which is a step above how it’s viewed in the US) but straighter hairstyles (even box braids) generally considered more special. This mindset comes from colonization. Many of us gained our independence in the 50’s and 60’s, which was 2 seconds ago in the grand scheme of things. European ideals still affect us. Do your family members in Ghana wear Ankara to their corporate job, or do they wear a suit? Why is it only in the countryside that they don’t bother with weave? Why is natural hair deemed ‘Hard’ when it wasn’t before colonization/westernization? Why would a person with anything other than type 4 hair be ‘most likely biracial’, when, even though a large section of my hair is clearly 4A/3C, and almost ALL of my sister’s hair is 4A/3C, I can prove that we are full-blooded Nigerians to at least the 1800’s? You know the answers to these questions, we don’t exist in a vacuum.
And btw I’ve been to Accra, and they treated white/non-Black tourists like royalty, but not so much my clearly African family, soo…
CherryBOMB
I agree with you. I don’t know which part of post my post makes you think otherwise. I did say we have all been brainwashed; of course that means straighter styles are considered special. Not only with hair but who’s we run things like you mentioned how we dress for corporate jobs. But like you said which I agree with, natural hair is more okay than it is in America, which was what I was trying to explain and the reasons I thought influenced that. I never said things are perfect or ideal back home, especially in the cities.
And concerning my comment about hair type, I did generalize and say “as far as I am concerned”. There aren’t enough natural women back home, so of course I don’t know if maybe there are more types. But from what I have seen from my friends and family, both men and women, the only type I have seen so far is type 4. LOL you don’t need to prove anything about your heritage, I take your word for it. And I do believe you. The main point I was trying to get across was that people in African countries tend to be more homogeneous than black Americans. I could be very wrong. Maybe if enough women back home go natural and grow out their hair, we may see different types. But from what I’ve seen from my travels, I find that there are far more variation of black women in America and Canada (and even in South Africa) than women back home.
I hope I cleared a few things.
I was talking about the parts of your post like this:
“[black american women] relax their hair to imitate the European standard of beauty but non-american blacks are doing it just because.”
But then you said:
“I say this because whether we are aware of it or not, we have been brainwashed, all of us.”
I found this contradictory. That’s the part I was talking about, but I see that you explained yourself to the commenter below me. I agree with everything else you said lol And the only reason I talked about my own hair and ancestry is that Africans make that biracial comment all the time to me, and the first thing they say is “you’re not full African then” (it doesn’t help that my names don’t sound Nigerian either -___- lol).
‘to a non-american black women the natural hair movement is exactly that, natural hair, i.e. no relaxer. nothing more, nothing less.’
Cmon now, dont be silly. Fair enough black africans may not get it as much, but what about black british? (or black people out of africa in general) i hope you know that slavery did happen here as well, and the problems that black americans face is also an issue here for a lot of black people. You need to be mindful of your terminology.
You’re right I do need to be mindful of my terminology. I was trying to answer juanicole617 question so I tried to use her terminology. I was mainly referring to black Africans and didn’t realize the term non-American black women implied more than that. I’m sorry.
The natural hair movement does already include white people when you discuss the facts and how they contributed to the oppression and degradation of the black people and our hair. Now , because like in everything else, we were able to recognize that history and debunk the negative things they’ve portrayed us to be and how are natural hair has played apart of this. I say no because at the end of the day, they still can’t and will never be able to relate because they don’t possess the kind of hair that allows them to relate (like watching a white person with locs, forcing something to work when it really doesn’t fit). If they want to be apart of a movement, debunk the negative stereotypes and admit to the issues and that to me, will be a start #alwayslookingtocapitalizeoffblackfolks
#NoHate
Why are you interpreting this as hate? This is a movement. Yes, we can all learn from the variations of kinks to curls but the movement is ours. Movements are forever, they’re purposeful. The purpose of this movement has not yet come to fruition. Once it has then others will be accepted because the movement has fulfilled its purpose and it would be time to expand and move on to tackle other issues.
@Vera
Soooo…Black women wanting something for US is considered as hate? Then what do you call the persistent EXCLUSION of Black women from predominately white spaces?
Isn’t hate the reason Black women even started the movement?
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Rather than throwing out hashtag bumperstickers, why don’t you answer Dananana’s excellent question?
“You’re right. There’s nothing wrong with being inclusive. So why don’t we DEMAND inclusion in primarily White spaces before we start including them in ours? Or do we always have to tell them yes while they’re telling us no?”
I think it’s fascinating that when posed this question, none of you apologists ever respond with answer. Instead, you deflect and return to your default–that somehow it’s black women’s responsibility and duty to turn over their agency to the same white women who are fine with excluding us in mainstream publications and in mainstream spaces every single day of the week.
Geesh, we are just now getting to a point where we can even *find* our correct foundation colors in mainstream cosmetic lines. We haven’t overcome yet, so I’m not understanding this burning desire some black women have to rationalize your own erasure.
Yes, I am all about letting curly haired women of all races to #TeamNatural. We can learn from each other, and there’s nothing wrong with being inclusive.
You’re right. There’s nothing wrong with being inclusive. So why don’t we DEMAND inclusion in primarily White spaces before we start including them in ours? Or do we always have to tell them yes while they’re telling us no?
Have you read any of the other comments? There are all sorts of spaces dedicated to different groups and like the article stated there are places like Naturally Curly and now Curly Nikki where you can get a catch-all of curly/kinky hair. Why would it possibly seem like a problem for Black women with kinky/curly/coily hair to want a space to talk about our hair and how we embrace it?
The frustrating part about other races and namely White people (because in this country they have the power) joining in is that too often they appropriate and then ignore all the cultural significance of us creating this space. If they gave any indication that they were trying to educate themselves it would be a different story. Instead they want to throw around a hashtag, feel cool and call it a day.
There should be a different word than exclusive when an oppressed group creates a space for themselves. Maybe protective and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Because whites aren’t inclusive of us, and aren’t even interested in trying to understand our struggle. I walked into a white hair salon with another black friend of mine who had an appointment. The lady at the counter took one look at us and before we could finish a sentence she basically kicked us out. While she was very polite she apologized if she sounded offensive but said there was no way anyone at the shop could work with our hair. Mind you we had already talked to someone on the phone who said otherwise. She wouldn’t even give us a chance to explain.
Yeah, let’s be include everybody up in this….and forget their the reason we started it.
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If it’s exclusivity we seek, then we need to use an exclusive term. Natural nails, natural boobs, natural eyelashes..(none of those adjectives denote race. Natural is natural) Now #TeamBlackHair or #TeamAfro are labels only we can hold the copyright to!
Exactly!!!!
some hateful comments up in here..sad.
And not allowing Black women the same shine in Mainstream media isn’t evidence of hatred?
You act like we’re grace mainstream magazine covers, movie and tv roles (that aren’t stereotypical/slave-oriented/secondary), and literally just about everything else on the regular.
We’re not being inclusive or fair, but the same two black people get cast in blockbusters as background characters (if they decide to cast black people at all)? The internet damn near broke in outrage when the role of Rue was given to a black girl. We’re not being inclusive, but Lupita N’yongo is the only dark-skinned, natural Black woman to gain mainstream success in….forever.
We’re not being inclusive or fair, but “ethnic hair care” remains a little tiny section in the grocery store to this day, despite the fact we give the most money to hair care companies.
But yeah girl, it’s hella hate in these comments.
An aside – Rue is actually written as black in the novel, so the backlash against the young actress is even more racist and ridiculous.
And Katnis Everdeen is described in the novel as someone with olive skin and gray eyes–that could describe ethnic women around the world.
Although she may have struggled with her hair texture, she hasn’t had to struggle against eurocentric standards of beauty like black and biracial women have because she is the standard. And she needs to respect that black women need an exclusive community as a safe space to express ourselves, because despite some progress our hair, and even our skin and bodies are in no way fully accepted by the mainstream.
I love the conversation this started but why did curly NIKKI do it? The fact this THING said its curly Nikki not BLACK NIKKI says it all about this THING character smh.
Not only that, but another site covering this topic titled the article “CurlyNikki receives backlash for featuring a white woman”…I don’t see that she did, it seems to me only lillywhite716 faced backlash…And has CN even responded?? Can any CN followers comment on that?
I blocked all things CN related from my browser, but another website that I use says she’s ignored all of this.
I’m wondering how she can ignore this…this is about her site…unless she’s really hands off and it’s completely run by naturallycurly.com.
She and the young lady featured got backlash. The girl did respond graciously, but CN didn’t really. Nor should she have, IMHO. The site is called Curly Nikki, not Black Hair Nikki.
…Sarah is that you girl? You enjoying your 15 minutes from the CN interview? How’s your scrunchie? 😉
It’s Sarah! Same verbiage and everything!
Sarah is that you?
DAMN you really eating up that attention.
I read from a screenshot that you said you ENJOYED CREATING CONTROVERSY.
That is fucked up right there.
Just rubbing it in your privilege.
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@CoilsOn89
CurlyNikki is now white owned and has been that way since 2007 i believe. They are a part of white owned hair campaign called Textured Media. So representing some entitled white chick with curly hair was bound to happen. This is our cue to no longer take that site seriously.
#alwaysgivingawayourshit
what did i miss?
You have summed up my sentiments EXACTLY! THANK YOU!!
I feel like this is becoming a case of people trying to one up each other. You can’t illegitimize someone else’s struggle to accept herself because your struggle has been longer and more difficult. I understand that we as black women have unique difficulties accepting our natural hair because of the societal stigma associated with wearing textured hair natural. Because of this, I agree with the idea that the natural movement should be just for black women. What I don’t agree with is people being condescending to this girl about her own issues. Everyone has struggles with self-acceptance, regardless of race or hair texture. It’s like telling someone they’re not allowed to be sad about their sprained ankle when you have broken both legs. Both of you have the right to feel the way you do, and although it’s obvious who is going through the harder situation, it’s wrong and inappropriate for you to tell the other person that they have no right to feel sad or distressed. This sort of mentality only causes negativity. I personally don’t think that curlynikki was an appropriate forum for this women to share her issues. However, we need to accept that she does have her own issues with self esteem related to her hair,and that trivializing other’s struggles (or being rude,as some, NOT MOST were)won’t help any of us. I think that it’s wonderful whenever anyone learns to have self-love and embrace their own uniqueness.
Yes, she had her struggles …but this article is about the exclusivity of #teamnatural in regards to the natural hair movement. You agree this movement is exclusive to Black women. I didn’t read the CN blog about this woman but that is what she needs to understand and RESPECT. She can go ahead and stop using heat and all that good stuff but RESPECT what you are not truly apart of.
Nobody is condescending the girl. She knows the history, and why she did what she did was wrong. She didn’t care. Nobody is calling her ugly names, just giving her facts. Just laying down everybody somebody does something wrong or inappropriate is enable and is counterproductive.
That would be like me going onto a site for Asian people struggling to accept mono lids and talking about my experiences with it. It’s a hot button issue for them, just ike hair is for us. ME accepting my mono lids is nowhere near the same thing as them accepting theirs, and it is insensitive to do so in the first place.
i am confused as to why conversations such as this keep coming up. why must there be a #teamblacknatural or #teamafrolatinonatural or any other racially specific #teamnatural? why can’t we all just be natural and learn from each other on how to care for curly/kinky/coily hair? correct me if i am wrong but last i checked not everyone who have curly/kinky/coily hair are afro-latino or black. curly/kinky/coily hair is not discriminative nor should the people that have that type of hair texture. i would think that afro-latino and black people would want to share (we all do know how to share right?) what we know about hair textures and hair care with other curly/kinky/coily haired people. perhaps i am wrong. perhaps the fact that it seems we just want something to call our own is what is really driving this conversation today. but these conversations are exhausting. why must we keep arguing one way or the other? first there was segregation between the races then there is further segregation between the hair types (loose curly vs 4 a/b/c naturals) and now… NOW there’s a fight between the races about who can claim #teamnatural! get over it! be glad people don’t want to put harsh chemicals in their hair. be glad people want to have a healthier life and actually take care of their mind, body and soul. educate not discriminate. stop worrying about our position in the natural hair movement and/or our ownership of a HASHTAG! it’s a dern hashtag for the love of everything natural/curly/kinky/coily! make up a new one if the previous is becoming too saturated for your liking. no one stops anyone from doing that.
Ask white/straight haired people, not us. I wasn’t aware that black people invented segregation, I thought it was their idea. Please enlighten me smh. We don’t want team natural, we need it. Go open a copy of Vogue magazine and count the number of Black people. Now count those with natural hair. It should take like 2min. I’ll wait *sits*
What troubles me the most about this post is that “The Marginalized” our now marginalizing others…..makes no sense. It’s sad to say, but many black women still suffer from an identity crisis. That we are literally having this discussion is quite telling. I came on this website to learn tips about how to treat and take care of my hair…not to join a “movement” that excludes others. Sorry if I differ.
Who said they can’t take tips? Anyone and everyone can consume info from the natural hair movement without being a part of it or laying claim. I know plenty of people who do this, Black and otherwise. You join a group because you share a common experience or struggle. For example I wouldn’t join a club for people with dyslexia because it took me a min. to learn to read. My ideas/opinions would be irrelevant. Yeah we both struggled but our experience wasn’t/isn’t the same. And someone who is dyslexic may take tips but not join, because it’s not much of an issue for them. That doesn’t discredit the struggle of others. And btw this girl’s going natural was taking out her scrunchie. CN was trolling us, I know it lol
#TeamAfrolicious 🙂
Nice!
The British were GREAT at taking over a country, then getting the people to become inferior to their fellow countryman. Think about Northern Ireland, India or Egypt and the term First Knight. These attitudes and feelings are NOT just a black thing. I presently live in a place (it is in the New England area of the country which had a long time to develop these bad attitudes) where curlies really feel superior. I will not even post the things old ladies and young girls have said to me. Consequently, if I didn’t know my world history I would lead a revolution against these people. However, I do it and I feel sorry for their lack of love. People don’t learn how to act wrong and mean over night, it took years, or even a lifetime to feel superior.
So I suggest we all need to pay attention to world cultures. What’s going on with us is not an isolated situation. Think about it, to me all Irish people look alike and that (11? Stages) cast system in India is crazy. We only got skin color and hair texture. And one day that will not matter either. So girls, wear you. We are Americans and what makes us different is that we will work this out without any bloodshot. But we kinkys still have to figure out how to moisturize and style 😉
Bloodshed
I have never commented on this site but couldn’t help myself. This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on this site, and I’ve been a faithful reader since its inception. Thank you and bravo!
Whenever a movement is done to uplift a minority, white people always want to join in. White people always dilute the purpose of a movement to accommodate their own standards and they never know the history of why a movement is being done. One curly girl website said that “Sarah’s opposers are making CLAIMS of colored women receiving discrimination in the past for their hair.” The curly girl website doesn’t even acknowledge that there is a European standard of beauty that many are dying to achieve.
I would have no problem with this Sarah girl embracing her curls, but to claim that she knows the struggle of African (descent) woman is a whole new story all because a boy made fun of her in pre-k. Sarah even acknowledges on her social media accounts that she did the article to cause controversy among the natural hair community, meaning the girl knows exactly what she’s doing. She wanted to start a conversation about a white girl being natural and now that she sees the majority of the natural community are against her, she’s trying to play victim (thanks to the white privilege society has “blessed” her with). She refers to black women as “they and those” and still doesn’t acknowledge the struggles of the black women because racism ended 50 years ago. The sad thing is that you have black girls defending this girl when at the end of the day you know a white girl wouldn’t cape for a black girl if she claim to knew the “struggles of having straight hair”. I swear sometimes black people can be their own enemies with this Uncle Tom mentality so many share.
I believe the natural hair community should be for anybody with African blood in them (not a 1/65 black). Meaning biracial people can join since I know many who’s mothers permed their hair and ridiculed them for not coming out with 2b hair and coming out with 3c hair.
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Whenever a movement is done to uplift a minority, white people always want to join in. White people always dilute the purpose of a movement to accommodate their own standards and they never know the history of why a movement is being done. One curly girl website said that “Sarah’s opposers are making CLAIMS of colored women receiving discrimination in the past for their hair.” The curly girl website doesn’t even acknowledge that there is a European standard of beauty that many are dying to achieve.
I would have no problem with this Sarah girl embracing her curls, but to claim that she knows the struggle of African (descent) woman is a whole new story all because a boy made fun of her in pre-k. Sarah even acknowledges on her social media accounts that she did the article to cause controversy among the natural hair community, meaning the girl knows exactly what she’s doing. She wanted to start a conversation about a white girl being natural and now that she sees the majority of the natural community are against her, she’s trying to play victim (thanks to the white privilege society has “blessed” her with). She refers to black women as “they and those” and still doesn’t acknowledge the struggles of the black women because racism ended 50 years ago. The sad thing is that you have black girls defending this girl when at the end of the day you know a white girl wouldn’t cape for a black girl if she claim to knew the “struggles of having straight hair”. I swear sometimes black people can be their own enemies with this Uncle Tom mentality so many share.
I believe the natural hair community should be for anybody with African blood in them (not a 1/65 black). Meaning biracial people can join since I know many who’s mothers permed their hair and ridiculed them for not coming out with 2b hair and coming out with 3c hair.
I’m all about welcoming curly haired sister
I think this is an issue of certain people seeing this movement as a “sister hood no matter your race” type thing and really its not. I love the fact that White women look at the natural hair movement for inspiration to drop the flat iron, relaxers( they do get them) , perms and hair dye. But a white presence in “#team natural” should be very minimal at best. Go ahead comment respectfully, ask for tips, heck post a pic to show that our tips helped but honestly why would a White woman who’s pictures pretty much grace most beauty magazines, blogs and websites be upset because she couldn’t get her hair featured on a black women’s hair blog? What is happening here? Its not so much about who specifically is allowed but ultimately realizing that this IS a narrow focus on purpose. Its the reason why I don’t really pick up mainstream beauty magazines any more. I use to get so angry and sad that Cosmo, Lucky, and Haapar’s Bazzar didn’t feature enough black women or tips about our hair and makeup. But then I realized those mags WERE NOT PUBLISHED FOR ME OR THOSE WHO LOOK LIKE ME. I wasn’t there target audience.When I paused and let that soak in I was no longer angry and sad. I stopped buying them and went off to find publications that suited my needs. Its the same thing with team natural. White women You aren’t the target audience of this movement. Why be offended? We have been excluded for years and very few have sought to change that.
My question for all of these black women who are so offended and heart broken that the majority of us don’t want WW in these spaces is this: How does featuring white women in the natural hair movement BENEFIT black woman. What exactly is it that their whiteness will do to strengthen and improve this movement that was created by and for black women? I’d really like the sisters defending this WW colonization and calling black women racist, to answer that question. How does it benefit black women?
It doesn’t benefit us. But white woman do not understand the issues we face when it comes to hair and for the to understand it takes a while. So telling white women to not use the term will just cause confusion and will just make us come across aggressive for no reason
Exactly but that is the point hun- “it makes is come across as aggressive for no reason”. So it is safe to say that in order for a white person to join the natural hair community they would need to have an understanding of the context of the movement. And if they still want to proceed they can but when we respond in disdain it won’t be seen as us coming across aggressively.
Your concern is with the feelings and the comfort of white women. I don’t give a damn about how they feel, the natural hair community is not for them and it does not belong to them. If they’re in tears on the floor because of it, I could not care less. I care about how black women feel about our beauty and our hair. I want black women to feel good about ourselves. I’m not wasting my time worrying about white women’s feelings when the entire beauty industry is designed to put them on a pedestal at the expense of black women.
We are not here to serve white women and it’s not our job to teach them about our hair or theirs.
To me educating more women on looking after their natural hair matters more than trying to retain a hashtag. Maybe it’s because I’m African so my mentality is slightly different, I don’t need a hashtag to give me a sense of identity and belonging. It’s just a hashtag at the end of the day what will make a real difference is more and more black women embracing their natural hair
You do realize that this about more than a hashtag, right?
I don’t care about their feelings. They trot out every excuse in the book to keep black people out of nearly everything and now they’re mad because they can’t use the term natural hair. They can stay mad They will live. Trust me.
They can create their own spaces to uplift their little oppressed selves and each sacred ringlet on their head up out of the shadows of black women. They just won’t do it on the backs of black women. Those days are long gone and they will deal.
If it’s all just no big deal, if it’s just a hashtag with no meaning, then why are you on here arguing for WW to be included in the natural hair movement? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
Like I said, WW and whatever hair issues they have are none of my business and I simply don’t care what they go through with their hair. I care about Black women. And for you to even suggest that we not only take the time to teach them, but walk on egg shell around these women so as not to be seen as “aggressive” is some sick slave minded nonsense. Don’t come on here and lecture black women that we need to be in service white women, educating them about hair and coddling their feelings. How dare you. If you want to play Mammy, then that’s your business. But leave the rest of us out of it.
You are clearly taking what I said out of context. #TeamNatural is not copyrighted we have no right to dictate who can use it and who can’t. Everyone has a to right to call themselves natural regardless of race. The term natural hair whether you like it or not is not exclusive to black women hence other races have a right to use it. I dont understand why this is so hard to comprehend.
We can’t stop other people claiming to be natural, If they feel they are natural then what can we really do.
Hi Roo,
I totally understand what you’re saying. Being part of the natural hair movement is about learning to love & care for your hair the way it grows out of your head. For Black women and women of Afro descent this may or may not be a more “involved” process since we have literally have to re-program the way we think and feel about our appearance. My opinion #TeamNatural, as it relates to hair, is not necessarily exclusive to Black women. If others don’t agree, thats OK…that’s their opinion. Like you said we can’t dictate who is and is not allowed to be a part of the natural hair movement. #TeamBlack&Natural sounds more exclusive just like the name Black Girl Long Hair sounds exclusive. Its wonderful to have forum that celebrates the beauty of women of color, and it is a much needed space. However, some of the comments on here are a discouraging/disappointing because of the negative tone/words.
Thank you Jo thats exactly what I meant. #TeamBlack&natural offers the same exclusivity as this site and makes so much more sense to me.
“How does featuring white women in the natural hair movement BENEFIT black woman?”
So succinct & eloquent. THIS is the only question that the apologists & pearl clutchers on FB chiding us about how our feelings on this subject need to be asked. Although I doubt that they’d answer truthfully because some of my former favorite vloggers & bloggers who defended the chick claimed that they got good hair care tips from her vlog. When I saw the feature I thought it was a joke and actually laughed when she was asked whether she’d big chopped or transitioned to “natural”.
My hair is 4A/B/C ~ a yt chick can’t tell me ish about how to care for my hair.
It’s a question that they will NOT answer. Because they know what this is all about. It’s about them being a bunch of sellouts who think the sun literally rises and sets because of the greatness of white folks, and they want to be near them. That’s all it’s about for these sellouts. And the white women are demanding space because they’re just doing what they’ve always done, colonizing the spaces of people of color. And they’re all over there on that message board pissed as all get out because black women are standing up for ourselves and telling them that they will NOT be given a place at the table we built for ourselves. So they can continue to cry a rive and their little pet Mammy’s can continue to dry their tears. But they are not going to take this from us. No way.
I don’t understand what the big deal is. Anyone of any race can ‘claim’ team natural. Most people who will, will be black women, only a minority of other races will claim team natural and they might feel their hair is natural as they dont dye it etc. If someone chooses to express themselves as being team natural even though they’re not black then whatever.
I think my comment has been misinterpreted. Team natural obviously relates to natural hair of black women, but what I meant was its pointless to keep insisting that only black women can use that term to every person who claims it. It takes a while to get people of different races to understand the pressures and issues black women have faced when it comes to hair. Instead of having a long argument with someone about it, why not just let them claim team natural. All natural black women (and even though not natural) know the full meaning of being team natural.
Hi Roo, Team natural has not evolved to the point where the term can be broadened. When #teamnatural has accomplished the goal it was creates for, which is to erase the stigma of kinky, curly kinky, kinky kinky hair and it’s been widely accepted then we can move on to bigger things. We can say check that box….I can leave the house with a kinky Afro or wash and go without sparking a whole conversation among a group of relaxed Black women at an Applebee’s table. Yeah, but this just happened this past Saturday so, we’re not done yet. We still need this community to uplift one another and be here for those considering returning to their natural state. Please let team natural take its course and time. It’s still in the oven and is not prepared for others consumption yet. Thanks 🙂
I understand what you mean. In the ideal world everyone would understand and sympathise with black women about the issues we have been faced with surrounding our hair.
However, other races simply do not have a clue about our hair, most white people will not know anything to do with our hair. Thus trying to impose #teamnatural to black women only will just lead to them feeling confused. To white people natural hair might mean not dying their hair etc, they simply don’t understand and arguably will never understand the sheer depth to which hair has affected the black community.
It is naive to think we can claim they will just understan exactly why teamnatural should be exclusively for black women
**I mean imposing to white women
Roo, you know what I do when I don’t understand something? I look it up or I ask someone who might know. Why are you acting like White folk who don’t understand the controversy can’t do the same? Them not educating themselves about racism and cultural appropriation is no longer my issue, because there are plenty of resources for them to do so. If they think we’re being aggressive over nothing, then I sincerely doubt an explanation of any kind will change their mind…they’ve been socialized to think all Black people are over-aggressive anyway.
I agree with Dananana. I’ve had white male professors completely understand the societal issues surrounding black women’s hair, and this is while trying to explain to a fellow relaxed Black woman that our desire for straight hair is a subconscious conditioning. This white man was trying to school her but she just said…I relax because I WANT to. We were just simply trying to get her to contemplate on WHY.
So, white women can understand when explained.
It is neither the job nor the responsibility of black women to educate white people about our natural hair. And it is also neither the job or responsibility of black women to teach curly haired white women how to take care of their hair. We are not put here on this earth to service them and it’s not our job to teach them anything. Any white woman is more than welcome to get on her computer and visit any website about curly hair that she wants. The information is there. We are not required to hold her in our bosom like Mammy and take care of her needs and soothe her feelings. Those days are over.
@t.c
PREACH!!!!
Danana I’m not acting like, I know. From discussing with my white friends I know how little they are educated on black hair and let’s fact it a lot of us where uneducated when it came to our hair before there was more information available online. It’s all so pointless fixating on a hashtag so much there are more important issues when it comes to hair than this
Roo, its not literally about the hashtag but the movement itself. All of us (Black women) haven’t even come to accept our natural hair as it is so why is it ok for white women to think they’re a part of the movement and say #teamnatural? What mindset has been ingrained into their psyche to the point they have to redefine their subconscious definition of beauty? Sarah Jessica Parker is a frizzy curly white woman but I don’t recall her community telling her she needed a relaxer or a blowout. Did she start a curly girl revolution from wearing her hair curly in most episodes of Sex in the City?
I’m saying all this because team natural / natural hair movement is for black women for the time being. My optimistic behind does believe that inclusion can happen one day but right now we NEED it.
I also believe it is good to make people culturally aware by informing them and educating them. No one came out of their mother’s womb knowing everything. It isn’t coddling white people and I’m no ones Mammy when I decide to inform a sincerely interested person on the societal implications posed on Black women’s hair. There are non-black people who can understand and hopefully check those like the girl on Curly Nikki to be culturally sensitive.
For all the African women saying that they don’t get the fervent need for an exclusively black natural hair community that focuses on celebrating and accepting the black aesthetic…
West African pop star Dencia:
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Headline — Dencia’s skincare line Whitenicious is sold out
http://www.bellanaija.com/2014/01/06/dencias-skincare-line-whitenicious-is-sold-out/
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Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is Deep !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“exclusively black natural HAIR community” – what has that got to do with skin? I mean we all know that skin lightening is an issue that affects the black community as a whole, but i’ve never seen any articles posted here listing the ins and outs of skin bleaching or whatever.
I dont think any african person who posted suggested we didnt need websites like BGLH (if not why would be here in the first place….?), I just think conversations today have highlighted that some people take different things out of the natural movement. I think when a lot of us first came to websites like this it was to learn how to take care of our hair, but for someone who to be told she is not welcome simply because her hair texture or skin colour offends some is to me just ridiculous.
To me, it’s not a matter of who is and isn’t welcome. It’s a matter of what the expected level of involvement is. I think anyone can read a site like BGLH and walk away with great information, and an insight into black female beauty culture. Just like I can read Cosmopolitan Magazine and be entertained. To me the challenge comes with the demands for representation that are being made. Like, “I need to be a style icon” or “I need you to write about my hair experience.” To that I would say, um, no. We don’t. Why? Because, as a white women, you have MANY outlets to be represented, to talk about your beauty struggles. The most obvious in the natural hair world is NaturallyCurly.com.
But let’s be real, there are MANY mainstream websites that dedicate space to discussing the struggles of curly haired white women. For example:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/erinlarosa/problems-only-people-with-curly-hair-will-understand
http://www.xojane.com/beauty/do-you-have-curly-hair-problems-here-are-some-of-mine
http://www.xojane.com/beauty/curly-hair-prejudice
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/hairstyles-beauty/beauty-blog/wavy-to-curly-hair-how-to
http://www.glamour.com/lipstick/blogs/girls-in-the-beauty-department/2014/04/the-most-gorgeous-shot-of-curl.html
So… my question becomes. If you, as a white curly-haired woman, have ample representation (not enough as straight-haired white women, I know, but you have it.) If you have spaces to discuss your hair. Why do you additionally need access to a community that black women have created FOR themselves, BY themselves, that is dedicated to discussing our unique struggle. Why is your space not enough?
To me, it becomes an issue of entitlement. I’ve been reading through the comments, and one commenter put it perfectly (and I’m paraphrasing), “White people are not used to hearing the word “No” from minorities. So when they hear it, it’s jarring.”
When a white woman can sit down and tell me why it’s important for her to be featured as a style icon on BGLH, or to discuss her hair struggles in this particular space, then I’ll be open to changing my opinion. But that’s the other interesting thing. As far as I can tell, there are not white women in this comment box fighting for their right to be here. Just a lot of black women fighting on their behalf.
Sooo…you do realize that hair has literally been racially charged for centuries, right?
Or do you think it’s just coincidence that there is as much hate for dark/brown skin as there is for kinky or curly hair?
I would think the two might be connected…considering only one race has both. But that’s just me.
Jesus!!! I’m not familiar with her but this just shocked the mess out of me… I’m sure there has to be a classified psychological disorder in the DSMV for people who take these extreme measures to change the color of their skin. I hope and pray that this body bleaching doesn’t catch on. The psychology community needs to dig deep on this because I hate to see the young people she is influencing.
Yeah…uh…You keep “praying” That sure changes things…
Sorry imafoolthen but this isn’t a Faith topic. However you choose to address the issue that an international pop-star bleaching her skin can influence many young people internationally then do so…but yes, I will pray to my creator for divine intervention when I see something I truly don’t have an answer for. Your comment was very condensing. Let’s please look at the real issue which is this woman hated the color of her skin so much, she decided to become the modern day Michael Jackson. This is disturbing and I call on Jesus! You are not required to believe what I believe. Instead, a more productive response would be your suggestion on how to keep this woman from influencing the masses. Please, don’t put down what I do in my Faith because I promise I wouldn’t put down what you would choose.
Hello juanicole617
Yes, the DSM-V would categorize such persons (MJ and Denicia) as having Body Dysmorphic Disorder for what it’s worth.
If you say things like that, you’re really a fool then.
Unfortunately the body bleaching is becoming more and more popular by the day. Dencia’s cream is big business and it’s said that the biggest consumers of this product are from America. Scary stuff.
Thanks Anastasia…that to me shows that this woman shouldn’t be taken seriously and should have never been able to start her own line of skin bleaching cream. This is unnatural and she should be committed to the psych ward for going this far.
How would it be if there was a tanning techniques blog that profited off pale, white people, and one day, decided to feature a naturally tan Latina’ woman’s routine? The pale white women would question how this serves their needs. I feel something similar happened here with the curlynikki post. And it smelled rotten.
I wanted to offer my perspective as a 31 year old South Asian American woman with coarse, 3b hair texture. I am well aware that I have much more privilege and mass acceptance than women in the 4a-d category. I have different hair and community challenges than them. I do not pretend that our struggles are the same and I have no intention of invalidating the pain that I have seen many of them go through. The reason why you will see backlash when featuring mixed girls or girls with a looser texture on black natural blogs is because there is ALREADY MORE ACCEPTANCE OF THIS TYPE OF HAIR in the mainstream and in social media. The natural blogosphere gained the following that it did because it provided an alternative and met the needs of women who did not see themselves or their resources represented well. To feature such a rude white woman in this alternative space is insulting, especially when women with her hair texture already have WELL established places of online and in person support. Some people took it too far with their comments, but the white woman also did not respond with class either.
While the conversations around this has been wrapped up around white vs. black, I wanted to talk about my perspective as a brown, skinned, “other”.
My naturally curly journey:
My grandfather, like many other South Asians, is of North African descent and my father and I have 3c/4a hair. My mother has straight, silky hair. Growing up, I was treated pretty badly by my mother, her side of the family, and the general South Asian community who couldn’t understand my hair, resulting in sharing the same short haircut as my brother until I hit puberty. Once I was allowed to grow my hair out, I purchased boxes of dark and lovely for relaxing or got lite perms at salons. Straightening irons weren’t easily found in the 1990’s for me. I had no role models in the media, family, or friends who had longer hair like mine. I didn’t know how to moisturize or take care of it.
In high school, I came across a book called “Andre Talks Hair”, learned about my hair type and dabbled with embracing my natural curl. However, I found it easier to go back to relaxers and/or to chi it.It is hard to maintain a routine and look that is not reinforced by your social circle or has any resources to support it. A few years after, I found the Curly Girl method and tried to make it work, but I couldn’t maintain a routine that looked good on me for more than a day. I also didn’t find that any of the care routine or appearance of women on the NaturallyCurly forum appealed to my needs or aesthetics.
In my late 20s, I started coming across blogs and youtubes by black women who did the big chop and went natural. After a terrible keratin treatment and suffering huge hairloss due to a thyroid disorder, I cut off most of my hair and embraced the techniques I saw from these ladies. I went chemical, heat, and sulfate free with my texture, I learned to pay attention to ingredients, and I fought my family, coworkers, friends and partners on their ideals of beautiful or healthy hair. I checked my boss who told me comments like I look like I should be cleaning his house when I first went naturally curly or coworkers who told me I couldn’t be in management unless I tucked my hair away. I learned about twists, knots, ACV, honey, and more, at the same time that many of my black girlfriends were embracing their natural texture. We made mistakes together, wanted to give up and revive our routines together. Our struggles and textures were not the same, but there was camaraderie and support there (as well as lots of product exchanges). I shared my coconut oil and South Asian henna (oh how I used to ridicule my grandma for this) and they taught me protective styling that went beyond buns.
This shift in consciousness also adjusted how my overall internalized beauty standards. I don’t wear as much foundation, I don’t color in my eyebrows. I am happy to do hashtags like “#nomakeup” and “#naturallycurly in the little social media I actually utilize. My diet and grooming/beauty routine is now mostly natural when it used to be 95% chemical (I’ve switched to a paleo diet for my thyroid).
I’m not arguing for the “rights” to use a hashtag of “#teamnatural. I am offering a perspective from a person that has now embraced a natural beauty routine in an ethnic community (South Asian) that does NOT support curly hair at all (and I believe the roots of this is also racist). I am a natural woman, all around, in a world that is going more plastic and synthetic (regardless of race or hair texture) and I am actively challenging that. My role models for my natural texture tend to be other black women who have embraced a natural routine. But that doesn’t mean my struggle is the same.
Well said! If CurlyNikki had profiled YOU on her website, that would have made much more sense.
You hit the nail on the head. This is brilliant. Thank you.
Mango, thank you for sharing your natural hair journey. Your perspective is well received and respected here. Thanks also for expressing your understanding of the reason behind the natural hair movement among Black women.
I feel like when white women are invited into the natural hair community, its used by many to legitimize the movement (see “Columbusing”). I went natural to redefine my own beauty (among other reasons) while a student at a PWI. No white woman can understand what its like to wear their ‘fro to class and have everyone eyeballing you because you “did something different to your hair”. Unlike Michelle Joni, my afro didn’t come off to reveal shiny, long, strawberry blonde hair. And please don’t give me that “not every white woman has straight/manageable hair” business; miss me with that special snowflake nonsense. I don’t hate anyone or want to exile them to another planet, but I don’t feel comfortable including anyone that potentially fits into beauty standards that I so fiercely rejected. White women don’t need #TeamNatural to affirm their beauty, its affirmed on magazine covers around the US and the world. Why do white women need this particular movement? Is their history that of caricatures of the pickaninny, did wearing their natural afro get them called “militant” or get them fired (see Melba Tolliver), did their mothers’ tell them their hair wasn’t “good” enough and needed to be chemically over processed to make them look “presentable” for the public? I don’t need legitimacy with my movement, I need respect.
Is the natural hair community exclusively for black women? ‘Ya damn right!
This should not even be a question. Of course #teamnatural should be for black women and black women only. The onus should not even be on us to justify anything. The real question is, why do these white women insist on Columbus-ing a space where they are neither wanted nor needed. That is the question. The fact that they DEMAND to be included ina space that is NOT for them to begin with is quite sinister. It’s past time we turn the question on them. It’s like the “argument” over the N-word. Stop arguing about who can use it and just ask White people why they want to say it so badly.
Any white woman who demands to be given a seat at the #teamnatrual table, even after it has been explained to her by black women why she is neither needed nor wanted, is a straight up racist who is suspicious and THREATENED by black women REJECTING her white beauty standard and forming a healthy and sisterly community amongst ourselves. We do not have to accept this colonization and shame on the black women out here cosigning these white women.
I think part of their shock is that black women didn’t just happily accept accept. They’re so used to coming in and getting comfy with very little resistance that someone telling them, “NO!” is startling.
Absolutely. Black women are waking up, slowly but surely. Had this happened even ten years ago, I don’t think that white woman would have gotten this much push-back.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/PREACH.gif[/img]
Awww shoot–gif doesn’t work =/
Yessssssss—to these astute comments!
Have there been any White women jump in here to comment? I’d be curious to hear their reasoning for wanting to appropriate “natural hair”. Right now I’m thinking it would go something like “Well, I use natural products and have curly hair. And it’s just fun and good hair care is for everyone”
I’ve just had so many experiences with White women and their cultural callousness that at this point I think White women who want to appropriate would be incapable of cultural sensitivity and any reasoning would boil down to “Because I want to.”
Well, I’m pretty sure LC/LJ is/are white, if not Sarah herself. Their comments are so off base, there’s no way they’re Black lol They ain’t slick, I know a non-Black poster when I see one… nice try though.
Sometimes a movement won’t include you and that’s okay. It’s not racist. Just like how you might not get invited to a neighbor’s BBQ it doesn’t mean you don’t like to cook outside too
Or they could cook outside at their own house and quit worrying about what I’m doing at mine. Could have 3 meals in the time that they spent trying to figure out what I was doing and how.
I think the only people who can claim “team natural” are black women and Afro-Latinos. White women have never had to get relaxers that burnt their scalps just to fit into society like us black women have. I honestly think it’s disrespectful that white women think that we “owe” them something and should let them into our natural hair community
How about the Asian women with thick curly hair or the Jewish women or the Middle Eastern women?
I think you’re projecting that the few white women who are on these site think that they are “owed” something. Could it just be that they found the site, tried some of the techniques and were happy with the results?
I’m just saying that White women with curly hair more than likely have never had to chemically alter their texture to fit in. Black women have went through years of trying to be accepted by a race that doesn’t really want to accept us black women or our hair. So now we make a movement to accept ourselves and white women try and act like they know our struggle when they really don’t. White hair is accepted no matter if it’s curly the person is white and is viewed differently than a black women
@LJ BGLH made a great comment to that point. White women are welcome to observe and LISTEN. If they find the techniques useful for them great but that does NOT give them freedom to appropriate “natural hair”. Black people should have a safe space to discuss important cultural implications of wearing their natural hair with other Black people. And the comments I’ve seen here and at Curly Nikki from White women give me no faith that a large group of you would be able to handle, quietly learn and accept the conversations here. BGLH should not feel pressured to open Pandora’s box of “inviting you in” because White women feel left out. I know, you aren’t accustomed to it and it’s really hard for you to accept but this is one millionth of the sort of “exclusion” Black women experience. And really this isn’t exclusion this is us talking to us.
And White women already have community at Naturally Curly. Why do you have the desire to claim this space?
You are aware that other black can be mixed with other ethnicities right? And that they also struggle?
Yes I am fully aware that other ethnicities can have curly hair but if they don’t have thick curly/kinky hair they don’t know the BLACK women’s struggle with dealing with their hair and trying to fit in to society by looking more white.
2 Timothy 2:14
“..remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers..”
1 Peter 3:8
“..finally all of you have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart and a humble mind.”
I hope these bible quotes are for the white women trying to colonize the natural hair community and not the black women who are standing up for our right to embrace our own beauty on our own terms.
Lol reciting bible verses white people forced you to learn during slavery. You don’t need ‘saving’ anymore.
I meant to thumbs down you. I get the sentiment, but putting down people’s beliefs, and the Truth are not the way to go.
Mia’s comment was biting but I think there is some validity to the statement. Religion has been used as a tool for centuries for power and control. As a result many people have been oppressed and forced to “stay in line” by the thought policing that happens in religion.
Also when you say “putting down people’s beliefs, and the Truth” what do you mean by Truth? Whose truth? Not everyone prescribes to Christianity.
I agree with you that we shouldn’t begrudge anyone their beliefs but it’s important to have the discussion of why people believe what they do. For many Black Americans the church has been a place of solace and community and many political movements were organized at the pulpit so we can respect that part of the history it has on the community but that doesn’t mean we can’t criticize the negative role it has played in our culture.
Yes preach from the religion that found it religiously right to treat black people as subhuman/not human for centuries.
As a Black person I refused to follow a religion that was used as a tool to enslave, hurt and kill people throughout the ages, not just black people, anyone who wasnt white and even white people themselves.
The thing that brings naturals together is that we share the experience of having to harbor some type of self-towards our hair because of European standards. This is the reason perms and hot combs came about because we were not permitted to wear our natural hair out. Black women at a point in time had to wear tie up their hair because they weren’t allowed to wear it as they wanted to. It was deemed unacceptable and to this day for a lot of people it still is. Afro textured hair causes a lot of us discrimination that affects our livelihood. This does not happen to white women or even some people with looser texture but I’ll just stick to the topic of white women for right now. So yes some may feel some type of insecurity but it does not affect any other part of their life. Natural hair is big for us because we are not acceptable. No little white girl is getting her hair chopped in school or rules made saying that her hair is too curly, that it is not pretty. We are allowed this exclusivity. We were pushed out so we made a place of solidarity for ourselves a safe haven. This has been happening from the beginning of time. This is not discrimination, this is a response to being pushed out.
self hate*
“No little white girl is getting her hair chopped in school or rules made saying that her hair is too curly.”
I don’t think that this statement can be proven to be is true.
And do you know how many white girls and women stand in the mirror everyday and fry their hair straight? I’m friends with some of them.
If you can find me some articles where white kids were in trouble or given some crazy ultimatum (like cutting off or straightening their hair) at school for wearing their natural hair, or white women sued their workplace for discriminatory remarks/practices as a result of wearing her natural hair, please do.
Well until you’re friends wear their hair curly and kept out of job opportunities and are given infractions at school for doing so, let me know.
You’re also willfully ignoring the fact that issues of physical appearance are amplified when on a black person. But carry on.
All of this drama and discussion about who can claim #teamnatural or not is pretty exhausting and disheartening. Some think the “movement” or simply the term natural is just for black women but sometimes it feels like it is just for extremely kinky (4b/c) haired black women. It is frustrating.
I’m disappointed as well. I have never relaxed my hair. In fact, I’ve worn my hair “this way” all my life. The reason why I’ve chosen to use the words “this way” is because I don’t identify myself as natural. Growing up, whenever my hair was straightened, I was always asked by black girls, “do you have a perm?” My answer was always, No.” When I wore my hair curly, the same black girls would ask me if I was mixed. Even more interesting is the fact that the white girls would complement my curls. So I don’t understand the drama either. Has it ever occurred to any of you that some black women simply prefer straight hair and choose to use a relaxer because they simply don’t care for curls, kinks, or coils? My mom is a prime example. She relaxed her hair, as a preference, and left mine and my sister’s hair alone.
Yes, I understand that there are some Black women who didn’t need to completely redefine what was subconsciously deemed unattractive in order to return to their natural state. There are women like you who were never relaxed…you are blessed. It is important to understand the natural hair movement are for women who have needed the “re-education of the negro” just to accept what naturally grows out of their scalp. There are some women (myself) who have spent hours on end looking at kinky textured hairstyles, videos, tutorials, and blog sites like these to re-program our brains to KNOW this hair is beautiful. If you didn’t have to go through things like that then, yes, you would have absolutely no problem with privileged white women, with their culturally acceptable curls joining team natural.
Just please understand why this movement was created. It’s about more than hair. Women are reeducation and redefining beauty. I think if that understood then exclusivity would be allowed. Let us first get to a place where our hair is accepted even among our own people, then in the rest of the world…then team natural can be extended to all things natural. We’re not finished yet…
WELL SAID!!!
Now look gurl, I have the same kind of hair you have. I went through the same questions. “Are you mixed” blah, blah.. But the point is there are people who would still refer to OUR hair as “nappy” too. I was dating a biracial man back 4 years ago, and he had the nerve to call my hair “nappy” so you won’t get love from everyone my friend. You have people out here who truly do hate any type of hair texture that even remotely resembles non black hair. MY hair IS what is called 3c hair, but of course i have been called ‘ nappy headed by black men, once a stupid black man even tugged at my hair without permission, and of course I slapped the shit out of him. Either-way sunshine, there are many of us who have to recondition ourselves to view non-white hair as beautiful. I know that I’ve been called nappy headed by some, and that people are still mean to you even if you don’t have the perfect example of 4c type hair.We all get it in the curly/kinky hair community. What one person considers “mixed” hair another considers napppy.It’s even worse when it comes from black men. and we all need to retrain our brains for self love. love our hair our skin and just be.
This also makes me think about White Girls Rock, which I felt started because some white women were threatened by the Black Girls Rock Movement. It’s almost as if the name should’ve been White Girls Rock, Too. It seems a little weird to affirm being white and proud when white is the majority race in America, right now that is, and has been for donkey years. That WGR movement seems like a very “off” response to BGR.
Exactly, too often white people feel some type of way when black people create something to uplift our community, they fail to realise that we start these movements because of inequality, oppression and deep rooted issues and not because we are trying to make them feel inferior. Its like they are ok with movements that benefit them but ones that uplift black people should not exist. They have no issues with being superior in the mainstream media but get all up in arms when we create something to uplift our people.
They need to realise and understand that they cannot relate to everything and that everything is not an attack against them.
THIS! So much this!
We wouldn’t need to make our own spaces if we were included in the first place.
I think a big issue is that the term natural hair is so vague. Though it may mean unprocessed, chemical free hair which technically many non-black people have, in the black community the natural hair movement started as you state because of centuries of being “beaten into believing in the inferiority of our aesthetics”.
As of this when we talk about ‘team natural’ I believe it should be exclusive to the black community as its about overcoming the long term inferiority complexes that literally affects a whole community world wide. Many non-blacks may not understand but literally in our community many (of course not all) subconsciously have a preference for straight hair over coils or tight curls and will relax their children’s hair from a young age without thinking twice. It was and still is in may circumstances kind of like a ritual.
In other communities although they too may have issues with curl acceptance, it is still acceptable and often depicted as desirable in the mainstream media. Whether that be in advertisements, magazines, movies or in music videos where waves or loose curls are seen as sexy and beautiful. Even in the black media in particular music videos black women let alone natural haired black women are rarely shown, although this has changed in other forms of media such as ads.
Don’t get me wrong we can learn a lot about hair from different races BUT there’s a time and place for everything so unless you’re black there is no reason to jump on the bandwagon. So as I’ve already stated I’m all for exclusivity especially on sites that were created for black people and black issues.
KEY ISSUE: team natural is way too vague
KEY ISSUE: team natural is way too vague
I’m with you…I’m an advocate for adding Afro-Textured to the narrative since it distinctly describes our hair, but I’ve heard white women mention that they have an afro as well…
Case In Point:
This particular submission to a tumblr site, “How To Be Black” was particularly interesting to me because it was submitted by a white woman with “dirty-blonde fuzz” who wants kinky haired women to unite on the shared issue of hair bias.
Here’s HER rant: You think hair bias is ‘racial’? HA! Why do black gals think that “good hair” is just a black thing, when we are ALL judged by the culture on a Womanly Worthiness Scale with Swedish stewardess blonde-silky-curtains at the top and frizzy kinks at the bottom? —and why can’t our black sisters get over it and be brave and welcoming role models for black AND white girls with kinks? When I was in high school and Afros got big (literally), I let my own dirty-blonde fuzz go free. (It wasn’t even a Jew-fro, I’m an Irish-German Catholic with lucky hair genes.) No more torture sessions with irons, hair dryers, sleeping on beer can-sized curlers. I carried an Afro pick and joyously terrified little old white ladies in public bathrooms by using it. But the moment seems to have passed, and now we have a whole body of documentaries and stuff by black women, 30 years later, still trying to figure out why sistahs can’t love the hair God gave them. Hello? You think YOU’re challenged to embrace the kinks? At least YOU have those cool ’70s icons to harken back to—Angela Davis, blah blah—not to mention awesome salons in happening black neighborhoods where I fantasize about how gorgeous black women bond over hours-long sessions with mystical African braiding wizards. Us kinky white girls get nothing but Failed Swedish Stewardess Syndrome. We sneak into Duane Reade and buy Miss Jessie’s Curl Creme (it works great on us, too), and fantasize about having the guts to get locks or cornrows. We treasure our few curly Caucasian role models (Alex Kingston, I’m talking to you, beautiful!) We hate black women who wear straight blonde hair—traitors to a cause that won’t even acknowledge our membership. And you know what really makes us crazy? Black women (like one published author) who think it’s “racist” when white girls toss their long, straight hair around in bars or elevators. We have been HATING those same white girls all our lives, starting in kindergarten parties in our whitey-white neighborhoods. But unlike you, we cannot unleash our Cultural Stereotype of Coolness in our own defense; we’re just the Frizzy-Haired White Girls, the sisters you won’t own. HAIR, ladies—it’s NOT just a black thing!
–Source: http://howtobeblack.me/post/79992294394/user-submitted-why-cant-kinky-headed-women-of-all
Alex Kingston: Kinky or Nah?
Well, she should create a kinky hair support group for them. Idk… It’s just not the same struggle. She didn’t mention any chemical burns from relaxers so, yeah, idk what to say. Kinky? Wouldn’t it be curly with some gel in it? Is it truly kinky or 3c? Is it 4c? like I’ve said before…until the world can accept our hair in aspects of life, then we can talk inclusion but until then, we haven’t finished our purpose yet.
That submission is kind of weird — way too much hate in it for me. Hating white girls for tossing their long, straight hair around? And on top of that, a white woman talking about hating black women who wear straight blonde hair? Uh-uh, I’m not here for that. Not interested in forming any kinky-hair alliances with someone who tosses around the word “hate” like that, no way.
I wonder if it would have been a different discussion if a white woman with 4c hair was featured. I know a whole family of redheads with that type of hair, and am often temped to give advice.
Ok so, I know that the natural hair movement started in the US, and I’ll always be glad that it did, because before that, natural hair in Nigeria was viewed as messy and untamable – but these days more and more Nigerians are now accepting their natural hair texture and perceptions are changing.
However, as a Nigerian with natural hair, when I see posts like this on natural hair websites, I will admit that I at times feel like an outsider. And its strange because I feel like because I am a black girl from Africa, many feel like I am automatically entitled to be a part of this Natural hair movement, but if being a part of it means that you have to be familiar with the struggles of being made to feel inferior by other races then should I just stop coming on this website all together?
“We as Black women have been beaten into believing in the inferiority of our aesthetics for centuries” – I’m sorry to disappoint you but, I haven’t. Did I get picked on when I was younger. Yes I did. Did I get some side eyes and comments about my hair , yes I did. But these are struggles that ANY girl of ANY race can go through. They’re not specific to any race.
“the journey to self-love and seeing value in Blackness as beautiful is a struggle that no other woman of any other background can identify with” – I’m sorry but I’ve never had a problem with loving myself and seeing myself as beautiful outside of my teenage and younger years, a “struggle” that like I said earlier, is not exclusive to any one race.
Don’t get me wrong, I do understand that it must be frustrating to not see yourself adequately represented in the majority culture. But I’m curious, since growing up in a country where everyone is black, I’m not familiar with this struggle, does this mean I’m no longer welcome in the natural community? Or is it cool just because I’m black?
Temi,
I’m sorry, but you seem to have missed the point of the very excerpts you pointed out.
The FACT is, by and large Black women have been told for a very long time that our darker skin, full lips, wide noses, round backsides (which were considered “abnormal” and freakish *see Sarah “Saartjie” Baartman), and kinky hair are “ugly,” “unattractive,” and we were rendered by many “undesirable.” WE, collectively did not fit the “standard of beauty.” This is not an opinion, these are facts. Granted, this may not have been YOUR experience, but because it did not happen to you personally in THIS way does not diminish the fact that for MANY women, this WAS and IS their TRUTH! They have been told this by strangers, acquaintances, coworkers, and even relatives. Whether they choose to accept it not is another matter.
You seem to take words at face value and too literally. I implore you to don your critical thinking cap and see the world beyond *your* lenses/experiences.
Until Nigeria is NOT the number 1 country in the WORLD that buys BLEACHING CREAM, please take your wack a** argument of NOT being affected by White Supremacy somewhere else! I mean really, “we wore perms because natural hair was seen as untamed…” Just because the person telling you was BLACK suddenly means there was a sense of pride and self assurance in ones identity?
Here’s some food for thought regarding Nigerians and the struggle you seem to have missed:
http://www.enca.com/africa-life/nigeria-tops-list-skin-lightening-products
^ This!!! I’m really not buying this “growing up in a country where everyone is black, I’m not familiar with this struggle” story. As if Nigeria was never colonized by whites and those scars aren’t still flesh-pink. Why do you think bleaching is so prevalent in many African countries including Nigeria? Please open your eyes… or better yet a book.
Temi, I understand your comment (please see my earlier comment on this article to a young Ethiopian woman). As the BGLH moderator is stating in the comments, this website is created by African Americans and it more closely follows their experiences and discussions than other haircare forums. Because I live in America, I understand a lot of what is written here and why they are writing it, but that said, I didn’t personally experience a lot of it, probably due to my Ugandan background and general upbringing.
It would be interesting to see other Afro natural hair forums based outside of the Americas for styles.
@User5-6919 Yes I understand it too. Many of my friends who went to America to study explained to me the background and mindset behind many of these feelings being shared. I just think its a shame because as an African when I read stuff like this I feel like an outsider. And i’ll admit that when my friends told me about some of these things I did think they were exaggerating a bit.
Yes that would be intersting. I have a feeling they’d be a lot less political lol
How can you feel like an outsider? This happens in NIGERIA TOO! Please take a moment to learn about the struggle happening in your home country: http://www.enca.com/africa-life/nigeria-tops-list-skin-lightening-products
Does this seem more relate able? Funny I’m not NIGERIAN and have NEVER touched nor would I ever touch bleaching creams, as an African American that’s not my experience BUT I can EMPATHIZE with these woman that choose this route being a woman OF COLOR!!!!
Surly you’ve heard of empathy @Temi?
@Temi, I don’t get where you are coming from. I AM a Nigerian and I know for a fact that natural hair is NOT considered beautiful the default position is relax your hair, braid it up or weave it up (except you go to a deeper life church where relaxing your hair is considered a sin).
Any black person, any where in the world can relate to what is being said on this site.
I had my Nigerian friend tell me that “she would have understood my being natural if I had biracial hair and not kinky 4c hair) so saying being Nigerian stops you from understanding the issues is just not true.
Hi, Temi. I read your comment and felt the need to respond, because I think it’s important for black women throughout the world to support each other. I can relate to what you’re saying because my family is not from the States, so I grew up around an entire community of women who have a different beauty aesthetic than African Americans and Americans in general. However, because I have grown up here, I know what the U.S. media is like and its negative impact on children for decades. I’ve experienced the racial struggle here in America. I think that African, Caribbean and European black women may have to think a bit outside of their norms to better understand what’s going on here in America. Even though that’s not your experience, it would probably help if you could at least sympathize with your African American sisters. After all, if thousands of black women living in a country are telling you their experience, why not believe them? Even if you might react differently? As you stated, being from a country where everyone is black, you will have no major issues with self-esteem and self-worth. But imagine if you were victimized, like many African sisters were in wor-torn countries. Their self-esteem becomes shattered after the experience, right? Well, African American sisters historically have been victimized and marginalized; it’s only been 40 or so years since things started changing. In fact, of those 40 years, I’d personally say that the last 20 years really represent the so-called new age of “post-racial” America. Sorry my message is so long. In a nutshell, I wanted to reach out to you to let you know that as our African sister, you are always welcome. Maybe one day you’ll have a chance to visit the U.S. and meet other black women here. It might help you gain a greater understanding of what’s really going on.
@Tracienatural thank you for your response. While I have read, learnt and been told about the struggles you speak of, I suppose it is different when you actually live it.
This is happening in Nigeria too:
http://www.enca.com/africa-life/nigeria-tops-list-skin-lightening-products
Yup totally understand your point, (Nigerian over here!) It’s a complex matter.
Hi Temi, I am curious… I stated this in another comment to a Dominican woman…why did you start relaxing? Why did so many Black women in the world start relaxing? What made this a trend of Black women worldwide? I may be very wrong but I believe it’s because the European standard of beauty was ideal worldwide. Please correct me if I’m dead wrong. Thank you.
@juanicole617 my mum relaxed my hair when I was 3. she said it was too thick and she didn’t know what to do with it. lol sorry to disappoint you but there was no bowing to the “european standard of beauty”. I think we can all agree that it has only been recently that black women have learnt to embrace and not be afraid of their hair. well my mum didn’t have websites like this back then so she did what every hair stylist advised her to do…relaxed it
Okay…but WHY didn’t your mom know what to do with your thick, beautiful hair, Temi? Why did ALL of the stylists she consulted recommend a relaxer? Have West Africans never known what to do with thick Black hair? No. The cultural practices surrounding hair care were ripped away and discouraged when Europeans colonized the continent, and generations of Africans internalized the idea that their ways were better. This is common knowledge. That’s why your mom had no concept of how to care for your hair, otherwise she probably would have shaven it or had it styled in a crown of braids and been done. So in a way, she and the stylists she talked to were bowing to the European ideal, the ideal that pushes “straight hair is simpler, prettier, and easier to manage”.
Even with relaxed hair, Nigerians still conrowed and braided their hair in very intricate styles. There were also people who didn’t relax their hair. As she said, there wasn’t any knowledge of good hair practices. Even the natural girls didn’t have what is available now. Relaxing was the norm because trends pass on, and Nigerians have been aware of what happens in countries like America. Sadly, a lot of it for a lot of us is following trends that then became a mainstay. It’s difficult to explain, but from what i remember from school and growing up in that society in general, relaxing our hair wasn’t about feeling less beautiful because we didn’t really have a measure of beauty that is ‘other’ to us like in America. For example, the reason I asked my mum to relax my hair was because it was what the grownups did. I especially wanted to get rollers in my hair and do what we call ‘wash and set’ in Nigeria. I stopped ‘relaxing’ and moved on to ‘texturing’ because then I thought it was less damaging. In fact I thought it was just softening my hair (I have coarse hair) and not altering my texture, because after like a week my hair would revert. While I understand what you mean about ‘eurocentric’ standard of beauty, in Nigeria I wasn’t aware of that, it was basically, as I’m sure it was for a lot of people, this is what is in fashion, popular and because we didn’t have proper hair care tips on mainting healthy hair, things like that just became the norm. we have a robust styling tradition but the two are not the same at all. A lot of Nigerian stylists don’t have a clue about caring for our hair and it’s because there is no information.
Hi Temi, I received my first relaxer at the age of 10 and that’s only because my 15 months younger than me sister was begging my mom for one and what she does to one she does for the other. She wouldn’t have if she wasn’t begging though. My follow up question is (please excuse me for coming off as cultural insensitive) but being in Nigeria, why would your mother consider your hair too thick? Isn’t all of our hair thick? (Not literally thick, but that’s how some of our mothers described our “hard” to manage hair due to the lack of knowledge on how to care for kinky hair). In a predominately Black Country, wouldn’t the ability to care for your thick hair be a commonly known practice? Again, please (on my knees) forgive me for coming off insensitive. I just want a better understanding and hope we can both come to common grounds. Thanks Temi.
@juannicole617 lol its fine i’m not offended. TBH i’m not sure. I’m going to be honest with you, looking back, I can only rember like 3 girls that I knew with natural hair. One was in my class and the other 2 were sisters a couple of years below me. To give you a bit of clarity i’ll run you through what a typical routine was for my friends and I growing up.
Sunday: go to hair salon. get hair washed and steamed. and then get hair plaited (some call it cornrowed). wear hair in that style for the rest of the week until the following sunday.
relax hair every 5-8 weeks roughly. and that was what EVERYBODY I knew did. literally on sunday evenings our local hair salon would be full of little girls getting their hair done for school. most of our mums didn’t know how to braid hair (at least not as well as the salon ladies) or they couldn’t be bothered. to some going to hair salons is just for special occasions but for us it was normal. the point is that from a young age, our hair was never in our hands. not even our mothers hands tbh because they didnt really know or understand even their own hair. whatever the hair stylist said goes.
also in Nigeria, when it comes to braiding, cornrows, weaves etc, i’d say they’re one of the best in the world. But the majority of Nigerian females don’t really know anything about proper hair care – they think they do though. I only know they’re wrong because of the information i’ve found on websites like this. but if I were to walk into any Nigerian salon and share with them the information that I’ve learnt here, they’d laugh me out of there.
so basically, if a hair stylist feels your hair is too “thick”, “bushy” or whatever, they’d say to your mum – “she needs a relaxer”, and since most nigerian ladies have relaxed hair anyways, they didn’t mind their daughters having it too.
also, i’m not sure how to say this in a politically correct way, but hair “stylists” in Nigeria are literally picked off the street. the most important criteria for a hair stylist was that you could do this:
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/collagecornrows2.jpg[/img]
because in nigeria, in most schools we weren’t allowed to have our hair out. it had to be cornrowed, threaded or you could get a “low cut”. so we never really interacted so to speak with our hair. it was always in what one would call protective styles.
I hope i’m coming across well. Perhaps other nigerians can chip in to help. but yeah even though we might all naturally have thick hair, because most people get relaxers and at such a young age, nobody has ever learnt how to take care of it. plus we rely a lot on hair salons and stylists. getting our hair done isn’t even expensive. I can do a full head of box braids for about 3,000 naira – which is less than $20. sorry for the long post but i hope I explained this well.
I’m a product of Liberian and Ghanian parents, I’ve visited Nigeria because I have cousins who are Nigerian as well as Ugandan, Cameroon and all over and Temi I can honestly say you just don’t really understand what’s going on around you. I’m 20 and have been raised in US my whole life and I can tell you straight up that you are too affected by European standards is beauty. When I went natural my aunts grandmother and everyone in my family constantly told me my amazing twist outs made me look like I was in a state of mourning. Even my grandmothers back home talk about how bad they think blue ivy’s hair is. And it’s not even just hair. Why is it that bleaching is so popular back home Temi? Be real with yourself. Because of colonization, hot combs and perms are because of European standards. Skin complexion. Everything.
@Tuesday, this is quite off topic, but you mentioned “state of mourning.” Was this from a Ugandan relative? A tradition in Baganda was to let the hair grow out for mourning (when the spouse dies for example); then, when the grieving period is over, the woman cuts her hair short again. I wondered if this is similar in other ethnicities, too, outside of ‘Ganda.
Hi Temi. I hope you take this comment in the spirit in which it is given. I too was born and raised in a majority black country, and it was clear when I went natural 20+ years ago that most of the (black) people I knew, including my family and friends, did not believe that natural hair was attractive, and some of them said very demeaning and even hurtful things about my hair. You wrote earlier that “natural hair in Nigeria was viewed as messy and untamable”. This perception is in itself an example of an internalized belief in the inferiority of the Black aesthetic; our hair the way it grows out of our head, is seen as a problem, too thick, too bushy, too hard to manage, too knotty, too untidy, too unprofessional, too this, too that, so we “need” relaxers, and we don’t learn how to take care of our own textured hair in such a way as to bring out the best in it. If we genuinely believed that our natural hair was just as good as (i.e. not inferior) to straightened hair, then stylists wouldn’t be telling mothers that their little girls’ hair was “too thick and bushy” and “needed a relaxer”. They’d be saying things like, “Oh, your daughter has lovely thick strong hair! I have a beautiful fancy cornrow style that will suit it perfectly!” Or “Oh, your daughter’s hair is so nice and full; let’s comb it out into a cute afro to frame her pretty face like a halo.” (Okay, maybe that’s a bit over-the-top, but you get what I mean!)
Thank you Temi for your response. I put out the question on this forum and the response to why Black women globally relaxed is because of the colonialization of their countries and our -Black women- hair care practices were lost. That’s why I was making sure that I did not offend you or anyone else because I know why we in the U.S. didn’t know how to care of our natural hair but wasn’t sure how those residing in African countries did not know how to care for their natural hair. I do believe that we as a whole have all been oppressed psychologically, by white Europeans to change the natural texture of our hair. That is all I’d like you to truly contemplate. Contemplate on the Why. There are many Black women here in the U.S. that believe they aren’t affected by societal standards that were influenced by whites to relax. Many believe it’s only because they want to but don’t look at what influences their wants. I believe it would be very beneficial for your to explore the history of Black hair in your country to get a better understanding of this movement and why it is NEEDED for Black women all over this world.
Temi, i work in a school where there’s a high percentage of black female teenagers from west African backgrounds(i.e Congo, Cameroon, Ghana and Nigeria) not one of these girls have i seen with their natural hair, majority wear pretty bad weaves while the rest are relaxed on top of that it is evident that many of them are bleaching their skin. There’s no doubt that these practices are a result of colonisation and the hostility towards Africans from the Colonizers.
@Temi My hair isn’t thick.
Neither was my mum’s, neither was some of my aunts’, neither is some of my cousins’ and neither is a least one of my niece’s and nephew’s.
Black people are always confused and shocked by this.
I’ve seen puzzled looks when I’ve walked around with my nephew or niece, with Black people examining our hair.
I’ve been told when I’m on my own by some other Black people that I went natural because my hair “fell out”.
One of my cousin’s and sister-in-law gets abuse for her hair as well. Simply because of having 3B sized curls.
All of us are accused of being mixed with something. Yeah like Nigerian and more Nigerian.
Lol to every one that posted about most Nigerians not having natural hair -I AGREE WITH YOU!!! that was the first thing I posted, that i didn’t know many girls with natural hair when I was growing up. In fact, I STILL don’t know that many Nigerian girls with natural hair. You all cant tell me about the struggles of having natural hair in Nigeria and the negative feedback you get sometimes because trust me, I KNOW! (refer to my first comment)
The main point that I originally made (and some other non black americans made also) was this idea of someone not being welcome because they don’t understand what its like to go through the struggle of having natural hair. And i’m kind of like, what do you mean by struggle?
Now if we’re talking about the struggle in terms of what i’ve just said – being made fun of, being asked to “do something with your hair” etc, I feel like it is something that any girl, with big curly, coily or kinky hair can go through.
But as Erinma(great post btw) said above, relaxing in nigeria was something that just got passed on from one generation to the next. i’m sorry but I cant tell you the history of it. It wasn’t about trying to look a certain way cause like I said, relaxed or natural we all had to do the same thing to our hair anyways as little girls. I didn’t even know until a very long time that getting a relaxer wasn’t something that everyone did. I thought it was like steaming your hair – you just had to do it. And then once the girls got older, everyone had their hair in weaves – again, relaxed or natural.
So my point was, growing up, I never really had this sense of having to fight against anything. You might say that it was because I had relaxed hair, but I honestly don’t think it would have made that much of a difference. We all loved the natural girl in my classes hair and whenever we were allowed to have our hair out we’d all want to touch it. Nobody thought it was ugly but when I think about it i’m sure her mother would have gotten a lot of “suggestions” to relax her hair.
Again, I hope i’m explaining this well, but to all those who say that relaxed her isn’t the norm in Nigeria, you are absolutely right. But like I said initially, I still do not think my experiences are the same as those who grew up in America. Even as a natural now I still don’t. Everywhere I look I see people who look like me. And while I do get comments about m hair when I have it out (some good, some bad), I think it would be the same if I dyed it a different colour or shaved it into a mohawk or something, which, like i said before, I believe (or believed at least) is something anyone can go through.
As Erinma pointed out – “relaxing our hair wasn’t about feeling less beautiful because we didn’t really have a measure of beauty that is ‘other’ to us like in America”
Hey Temi, the thing is they probably don’t understand that Nigerians are conservative when it comes to hairstyling. It’s not about the texture but the style, most people baulk at natural hair because they have no clue how to style it and keep it up.
#TeamNatural is a black woman and black-latina community and practice. I wasn’t aware that Curly Nikki featured a white woman as being natural, and I don’t think non-black women or women who aren’t a part of the African diasporas need to be included in the natural community. Accepting black features and black hair as beautiful and caring for your black hair as it grows out of your head without the aide of vast, black feature and black hair changing products/techniques is not something that other women who aren’t black can understand or practice.
Being a black woman who is natural is not the same as being a white woman who doesn’t treat her hair with chemicals.
I was waiting for this too lol If it wasn’t for the white girl featured getting super defensive, dismissive, and downright unapologetic (“it’s Curlynikki not BLACKnikky” (she deserved her royal dragging for this comment imo))” Most of my issue would have laid with Curlynikki herself, and everyone else who endorsed this foolishness.
Most of us weren’t here for it, but a few too many Naturals threw on their capes for this girl, shouting “it’s just hair!” from the rooftops (which they KNOW has NEVER, EVER been true for Black women in America) What I want to know is why is it that some Black people feel the need to include EVERYONE AND THEY MAMA in Black spaces when literally NO ONE ELSE RECIPROCATES, EVER? I don’t get it! I’ve NEVER heard of Black people asking for representation in other group’s spaces (or even public spaces, like the media) and they respond with anything other than “1 token is enough, be happy or go make your own!” But when it’s us, someone’s always ready to not only invite others in, but to let them take over. And for what, a few dollars? Is that all some people’s integrity is worth? I used to laugh when my mom would tell me Black people invented jazz until I learned the truth in undergad. We seem to always allow our spaces to be gentrified in the name of “unity” (eyeroll)
Curlynikki and others like her can do whatever they want with their intellectual property, it ain’t my business (sipps tea lol) but let’s keep it 100, they are sellouts. I realized this when she sold to Naturallycurly way back when, and I haven’t visited since.
They do it not be considered angry, mean, and bitter. See! I’m not like THOSE black women over there. They’re neck popping and rude and ghetto. I’m on your side!
Without realizing that once white women take over #teamnatural that there won’t be a black head in the place and their hair will still be nappy and unacceptable. Well, yeah, you have natural hair, but it’s not like that. Then all the natural tags will be filled with pictures of their hair.
Exactly, I really wish they taught critical race theory in school, this world would be a much better place. Stereotypes don’t work that way! It’s not what you DO that makes people think you’re loud, ghetto and angry, it’s the fact that you are BLACK. That is what a stereotype is! I read through many of the comments to that girl, none of them were rude! (but I will admit, stalking her social media is a bit much. Like I said before, the issue is more with Nikki than the girl posted) At most, people were just hurt, but she STILL tried to code us as angry, bitter, “haters”.
And girl, it’s already happening! Kylie Jenner and her cornrows, anyone? Letting others in will be the DEATH of the movement because they don’t want to share the space, they want to claim it as their own. It’s happened to every other Black “thing” how soon people forget lol
“And girl, it’s already happening! Kylie Jenner and her cornrows, anyone?”
It’s been happening! Anyone Remember when Bo Derek wore her hair in cornrows WITH the beads in the movie “10” (yeah, I’m that old)? She got all kinds of credit…white mags wanted to say she invented cornrows; meanwhile black folks like Cicely Tyson (and others) had been wearing cornrows!
That was in 1979!
Ooh! I didn’t know she was receiving credit for inventing cornrows! SMH
Flashback! I’d be in the store with my Peaches ( yes, Peaches and Herb) beautiful cornrows only to have someone white, specifically say, Oh, you’re wearing your hair like Bo Derek in “10”. It would have been funny if it weren’t so maddening. I’d then have to say, “who?” All the cornrows wearing we’ve ? A hairstyle we were popularizing without being seen. (It was just a little piece of purgatory)
.
It’s also an issue of self-hate as well. They don’t think the #teamnatural movement is worth anything without the validation of white women. This is part of why they cape so hard for white women. They want WW in the movement because the proximity to whiteness makes them feel special.
All of this: So. On. Point.
I’m frankly exhausted with and no longer deal with black folks who love white acceptance more than they love self. Grow a spine and have some dignity, if not for yourself, then for those who came before you and the little ones watching.
This^^. And this goes out to every Black person making revenue off of the Black beauty industry: You do not HAVE to diversify (in terms of race I mean), you WANTED to. Everyone knows Black women spend the most $$$ on Beauty (a TRILLION, I think). This is why I consider those like CurlyNikki and Carols Daughter to be sellouts. I didn’t even major in business and even I know a good business would neeever isolate their target audience if they had the most money to invest, and they would neever invest in something that would’t bring in big bucks. Never, never, never. I’ve never seen those fusion hair extension thingies in an Asian beauty supply, because they know Black women ain’t checkin’ for that. They’re not dumb. That’s why white companies are swooping into the natural hair movement like vultures, they want in on that trillion. Notice how no one gave a crap about 100% natural products, sulfates, oils etc. when most Black Women were relaxing? As soon as we switched, so did they. They’re not slick.
For the natural hair industry, the validation of white/straight-haired women means literally nothing and adds nothing. They buy shampoo, conditioner and serum, dassit. If you go out of your way to cater to them, it’s because you want to.
Sorry for all my long posts, I’m bored #Unemployed2014Graduate lol
This is starting to parallel a lot of the issues that happened during the feminist movement in the 60s-70s. Black women really kicked off things and were a dominant voice (and to their credit still play a very significant role) but then White women came a long to “take charge” and be the visible presence in the movement. I highly recommend watching “Born in Flames” which does a awesome job of showing how the “intellectual” White women aren’t supportive or inclusive of the Black women or non white women.
I do think some Black women are self-conscious about being perceived as angry or exclusive but I also think there’s another side where Black women empathize more with being excluded and don’t want others to feel that way. I think it mostly comes from a good place but misguided. Another example of this is Black women are the most likely to write back to ALL RACES on OKCupid but the LEAST likely to be written back to. Check out these fascinating stats http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/
There’s a lot of precedent for Black women opening their arms to nurture and it has a lot to do with our history in our own communities and how we have been treated historically. What it is disappointing is that many of the Black women commenting here don’t seem educated at all with the history. I really enjoy BGLH because they really provide a platform for these really important discussions even though some people think their focus should be just hair…it’s never JUST about hair.
This didn’t start in the 60’s with the feminist movement. It started over 100 years ago with Ida B. Wells and Alice Paul.
During the Suffragist movement. This is not new at all and they can try that ‘reverse racism’ if they want to, but I’m hoping black people are finally fed up.
I didn’t mean to imply it “began” with the 60s feminist movement I meant to communicate “I am starting to see” the parallels as a I read through the comments.
I agree with you that this has been historically the case. And don’t even get me started on that nonsense called “reverse racism”! The crazy thing they’ve done recently is to turn the word racist into meaning “evil person”. So now when you call people out on their racism they shut down and are offended that you basically called them evil. People will say some of the most racist garbage then be like “And I’m not a racist.” Whatever it takes to make it so they can sleep at night with their ugly, racist hearts.
Exactly not everyone needs to be included, when we say team natural we are attempting to remove the stigmas attached to afro hair in particular. THERE IS A TIME AND PLACE FOR EVERYTHING.
Us black people (I really hate generalising) love to include other races in everything but how can we include non blacks in the something that doesn’t affect them like that.
As I stated in my previous comment the term natural is very vague and perhaps there could be a better word to describe the movement, but lets not act like we don’t know how the movement came about and what we are referring to when we say team natural.
I agree, but honestly making another name will elicit the same response imo.
Remember when we were practically begging for representation at the Oscars, Golden Globes etc. and the general response was “we gave 7 of you Black chicks an Oscar in the past 86 years! That’s more than enough!” Then we made Black Girls Rock and white women were like “what about meee? Why exclude white girls? This is reverse-racist! If they had an(other) award show called White Girls Rock…”
We could have called this “The Black-American-African-Afro-Latina-Diaspora Movement for Black-American-African-Diaspora-people to Appreciate Their Black-American-African-Diaspora kinky-curly Hair Specifically™ ” And I guarantee the same thing would happen lol
“The Black-American-African-Afro-Latina-Diaspora Movement for Black-American-African-Diaspora-people to Appreciate Their Black-American-African-Diaspora kinky-curly Hair Specifically™ ”
Wheeeeeeeeew. I. AM. HOLLERING!
so much truth *faints*
[img]http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/fainting/grand/fainting-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-186.gif[/img]
Am dying over the trademark symbol!! Some of you ladies are sneaky funny!!!!
Technically anyone with natural hair can claim #teamnatural That doesn’t mean I want to see them on a forum created for BLACK WOMEN.
This is sad for me, im a black latina, im from DR, I haven’t been in USA or other country in my hole live … I have been natural for almost 4 years thanks to the natural hair community, but if I stick to the description of #teamnatural that you are giving I some how don’t calified!? That’s what’s sad for me you guys have created something beautiful for all the women in the world who are in the 2a -4c hair category, but now you are offended because you have inspired other women! !!? Thats just sad…
Um, we regularly feature Afro-Latina women, and we’ve *always* featured women of black descent who are also mixed.
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2013/11/ana-3b-natural-hair-style-icon/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2011/08/eliza-in-brazil/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2010/07/guest-post-the-afro-latina-natural-hair-experience/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2010/01/nfatw-letty-from-the-dominican-republic/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2011/08/daily-curlz/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2014/04/karla-multi-texture-style-icon/
These links are just a small sampling. So… yeh…
BGLH editor I am an African and I know what I am saying from 30 years of experience that The natural hair experience is the same, We are also learning to embrace our natural hair, many years of colonisation and being made to look down upon our “Africaness”. In Africa it is the same as the effects of the Slave trade in America. Its still not the norm to see whole heads of natural moving the streets in Africa..Infact Natural hair in Africa in my language Shona is “Mufushwa” which means DRIED VEGETABLES and a point of ridicule. Yes maybe though now I can say the last few years things are starting to change. I have been natural for two years but its only this year I have been comfortable with walking around in my hair, but when I first went natural it was not easy because of the strange looks especially at church(YOU ARE NOT VIEWED AS WELL GROOMED UNLESS YOU HAVE A WEAVE OR SHINY RELAXED HAIR)and some of the weaves are even hideous yet for some that’s an even better option than their natural hair.
However in Southern Africa having natural is not a big deal like in Nigeria where I hear that side Brazilian hair and all that is highly respected. Its more common to see Natural women in South Africa though than other in West African country,(dreadlocks in Nigeria are seen as DEMONIC!) and Natural hair is viewed as “BROKE” I can tell you this as a matter of fact because I live in Johannesburg and attend a predominately Nigerian church. Even have a nasty experince where i showed up in church with my wash and Go on short 4C hair I felt I looked so cute until i entered church and my Pastor(now former) told me that I look like a mad woman and he asked if everything is going on well for me if I am still working because no one walks around like that and he was so angry he pulled my hair and scolded me(in public) and next day I had to show up with a head scarf and The one time I had another issue in church with my Afro texture3d wig and AGAIN the Pastor said I should stop trying to look Like that in Big Afro hair( dare I say I looked awesome both times) to many Nigerian people you aint made up unless you have a Brazilian to your bum or at least relaxed hair natural hehehe now ways!!
South Africans generally have embraced who they are and love themselves more than their West African counterparts( Im talking in terms of accepting their African features) I have so many Congolese Friends (NOW CONGO HAS A LONG WAY TO GO BECAUSE THERE EVERYTHING EUROPEAN IS WORSHIPED) Talk of their skin bleaching and it is an 8th wonder to see a Congolese woman with natural hair,and Go on hair forums on natural hair you will know what I mean( you may not find a Congolese talking Natural hair)
I have Congolese friends who tell me straight up that Its going to be difficult for me to get a husband if i keep on walking around in my natural hair! Lol but sad that people have to think this way again i don’t blame them the degree of colonial/slavery conditioning may vary from country to country but the variance is not much.
About white women on team natural this is downright offensive we all know natural as is used by many people refers to hair that is relaxer free and its a term we black people own because we are the ones that History and present day tells us it has to be straitened, we are the ones the majority of us head to fry our hair in order for us to be accepted tell me one white woman who has had to go through scalp burns from relaxers in order to “look good” please let them stop hijacking what the natural hair movement means to US….this only equates them to watering down our struggle of trying to come out and accept ourselves…we can a long way please let us be!
Hi Alfosina, I personally believe you are a part of the natural hair community and can claim team natural. I know black women all over the world have been relaxing regardless of what country they reside in, once you have decided to stop relaxing and nurture your natural hair texture, you are #teamnatural. What motivated women outside of the states to start relaxing? Was their hair deemed unattractive or was it unaccepted in their society as well? I feel if you had a societal pressure to relax or straighten your hair on a daily basis then you should be able to relate to this article and understand the exclusivity created for #teamnatural.
This space is called BLACK girl with long hair not biracial, not multi racial, no white……girl with long hair, that being said BGLH have featured one droppers in the past.
Sigh some folks will never be satisfied no matter how much black women bend over backwards for everyone else but themselves.
My personal natural hair journey has nothing to do with my race. I live in a country a prodominately white country in northern Europe so I am far from the colorism that exists in the African-American community that is on-going in America (thank God!).
BUT who am I to say to a non-black person, who has finally stopped flat-ironing and bleaching their hair and is finding the courage to embrace their beautiful brown curls that it’s not as scary? That the comments they recieve do not as hurt as much as the ones I recieve? That they should just put up with people touching their hair without asking just because they are not black?
I love you guys but sometimes it seems that we live in different worlds.
We do live in different worlds and it’s not because we opted to.
@Brown freckled mommy I think black americans are the ones primarily with this mindset. Which is sad because being from west africa, my hair is as kinky as it gets lol. So websites like this have been a big help. But I really don’t like some of the views that are shared here at times. Its like they forget that there are other black people that exist who might think differently from them.
For the record, I dont have a problem with anyone claiming the word natural.
What the article is discussing is not the word natural itself… but more the #teamnatural phenomenon. There is a reason that most natural hair bloggers, vloggers, product companies and styling trends are coming out of America. This movement is centered on the African American experience — and I think black/African women all over the world have benefitted from that. I don’t think that the African or Caribbean natural hair experience is the same as the African American natural hair experience — and that’s fine. But, as it stands, I do think that African American women are leading this movement and defining it for themselves. And I don’t see anything wrong with that.
@Black Girl With Long Hair You’re definitely right that we do not share the same experience. So again I ask – if a whole post has been dedicated to why white women should not be included in this phenomenon because they cannot truly understand it the way a black american can, I ask again, does that mean that I, a nigerian girl with type 4 hair, should not be included as well because I have not shared in your experience and struggles?
In other words – am I welcome here? And if so, what makes me more welcome than a female with type 3-4 hair, but isn’t considered black enough?
I think that is up to you. The resistance African American women receive for wearing their hair is definitely not the same as the African experience. But, as many African readers have commented throughout the years, there is still a struggle against a colonial mindset in many areas of the continent that prevents many African women from feeling comfortable with their natural texture. Some African women feel that this runs parallel to the African American experience. Some feel that it doesn’t. I grew up in Jamaica, and I tend to feel that blacks almost everywhere struggle with embracing an aesthetic that has been long associated with savagery and presented as counter to the beauty standard (Eurocentric beauty). I mean, let’s not pretend that there aren’t super stars in Africa who are publicly advocating for skin bleaching (I’m looking at you Dencia). My experience growing up with kinky hair in Jamaica is not at all the same as African American women here, but I see the parallels and I can relate. But because I cannot relate to everything, I don’t feel that I don’t belong. This is just my POV.
You are a black woman so why do you think you’d not be welcomed here? If white women being included here is that important to you or if you’re so closely identified with white women that you feel this space is no longer useful to you unless you can see their faces all over it, then why are you here? If you are so white identified that you feel that the “exclusion” of white women is an indictment on your as an African woman, why not frequent sites that feature white women instead?
Temi, know that you are welcome on sites like this… There’s more offered here than this controversial topic. You are also a part of the natural hair movement if you once relaxed, returned to natural and then need sites like these to learn how to care for your natural hair. I feel like if you knew how to care for your natural hair, you wouldn’t need this site. I do have a real question though. Did you already know how to care for your natural hair or did you, like myself, have to search the internet to learn now to do so?
The one thing I find most sad about SOME non-African American Blacks AND Blacks in America is the lack of empathy for the struggle, while different, we have all shared. My family is African American we suffered in this country via the trans-Atlantic slave trade, segregation, discrimination etc.
Now last I heard it’s not all peaches and cream over on “the continent” and my sisters and brothers there have suffered from white supremacy in the form of colonization, discrimination, government corruption etc. As a member of the DIASPORA I may not have experienced THAT form of institutional racism but I can EMPATHIZE with my sisters and brothers that have.
We’ve ALL suffered all you have to do is be OPEN to empathizing with one another! What is the use in comparing battle scars shared in the SAME WAR??! Stop letting yourself be distracted by petty bull sh*t and see we in this damn boat TOGETHER. Nigerians, Ethiopians, African Americans, Trinidadians Afro-Cubans, Dominicans, Haitians, etc same damn boat, unless you choose to be too closed minded to see the common denominator we all share.
Seriously I am SMH at some Africans that have posted here.
I hate that you are talking as if there no struggles that come with being a natural African Girl.
Well, i had/have to go through many things for example people making fun of my hair here in Europe. My own mother used to say i have “slave hair”,”poor people’s hair” *sigh*( well now that it is long she stopped) just because i dared to wear my hair in it’s natural state.
I am thankful to sites like these were i can see other women that go through the same problems as me, and where our beauty is celebrated.
@Temi
C’mon now. This site is for BLACK women whether American (North snd South), Caribbean or African. In fact many west African women have been featured here. This article is dedicated to excluding non-blacks, not non-Americans. Take it from a fellow West African that frequents this site.
t.c. I literally CANNOT with your comment i’m sorry. If thats the conclusion you came to from what I posted then I honestly don’t think there is anything I can even say to help you understand. Just WOW
I think that’s the conclusion a lot of people came to, Temi. Again, if you are so white-identified that you feel rejection of WW is a rejection of you as an African, natural hair and all, then why are you here? If you feel you are no longer a true member of this community because a white woman can’t be, then why are you here?
As a Nigerian, I think the main difference is the fact that, no one made fun of people who were not relaxed when I was growing up. The thought was that they didn’t need to. Apart from that, I would say that the lack of information on hair care is the same and how early people got their hair relaxed. Relaxing was just the norm as it was for African Americans.
I would just add that the Caribbean experience with natural hair as well as the Latin American HAS been pretty much the same as the Afro-American experience seeing as we were all enslaved and came on the same ships. Please look up Marcus Garvey and the fact that he had a strong following all over the Caribbean, America and Latin America because we all faced the same issues with racism (white is right / colorism) and self-acceptance “take the kinks out of your hair and not out of your mind”.
I think some black non-African Americans get a complex when they go to America, especially Africans, so they try to align themselves against African Americans in order to prove to whites and the like that they’re ‘not like them’. Sad and bizarre but I have faced that here in the UK with a few African international students who try to act like a ‘different black’ and believe that they have more in common with white people than people who share their ancestry. Very weird, but at the same time many of them are completely ignorant about slavery and colonialism IN Africa and the fact that Europeans still control Africa’s resources and paint Africans as inferior (war, poverty, charity adverts etc.) But many of our African brothers and sisters are also well informed and rebuke the whitewashing as well. I mean what’s to gain from denying that black people all over the world have been told that we are the most inferior.
Just curious,@BritishBlack, what do you mean act like a different black?
About your point on denying a narrative of inferiority that white people have created. I don’t think anybody is denying that that has happened or been created, but I think some of us (Africans) are just saying the effects have been different for us as opposed to African Americans. The only time i ever felt my ‘blackness’ was when I went to A levels in the UK. This is of course different for some other Africans as well. I don’t think that saying that is tantamount to denying the oppression of Africans or the continent. It is just a fact for some of us that our African identity doesn’t hold the same poignancy it might for people of African descent that are in primarily European areas as a result of slavery. Do we understand and respect what it means to them, absolutely, but I also think that the same respect and understanding should be extended in the other direction where the narrative might be different, instead of making it out to be bogus. The same way African Americans get irate when it seems that White people or any other peoples want to trivialise their experiences when it isn’t similar, is the same way I especially find it patronising when some try to tell me what the African experience is when they haven’t lived it like I have. Heck, I can’t even tell another African what that is as well as an African American what their own should sound like.
@Erinma
Thanks for your reply. I agree with everything you’ve said and I am sorry if it sounded like I was trying to challenge the legitimacy of others’ experiences.
When I said ‘different black’ I meant that it was displayed in the hostile attitude of a minority of African students towards people of the African diaspora, their identification with whites and total denial of global white supremacy. This is of course not limited to Africans as some Caribbean/Latin Americans also act this way when they relocate to the US and some members of the diaspora are known to stick their noses up at Africans as well.
My comment was just illustrating that although a minority of black people will distance themselves from other black people in order to gain points, history shows that our experiences with regard to racism and white superiority actually all stem from the same cause – depleting and colonising Africa – and many of us make a conscious effort to recognise that.
And it was in reply to BGLH’s comment: ” I don’t think that the African or Caribbean natural hair experience is the same as the African American natural hair experience”.
The disdain for dark skin and afro hair seems to be the same everywhere and that’s why the Natural Hair Movement is GLOBAL. After all, unity is strength it’s great to see us coming together.
@BritishBlack, Oh, i wasn’t referring to your comment when I was talking about some people trying to illegitimize some African experiences that may be different from the narrative. I was just telling you how some comments had made me feel and where someone like Temi was coming from, because a lot of people were coming for her, simply because her relationship with her hair wasn’t the same you know, suggesting she was being superfluous. Thanks for replying though, I really do get totally what you are saying.
@Temi, let me know what you think, I think it’ll be great to do a natural hair blog from the Nigerian perspective, Im really interested to see what are our own views on our hair practices, from our own mouths you know. If you are interested email me at er*************@***il.com.
No one is saying that a non-Black woman shouldn’t embrace her hair…she doesn’t need to do it on a website devoted to Black women. How often have you visited a website, where the majority of users, posters and photos are of white women- and how often are concerns regarding Black hair addressed? They have their platform, and we created ours because we were shunned. Even if the comments they received from Black women “hurt” they still have numerous default websites to seek camaraderie.
COLORISM /RACISM is GLOBAL Brown freckled mommy but it seems you are content to wear your rose-color-blind glasses. Good luck with that!
How soon we forget. naturallycurly.com WAS exclusive to white women. They were real shady to black women back in the day, so black women built their own.
Exactly! And I’m sure they reached out to CN because of the fact that she had the numbers (viewer/clicks/page hits)! We all know they come around for what we build when things begin to get profitable!
Remember that CN is owned by NaturallyCurly.com
Thank you for reminding others of this issue. I think women also need to be reminded that Curly Nikki is owned by the yt women who own NaturallyCurly.com and I believe their featuring a yt woman was trolling at its finest. They had to have known the shit-storm they’d start by featuring a yt woman on what is believed to be a board targeting Black women who have given up relaxers and are learning how to care for their NATURAL hair.
I’m side-eyeing all of the pearl clutching about “us” being reverse racists because when there are stories about the mistreatment of Black women in the workplace, military & school in regards to our NATURAL hair, yt women do not super ‘S’ cape for us or stand by us to fight this particular discrimination.
She did say on her fb page that it was fun causing controversy, so I’m not here for her innocent act.
YES. YES. AND MORE YES.
Who GETS to claim team natural?? Determining for another woman whether or not she can claim team natural means that someone else can and should be able to decide whether or not you “get to claim” team natural. The experience may be different, along with the racial context, but DAYUM! Telling a woman if a different racial background that her ability to embrace her natural hair is cool an call, but “you can’t claim team natural like me” is an example of the root and basis of every exclusionary effort taken BY Europe AGAINST us…this notion that someone else can choose for you by placing you as the “other”. I have no intentions of standing at the doors of self-acceptance with my hands up saying everyone can enter…except you Asians, and straight haired Latinas, and anyone who I deem shouldn’t struggle with self-acceptance in the first place. I won’t continue to further the damage that has already been done and further divide those whom have already been pulled apart by white male standards of beauty…women. Not all white women grew up with straight blonde- hair. But, I guess we determine your worthiness to join based on how hard WE deem it must be to be you. Shame.
White people determine our worthiness all the time. They can afford to sit this one out.
Do you understand that Black women don’t WANT to have to create safe spaces like this? Just like we don’t WANT to have a Black History Month? Serious question.
I wouldn’t go to a seminar for people with disabilities and go to the podium like “one time I sprained my wrist and it was the worst 2 weeks of my life” while there are people who were born quadriplegic in the audience. That would be super offensive, inappropriate, and a false equivalence. They’d ask me to sit down and listen, or leave. Did spraining my wrist suck? Yes! Should I talk about it? Sure! But here is not the place or time!
There are literally millions of places where straight-haired non-Black women can and do talk about accepting their hair, the natural hair movement is not one of them. I was subscribed to TeenVogue for my 4 years of high school, which equals to about 48 copies of the magazine. I saw 1 (ONE) blurb about natural Black hair (and even then, the girl’s hair wasn’t kinky, but that’s besides the point), meanwhile EVERY ISSUE had at least 10 pages dedicated to naturally straighter hair. Wouldn’t it be ridiculous if straight-haired girls complained that this one, 2-paragraph blurb about natural Black hair was excluding them? What about if Black girls said “yeah, at least a sentence or 2 should talk about straight-haired girls problems”? I think so.
While I agree with the article. Where was this article after comments had to be closed due to BGLH featuring a white woman? Where was this article when a non-black woman was featured and tons of comments making the same points were removed? I am glad that BGLH feels this way now.
We featured an Algerian woman once. We thought it was okay because she was North African. Our readers did not think so, so we closed the comments. https://bglh-marketplace.com/2012/01/sa-rah-from-algeria-natural-hair-style-icon/ That’s the only time we’ve featured a style icon who some would not consider black. We did feature a mixed-race woman who sparked controversy. But we’ve always featured bi-racial woman, so I’m not sure why she struck such a nerve. Perhaps because she was very fair skinned? https://bglh-marketplace.com/2013/11/ana-3b-natural-hair-style-icon/ We have never featured white women largely because we have literally never received a white woman’s request to be a style icon. Maybe because of the blog title?
I’m glad this conversation is happening. It is important that it is made known, the difference of the natural hair movement among black women. I feel it. This article made sense. I’m just curious about the black women, who didn’t go natural for the same reason. I know there are some black women who are returning to natural because our natural texture is “trending”. They don’t have any other deep reasons for doing so besides the fact they want to wear their hair in big fluffy curly kinks and what not. I returned natural for my baby girl because she needed an in home representation of beautiful black hair.
I want to know if this article got through to women like those, though. Just like the 60’s and 70’s when women from that time always claim, we did that already. Y’all ain’t doing nothing new. It’s just a phase, a trend…blah blah blah… Then they returned to straightening and relaxing. What happened? Why didn’t the natural hair movement stick for them? How do we make sure we don’t repeat history and forget about all of the progress we made?
I went natural because I just did. There was no breaking the shackles of eurocentric beauty ideals. I didn’t have a bad reaction to a relaxer. I wasn’t making a statement and it most definitely was NOT a trend 15 years ago. I went to get a relaxer and the stylist told me I didn’t need one, so I didn’t get another one. It was that easy of a decision for me.
I’m annoyed by white women trying to snake their way in because I know that there are people who had it rougher than I did and I can empathize and understand black women who have bona fide issues with hair, hair care, and esteem related to their hair. Even though I didn’t personally have any problems with my hair or caring for it, I still get looks and sneers and ridiculous questions and attempted, unsolicited touching and advice. That stings.
These women who want to insert themselves are pretending like they have no clue what black women are talking about and they’re doing so without that empathy because they don’t have to have it. It’s a slap in the face for them to chirp in with, “It’s JUST hair.” Great. But when was the last time a black woman JUST did anything? NEVER. Everything that black women do is scrutinized and picked apart and deemed unworthy…until it’s draped in white skin. Only then is it acceptable.
And it’s only acceptable when done by those with white skin. Black women doing it are still labeled as [insert negative connotation here}.
That is really good a stylist actually advised against relaxing. You don’t hear that too often. I have a co-worker tell me she needed a touch up one time. ..I didn’t see any roots…she said her natural hair texture wasn’t too different to her relaxed hair. I said, why relax at all??? She said she doesn’t feel comfortable when her roots start to wave. That was shocking to me…btw…this when I was still relaxing my own type 4 hair. I assume your texture is similar to hers since you were told by a professional relaxing wasn’t necessary.
I’m really concerned about the longevity of this movement and how we can make sure history doesn’t repeat itself
It’s really, really dense, but it’s fine as spiderwebs. Even with a relaxer it would still look crimped. No one ever wants to relax my hair. Every stylist (7 total) I’ve had since I moved away from my initial stylist in 1999 has told me they won’t do it because I don’t ‘need’ it. Not even the Dominicans. She said “Woo, you’d have to move in with us if you want a brazilian keratin treatment.”
I guess that should be my clue to leave my hair alone and let it be free.
In my opinion there isn’t a right or wrong way to go natural. I went natural because I wanted to use my own esthetic to denounce the “western beauty standard,” but I don’t knock naturals that go natural because it’s “trendy.”
The simple fact that they can see beauty in women like them in their natural state is progress in my opinion. Not to mention, for the most part, we all suffer the “growing pains” of committing to our goal of becoming and remaining natural.
However you find your way into the movement I say welcome, hunny, let’s continue to educate and encourage one another.
And let’s not forget that the “Latino” community is the only ethnic background where one can be of any race and be latino. So the black diaspora includes latino countries and there are so called latin women and men who are of african descent with afro textured hair who would be a part of the “natural” community
Thank you for pointing that out ? 🙂
Thanks for pointing that out. 🙂
I’m sorry. I am from Ethiopia. I have long curly loose strands. My sister has shiny pin straight hair. Same mom and dad, however I think this is borderline racism. I would constantly have to affirm to my fellow blacks (whether AA, Africans, or from the Caribbeans) that I full blooded Ethiopian BUT diversity exists in Africa and not everyone has broad features coiled hair. When people start to educate themselves about the difference and variety of black only then can they free themselves from this confusion. It’s sad because in my culture we were always proud of our god given features. Yes there are a chics who wear extensions for more volume, but we were team natural all of our lives. So just because our hair texture isn’t kinky, that does other us and its why I’m baffled by this whole natural hair talk. Its getting more stupid by the day. Any women who keeps her hair natural from chemicals or any add ons regardless of ethnicity is team natural. You could either define your type of black people, or make it clear that black chicks are starting to realize and appreciate their god given beauty, that other women from various cultures have been doing for the longest time.
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2013/03/true-life-i-went-to-west-africa-with-natural-hair-and-got-mixed-reactions/
https://bglh-marketplace.com/2009/04/sunday-retrospectives-natural-not-hot-in-nigeria/
“In Algeria girls want to look like white people. When I was younger Algerian guys would call me “poodle” or “Bob Marley” in the street… It doesn’t help when you’re trying to stay natural.” — from this interview: https://bglh-marketplace.com/2012/01/sa-rah-from-algeria-natural-hair-style-icon/
They are talking about the diaspora, not africa, especially not east africa. The african diaspora was mostly west african descent. So you are not a part of the diaspora or the same descent as most people of african ancestry on this side of the planet. So you very much can be excluded from so called natural hair community since you do not have afro textured hair regardless of your race.
I just posted my comment and then came back and read yours. I agree, maybe there needs to be a definition of what type of blacks are welcome in the natural community. Because i’m black but I don’t seem to share a lot of the criteria that i’ve seen being posted on this and other natural hair blogs.
You have missed the point entirely and should consider picking up a book(s) on black beauty in the western world, as I have no time to fill in the gaps in your thoughts. I will say you seem to miss the basis point that the black natural hair movement stems from centuries long exclusion from western beauty standards. It is not new, but the way in which this current movement has gathered woman through social media, across the globe and inspired women to not only love their natural beauty, but to take healthy measures to enhance and manage it is unfounded. The natural hair movement focuses on kinky/coily hair because traditionally these aesthetics have been socialized to be the least, if at all attractive in the western world. The physical scars most kinky/coily women have endured to fit western beauty standards are only small reminder of the centuries long wounds. Black women in the western world are now fighting those ideals, much of which has been passed down through women in their family. Exclusive does not mean anti-other. What you are seeing in the black natural hair world is empowerment and monumental love that is giving WOC the confidence to face the world and their futures like unlike before. Let us be.
It sounds like your experience is different from others with kinky coily hair. If your not experiencing the same discrimination, it’s difficult for you to empathize with those who are, because it seems like it’s not your journey and you don’t understand
Are you aware of what “racism” truly is?
This is my first and probably last comment on BGLH. I had to comment because it is scary how much hatred is being lauded in the comments.
I am sorry, lamia, I accidentally thumbs-downed your comment when I mean to THUMBS UP the comment. While I do not agree with everything you said, a lot of what you said I understand and can appreciate.
Part of my ethnic background is EAST African–Ugandan; and I have kinky-textured hair. The vitriolic comments that I see aimed at other Africans without kinky-textured coils on black hair forums online is extremely alarming because of the need to put down other African-descent people to bolster the esteem of others. This is especially prevalent in forums that are written by fellow American blacks, which is disheartening. You can be proud of your features and your hair without me needing to feel threatened of your personal affirmation of beauty and VICE VERSA. That said, I recognize as an American as well the need to RE-AFFIRM the beauty in KINKY hair in the Americas again and again. However, I take issue with the slight but dangerous implication of what is black enough, what is African enough, etc.
If natural-haired kinky women are going to make a 2000s movement called #TeamNatural that is about the beauty and acceptance of kinky and coily hair, so be it, but let’s LEAVE the tribal/colorism/ethnicity/nationality/clan-shaming out if it, PLEASE.
@user5-6919 Same here! This might be my last comment. I am Haitian. Unfortunately, my hair is curly and not kinky or coily….so maybe I don’t belong here? This is crazy!
They are not excluding people of African descent. They are explaining the definition of team natural and why it does not apply to white women. Even in the diaspora there are black women born with stick straight hair. The argument is about the black experience in regards to Caucasian beauty standards and how black women are fighting back in order to affirm their own beauty. This has nothing to do with making white women feel bad our excluding them because they were never part of the experience to begin with.
@ cappuchinochk I took all the thumbs-downing and the negative comments about non-African American blacks not understanding as part of some online dialogue which shames blacks of different African descent (whether diasporic or not). Perhaps I misread what was going on.
In any case, I AGREE on the main point of this entire article that “natural hair,” as is described, is explicitly for those with all types AFRO hair–whether Diasporic or not.
My urge to comment was because I really dislike a trend for some people to try to 1-up each other in their kinkiness/blackness by shaming users, which only serves to divide the global black community.
@Lamia, I would encourage you to find other AA women to encounter. I’m not sure where you’re located, but I find it hard to believe you “constantly” have to prove that everyone in Africa doesn’t share the same features…. to a community of people who most likely have cousins, aunts, etc., who don’t share the same features. I’m not saying you may not have had an experience like that, but that’s a tough pill for me to swallow.
On another note, it kills me when people, but especially Black people try to say we can be racist. We can be biased, and maybe have some stereotypical views to others, but racist? There is no way. As someone else mentioned we do not have the power, influence or money to be racists, since racism is an institution. We do not have the power to insist a group of people need to adhere to our standards of beauty (no need to cover all of the other things we don’t have the power to influence since the topic is about hair). So, I find it completely acceptable, if not necessary to solely delegate the “natural hair” movement specifically to Black women- no matter where they are from.
Someone also mentioned using the term “Afro-textured” hair, which I think is a good idea. I think we should identify our hair as it relates to us, if that’s what they want to do since it’s their hair.
LAMIA: WAKE UP CALL!!
YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT RACISM IS!!!!! NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. NULL. I’m sick of hearing, reading “thats racist” from ppl like YOU.
RACISM IS: Racism is economic, political, institutional, and systematic POWER used to oppress people based on their ‘race’. Race is a construct CREATED TO PRACTICE RACE-ISM. Racism operates on individuals, peoples, and nations in nine areas of human activity:
1. economics
2. education
3. entertainment
4. labor
5. law
6. politics
7. religion
8. sex
9. war
Some basic definitions of POWER found in an on-line dictionary:
• might – force – strength – potency – authority – energy
• the ability to act, produce, or exercise an effect in an legal or official authority, capacity, right, or control
• the possession of control, authority, or influence over others, for example, a sovereign state or a controlling group
• a person, group, or nation having great influence or control over others: the western powers.
• the might of a nation, political organization, or similar group having political control or influence
TO THE NEW BLACKS AND OTHERS OF LIKE MINDS:
A: Power is self-evident. Power answers to no one.
Power is the ability to determine the status quo and who sits at the top of the pecking order.
Power is the ability to determine what is news and what is not.
Power is controlling the financial, political, and educational institutions so you and your kind benefit.
Power is the ability to CONTROL your own images and the images of those who are less powerful than you are.
Power is the ability to determine WHO goes to jail, for what crime, and for how long.
Power is the ability to VOTE in an election and STILL HAVE THAT VOTE COUNTED.
Power is other people coming to you to get what they need and you deciding how much they get.
Power is the ability to generate and produce what you need to survive — which includes your own infrastructure and necessities: electricity, gasoline, water, housing, food, clothing, weapons, schools, universities, currency, banking, and hospitals – without depending on others for your survival.
Power is the ability to decide what your currency looks like; how much it is worth; and how much it buys; whether it is a gallon of milk or a gallon of gas.
Power is the ability to determine who lives where, how many of them can live there, and how long they can stay there.
Power is the ability to move populations, and to determine what part of what city will be black and what part will be white.
Power is the ability to own land that no one can take from you, even with eminent domain, because YOU make the laws.
AGAIN: To the NEW BLACKS and those of like minds: there is no place in America or elsewhere where blacks are collectively practicing racism against whites collectively. Please inform us all when a black collective has the POWER to engage in the actions listed below:
• Red-lining – denying home loans to minority geographical areas.
• Reverse red-lining — targeting minority areas for fraudulent sub-prime home loans that are designed to self-destruct.
• Inflating home appraisals in racially changing neighborhoods to defraud (overcharge) minority homebuyers.
• Low-balling appraisals in minority areas to reduce home equity.
• Refusing to rent or sell to minorities in certain geographical areas.
• Raising property taxes in minority areas to drive minority residents out of desirable inner-city neighborhoods. (gentrification)
• Exclusion from special financing deals that are not generally known to the public, and are only offered to a select group of white buyers.
• Banks, real estate brokers, appraisers, and mortgage lenders represent INSTITUTIONAL RACISM (power) that is reinforced by the courts, banking, and government (systems).
Name one thing that black people – as a group — have stopped white people – as a group — from doing that they had a RIGHT to do? For example, denying them the right to work, own a home, live in a certain area, get a fair trial, an education, or use any public facility.
YOU CAN’T, So GTFOHWTBS of borderline racism!!!! These “New Blacks”, “post-racial” believers, and “reverse racism” folks here in the U.S. or abroad, LIKE YOU Ms. Lamia, you all will be the death of any hope of furthering black progress/power. Yup, I SAID IT. EDUCATE YOURSELF! A good starting point for you would be the racial/skin/hair texture hierarchy of your homeland and its origins!
Ugh!!!!! Wake up!
Preach. The ignorance is simply astounding and shameful.
I have to reply to this and not to attack you but to double check you. I have a very close Ethiopian friend and we talk about race, African vs. non-African blacks and the like. You know as well as I do that colorism and hair texture discrimination exist in Ethiopia. Haile Selassie was known for discriminating against darker blacks and using them as his servants. This mentality has also lasted generations in Ethiopia so please don’t act like this doesn’t exist. Yes, natural hair has been the standard in Ethiopia for a while but not all natural hair is celebrated so please be honest.
Thank you!! Every African knows colorism and discrimination against hair texture exists in their country. There is no African country that does not have this issue.
We all need to be able to check our privilege and understand that often by virtue of birth it puts us in a more privileged position over others in our oppressed group. You missed the point on how culturally significant it is for women with coarse/kinky/coily hair to FINALLY start to embrace and feel free to be proud of what was naturally given to us because we have been oppressed for so long. You happen to not have that sort of hair but you can be a part of the struggle in many other ways but first you need to acknowledge your privilege and use it as a tool to educate the REAL oppressors not the people that hurt your feelings because they expressed their frustration with your privilege.
I can actually understand where you came to your conclusions especially since you don’t seem to understand the privileges you are afforded because of your looks. I’m very fair complected myself and that has afforded opportunities that I know my darker skin friends and family members don’t have access to. And yes, I can point to a couple times where I was isolated from darker skin groups but to be honest I had all sort of non black people who wanted to be my friends so it wasn’t like I was wont for any friends. And what ended happening is that I got to see what that sort of privilege gave; it gave me access to people putting down Black people. That was by far worse than any little exclusion I felt from other Black people. I’m Black and I have Black family members ranging in all shades and to have some “friend” callously disrespect a group of people that I have love, fondness, admiration and respect for was a really chilling experience. I got to learn first hand how the oppressors think and feel about a group of people they know nothing about except negative stereotypes that are spoon fed to them by their peers, family and media.
My point is that you have a different contribution to the movement. You can either use your privilege for bad which would be to backlash at the community because some of them express their frustration at you privilege (you seriously need to start to listen to their experiences as darker skin people because it will be heartbreaking and frankly I don’t know how someone survives day in and day out with the hate that gets thrown at them). Or you can use your privilege for good and start to educate the ones that need it; the oppressors of the culture (and they will tend to listen to you more because of your privilege). It is so important for the people with privilege to speak up to their friends, sometimes their family, at their work, at school and sometimes yeah that means losing some friends or a job but when you have privilege you’re going to be okay.
I’m going to stop you right there, lamia. I am Cameroonian but I and my family have lived in Addis Ababa for twenty-two years now. You may have long curly loose hair, but not every Habesha woman or man has that aesthetic, not even most. And please don’t act like the ones with kinky hair and dark skin (what majority of the population looks like, contrary to popular belief) aren’t viewed as less than those with your aesthetic.
And not just in Addis. It’s the same situation in Gondar, Nazreth (Adama), Hawassa, etc. You may not be able to empathize with them because you are not treated the way they are, but that doesn’t invalidate their experiences and the discrimination they face, however subtle it may seem.
I went to a hair salon at the beginning of May this year for the first time in 3 years (since going natural) just to get a roller-set and nothing more (I washed, detangled, and everything before going there) because I still don’t trust anyone else with my hair. For the record, I have very thick and dense 4C hair that is MBL. You know what the stylist doing my hair told me? That I have very nice hair (only because it is voluminous and long) but it would look even “more beautiful” if I relaxed it. All the stylists there, including the boss lady, had straightened and color-treated their hair in some shade of blonde. If that doesn’t tell you anything, I don’t know what will.
Stop acting like Euro-centric standards haven’t negatively affected East Africans as well! Stop sweeping such obvious problems under the rug and chanting “let’s all appreciate and celebrate diversity” simply because YOU may fit the white standard a bit better than your fellow dark-skinned and kinky-haired Ethiopian.
I was waiting for BGLH’s response! I agree wholeheartedly with this article. Although I still keep up with the natural hair community, BGLH is the site that gets the most, if not all of my hits!
Don’t be ashamed of cultural pride!
Wow, well put!! And lets all be real, racism is reserved for those who are in power and oppress with their privilege which in America is White people (and really many countries all over the world). It is always so frustrating when a White person recounts sometime they were discriminated against because they were white (#humblebrag, anyone?) as though that is anything remotely like the racism Black people experience day in and day out…it’s NOT. So when you said “…is a struggle that no other woman of any other background can identify with. Period.” the same can be said with so many Black experiences that so many other cultures appropriate for their own amusement.
Black woman (Black people) as you said should have the freedom to take exclusive ownership of the spaces we’ve created for ourselves and not have other cultures invade and appropriate. If only other races would show this much interest in our struggle with racism and to gain respect on our terms in this country, this country (this world!) would be a better place.
Ohmigawd, THANK YOU FOR THIS! I had been feeling some type of way ever since I saw Curly Nikki feature a White woman, and you expressed my sentiments exactly. In fact, I remember a poster here predicting that White women would try to co-opt our movement. It’s not that White women can’t go on “chemical-free” (everything’s chemical in reality, and chemical-free normally means something totally different for them), heat-free journeys, because I am friends with women doing that….they just shouldn’t be able to claim ties to the “natural movement”.
I think we should be more narrow in our description of the “natural Hair movement”…I take great pains to identify my hair as afro-textured because I can see where anyone could say their hair is natural, meaning it grows out of their head, no matter what they do to it.
Why do we have to change something that we’ve been using for almost 50 years because white people want to come in and act confused? Afros used to be called naturals back in the day.
This is how everything that we have gets snatched from us and we’re left with no representation in things that we owned and started.
I hear you, but that doesn’t change the fact that Afro-Textured is IMO a better descriptor of my hair; that’s how I distinguish my hair from the lillywhite716’s of the world.
I agree! Natural is too broad of a term that can apply to many different people (and situation). For example some folks say they’re natural meaning they live a “green” lifestyle. I like the term “afro textured” cause there is no mistaking my chemical free hair as anything other than afro textured.
I see where you’re coming from Tammy (believe me, I do), but I’m inclined to agree with Knotty Natural. I think that if we would like to maintain our exclusivity, we might need to be less vague with “team natural” and start promoting the usage of terms such as “Afro-textured”. However, if our community follows that path, I worry that we might start excluding our Black sisters with looser textured hair. *Sigh*…it’s almost like we can’t win for losing.
In the end, I’m just side-eyeing anyone who deliberately misunderstands the issue, White or Black alike. It doesn’t matter where you’re from or what your hair looks like; it should be understood that non-Black women claiming ties to Black natural hair is a prime example of cultural appropriation, and it’s offensive to those of us who would like to claim a space of their own. Period.
Yes, you are right…best to stick with #teamnatural. Unfortunately it needs to accompanied with a cultural awareness course …lol!
We don’t need to change anything. They need to STOP trying to colonize our movement. Period.
Who said anything about changing? What was suggested was that we be more succinct in our definition of natural hair.
Quite frankly, EVERYONE is using hashtag natural hair! I’ve seen more white women on instagram and even pinterest using it. ONly in the black natural hair community is natural hair being defined as being something for women of African descent.
You’ve seen more and more white women using it? Before that who used it? So because they come in and co-opt something that we’ve used WE are the ones who need to change and specify what we’ve meant when we’ve always known what we meant as opposed to THEM choosing something else?
If you always call your husband ‘Sugar’ and someone else comes after you and starts calling him ‘Sugar’, would you let that person carry on calling him ‘Sugar’ and change what you call him from ‘Sugar’ to ‘Knotty Sugar’ (because maybe ‘Sugar’ is too vague and it’s just a word and maybe you’re the one who needs to be more specific when talking to your husband) or would you nip it in the bud and tell them to call him something else?
“Natural” is not too broad. Certain blogs/businesses are predominantly used by Black men and women, and it doesn’t need to be specified. The implication is “who its for” is in your face. All it takes is two functioning eyes and some common sense. People just zoom in on the fact “Afro-textured hair” isn’t specified (despite the fact those are the only people you see in the movement).
It’s kind of like how Black people are practically unable to get into Mainstream Hollywood. We know who the service business most caters to. A few of us get in sometimes, but for the most part, everyone knows what it is.
Preach on Finn.
My Google search results for “Natural Hair” looks really darn brown.
I feel like TeamNatural should be reserved for the black diaspora. White women have so many other platforms they don’t need ours too. What we are doing as part of TeamNatural and empowering ourselves. Other people take notice and that’s fine, but some people need to learn a thing or two about exclusivity. I don’t agree with our statement that Lupita is “fetishized” I think that black people who aren’t used to seeing a dark woman being portrayed as beautiful get their panties in a bunch when white people do. We have had the time, space, and power within our community to embrace all women of different skin tones and textures but we didn’t. We chose to perpetuate the stereotype that “light is right” instead of appreciating our diversity. So I really wish black people would just stop that whole “fetish” accusations and start appreciating that a woman who looks like her can be seen as beautiful and have the success that she has. In my opinion, when black people play the “fetish” card it just makes them look like haters and again like they’re perpetuating the stereotype.
I took issue with the word “fetish” as well.