by
Editorial
Who should be represented in #teamnatural? It’s a debate that’s raged for days now — here on BGLH and on other natural hair and black women’s blogs and vlogs. BGLH writer Christina gave our official response — while we understand the need for multi-racial spaces celebrating curly and textured hair, we also feel strongly that spaces — like BGLH — that focus on representing the black natural hair experience are absolutely essential and necessary. Another one of our writer’s Jc, had a different opinion, and described this exclusion as “apartheid.”
BGLH has always had a small but significant percentage of followers who are not black, bi-racial or Afro-Latina. Many of our white followers are mothers of bi-racial or adopted black children. Some are hair stylists who cater to a multi-racial audience and want to educate themselves. And others are just women who love the ingenuity and creativity of natural styles.
As this discussion has raged on, the voices of our white followers have been largely missing from the debate. That is until two days ago when a white BGLH reader, Ali, sent me this email;
Hello!
I started to post a comment on the blog but felt like I may be imposing so I thought it might be better to email you one on one! I am a white lady who usually follows along silently to learn from this site.
It would be sad to see this particular community shift focus. I came here because a coworker was sharing about her big chop and I wanted to learn more. I hang around because the site has helped me clarify more points of privilege I have while I learn more about hair care (I have curly hair too).
Y’all have something special here. It isn’t offensive (to me anyway) that it is a community for a specific group of people and I am not a member of that community. I feel lucky to know about this corner of the internet and I’ve shared the site with a lot of people when the topic of natural hair comes.
Thanks so much for all you do. This site has, in all seriousness, helped me be a better person/ally.
Take care!
I asked Ali if she could clarify her stance, and present it to our audience. Thankfully, she agreed. So I sent along a few questions and asked her to speak freely and honestly. Now, I know that Ali can’t speak for all white BGLH followers — or all white women who follow and participate in natural hair blogs. But, to date, she is the only long-term white BGLH follower who has weighed in on this debate. Here are her replies;
As a white curly, what kind of struggles do you face with your hair?
My struggles have mostly been aesthetic. My hair is frizzy and I live in a very humid part of the country so it never looks polished. I’ve also got a mix of curl types so it is just as much work to make it look cute curly as it is to straighten. If my hair is short, forget curls.
My hair is also incredibly dry so I have to choose products wisely to balance out my color treatments (yes, some of this I’ve done to myself) and naturally dry hair.
I want a hair type I don’t have and I’m still working to accept that.
When you are struggling with your hair, where do you get help or advice?
First and foremost, the internet. I’ll google for suggestions on how to moisturize and how to style. My awesome colorist is also a good source of information on how to take care of my hair.
How did you come to discover Blackgirllonghair.com?
A coworker mentioned starting her own subscription business of natural hair care products and that same coworker was talking about her own big chop. I started googling to learn more about what she was doing and found this site!
I want you to be totally honest here — and you can! — has anything we’ve written ever offended you, or made you feel excluded or unwelcome?
Not that I can recall. The name of the site is “black girl long hair” so I figured this wasn’t a place for white curlies and that was fine with me. I read here because there is so much good information and I actually think the community is pretty special. It’s an inspirational place and has helped me realize that I do want to grow my hair back out to wear curly again.
I’ve also learned more than I can articulate about my own privilege. There have been so many “Oh!” moments when reading articles about things I’d never had to think about. Reading here has genuinely helped me see more of the small things that are easily lost in a larger conversation about race and beauty. You think about other topics differently when you listen to the stories shared here.
I liken being here to participating in technical groups who teach women to code. I’m active in a large women’s group for female tech workers but I write checks to Black Women Who Code because their organization is reaching out to a very small niche in the tech community. I think BWWC is vital to the health of the tech community but it isn’t designed for me and my physical presence could be counter productive. Black Girl Long Hair is serving a specific community. As someone outside that community, I’m welcome to learn but I need to know that there is someone else who should be in the spotlight.
When you log onto a site like Blackgirllonghair.com, is your expectation that you will be represented as a white curly? Do you think it’s racist or exclusionary that you’re not? (And you can be totally honest!!)
I’m pretty sure the title sets the expectation! No, I don’t expect to be represented here and I don’t care. I have serious issues with the term reverse racism. This is a space for a specific experience and I have no experience to bring to the discussion, so why would I care?
What do you like most about the blog?
I’m worried this will sound cheesy but my favorite part of the blog is seeing a wide range of women who aren’t represented in more mainstream media (including certain sections of blogging!). It’s nice to have a place to go where I can learn about beauty and see a wide range of women represented.
Do you wish there were more spaces where curly haired white women could gather to discuss hair topics? Why or why not?
I’ve been to Naturally Curly but didn’t hang out for whatever reason! I’ve been on the internet a while and feel like a lot of hair sites do have some information for white curlies. Given that I’ve got color treated, 3c curly hair, I’ve found more helpful information on sites like BGLH. I’m going to sound like a jerk but there really doesn’t seem to be a *lack* of space for white ladies to talk about our hair.
Have you faced any kind of discrimination personal or professional because of your hair (guys not finding it attractive, feeling the need to straighten at work, etc).
Omg, yes yes yes.. I feel the need to straighten-ish my hair (I wear it wavy at shoulder length, where it unfortunately is right now) so it looks, as my mom would say, styled. I’m fine at day-to-day work with curly hair but I always do my hair [straight] for pictures that are going out to the web.
Multiple boyfriends have asked me to straighten my hair in the past. My partner now doesn’t care either way. He’d probably prefer I quit complaining about my hair above all else.
I have my own internalized curl-hate to contend with.
Who are your curly haired “idols”? Are there any celebrities or social media gurus that you look to for advice?
Hrm. That is a hard question because I usually assume people have professional stylists- ha! I love Alicia Keys when her hair is curly and I’d like to have Debra Messing’s curls.
I use Pinterest a lot for hair styling tips. I follow The Beauty Department and Hair Romance in addition to this blog.
This was a heated topic. There was a lot of emotion and even pain on both sides of this issue. As someone who is part of the BGLH community, but a different race, what would you say to your fellow curlies?
Every community needs a safe space where they feel like their voice and their experience is highlighted. BGLH offers a home for people who are poorly represented in internet and published media spaces to be heard. I can only speak as a tattooed-blue-haired-early-
The heated arguments over this topic serve to show us how deep historical hurts go and that this site means so much more to many of us than hair care. As women who are clearly represented outside of this space, it is our job to be quiet until invited to speak, learn from the community where we still have personal work to do, and use our voice in other places to help pave a path so others have the chance to use theirs.
I know I sound a bit harsh and overly political about hair but the personal is political. Nobody would be fighting this hard if it were *just* about hair.
So there you have it. Ali will be reading through the comments. So if you have follow up questions or reflections, please feel free to share!
168 Responses
aw ty
I am very late.. and maybe I am precisely who should NOT be giving their opinion (as another white curly) BUT I just wanted to say I love this blog, love the articles, and its nice to see a point of view not often found in magazines or more mainstream beauty blogs. I have learned a lot from you guys. Thabkyou.
really, really good article! i know this is just one person from a much larger community, but i’ve often wondered who many of the topics about hair and beauty that are important to black women are viewed by other women. when i read “Nobody would be fighting this hard if it were *just* about hair.” i knew Ali and many, many women of color were definitely on the same page. thank you for sharing!
Thank you finally a white woman understands her priviledge that she and many curly hair white woman have many sites and products dedicated to them and that this site is dedicated to us but they are welcome to read and learn . Thanks for sharing your story . Natural hair community is dedicated to us blacks and mixed woman thank you .
I don’t think that the point of journalistic integrity has been addressed in regards to BGLH. Key things to note: it’s a digital media forum, it presents media & current interest topics through writing & photos, & it allows commentary. This means that to stick to its roots as a journalism entity it should pose intriguing & thought-provoking pieces about the main subject matter it surrounds. I commend the editors here for getting this view & addressing the discussion openly. I also commend the bravery of the person who spoke up. Now everyone else stop making this more than the beautiful hair it’s about, please. Aren’t there enough other forums for animosity? Let this one be about beautiful black girls with long hair, who from time to time have some white curly fans. Good for us. And good for them, too.
thank you Ali, very well said.
Can’t we all just get along?
Some of the people who have commented are taking things too far. First of all I get it, I’m black, I wear my hair naturally, I have kinks and curls and bad hair days like everyone else but guess what… So does Ali. This is not a matter of territory this is a matter of education and community. Read any of the above article and you’ll see for yourself Ali is not expecting to be included, she’s not asking to be included, in fact she very much realizes that the community that is presented here is not one that caters to her and is not going to. That being said, should she or anyone else be excluded from this or any site that features useful tips and advice for any person looking to navigate their tresses, no. It’s not about assimilation. Stop trying to make a racial difference into an all out war. I read the info posted on CurlyNikki as well. Do I think that the young lady featured made valid points, yes, but did she say anything that wasn’t already being said by any of the other young women featured? No. Love yourself, take care of you and extend the olive branch. I get it. We live in a society where the media doesn’t always feature our faces and our features but that doesn’t mean we need to bash anyone that’s different. It’s pure ignorance and it’s the same thing that has been done in the past. Let’s be bigger than than that.
I hear you Lee. I really do! But in your quest to be so benevolent and inclusive think about this. Mahatma Gandhi received international support when he fought against British oppression. But there came a day when he said the support needs to stop from here, because Indians need to be able to do some things for themselves. Relating it to the relevance of this site, it is all well and good for people to enjoy the information that is available here. But there is an undeniable bias that exist against black women and beauty in this country, which site’s like these help to counteract. Like I stated earlier, this is not Stormfront. No one is going to stop anyone from visiting this site. But I fear your comments show a lack of better judgment and why when we develop things, they tend to slip away from us. Because we are so concerned with being inclusive. When you don’t realize you’re only getting passed scraps to begin with. Don’t let the black family in the white house fool you. I study economic development and trade and investment. Trust me when I tell you black Americans specifically are on the bottom of the totem pole economically. Why? Because we have no business savvy. We don’t know how to capitalize off of what we have and we’re not forward-thinking. Think about that for a minute.
Conversations like these are a needless distraction from what is otherwise a positive movement and I would encourage my sista’s not to allow yourself to become engulfed by these arguments. It seems as if people enjoy seeing you riled up as opposed to happy, celebratory, and at peace focusing on yourself for a change.
Point blank! This isn’t Stormfront! No one is going to stop any ethnicity from visiting this web page. If anyone finds usefulness in the information then more power to them! Having stated that, this is not merely a place to discuss having a bad hair day or having to wear buns in your hair because you don’t know how to style it. For black women, in the African-American community and elsewhere, there are added obstacles of colorism within our own community and having to navigate living with kinky/coily hair in western society (or western influenced societies, which courtesy of globalism, is pretty much everywhere) where dealing with “frizzy” hair is only the tip of the iceberg. In fact, most us don’t have frizz, we have kinks and coils. The very fact that I have explain this shows that some of the people commenting really don’t understand what our issues are, hence why we have forums like these.
What complicates matters is that there is a lot of distrust from black women, or should I state that we look at this thread with a side eye :/ We have sat back an watched white women continuously be paraded as the allegory for beauty, even when they emulate black women. Kim K and J Lo became the poster child’s for big butts merely because they could put a white woman’s face on it. Now Miley Cyrus is being promoted for twerkin’. We all know that originated with black women in Jamaica. Evenin the 70’s it was Bo Derek with cornrows. That’s external. Then we have the good hair/bad hair phenomenon to deal with within or communities, to the point that black people speak negatively about their own hair and some even breed out (forgive the crude expression) to make sure their children don’t have hair like theirs. So finally we have wonderful site’s like these where black women striving towards similar goals can have their needs addressed and run the show. We can embrace our kinks and coils without distractions from hair that is not like ours. God knows when it comes to beauty, even within or own ethnicity, “mixed hair” and anything non-black hair is lauded. Not anymore! That racket is meeting its demise. But I feel like some of you still feel the need to push your big heads back to the center of attention. Yes, I give all props to an English lady named Lorraine Massey that started the curly girl movement. I doubt she even realized black women would resonate so profoundly with it. And she definitely experienced discrimination because of her hair. But for black women, the hair represents a fraction of what we have to deal with and overcome.
FYI J Lo is Latina not white…
FYI J Lo’s look does not represent the Afro-Latina look, actually her look is closer to white (just ask all the white girls who worship her look and try to achieve it with self tanner and blonde highlights) so her point is still valid.
Why is it that when black people have a conversation with other black people it is considered racist? When I look at the TV and there is nothing but white people I just blink. Is this the fifties i.e. Leave It To Beaver as a frame of reference. I don’t understand why non-blacks for lack of a better word are always trolling for info on black women but won’t even say “hello”. Yes that is a stretch. Let’s start the relationship with Respect and then you will have a foundation. Inspecting our hair and the dissecting processes are NOT the way to go. It’s like you are walking in a mall garage and some stranger is following you. It is not a comfortable feeling. Just sayin.
When I read articles like this, I’m really thinking, “it’s just hair”. Then you have the people who jump down your throat, “Your hair is a symbol of your oppression after the rape of your motherland etc etc” I just came on here to learn to accept, take care of, and love my hair, not include or exclude a group of people because their hair isn’t “afro-textured” like mine… I don’t think exclusivity has ever been a good thing, but I guess we (as in the world) will always have that because we’ll always find another place to divide ourselves.
Exclusive hair type = Exclusive website
Im guessing alot of you have no idea why she was asked in the first place?!?!? Another natural haircare site that caters to black women(so to speak, similar to BLGH) came under fire recently due to them featuring a white curly. The questions they asked which were designed for black women who either transitioned or big chopped, seemed inappropriate to this women whose hair struggle composed of wearing her hair in buns and braid (not chemical relaxing, hot combs or wearing hair weaves like most of us can relate too) There were disagreements as to whether her feature had a place there and whether exclusion was ok. That was the relevence of BLGH asking this white girl for her opinion. To see it from a different perspective. It’s nice to see that this young lady in the article actually “gets it” !!!
My hair struggle also comprised of wearing buns and braids. I am biracial, and my white mom had NO IDEA what she was doing with my hair. I went to a school where EYERYONE else was white, and the teasing from my peers was bad enough for me (a 3c/3b, so slightly more similar to my mom’s hair type), but was much worse for my sisters, as they have 4c hair and she was completely out of her element, meaning their hair always looked messy and badly taken care of. (Don’t get me wrong, 4c hair is lovely. It’s just that theirs was breaking off in huge patches and never grew more than a few inches because my mom didn’t know the meaning of the word moisturize. Mine looked slightly better only because it was easier to detangle and such.) My parents always had positive attitudes towards our hair,and they never encouraged me to relax, but extended family members, especially the ones on my fathers side, were always telling me to texturize or relax and making fun of the way my hair looked. So basically for the first 12 years of my life I had either a too-tight bun or a messy, tangly pair of braids. And I was teased and called mean names and insulted. But I know that my own struggle does not compare to that of someone who had relaxer burns and wore weaves and was fired from their job for their appearance. This wavy haired Sarah needs to get it together and stop trying to come in where she doesn’t belong. Yes, teasing and ridicule hurts. But there are other things that you don’t have to experience to know that they hurt far far more. It’s always great when someone learns to take care of their hair and make it beautiful, so kudos to her for that, but she definately did not belong on curlynikki and her tweets were unspeakably rude.
I understand your point. I don’t care who visits the site. All are free to do so. My issue here is that we have a site like this for naturals and it feels as if BGLH is asking white women if they are okay with not being “included” here or asking for permission. I’m sorry but I don’t care about her hair story. I do not need hear it. I don’t come to BGLH to read hair stories of the Ali’s of the world and I don’t need Ali’s stamp of approval to be okay with coming to this site NOT to read about her.
I think the point was to show proof that not everyone feels that it’s reverse racism or that its a problem for white people not to be included. I definitely dont think she was asking for anyones permission, obviously, since she’s continued writing her blog regardless of how others felt about it. I will also add respectfully that if you didnt care about her hair story you didn’t have to read it. There are others who may have been interested and that’s who the questions were for. One who truly cares about any story cares to know both sides of the story, not just what one thinks about it. This particular subject needed to include the other sides points of view, for those who cared to hear it of course. A writer would never chose to exclude a popular topic simply because one person doesn’t want to hear it.
She wasn’t making comparisons. Some of you are so defensive and ready to attack that you aren’t realizing that Ali is simply saying she is not coming to this site looking to have a section cut out for white women with curly hair. She understands that this is a safe haven for black women but that does not change the fact that it is still very informative to any race. How can we improve race on race relations if we have an issue with white women simply coming on to learn. Not every white woman is aware of the complete struggle we as black women have with our hair. A lot of them are intrigued by it, and a lot would gladly take the things we have to relearn are beautiful about ourselves. This has been the case since the start and that won’t change. This is a ongoing struggle that we have to make the best of by supporting one another, encouraging one another and first off working to love ourselves from the inside out. Thank you Ali.
I mean no offense but why do we care so much about the white opinion when it comes to our hair or hair experience period. The point of going natural for me was so that i could learn about MY hair independent of the main stream opinion and input.enough already
I landed on your site after clicking on a pin on pinterest about oil treatments. After getting here, I clicked around here and there and ended up on this article, not really knowing what was going on–but kind of got the gist after reading the article and a few comments. I am a white woman who found some useful info on this site, yes, but I fully acknowledge that I have zero understanding of your hair or the plights you have faced regarding your hair–and I wouldn’t presume to either. One of the questions asked to Ali “When you log onto a site like Blackgirllonghair.com, is your expectation that you will be represented as a white curly? Do you think it’s racist or exclusionary that you’re not? (And you can be totally honest!!)” I just wanted to say that I don’t think it is racist or exclusionary to have a website dedicated to a specific need–and this site does that. You fill a need. It’s a space designed to represent, educate, and provide an outlet for women with African hair. I get that. I mean, can we be mad at Home Depot for not selling coffee? Does that make the exclusionary? No, because we know that Home Depot is dedicated to filling a specific need. So from this white girl, thanks for the info on oil treatments, it’s appreciated, and I will understand why you don’t feature or dedicate information specifically for white curly girls like me.
I’m from the UK and I have heard Ali’s story time and time again. White women with frizzy curly hair are not underrepresented I don’t need to hear it again on a BGLH. White girls and women with frizzy hair are characters in books, movies, TV shows. I come here because NO WHERE ELSE was representing me as a black young woman with natural hair.
The natural Afro hair movement is for natural Afro hair. So Ali – although I understand you went through stuff. It is not right to make equal comparisons. There is NO EQUITY, the way I was teased by teachers and students because of my hair is NOT the same as your ‘struggle’. Acknowledge, and empathise but don’t make it about you please. Thank you
Yeah. Too bad she wasn’t making equal comparisons…but okay. Tina was merely answering the questions asked, okay Ike?? #Defense #Re-Read
I think BGLH can help a lot of curlies..no matter the race..because curly women have a whole other set of hair rules to live by!!The world caters to straight hair so I understand exactly why this woman visits the site!
I will never understand why we as black women/people can be responsible for creating so much YET kill ourselves giving it all away. I. DO. NOT. UNDERSTAND. BGHL why? I could not care less about this white woman’s hair story! I already know it. It’s been shoved down my throat all of my life. Media can no longer pretend that we do not exist and that we’re not freaking amazing! See youtube, pinterest, FaceBook etc. These outlets are loaded with beautiful images of BLACK women. How convenient is it that this natural hair movement is thriving and we finally have a shelf or two in a few major stores, blogs are thriving, revenue is being made and just like “magic” white WOMEN now need to be a part of this beautiful thing BLACK people created? BUT we’re all on the let’s be inclusive wagon! Let’s caress “Becky’s” curls and shed a tear while she shares her “natural hair” story. Maybe we can share one of our natural hair product shelves with “Becky”. We have two shelves right? Nevermind that Becky has complete stores full of product. Surely we can give up one of our shelves…and while we’re at it, let’s find a way to pay “Becky”. She should profit from our struggles. It’s what we do best! Wake up!!! Can’t have anything nice! Pfft!
I know what you’re saying but we can’t stop people from visiting our beloved sites or shelves for that matter..but yes we should keep it for us only! Because we FINALLY have our hair to ourselves for once.
(Sighhhhh) Why are we Blaming the White People for this problem?? Who started Curly Nikki? Who is charge of what get’s Posted? Maybe I’m wrong But I thought it was BLACK WOMEN!! There is the PROBLEM! It doesn’t matter how many white people agree and support us if WE are DIVIDED!! And how did we get here in the first place?? NO I mean America? White slave traders? But with WHOSE HELP?? Other AFRICAN’S!! And the division Still exists. The reason White women have a chance to come in is because WE have left the DOOR open by fighting among ourselves. And one of my big problems with them coming in is that they don’t share very well. Unless you believe History DOESN’T repeat itself and this time will be different. Cause let’s see they shared America? Nope but they killed the inhabitants and the ones that are left can run Casinos! Freedom? Nope. Your slaves and now your free but really since you have no rights and freedoms and they can kill you whenever they want your like in limbo. Guilt? Nope. Cause they (white people) illegally came into the country & took it from others But you Hispanic people can’t come into the country illegally even though Your not KILLING people to do it. Cause they have laws now that they have gotten everything the they wanted. Attention?? Nope. They had Lupita on the cover of a Magazine which means that the cover of Halle Berry got Canceled for next month Because like “Two in a Row?? We just had a women of color Last month??” But it’s not racist because they used the term “a women of color”. This is the History AND the PRESENT!!! Are we really just going to ignore it?? Now it’s nice that Ali get’s it understands but there are a lot who don’t. I DON’T CARE!! My decision is not Based on their Feelings! For ONCE IN HUNDREDS of YEARS There is SOMETHING about US!!!! And WHERE CHECKING in WITH there FEELINGS????? And if we allow them to cry their way in and do what History predicts they will do, make it all about them WE HAVE LEARNED NOTHING!!!
Let the church say amen!!!!!
Ali,
Thank you for being so open and willing to learn.
Thank you for your input Ali, it was greatly appreciated.
For all you Malcolm X quoters, let’s not forget some of the things he said after his visit to Mecca:
“Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood…I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors.”
“There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all…displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.”
“You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions.”
People always want to quote the man at his most militant yet conveniently ignore the fact that Malcolm, just before his death, had a different view of race relations. A broader view. A view that no longer exclusively believed in segregation. So if you are going to quote the man, at least quote him closest to his truest nature.
“I am not a racist… In the past I permitted myself to be used… to make sweeping indictments of all white people, the entire white race, and these generalizations have caused injuries to some whites who perhaps did not deserve to be hurt…I no longer subscribe to sweeping indictments of any one race…I can state in all sincerity that I wish nothing but freedom, justice and equality, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all people.” ~ Al-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcolm X)
1.) This after his pilgrimage to Mecca and he saw what true unity was among races.
2.)He still felt that in order for us to experience true racial unity, white people needed to change the way they looked at and viewed us. They are the majority, the words of a racial minority who has always been generally ignored are not going to sway them. In order to be accepted in mainstream, there need to be a conversation between white people. The quote I used about sincere white people came towards the end, post-pilgrimage. His most militant quotes usually include some form “white devil” or that ALL white people were evil/will always be evil.
Please go have a seat.
Thank you Finn! I relate to your comments.
“…Selective memory is a bitch!” -Susie
the ironyyyy lol
Finn, 1)I already pointed out that the quotes were post-Mecca before I even posted them.
2) Malcolm had concerns about white America, not whites as a whole of whom most of you involved in this “natural hair movement” have issues with. (Not to mention the issues you have with light-skinned, blacks, biracial blacks, blacks with curly or wavy hair, etc.)
Reading is fundamental. Perhaps you could do some after taking your own seat.
Susie. Lol
1.) I’m speaking specifically on my “sincere whites” quote when I bring up Post-Mecca. Which you conveniently paid no attention to out of all the quotes posted.
2.) If you paid any attention to the arguments posted about African American History, you would understand that the issue many of “us” have is indeed White America (Corporate America, Institutionalized Racism, Mainstream Media, The Prison Industrial Complex, etc.). Those institutions of white America are the cause of the Natural Hair Movement, along with many other Pro-Black Initiatives. It’s also been discussed to death that the light-skinned/black/biracials/”good hair” issues within the Black community are prevalent, but with various movements (including this one) there is work being done to dismantle the divisive elements in the Black Community.
You say reading is fundamental, yet here you are ignoring previous posts and selectively picking/choosing which issue to address.
Good day.
Well said Finn.
Susie-Why are you on this blog? It’s obvious it does nothing for you but foster contempt which seems to be the typical reaction when any white person does not make the attempt to truly, sincerely understand the motive and need behind such a site. How disappoiting.
Go far away.
Have several seats. Not only good day but good night as well.
Susie you should read the black woman cross-culturally. It covers the institution of racial oppression caused by colonialism and slavery throughout the African diaspora.
Thank you for your input Ali! 😉
It is basic business that you do not do business with someone who does benefit you. If a party does not pay for your time or service, you lose profit. If that party has a very long history of paying you dust, what would you do? If the ‘exposure’ given by the other party does not bring any new business to you, when do you decide that you won’t do business with that group until they can bring something of equal value?
Until someone can explain why we have always been invisible in mainstream, even when we protest, do not call this movement or any of these women racist/petty/bitter or any other word that has been stereotyped to characterize Black women. We’ve been fully integrated since the 70’s, how is it that fashion/lifestyle mags/beauty/ television/movies/ and commercials have ALL been able to render Black people invisible? How is it that white media continues to push the idea that Black women/men children are not complex, thinking, emotional people with positive and unique contributions to give?
In none of these three articles, have any of you bashing the exclusive nature of this movement addressed the still present issue of our invisibility in the media. None of the people pushing to include everyone has addressed the fax that the beauty standard that can be found worldwide is the antithesis of who YOU are and who you’re ancestors were, and has shown little to no initiative to back track on that. No one has addressed the issue that has sparked Black women’s return to the movement. Instead of telling Black women to just lay down and accept their situation, or telling them they don’t need empowerment in 2014, and invalidating their issue…maybe you could address the problem.
I am proud of the ladies, young and old, who are aware of their condition and are speaking out. The rest of you….I hope you wake up soon, before you are left behind. You need the support of your community more than you think. If you have never been the specific target of racism or stereotypes, you are lucky. But everyone becomes acquainted with the truth of how the world REALLY feels about you sooner or later. And the later the truth of the situation comes, the more shocking it is.
*does not. -_-
wow, i missed this session. such long comments, shows the NHC still has a long way to go!
http://www.themanecaptain.blogspot.ca
i meannnnn…can me and this lady be friends?! i LOVED her responses. Kudos to her to for her empathy and interest in learning about people other than herself.
Yes exactly…She gets it. You can define
“Natural” anyway you want, but when black women are speaking about it, we are talking about Natural Black hair. I read many articles in Vogue/Vanity Fair etc..with hair tips and know they aren’t for me. That’s okay too, because bottom line…Our hair is different.
You know you guys I hope since ‘we are the world’ and ‘there is only one race the human race!’, this yeAr fall fAshion week black women are on the runways since they weren’t last year or the year before or the year before and before that! I sincerely hope the inclusive is reciprocal !!! LOL as an 18 year old young black women even I’m cognizant that white women don’t give a crap about black women!!! Mama didn’t raise no fool!!
Preach!!
I am not understanding why anyone would think we are racist because we are doing our own thing that was not acknowledged ever until we presented it. We have years of operating the way the American society want us to be; remember this country made products that destroy everyones hair so to be natural we can only support each other; do you have any idea how we maintain our hair with caucasin products its a disaster and haven’t worked on our hair for years.
The product line for caucasin women just started to consider us after we did a high level of performance in the hair industry and we are very creative; just remember our products are for all race of women and now we are making our own without others who have no understanding of our texture. I am really surprise at such a comment when caucasin women don’t really care about us or respect us when you are at work, with our brothers, in public and look at everything in America has always had a caucasin face on it look at TV you guys had control for many years but, mistreated us; its going to be a time when you just won’t matter and that time is coming and your not going to like it.
I really don’t want to get into history because we were your hair stylist many years ago thats why the cauasin women hair was looking much better back in days; now you guys style your own and your repeating the hairstyles that African Americans are wearing; just remember this we are the women of all creations Adam and Eve (black man and women) were the 1st creation of all nations; so all race of people come from us; read your bible you will find out and there are 12 tribes of Isreal and your not included.
The time will come and you will know who you really are and pay attention; where is your culture you have none; everything you do relates to another culture and you never worked hard; your priviledged and can get anything you want as a caucasion women; so there is a difference and stop getting upset about what your not a part of and will never be a part of the African American community; deal with your type as you guys do all the time living in certain areas that does not include us and many things that does not include us but we include you guys without a problem so we are not racist; you ever thought about your ancesters they started this entire situation. What are you going to do to make a difference in your community; how would you educate your people; more to come caucasins have been destructive to all race of people; your own people is destructive to each other; get some knowledge read the bible because we are the originals and there is nothing you can do about that regardless of your conversation because a black women was the most disrespected women on earth and once again you were not included. PEACE
Why is this debate dragging?enough articles about it already. When are we seeing anotherstyle icon?
I think all of this controversy is terrible. I wish the NH community wasn’t so segregated. Sometimes it’s messy, catty, and their is always someone throwing shade. There are hair type (3 a/b/c versus 4 a/b/c) battles all the time on blogs and instagram. Now it’s about race. I just wish that we could all get along. I personally don’t feel all the way accepted because now I am considered the “new black” and not the real back just because I have light brown skin and 3b hair. It’s really unfair & confusing for me. I thought that the natural hair community was accepting like a sisterhood. We all have curly or kinky hair woes, some more than others.
You do realize it’s been always about race, right? The racial implications associated with hair are the reason there are texture wars.
It’s been discussed to death in the other threads. Natural hair movement includes ALL women who are of Black/African descent. Whether you are Latina, Puerto Rican, Biracial, Jamaican, Haitian, Nigerian, Ethiopian, or from some small town in Alabama. You’re black, it’s for you. Whether you’re light or dark is irrelevant. You have a place here. We know that Black people have issues with color/texture, this movement has always been about fixing that and accepting one another in all of our forms.
New Blacks are the folks who know they’re history, but are willfully ignoring that Black people are the most disenfranchised group there i, the fact that reverse racism is a myth, and the fact that despite Black people being the most pro-integration group there is….we are ignored by every other group on Earth.
jeezus ever loving christ child you are black… this new black nonsense. YOU ARE BLACK even when one of your parents is white… No one considers you white baby girl as light skinned as you might be you are black, therefore you belong in the movement if you are natural. God almighty these folks out her got black folks thinking they anything but black… field negro house negro you still a negro, this includes latino negros… Look if you can’t pass (i.e rashida jones) chances are you are considered black even when your extremely light with almost straight hair.. We claim ya’ll not only because no one else will, but because as people of color in the western hemisphere we are all children of slavery, rape, etc… We are easily the most variable looking people on the planet from the lightest to the darkest.. nappiest to straightest hair. My family is from Jamaica our motto is “out of many, one people” because of the mixture that exist on the island. The whole point being that the natural movement clearly is for people of color regardless of actual hue, by your description you are black. I hope this forever ends your tragic confusion. Oh by the way honestly I am sorry that some natural girls aren’t excepting of your color or hair type,,, but those are ignorant women. They cannot keep you out of the sister hood or take away your blackness, just ignore them as best you can!
I don’t think that the debate is separating us, it got you to write a comment and I have written several when I usually do not comment or post on blogs at all. However, we all must recognize that our issues and our history influences this debate. I’ve personally never heard of the “new black” and I grew up in an affluent neighborhood in Brooklyn, which is now one of the homes of black hipsters (lol, said somewhat jokingly). I can’t apologize for their racism and rejection of your light brown skin and not as kinky hair, no one can. The point that may be lost in all this discussion sometimes, is that supporters of a Black all natural community want this to be a space where you can share that hurt they caused you, let it go, realize its a singular incident and move on, in other words heal. All of us has experienced the barbs of self-hatred no matter how skin color or hair texture, not to belittle, but to say there’s empathy and understand of how it feels. However to internalize it and to suffer (the Latin roots of suf and ferre, mean to carry on something deep down), from how they projected their pain and self-hatred on to you, is only projecting that same pain and hurt onto others. It projects that same pain and hurt by saying that having a NH community that focuses on issues particular to Black women is messy, confusing and segregated, when I think the point is to have a community where these issues can be healed and provide a positive message, so that next time these bullies call you a “new Black” because of your skin tone and hair texture, you can feel the support of the community and the healing it gave you to realize that they are just putting their self-hating issues on you. And then next time you can tell them to go screw themselves and/or brush your shoulders off; instead, of belittling the desire for Black women to want to have something healing and positive, a safe space of their own. It is this space that gave you the opportunity to share the hurtful things people said or did to you and to hear me (and I’m sure others) tell you that their hateful comments were not ok, by any means, and it stems from their issues of feeling unworthy or less than because of their dark skin and kinky hair (I am dark skinned or at least medium brown with 4c hair), and that’s stuff that they need to deal with and heal from on their own path. I suggest to not take their pain on because, as I feel was done here, you may just end up passing it on in judgment of others in their pursuit of self-love and doesn’t help you to connect with us, with people who have shared experiences and want to spread a positive, loving message, to our sisters. And you are one of our sisters, even if those people tried to put you down for the way you were born, as others have, unfortunately, done to them.
I tell sincere white people, ‘Work in conjunction with us- each of us working among our own kind.’ Let sincere white individuals find all other white people they can who feel as they do- and let them form their own all-white groups, to work trying to convert other white people who are thinking and acting so racist. Let sincere whites go and teach non-violence to white people!
We will completely respect our white co-workers. They will deserve every credit. We will give them every credit. We will meanwhile be working among our own kind, in our own black communities- showing and teaching black men in ways that only other black men can- that the black man has got to help himself. Working separately, the sincere white people and sincere black people actually will be working together.
In our mutual sincerity we might be able to show a road to the salvation of America’s very soul.”
“I may say, though, that I don’t think it should ever be put upon a black man, I don’t think the burden to defend any position should ever be put upon the black man, because it is the white man collectively who has shown that he is hostile toward integration and toward intermarriage and toward those other strides toward oneness. So as a black man, and especially as a black American, any stand that I formerly took, I don’t think that I have to defend it because it’s still a reaction to the society, and it’s a reaction that was produced by the society; and I think that it is the society that produced this that should be attacked, not the reaction that develops among the people who are the victims of that negative society”
“I would like to point something out so that we’ll understand each other better. I don’t want you to think in the statements I made that I’m being disrespectful towards you as white people. I’m being frank. And I think that my statements will give you a better insight on the mind of a black man than most statements you get from most people who call themselves Negroes, who usually tell you what they want you to hear with the hope…that will make them draw closer to you and create a better possibility of getting from you some of the crumbs that you might let fall from your table. Well, I’m not looking for crumbs so I’m not trying to delude you.”
“There can be no black-white unity until there is first some black unity…. We cannot think of uniting with others, until after we have first united among ourselves. We cannot think of being acceptable to others until we have first proven acceptable to ourselves.”
? Quotes from the ever great, ever revolutionary brother Malik El-Shabbaz
Wake up ladies (and gents)! Loving your community when it needs it the most is NOT separatist or racist. It does not make you bitter, or angry. Saying “we need to focus on US!” is not actin a fool. As a community, we need some actual time ‘us’ to work on and love one another, and work on our problems (hair, skin, and everything else). There’s nobody who can or will do for you what you aren’t willing to do for yourself. Settling for running your community into the ground trying to appease people is not revolutionary or kind. It’s toxic, and the only one to be hurt is us. That’s Self-love 101.
Yes yes yes to those Malcom X quotes! I love me some Malcolm X, he spoke so much truth.
This is getting ri-DAMN-diculous. This defeats the entire point. Seriously?? I couldn’t even finish reading this article. Why?? Because it had nothing to do with what black women come to this blog for. Hell, it doesn’t even have anything to do with what this white woman comes to this blog for. So why are we taking the time to stop what we have going here for one white spectator? I think her writing BGLH was fine and dandy. However, the interview-part is whack. It’s not that we think every white woman ‘wants in’ on the natural hair movement. It’s that we don’t give a damn…or we certainly shouldn’t give a damn. If they want to read, let them read. If they want to send an email, they have the right, but the buck should stop there. This is becoming utterly embarrassing.
This debate over who should be able to claim team natural is stupid & ridiculous. It sounds more like its about race than anything. It don’t even matter if you have curly hair or kinky hair, just as long as you’re black, then you’re in. If someone wants to claim natural, let them. Natural doesn’t mean nappy hair. It means existing or caused by nature & not manipulating it with chemicals. Therefore, anyone is capable of being natural & not just black women. Black women do not have the power to dictate anyone of using a word that is so broad that anyone can relate to. Black women get over yourselves with that Im a victim of white beauty. Everyone has a story. Everyone wants to be validated. If you believed something that was tainted, then its your fault. You are in control of you. Excluding people wouldn’t change anything. We live in a world that’s already divided enough & adding more division wouldn’t solve our “black woes”. The world doesn’t owe us anything, its unfair. If you think it does, let me know if you get the world pays you back. You only get what you put out there. Like Ghandi said “An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind”. Be the change you want to see. So if you want to exclude someone, at least have a valid reason instead of you’re not black enough. We As black people divide ourselves: dark skinned/light skinned or curly hair/kinky hair. So we only doing what we are good at. Separating.
I mean, Ghandi was actually a terrible person, and you’re clearly ignoring a bunch of history, but whatever floats your boat.
You do know Ghandi was a racist, right?
Ya know…towards Black/African (“Kaffirs”) people?
“A general belief seems to prevail in the colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than the savages or natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.”
(Reference: The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Government of India (CWMG), Vol I, p. 150)
But please, continue to quote that racist little gremlin.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/side-eye.jpg[/img]
wow you learn something new everyday…I had no idea ghandi was racist, n people always hold him in such high esteem.
I think when folks do one great thing, people tend to overlook the ugly. He was also a fan of fascism, the caste system, and a few other not so nice things.
He was fighting apartheid, but would not extend a hand of help to the Africans who were dealing with the same treatment.
…and was also (probably) a pedophile… :/
And before you or anybody talking about us being bitter and self-segregating or trying to hit us with “Well, Dr. King said (line from his ‘I Have a Dream Speech’)
Since everybody loves ‘pro-integration’ Dr. King, singing kumbaya, and telling us to “be the change you want to see” (without telling us how we can change the problem of WHITE SOCIETY FORCING US INTO A CORNER SINCE WE’VE BEEN HERE) so much:
“I’ve come upon something that disturbs me deeply: “We have fought hard and long for integration, as I believe we should have, and I know that we will win. But I’ve come to believe we’re integrating into a burning house.”
“I’m afraid that America has lost what moral vision she may have had. (Important:And I’m afraid that even as we integrate, we are walking into a place that does not understand that this nation needs to be deeply concerned with the plight of the poor and disenfranchised. Until we commit ourselves to ensuring that the underclass is given justice and opportunity, we will continue to perpetuate the anger and violence that tears at the soul of this nation.)”
Martin Luther King, April, 1968
We were the underclass, poor, and disenfranchised he was referring to by the way.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/side-eye-11.jpg[/img]
Yup, and Malcolm X said it best: Why are we so worried about integration and being all “we are the world,” before we’ve even stablished or attended to issues in our OWN community (not direct quote lol).
Yaaas check this fool quoting Ghandi-offer-all-of-your-sheep-to-the-slaughter’s racist ass! And you got some nerve talking bout lightskin/darkskin when he swore by that caste system shit. Do your research, boo. Dananana, Finn, and many others…
man, I <3 my team!!! #TeamNatural
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/fist-pump.gif[/img]
Goodnight lmfao
#TeamNatural#TeamTRUTH24_7_365!! Lol, I don’t even know what I’m doing with these hash tags, but love to you as well! *Hugs*
THANK YOU, ANNIE!!!! I am not surprised by all the thumbs down given to your comment when one recognizes the overwhelming sense of victimization most black women on here glom onto. I can’t add more because you put it down so succinctly.
yeah HUMANS tend to feel like victims when they are robbed of everything that makes them themselves… and then years later becoming ourselves again finding the descendants of those who victimized us stealing every damn thing but the muffuggin Sun… have several seats and listen, you just might steal… ooops I mean learn something from this discussion
EXCUSE YOU? How has creating/being the change you want to see all of a sudden turned into thinking the world owes you something? You’re CRAZY, quoting Ghandi, a man who was pro-caste system, on a site dedicated to helping black women of all shades see the beauty in themselves.
Black people didn’t create those separations either.
It was Europeans who created the race structure and the house slave/field slave separation.
I wonder how many times you’ve told “white women” to “get over” themselves, or what power they have to dictate what words are used. I wonder if you’re even black….and th I stop wondering that because now I know.
You’re not.
I LOVE my BLACK SISTAHS!!! We DO NOT Require any VALIDATION from anyone. You damn right it’s NOT reverse racism because there are too many groups that we are NOT accepted in at all!!! I’m sick of women that are NOT black always commenting on “why black women are so sensitive when it comes to hair.” This community was built for BLACK women….PERIOD. So if you are offended by our REAL comments then don’t read them and stop trying to be black. #STRONGREALBLACKWOMEN!!!!!!!!!!!
That’s Right! Too many of us are so quick to glorify white women beauty standards. We need to love our hair and accept what we were born with.
EXACTLY!!!
Ali thank you for expressing yourself in such a clear way. I very much appreciate it. Also I’m glad the author accentuated the fact that Ali’s opinion does not represent that of all white women. I think it’s important to remember that one person’s opinion (who belongs to a particular group of people) doesn’t represent the opinions of all members of that group.
Layla, your confused aren’t you? You can incite a riot, but you can’t control it! 😉
And yet here you are including another white chick.
Deuces.
Another worthless blog to stop supporting.
I really don’t understand why allowing the perspective of ONE White person seems to translate into ‘needing a White person to legitimize the discussion’ to some people.
I personally saw it as a different perspective. In my mind, the discussion was already legitimate when Christina first wrote her article. My views were already valid at that time, and reading this didn’t make me think ‘A White woman agrees with me! Yay!I can die happy!’
No. Just no.
This was/is a discussion largely fronted my Black women and allowing the the view of on White person has done nothing to change that. Are some people so resistant to White people that something this innocent would be viewed so negatively?
We don’t like it when White people speak for us, but a lot of us were doing that for White women on the first two articles. While black women are still the main focus of this topic, it’s hard to ignore the fact that White people do play a role in why this topic is significant to us in the first place.
That being said, Ali. Thank you for understanding why we feel this way. And thank you BGLH for allowing this discussion to happen on all fronts. I think it was necessary for many of us and a great learning experience.
So.
How is this different from featuring Scrunchie on CN again? Cause you’re saying word for word the same thing as the people defending her. Right down to the false equivalencies, claiming we’re overreacting and being militant, alla ‘dat. Just replace the first ‘white person’ with Sarah. I mean, she WAS just one white girl, amirite? smdh.
But keep on sippin’ that kool-aid, I heard it tastes good…
Some of y’all looooove to air our dirty laundry, I swear. But hit me up when mainstream (white) society gives a shit about our opinion on literally anything. Like who made the best Rap album of 2013 *hinthint* 🙂
I don’t really remember saying anything about anyone being militant, nor have I made any false equivalencies. Sarah was trying to equate people making fun of her hair with the centuries long struggle of Black assimilation into White culture. Saying that defending this opinion piece that gives us a third perspective is the same thing as defending a White woman who thinks she can identify with the Black hair struggle as a whole is a false equivalency in itself.
I said, and I repeat, That allowing this woman to speak here doesn’t necessarily mean that they did it for validation. Is all. After this feature, she will probably go back into the shadows just like most White people on here are, mostly reading and learning, but never saying anything. This will still be a space reserved for Black women.
Leila clarified why she put this here and I think it makes sense. You don’t have to be okay with this article, you’re free to disagree with it being here.
But I realize that some will take any opportunity they can to patronize others, which is why felt to need to add that back handed kool aid comment….
P.S I have absolutely no opinion on who made the best rap album of 2013. Not really a fan of rap, lol.
Have a lovely evening.
“Are some people so resistant to White people that something this innocent would be viewed so negatively?”
-I read this as you saying BW who don’t like this are overreacting => BW being too militant. But that’s just me.
“We don’t like it when White people speak for us, but a lot of us were doing that for White women on the first two articles.”
-I read this as a false equivalency, because BW speaking for WW aids in our self-preservation (safer to assume the worst and keep them out than to give the BOTD and ‘see what happens’), Where WW speaking for BW contributes to the global negative perception of BW (see: Scrunchie’s Twitter lol). But again, that’s just me.
I was referring to Leila (BGLH) and others needing WW’s validation, not Ali needing to be validated. I don’t think she does. I mean, she didn’t even give her social media. Not blaming her for anything.
And I was referring to the Grammys. Even in a genre BM/BM created and developed white media still found no problem declaring (a mediocre white dude’s album) the best of the year without including a single Black person on the panel.
But all the best lol
Why do black ppl still put value in white commodities like the Grammy’s then get mad when excluded? The Grammy’s is a white institution created for whites by whites. Just cuz they let a some black faces in does not change this. Why are you mad these white folks did not validate blackness on their turf when you seek to exclude whites on what you perceive to be your (black) turf?
@ Susie “The Grammy’s is a white institution created for whites by whites.”, “Black Turf”, “Why are you mad these white folks did not validate blackness?”
….lol.
@Susie
But you just said Black validation isn’t enough to make money in America 🙁 You just said exclusion is baaaaddd :(( YOU JUST SAID white people have to like us too?? :(((
Contradictions on top of contradictions. Sit.
#menditmoses #Googleisyourfriend
@Adina I could not have stated that more eloquently.
*Sigh*
2 strikes.
I get what y’all were trying to do, and it’s fine and dandy that she has a grasp on why many are upset, buuuttt…
Y’all (BGLH) missed the point. Or are trying to milk the controversy. Or both. Whatever.
First of all, when we say white women or non-Black women, we don’t actually mean ALL. We don’t know every single one of them. But what we do know are the trends of the group based on past and present experiences and we judge them on that. And stereotyping a group in power does not have the same effect as stereotyping a minority: I know not all police officers are trigger-happy, I’ve come across very, very nice ones, but my assuming they are can save my life, where if a police officer assumes all POC are violent, well, you know the rest. We already KNOW that not EVERY white/non-Black curlygirl doesn’t get that the movement is more than just hair. We already KNOW that not all of them think that they’re entitled to this space. This woman is not the only one who’s been vocal about preserving the tiny niche that we have built. BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING TO/ABOUT HER. We are talking to/about the droves of white/non-Black curlies who DON’T get it, and have been VERY vocal about it.
Another issue we were talking about is Black people (women in this case) who see NO REAL VALUE in keeping things in the family. The Black women who live and breathe for white approval. The Black women who die by the we-are-the-world, kumbaya bullshit they’ve been fed all their lives. The Black women who completely ignore the constant gentrification of all that is Black. The Black women who can’t see the bigger picture. The Black women who think that Black families (on average) have the lowest net-worth of any other group for no reason whatsoever. Or because we don’t work hard enough. Blah, Blah, Blah. Again, this has NOTHING to do with HER.
And no shade to her; she was asked to answer questions for this article, but why did you think it was needed? A big part of why this movement is special is because it is a space for Black women where, for once, the opinions and gazes of non-Black people are IRRELEVANT; where we can talk and build among ourselves. We don’t need outsiders chiming in, that was the issue in the first place! Just because she “gets it” doesn’t mean this isn’t eerily similar to what CN did. Really.
Here, her opinion adds nothing. We already knew some non-Black people felt this way. And honestly, who get’s a pat on the back for visiting the Louvre and NOT stealing the Mona Lisa? People are too eager to give out cookies for being a decent human being these days. But ok.
If she hasn’t already, it would make more sense for her to send her views to a majority white/non-Black space where it would reach the ears of the women who’ve dismissed us as angry, “reverse-racist” meanies, and demand a spot in the movement.
(*P.S. not to backtrack, but I knew I wasn’t delusional; I found receipts for CN initially saying her site was for Black women specifically, changing it only after she got big and was able to sell. aka she built it off the Backs of Black women. It doesn’t make much difference at this point, but it just irks me how she and others keep denying this. But carry on…I guess.)
CherryBOMB, I totally understand where you’re coming from, and I’ve been in agreement with what you’ve said from the get-go…but let’s stop and think for a second.
1. Ali probably didn’t ask for her POV to be featured–Leila most likely decided to feature it because it’s relevant to the issue at hand, and like you said, site hits. Can’t knock her hustle.
2. Leila probably decided to feature it also because while we (you and I and everyone else who can think critically) know that not all White women want into our spaces, the comments sections in both articles on the topic didn’t always reflect that, and Ali’s response might have actually been educational to someone. We really can’t rule that out entirely, especially in the view of some of the ignorance that was displayed. Speaking of ignorant…
3. Ali can’t speak on New Black women who don’t seem to understand the precarious position our community holds within society. I think she probably knows that this aspect of the topic has nothing to do with her, and so you and I will both have to accept that this article didn’t address it (even though we both feel that it really needs to be addressed).
4. A White woman’s POV on anything here was going to be controversial. Refer to “site hits” in item #1 lol. I don’t think Ali legitimized anything, at least not for me…I think she just provided a face and a voice for all the White women who don’t want to appropriate, and that’s it.
5. Where you at in the U.S., CherryBOMB? Because I’m on the Mason-Dixon line, and I’m happy to hand out cookies to White people that don’t make me fear for our future in this country. No, we shouldn’t have to get excited when somebody’s just being a decent person, but just how many decent, cultured, and respectful White people do you interact with as a Black woman on a daily basis? I’m lucky if I can count off 5 by the end of the day. On average, it’s maybe 2, more like 1.5, haha. And I’m counting my soon-to be husband, so…
6. Yeah, it would be really nice if Ali and women like her could use their voice to back us up in primarily White arenas. In fact, they really should. But their voices can only do so much to combat pure ignorance, and truth be told, White people get tired of trying to educate other ignorant White people too, just like I got tired of seeing other Black women calling us stupid and petty for standing up for the NHM. That fiance I mentioned? He’s forever trying to point out daily and systemic inequalities to our mutual White friends, and it’s very frustrating and painful for him to come to grips with the fact that some people are so willfully ignorant, and that they could be so ignorant towards other people he loves and cares for (e.g. me and my family). No, it doesn’t measure up in any way to the pain and frustration that we deal with on the daily as Black women, but I don’t think it should be ignored completely; it really hurts to discover that people you thought were your people aren’t, and it’s frustrating when you people you share a culture with represent you badly.
Tl;dr, Ali didn’t ask to be featured, Leila knows how to drive traffic to her blog, some members of the Black diaspora really need a come-to-Jesus meeting about their viewpoints, and there ARE White people fighting willful ignorance, but it’s like throwing marshmallows at a brick wall because there aren’t enough of them willing to go through the pain of doing so. Keep on keeping on, CherryBOMB.
Hey, I totes appreciate you sharing your ideas on what I said. Let me try and keep my response organized by numbering it too lol
1. Honestly, only the very last bit was directed at Ali. Like I said, I’m not mad at her (or other women like her outside of the movement). She got where people were coming from and wanted to show support by sending an email. Cool beans. Up to this point we are in agreement, I think. In fact, the only issue I had with the girl on CN was with a:How she distorted whole the point of the movement in her interview, and b:How she boo-hoo-hooed her white privilege tears all over social media for shits and giggles. If these two things didn’t happen, I wouldn’t have even mentioned Scrunchie in any of my comments. I wouldn’t even expect so much as an apology cause hey, she WAS invited. Ali did NEITHER of these things, so at this point of my comment, I have ZERO issues with her or people like her. As I also stated in my comment, I don’t know if she attempted to speak up in spaces not dominated by Black women, and if she did, I actually have NO problem with her! none at all. She did all she could.
What I DO find problematic is that Leila even asked her for this interview. Why’d she do it? Because she wants Ali’s opinion to be heard! That’s the point of an interview. And therein lies the problem I have. What’s the difference between the comments section and the article? The article is the center of the discussion, kind of like the camp leader, who decides the topic (Leila choosing to feature Ali) and the person holding the talking-stick (The comments). Ali’s opinion should NOT be the center of the discussion, even if she gets the issue imo. Again, we know the various opinions of white people already; we live in a white society. I knew Scrunchie’s “hair journey” before her CN post was even a thought. We all did. We’ve seen it played out in books, tv shows, commercials, magazines, movies, our own lives, you name it. Every tiny little variation? It’s been shoved down our throats. Hell, they just did a new Frizz-Ease commercial that was basically her journey! Where as the only example I can think of that even comes close to paralleling mine is Sanaa Lathan in Something New, where she takes out her weave to reveal… a rollerset? Relaxed braid-out? idk lmfao
To me, BGLH and CN did almost the same thing; Only difference is that Naturallycurly probably pushed CN to feature Scrunchie; who pushed Leila? Both of their goals were to offer the “brand new, never-before heard, totally ‘neglected’ *~white opinion~*” She (Leila) wanted everyone to know that HEY, NOT AAAALL WHITE GIRLS ARE ~LIKE THAT~ And for what? VIEWS and CLICKS. Because one teeny, tiny white feature isn’t THAT big of a deal, right? Sounds a little too close for comfort to me.
And again, NO FAULT to Ali; she didn’t even post her full name let alone a website or something. She has nothing to gain.
2. I agree, Ali’s response probably DID help someone see the light, but I really wish… idk, that she posted in the comments section or something, like that other girl in the first thread. I don’t remember her name, but I think she had like 3b hair and was from the Philippines. Her comment was similar to Ali’s and it resonated with a looot of people without being presented as “the focus”. I’m sure she changed a lot of minds.
3. I didn’t want Ali to talk about the NewBlack thing, either. I was trying to say that’s another issue we’re having right now that has nothing to do with Scrunchie, Ali, or non-Black people in general. It’s 100% about US and should be discussed by US. Many of us are afraid to be exclusive because we’re scared to shrink our target audience, which makes sense in other areas, but we dominate in beauty. Besides getting clicks, I think Leila’s also trying to keep us from burning her bridges with our comments lol I just think it’s an underlying issue that is one of the major causes of the constant gentrification of Black spaces. After all, it’s easy to take something if no one’s guarding it.
4. This goes with #1, I ain’t mad at Ali or those like her, even Scrunchie’s obtuse ass lol
5. I live in the NorthEast. The main issue I have with coddling and hand-holding is that it blows up in your face, fast. Your fiance(And Ali) are lucky to be getting thanks, but often times outside of safe spaces they will be met with anger on both sides, and it can cause MUCH MORE discouragement than if allies are taught that standing up for what’s right is often a thankless job. Even online, the minute you say anything short of THANK YOU SOOO MUCH all hell breaks loose. Think Sandra Bullock in the beginning of Miss Congeniality, or a guy who compliments you but calls you ugly when you don’t wanna give him your number (or doesn’t complement women ever again because of this one experience). If anything, they develop a thicker skin. One of my degrees has to do with critical race theory and this is how I was taught lol In a space like this, many of people agreed with me or thanked me, and even if they disagreed they’re well-informed, thorough and polite with their responses. IRL, especially outside of academia, it’s not like this AT ALL. Even though I’m in the NE (land of the liberals lol) I’m met with #NewBlacks and oblivious non-Blacks aaaaalll dayyy longg. Including in my own family. When I make comments IRL like the ones I’ve posted, MANY people Black or otherwise ain’t here for it, and ain’t nobody giving me cookies that’s for damn sure. This doesn’t faze me because I was well prepared. It’s tiring, but I know I can’t just give up and I can’t doubt what I’m saying just because people don’t want to hear the truth. It’s fine to thanks her I guess, but as far as I can see, I’m one of few telling Ali she’s not entitled to cookies, and hopefully knowing this she’ll be less afraid to speak up in unsafe spaces for fear of not getting praise. In most spaces, you don’t.
(I remember one episode of WWYD (hidden camera show) where this white woman was being racist towards the nail tech, and the other white woman featured called her out and told her to stfu or leave. All the workers pretended not to speak English, meaning the woman spoke out to an oppressor KNOWING she would probably not get a thank you. Depending on the clip, the racist woman would stay obtuse or just leave, but the women didn’t give up. This is soo important!!)
I guess I came off a bit harsh or nit-pickey, but I reaaally don’t want this movement infiltrated. I know not everyone is well-versed in this topic, but I forget sometimes lol. I don’t care if my comments keep bringing this site revenue tbh, as long as people are reading and thinking about what we’re saying. Thanks again, @Dananana.
Ooh, I just wish that Scrunchie would disappear into a dark corner somewhere and sit her ass down. I know what you mean… I’m going to go even more ham if yet another platform (have you seen the nonsense YTers are spouting?) suggests that wearing a bun or flat-ironing is equivalent to being pressured into slapping caustic chemicals on your head so you can get or keep a job. They can miss me with that nonsense. No, Leila doesn’t have Naturally Curly down her throat (on the surface, some of her comments were…interesting), but she has to maintain connections with advertisers, which seem to be largely White in origin. And yeah, I might be contributing to the problem by giving out cookies, but I kind of see it as the same as the methods I use to train my dog–positive reinforcement generally yields more acceptable behavior. I don’t feel like I’m coddling, because I normally go off when somebody says stupid shit…and this is why I keep having to find new jobs lol. I wish White people would stay strong in the face of ignorance from their own…but they’re not really conditioned to do that, so unfortunately, I think it will take time and other White people mobilizing. Race relations aren’t as en vogue for them as LGBTQ issues, so we might be fighting a while 🙁
Gah, I love talking to you and women like you–maybe we should start our own platform!
@Dananana I’m personally avoiding Scruchie’s social media as well as CN’s, but if mainstream media catches wind of this… God help us lol
Saying thanks is ok, but it’s important that people know that getting one a luxury. Most times you have to stand up for what’s right even if everyone’s telling you to shut up, or the people being degraded are not present to validate your efforts. I think there’s a growing number of people who get this, and it makes me warm and fuzzy inside ^__^
And yaas we need a show *2snaps* haha
“and this is why I keep having to find new jobs”.
this is awesome. i so lol’d with you right here.
Or a blog? If anyone *cough*especiallyCherryBOMBFinnPuffCaceyblacknerdloverAnon87*cough* is interested, email me at da*******@***il.com. Because I’m seriously considering it. Culture discussions are nice here, but I’m starting to really need a space for critical race theory that isn’t filled with tumblr trolls.
Slow Clap!
In total agreement, and yes, I find it inspiring when my fiance (called him husband before, but y’know we basically are married just without the funds right now) is also frustrated and pained by the ignorance and hatred that still prevails. I find it inspiring because, like Ali’s article, we are all people and can empathize with others, as long as we can get out of our own heads (“Getting out of our minds, getting into our lives”, a psychotherapy book) I think a lot of it comes from self-doubt and insecurity, and if we could all just deal with our own issues first and move on the path towards self-love, then empathy and love could spread much more easily. Ali’s comments shows me that in the end, we all are “one”, and then, we can truly see the other in our own reflection.
Could be because racism doesn’t sell, sweetie. You cannot have anything that is strictly black and expand your base or your wallet. If you hadn’t heard, America is a consumer society and the bottom line is the bottom line. I don’t understand why ppl are always shocked when this happens. Rappers do it all the time. You want black only, start your own not for profit blog and control the environment. Otherwise, recognize you do not live here alone. The so-called natural hair movement has not been patented for black women. And why are you so concerned about those who don’t “get it”. Why do they need to?
Saying that the cause of racism against Black People is our exclusion is not a strong argument. It’s not even an argument, actually.
Saying the consequence of an occurrence is the root of the occurrence is a fallacy.
That’s like saying a victim of sexual assault REALLY isn’t a victim because the rape would not have occurred if (insert dumb reason here).
Do better.
@Susie Black ppl spend about nine times more on beauty than any other group, so you’d lose way more money isolating Blacks than whites. Go ask Carol’s Daughter.
The rest of your comment was filler. Didn’t read.
Your snide sarcastic comments are exactly why I am on the “Teamnatural is for Black women” side. If White women have issues with natural hair, they can start their own spaces to discuss those issues. I will not intrude.
I think I understand where people are coming from.
This article would do better shared with white people even though I’m positive most will ignore it.
It being shared here does nothing because it only tells us what we already know.
Instead of going to the problem Curlynikki and Sarah. We are pretty much shown “hey a white lady agrees with us!” Good. Now….why aren’t you confronting those white women that feel they need to be included in everything.
What I mean is look at all the loud black women that cape for nikki and Sarah. Then crickets vice versa. It’s good Ali recognizes our position, but it honestly does nothing here.
We don’t need a mascot or someone to whisper “hey I agree with you”. Why are you whispering?? Tell the people causing this issue how you feel. Tell them what’s up.
This just proves to me how very few if any white women will stick up for black women and our causes. Yet I’ve seen many of these let’s all hold hands black women, sticking up for this Sarah and her ilk in droves. Yet, our non black backers are silent when not on a black board…. seems ironic.
Nothing against you Ali. But hopefully you understand. When there is a problem, you usually go to the person causing the problem. Not to the innocent to say “yea I know they are acting up over there, but I totally see where you are coming from.”
It does nothing to help the situation because the trouble makers are not being corrected, so they get to carry on in blissful ignorance. Their own are too afraid to correct them or basically just don’t care.
I may have a few errors. Forgive me I’m typing from my phone.
I don’t disagree but one reason no one can bring it to Nikki is that Nikki or whoever is now running that site is super quick on the delete and block. So just because comments aren’t appearing doesn’t mean things aren’t being said.
Hi ALL. I have posted comments on curly nikki and NHM and both have been deleted. Perhaps its because they don’t wish to acknowledge that there are people out there that are actually involved in this industry but from outside of its ‘culture’. My scientific knowledge of excessively curly hair is second to none. I have worked very hard to understand the characteristics of ALL hair types. I own the largest private collection of electron microscopy images of hair samples from African descent. I run workshops for fostering and adoption services teaching ALL carers how to cater for the needs of curly hair (this includes black men and women who have no skills with hair). I am a ‘texture’ expert for the worlds largest awarding body for hairdressing education for whom I write and edit their exams AND I own a recruitment company dedicated to texture experts. Obviously I don’t profess to understand being anything other than who I am – a member of the human race who celebrates everyone’s uniqueness. But I have to post the questions.. How many consultants that treat cancer patients suffer from cancer, how many gynecologists are men ?? We can understand that from which we do not hail.
Once again you Shelley, and women like you are TOTALLY missing the point that this is not just about the science of textured hair. This is about the systematic and dogmatic insistence that black hair conform to white hair… or black people conform to white standards. You sit on your “texture” perch an “expert” on curly hair… but you are not an expert on the culture of black hair struggles… there is a difference. Are there people of non color with curly hair? Yes. Have they experienced the promotion of self hate to such a degree that young girls have their hair chemically straightened as early as five years old… hell no. Understanding curly hair is one thing… understanding the curly hair struggle for a person of the african diaspora is another thing entirely. Why be offended by the truth? If You are a person who isn’t out of the african diaspora, I respect your love of natural curly hair, I love it even. However for a group of people who haven’t slightly experienced the struggle of being brown in a white world to feel entitled to be part of a movement born out of slavery, racism, brown paper bag societies, and last but not least the idea of “Good hair” is absurd at its best and quite honestly offensive at it worst. Having to explain this over and over again is the reason there are white people out there that don’t understand why some black people say the N word but they as white people can’t (without backlash). The reason is because most black people recognize those who have struggled like us.. there is a common pain there. When Popular culture wants to recognize and use something that is culturally black because its cool or trendy (Lupita Nyongo, corn rows, twerking, rap, and now natural hair, it becomes soul-less and overused precisely because the pain that caused this “cool” trend is overlooked by people who just haven’t gone through it. The cultural meaning is lost on those that have not experienced the struggle that brought about this phenomenon currently being usurped. This my friends, is reason for the need for exclusivity in the natural hair movement. Or else before long Kendell Jenner will be rocking an afro, and some major publication will call her a style genius for coming up with that NEW hair style, which spits in the face of those who’ve paved the nappy headed way. Ultimately, I get it, your hair is frizzy and difficult to you. However I can give you a list of hair situations that myself and others like me have experienced that you would simply be puzzled by. Simply put: sorry but your not #TeamNatural if you can’t relate.
This is by far he BEST response I have heard in this entire debate. it is GENIUS Shameka!! I couldn’t have put this better myself. WOW!!
Every point was PERFECT. just perfect. Brought a smile to my face 🙂 🙂
Sorry to be replying a day late! You are right. I caught wind of the articles a few days after they posted because I’m behind in all of my blogs and I thought my response would be too delayed to be relevant. I emailed BGLH directly because this is the site I follow.
I don’t follow any of the vloggers or websites that initiated the original posts so it never even occurred to me that I should email them too. That was my mistake. I totally do understand what you are saying and I’ll be sure to reach out to those people directly. Thanks for pointing out where I dropped the ball! I’ll do better in the future.
Yes, thank you. Women in our community will get up in arms over European issues, but never realize that white people historically never got up in arms for any of us. They won’t fight and die for our cause, that’s our job.
That’s funny because I distinctly remember many whites marching on Washington during the Civil Rights era. Oh, and let’s not forget the white abolitionists or the whites who voted for President Obama, not once, but TWICE. Selective memory is a bitch!
It’s not selective memory. For every abolitionist and freedom rider, there was about 10 times as many people who would disagree with their behavior. Very few people actually owned slaves. But the mindset that Black people are inferior, unfeeling, and deserving of terrible treatment was widespread. Slavery and White supremacy would not have gone on as long as it had, and it would not have been anywhere near as successful if there were as many people fighting for us as there were people fighting against change. I don’t believe most white people are the devil, and I doubt many people do.
What you’re failing to do is look at the whole picture. The points you’re using to try to discredit a lot of these arguments are very common, but also wrong. Very few white people hate us and want to destroy us, but there are about as many that are willing to come out and help us. Most white people don’t like to talk about race, because they instantly feel guilty and feel like you’re trying to say they owe you. It does not mean they’re racist, just caught up in what their privilege truly means. It makes them uncomfortable immediately. Then a lot of people see things the way you do, which is “It’s the Black Man’s fault he’s in the condition he’s in. We integrated years ago, and they can’t get it together!” Which is factually, logically, and morally irresponsible and passive aggressive.
Im so sick of white people having to be included in everything bgwlh is for what black girl with ling hair not whites wake up blacks whites dont want us in they shit hence Tommy Hilfiger etc.. why cant we have something of our own w/o having to apologize or explain it
Huh. Lol
Ya’ll can go ahead and retire that cape now.
We told ya’ll.
That whole Becky comment is so racist. I found what Ali had to say interesting and didn’t think this article legitimized this site to be exclusive for black women. She was respectful and I appreciated that.
I agreed with everything you said except for “That whole Becky comment is so racist”. I implore you to please read up on the fundamental differences between prejudice and racism.
The comment you are referring to may have stemmed from prejudice/bias, but if it came from a Black person or any person of color/minority, whose groups are clearly not in places of power or privilege, it simply cannot be racist.
I don’t find anything offensive about this article at all. I find Ali’s voice and perspective quite refreshing. I don’t feel at all that she is stepping on anyone’s turf. From my own personal experience I have had women of Caucasian descent come up and ask me about the regimen of my hair. In turn I take the time to answer them kindly and explain my natural regimen and the capabilities in what my hair is able to withstand or how it works under certain elements of heat,moisture and so on. I think it’s more out of healthy curiosity than any negative suspicion when I have been approached. In the end I’m open and totally fine with that.
You guys really have to get a life. As a Black women with natural hair, it’s absolutely embarrassing to know that this is how some of you behave. Just stop for a second and grow up! If you spent have the time not trying to purposely exclude people then your life would be better. Certainly no one likes it when WE are excluded so give up the self-righteous bullshit. Really, just grow up. It’s tired and been done before.
Considering ‘you’ and your ancestors have always been excluded, and this movement was created so that you and the rest of us could get some needed self esteem so you wouldn’t feel as bad as they did…you should hush Shirley.
And for the thousandth time, that word “exclusion” does not mean what you think it means. Here are some dictionary definitions, please utilize them in future conversation and debate.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen_Shot_2014-07-02_at_6.jpg[/img]
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Screen_Shot_2014-07-06_at_2.jpg[/img]
God Bless.
Smh. #NewBlack and #WhiteApologist alert!
Ok… interesting perspective — and it’s actually one that I’m not surprised to read. And as you stated BGLH, this is one perspective … but, how many others (this includes women of all races) feel like the instigator of this “controversy” over at CurlyNikki? A lot — same with some others who have this notion of “entitlement”… good, bad, indifferent — as your interviewee stated — it’s not ‘just about hair”…
As a white mom to two biracial children, with very different types of hair, this site has helped me tremendously as well. I have one adopted daughter and one biological, and their hair is as different as their personalities. This site has been awesome for me to be able to learn different ways of caring for their hair.
I’ve never even thought to be offended by the fact that the site is geared exclusively for black women, or by #teamnatural. I wish that my oldest would be more embracing of her natural self, and not wishing she were white, blond hair, and blue eyed. This site has been a great way for me to share with her the all of the possibilities she has!
Thanks!
If you want your children to embrace all of who they are you will have to teach them about black history. Don’t count on the school to do it. Bring them around black family or close friends often so they can be nurtured. Maybe even live in a diverse neighborhood if that’s not the case. Put up art that resembles them or magazine pictures of black and mixed women on their wall. I know that pictures helped with a friend of mine growing up. I don’t know much about your situation but I hope some of these suggestions can help you with your child.
Yep! There are a lot of myths and debunked things to read up on. In the even that you can’t get around Black people often, there are a bunch of sites that can teach them as they get older about their history. Like the above poster said, the school system will fail your children in that regard. A lot of the information that has been in the comments was information that had to be found independently. there are a few (note, few) Social Justice tumblr pages that can provide you with some really good information. But for now, show them all sorts women: from models like Alek Wek, Naomi, Beverley Peele ; actresses from as dark as Lupita to as light as Thandie Newton. DEFINITELY speakers/activists like Bell hooks/Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie/Assata Shakur.
If you’d like, I’m sure some of the posters (myself included) can point you in the direction to some sites that have many pictures/articles for your family. You can pick and choose the ones most suitable for your kids (age appropriate photos and all that).
My mom put all of us onto a lot of Black women (I’m adopted by white parents), and I was blessed enough to have a mentor who was knowledgeable and serious about educating me, my sisters, and my parents. A lot of kids do not get that, and I’m happy to know you are providing your daughters with something that is truly fascinating and expansive.
All the best! 🙂
This is the best line to me:
“We all benefit when we learn how to listen to the experiences of other groups.”
Not everything has to be about you in order for you to gain some benefit from it. And if you need to make something about you for you to gain something from it, then there is something wrong with you.
I would love to know why Ali didn’t stay with naturallycurly. I find it incredibly suspicious that most of the blogs (curlynikki) and the vloggers (African Export, Quest for the Perfect Curl, CharyJay) who are in favor of inclusion are all owned in whole or in part by naturallycurly. Maybe they are seeing their numbers dwindle at the main site and instead of tweaking it they are try to force their agenda (whatever it is) somewhere else.
This was an interesting article ..but also a political correct article …that was smooth and understanding , Although ,I still think she what you to mention her race just a tab bit to get her foot in the door however, you did told her to be honest . Somehow she is talking around the question you ask and not quit being direct: at least that’s what it sound like to me.
Keep up the good work missy.
As a community, we have far too many issues to solve than to be concerned about who is truly natural and who should be included in the natural hair discussion. I stooped relaxing my hair in 2007 because my hair never did well with relaxers and I was feed up with the breakage. My decision had nothing to do with being Afrocentric or embracing my heritAge because my hair never defined my existence as a black women. We really need to move past this race debt. Can we have any discussion about any topic with having a race debate? My God!
I agree with you!! I stopped perming my hair because I too was tired of seeing my hair being constantly dry and breaking off. Also, I wanted to cut back on expenses because I wanted to buy a house. It had nothing to do with ‘returning to my roots or ‘proving how proud I am to be black.’ I didn’t see myself as part of a ‘movement.’ We are facing losing our voting rights, our unemployment numbers are still off the chains, and our children are dying in rapid numbers to gun violence. Spending (wasting) time going back and forth over who’s natural, who’s a sellout, who should be included, who should be left out, or who is not combing and taking care of her child’s hair are NOT and should not be our point of focus. It’s JUST HAIR!
Yet here you are commenting. You have no idea how the rest of the commenters spend other moments of their time (possibly championing those other causes) yet you criticize.
I always hate the simplicity of those ” we should be worried about x instead of z” statements. In that case, we REALLY should be worried about climate control over gun violence…
In summary, get your life.
I agree it is just hair to some naturals. For other naturals it’s political or political as well. It is awesome when mutual respect is shown for the diverse reasons natural choose for being natural. Same for those with relaxers as well.
It’s honestly just hair for a lot of us. But a lot of us also understand that people who see us in pictures or on the street who don’t know us will not see it as “just hair”. Being aware of yourself and the workings of your society is not a bad thing. Whether we like it or not, plenty of people will forgo our individuality and lump us together for negative racial stereotypes and other things.
I’d rather be lumped in with people that want me to be a better version of myself than a group that works to see people fail just because they happen to have similar features.
Also @Tennille :shading things like being “afrocentric” and getting in touch with your “heritage” is a little NouveauBlack. We know you’re an individual, but you’re interchangeable with the next black person to a stranger.
So chill.
Couldn’t agree more. If this site was about general discrimination, our economic situation, the number of black men facing jail time unjustly, I could understand the rage. But the site is literally only about hair!! its rarely even about other aspects of black beauty, I’ve never even seen an article about how we are under-represented in the fashion and beauty industry, its less political than BOSSIP for crying out loud. I even understand (although ultimately I don’t agree) the argument about exclusivity but I don’t understand the rage…….
Actually, this site deals with discrimination and controversy in relation to Black hair. There are several articles about it.
In fact, there are 3 articles about race/hair/discrimination in that sorry Apartheid article. Even most “How to get the best out of (insert product here)” articles do touch on how our Hair is perceived. It’s at least mentioned in most articles (and comments).
Me too. Stopped in 97 cuz I was tired of spending my time in salons. Whites have always been accepting of my hair than blacks n I’ve worked in very conservative industries. As a young lady I worked on me, elevated my thinking and knew that no WW or BW for that matter was ever a threat to me or an impediment to me reaching my full potential. We’re so much more than hair n other aesthetics n that’s something we have to teach n embrace. Natural hair is becoming another distraction.
Stop being solipsistic! Stop invalidating the experiences of other people. Stop invalidating the experiences of your predecessors!
Your experiences are valid, trust, but they do not trump the facts that led up to creation of the movement. Your experience is valid, but it does not trump the majority, who just so happen to be experiencing a much less aggressive version of the behavior that was taking place during the 20th century.
If most of us are having these issues, and it can proven with testimony/data/facts, and has been going on for centuries, the problem is you. We are more than Hair and aesthetic.The movement which taught acceptance of our hair and acceptance, was started in congruence with other initiatives to empower the Black community. The movement was/still is a minor ripple in the much larger wave for Black Excellence.
The point is we have to deal with the issues of the majority. Since, ya know, that’s where MOST of the issues are. If you can’t identify, just keep it cute and don’t comments. We know not everybody is on the cliche Return to the Motherland/Ankh journey you see on TV, most people aren’t. I can’t identify with growing up without being involved with my father, or just having parents who are divorced..I’m one of the only people I know who’s parents have stayed together.but you don’t see me out here “BUT I DIDN’T EXPERIENCE THIS! WHAT ABOUT ME?!” I didn’t know there were really folks out here who had half-siblings (some of whom did not know their own fathers….or that they had different dads at all) and lived under the same roof…but plenty of my friends do, and they managed to turn out to be good people. But I’m not out here acting like they’re just being extra for the sake of being down because I personally didn’t go through what they have.
You wanna build a community up? Stop trying to separate yourself from their experiences. Obviously if the majority are making a fuss about experiencing the same thing, it’s a problem you weren’t exposed to by the Grace of God. Accept people for their differences, and stick to the one message: BLACK EXCELLENCE. Black wealth, Black beauty, Black knowledge, Black unity. We can’t be unified if folks are out here tryna do them and be special. If you want individuality, get the hell out of a movement that pushes for unity!
I understand ur passion but my position us and had always been there is no single story so there’s no single sokution. The natural community is diverse n we need the discussions and s options to be multi – faceted. I understand ur passion tho n was not trying to invalidate ur experiences. Just because I agreed n shared my story w the lady doesn’t make ur perspective less valid. There’s no one single or right story, perspective n solution. That has been my point all along.
Is not us. Posting from cell phone for all the spell checkers! Lol
This is what white America want arguments,debates,and division in our Afro-communities. Instead of unity, education, and progression. History has taught us this!!!! Also, history has proven that whites have done the same thing the young lady being interviewed has done. Set back, steal our ideas, and learn our culture so they can continue to keep use divided. Now post this to your website so all can see!!!!
Yes, we can stop making everything about race when “they” stop making everything about race. Racism is not our problem, it is theirs. “They” have a problem with people who do not look like them. Yes, it’s exhausting having these debates over and over again. But that’s because it continues to be a problem for them.
Unfortunately, people of colour (not just black people) by and large have not freed themselves of forced white ideologies (which is a world wide problem). White supremacy is so dominant, that we as a collective have allowed ourselves to be dictated and controlled by it. That’s why we’re in this pickle…
As long as they “rule”, their problems will always be everyone else’s problem.
Awesome! It feels good to see that we can have something to ourselves and not be seen as racism or the like. I don’t see how a group of people who were discriminated against and excluded can want/make something just for us and then be called racist. Gosh can we win one for once!
Great interview Ali, but the issue was not about BGLH and it being a platform for white curlies too. This issue as I understand it, is whether white ppl can say #teamnatural. But this interview is about BGLH, so……..
Great interview! Very insightful – thank you for posting this. 🙂
I don’t think it’s racist for black women to have a place of there own about our hair. Our hair is unique compared to other cultures. Yes white women can have 3c hair and so on but it’s not the same. Black women need a space to feel beautiful, for once in history we have our own positive image of beauty and I don’t think white women she feel the need to complain because they can’t be apart of this. We should come together as humans but have our own community. I have nothing against white women, a lot of my family is white and others bi-racial but to have our own isn’t wrong
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/image-15.jpg[/img]
I think Ali did an amazing job expressing her feelings about this site and about her own struggle to accept her hair.
I also think it was an excellent choice for BGLH to invite this point of view. I don’t get the anger about someone of another race sharing such positive thoughts about natural hair and about BGLH in particular. People would have (rightly) furious if she had been negative or hateful, but now some are angry because she was positive and supportive???
Isn’t part of the point of the natural hair “movement” to help everyone, not just black women to not only accept natural hair but to love it? How will that happen if no one sees these things outside of us?
🙂 <3
Yep. Lol
Great interview! I loved the different perspective. Thanks Ali!
Thank you Ali for presenting your viewpoint so eloquently and respectfully! It’s relieving to know that some White women understand why a lot of us want this space to be our own and aren’t personally upset by that desire. I think it’s really great that this site has helped you learn about your hair, our hair, and the culture surrounding it all, and I seriously hope that you stick around! And don’t be scared to comment–I love reading ALL perspectives on this site (even ones that I don’t agree with), and based on what you said above, I’d love to hear yours more 😀
I’ll be around, Dananana! I usually don’t comment because I feel like I should be listening rather than speaking. Other posters have pointed out that my comments might be better for other sites where these discussions happen. After thinking it over, I agree with them so I’ll probably remain quiet here but do a better job speaking up elsewhere.
I appreciate Leila inviting me to post here all the feedback I’ve gotten. I’ve gotten a lot to think about! All in all, I’ll probably continue to learn in the background to be mindful of your space.
the voices of black women expressed on this site were ENOUGH. although I understand the good intentions behind this article, it is also highly problematic. we do not require whiteness to legitimize our experiences and emotions. this tim wise-esque co-sign was unnecessary or rather misplaced on BLACKgirllonghair (most of whom are in the know). Please cc this to becky, felicia et al instead
I understand what you are saying nina. And I respect how you feel. The only reason we made the decision to include Ali’s voice is that we noticed many black readers were speaking on behalf of our white audience, making assertions about how they feel. Whether it was our writer Jc referring to this as apartheid, or other commenters saying that our space was hostile, we felt it was important — given the discussion — for a non-black reader to speak on her own terms. Ali’s voice is not to legitimize us, but to offer her perspective. This was a unique situation, and we stand behind what we’ve done. But I do understand how you feel. Just wanted to offer clarification.
I would like to thank both to you and Ali for this interview it was really interesting.
I appreciate your inclusion of Ali’s comments but wish that more Caucasian women like her would express their views directly to “Felicity” AND to Nikki. Sadly I think her views would fall on deaf ears, as did those of us who expressed anger & disappointment about the feature. This issue would have died down days ago had that chick not been so dismissive in the face of the controversy she thirsted for; compounded by Nikki’s sel-serving “response”. Given the reactions of not only Nikki but several prominent vloggers/bloggers, I am convinced that this was a troll stunt geared towards increasing Nikki’s profile with non-Black women that Nikki co-signed.
I came to that conclusion as well.
Nikki’s response added fuel to my mind about that.
I appreciate your inclusion of Ali’s comments but wish that more Caucasian women like her would express their views directly to “Felicity” AND to Nikki. Sadly I think her views would fall on deaf ears, as did those of us who expressed anger & disappointment about the feature. This issue would have died down days ago had that chick not been so dismissive in the face of the controversy she thirsted for; compounded by Nikki’s self-serving “response”. Given the reactions of not only Nikki but several prominent vloggers/bloggers, I am convinced that this was a troll stunt geared towards increasing Nikki’s profile with non-Black women that Nikki co-signed.
Even if they express it, my fear is we would never know. I don’t think if she had sent e email to them they would have post it like BGLH. Thank you for the honest post.
Hi @BGLH, I just wanted to thank you for posting this and patiently and thoughtfully responding to all the discussions. You all did a marvelous job of balancing the major points of views and as women in journalism (and yes what you’ve done here is journalism), you have done a tremendous job that would rival any major media outlet. You’ve remained fair throughout and you’ve handled everything with such tact and grace.
I know a lot of women have been critical about sharing Jc’s opinion and now Ali’s but I think this was a great time to have these sort of discussions from all points of view. There’s no reason to miss an opportunity to learn about how many people feel about this topic. I’ve been pretty active in talking with other people and I’ve learned a lot and got to share my experience and thoughts.
Although at times it would get heated, I think this is one of the things that makes Black culture such a beautiful thing. We have this spirit of discourse and passion. Though Black culture is not exactly treated the same way around the world we have this shared history of oppression and we can learn a lot from each other when we get a chance to talk about our experiences and how we feel about them. If you didn’t share varied view points we wouldn’t have anything to talk about.
You have created a wonderful platform for all people to learn about Black women and our varied experiences. Thank you so much and keep doing what you do!
I want to thank you for including this article for the reasons you stated.
I was conflicted about my reaction to this issue primarily because I have such a diverse group of friends (white, Hispanic, Asian, etc) and wondered if my view on exclusivity was, I guess you could say, hypocritical because I CARE about my friends’ feelings. (I emphasize CARE because I do not rely on my friends to “approve” or “validate” my decisions – which has been a accusation I’ve seen repeated on comments the past couple of days. ) While I still do think that the original BGLH article and that some ladies (on this site and others) could have handled this sensitive issue with a little more tact, I agree that we need a forum just for us to discuss our issues and encourage each other.
I was also disappointed by Nikki’s response to all of this. While I agree that with her that she has done a lot of good for the community and does, predominantly, feature black women, her attack on the author of the Essence article and bringing up the magazine’s past wrongs was tacky.
It wasn’t about legitimizing our experience, it was about saying she respects our space and appreciates what BGLH has taught her about privilege. And personally I feel better knowing a ww was listening and waited to be asked before going off in the comments about her opinion.
Oh, she”respects” our space……While invading it, *deep sigh* here is the thing, her voice was not needed period, end of sentence. Like someone said up thread “other” voices should be irrelevant and most definitely not spotlighted, this space is not about them so why in the he’ll are we making it?
So ironic right! They still needed the white stamp of approval after all the noise about BGLH being a platform for only ‘black’ women. This is fine as long as the WW agrees w u! Exclusivity is not the issue, mental slavery is! You can be exclusive all u want, but until u emancipate urself from mental slavery, ull always be in chains! Speaking in general and ‘you’ is not being directed to anyone in general.
Not ironi, meant hypocritical!
ROFLMFAO at Ironi!!!! OMG, I can’t…
Lady I’m posting from a cell phone- sue me!
I agree with. However, I don’t mind her express herself. But black when should have a space of their own. Every other race does.
Mental slavery?? You want to talk about mental slavery…
1. This white girl — who you defended AT LENGTH in previous articles written about this topic — disagrees with EVERYTHING. YOU. SAID. All the noise about how terrible and awful and racist black women are for “excluding” white women in the natural hair movement. She disagrees with it all. She is probably confused as to why you, Jojo, are setting yourself up as the savior of curly white girls when, as Ali stated, they don’t even NEED a space like this.
2. Instead of criticizing the white girl — who disagreed with EVERYTHING. YOU. SAID. You come for the BLACK WOMAN who published her opinion.
Mental slavery?? Who’s the one with mental slavery?
SMH.
I never disagreed w this white girl. Hell, I didn’t even read what she had to say cuz I don’t need her perspective as I don’t think this debate had anything to do w her. FURTHER, I never defended Sarah. Rather, I defended Nikki’s right to choose who to feature on her blog n I’m pointing out BGLH hypocrisy. The big bad white woman doesn’t scare or intimidate me so I have no issue w them partaking in a site such as this. Over hundreds of black women voiced their opinion n concurred w BGLH yet it was not enough until a WW validation was sought n given. Was she too good to write her comments in the Comments section? BGLH clearly stated their position n yet did quite the opposite only to ‘prove’ they’re right cuz a white woman agrees. It’s like SEE, WE TOLD YALL WE WERE RIGHT N EVEN A WW AGREES W US N HERE THE PROOf! #MENTALSLAVERY
Jojo, I did not follow along with all of your comments. But I remember you specifically taking strong issue with BGLH’s definition of #teamnatural as a black woman’s movement and saying something like they were trying to force that definition on others.
You did not JUST have beef with people criticizing CurlyNikki’s choice — you had beef with the whole discussion on who should and who should not be represented in the natural hair movement.
And even if, as you say, BGLH has “mental slavery” (eye roll), it does NOT detract from the fact that you have fought in this comment box — TOOTH AND NAIL — to make the point that non-black women should be included in a movement that BGLH clearly stated, multiple times, was created by and for black, bi-racial and Afro-Latina women. And that is largely being led by African American women (most vloggers, bloggers, product companies, natural hair event companies are coming out of black America).
You are fighting for people — like Ali — who have NOT asked you to fight for them. And are probably confused as to why you are fighting. #mentalslavery Take that energy to make your own life better. Instead of feeling like you have to please and defend folks who don’t know you and, very likely, don’t care.
Yes, forcing exclusion on others such as Curly Nikki and bloggers like her who want to be more inclusive. That’s what I meant and said. I’m fighting for the blogger’s choice. I have a problem with people dictating how someone manages their content just because that person is black with natural hair and have a blog that feautres NH. You cannot show me any statement where I so called fought for a WW, even in the comments section in this post. Let’s not misrepresent the facts!
I agree, this is the truth and it sad.
felicia? don’t you mean Joan?
I wish that as black women, instead of fighting for complete exclusivity, could see that this natural hair movement has the ability to inspire ALL types of women all over the world.
it’s the birth of natural acceptance that started with us and spread all over the world.
Honestly black women need a space of there own. The young lady basically said this when she said white women really don’t have a problem with finding sites for their hair.
i dont think u get it. its not about exclusivity, its about encouraging our OWN PEOPLE. we have been put down for centuries due to our skin color and hair and now we want to say “hey we want something of our own to better our self esteem, energy balance, happiness” but u are saying nah lets make it for everyone?? there have been times in history that we have allowed whites in and have stupidly ended up losing the entire movement – or in some cases its just seen as some trend. does my natural hair look like a trend to you? because i know that dreadlocks is seen as trendy to many white people i know. but my kinky curly fro is a way of life, who am i, how i was born. so dont u dare boil it down to exclusivity.
IT IS EMPOWERMENT.
and sue me, im 18 years old but ive got a voice.