by
The Natural Haven
![website_image_for_Curls[1]](https://i0.wp.com/bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/website_image_for_Curls1-600x266.jpg?resize=600%2C266&ssl=1)
BGLH writer Jc presents a different point of view about who deserves to be represented in the natural hair movement. Check it out;
Show of hands – Do you agree and advocate that there should be spaces reserved for black people to discuss thoughts and ideas central to our culture and that these spaces should be to the exclusion of other races? Yes, no, maybe? Now, substitute the word black with white in that first sentence and read it again, seriously do it now! Do you realise that we are discussing apartheid? If you believe that the principles of apartheid were racist, then when black people do it, it is also racist.
Now let me explain to why it is that I believe that we as the natural community should be inclusive and not exclusive:
1. We are individuals not a collective, a white girl could relate to your experience
It is absolutely not true that every black woman can identify with a journey to self love, some of us can’t. Some of us actually grew up being told that we were beautiful as we are and our hair was beautiful as it is. It is a very myopic point of view to think that black people as a collective have the same journey, we don’t, we are individuals.
Some white women would actually be able to identify with that journey to self love because, ‘Curly hair is generally not cute past the age of 10.’ These words came from my white friend who beat her curls into submission with daily blowouts and flat ironing for 20 years. Some black people are conditioned to think a type 3 curl is the ultimate aka good hair, while some white girls are taught that poker straight hair is the ultimate good hair and their type 3 curls are ugly.
The reason why some #teamnatural stories resonate across the board is because it is not about race. It is about the ability to empathise as human beings to see how damaging it can be to be pounded down with a message that you are not good enough as you are.
2. Those who can teach!
Ultimately the nucleus of the natural community is hair. We celebrate and advocate for the beauty of natural hair Do you recall posts such as these white dads who really can do hair – here and here or the white mom who doesn’t want her black daughters hair touched – here . Many white moms and dads who have black or mixed race children will be right here trying to learn and do what is best for their children.
I have an elephant’s memory and I can recall on the old blogspot version of this blog where curly girl YSheena was originally featured and a white mom asked how she could get her daughter’s frizzy hair that she was considering chemically straightening to look like Ysheena’s which was ‘pretty and curly’. Commenters tore this lady to pieces and she of course disappeared. This predatory knee jerk reaction fails to educate and if you ever have the opportunity to, you should educate first, condemn last. How many black mothers have done the same?
I want an inclusive space because I advocate for children. Children with non-black parents who are keen on learning deserve a welcoming space both for parent and child. Exclusion is a disservice to the parents and the children.
3. Practice what you preach
If you find a natural site, you will almost always find articles about lack of acceptance of natural hair by others in the community, white and non white for example:
–Case of the doctor perpetually insulting the patient’s natural hair
–Case of the guy with locs who dislikes his girlfriend’s natural hair
–Case of the boss who said her natural hair looked like a troll doll
It would surprise some of you but many of these comments are said not in blatant racism but usually in ignorance. Ignorance that natural hair is actually the default and most ‘normal’ version of your hair. My husband who is white actually thought that black people mostly had straight hair. If you grew up in his home town where there was exactly 1 black girl, and the imagery you received from TV was all relaxed hair and weaves, what would you think?
Natural hair is not mainstream despite the explosion of the natural world and in all honesty it is not going to be unless we begin to tell our stories to the mainstream which happens to be white if you live in North America and Europe. If you want acceptance, you need to start accepting others into your clique otherwise why should they care about your stories, how would they see their poignancy and relevance?
The Conclusion : Since I started this piece with an apartheid reference, I will end it with some wise words that I liberated from the eternal sage Nelson Mandela, ‘ To be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.’
578 Responses
Why is BLACK girl with long hair posting this drivel?
Articles like this really, really bother me. 1) It is completely devoid of context and operates under the assumption that all women have the same historical history of their hair. As if black women have had the same history of acceptance and admiration as white women. As if the notion of “black is beautiful” wasn’t rife with the same sentiments of appearing exclusionary. As if any rejection of whiteness automatically becomes an expression of anti-white exclusionary practices when, in reality, it is merely about self love and acceptance while existing within a white patriarchal society. 2) There are several instances that showcase that, while the author is absolutely entitled to their opinions, they lack the academic background to support their claims. One blatant example of this is the idea that black people can be racist in the US. Clearly Jc has decided to ignore (or never has encountered) the widely accepted sociological definition of racism which boils down to prejudice + power = racism. Namely that in order to be racist in a society, you have to have institutional backing supporting your prejudice ideals. I’m babbling at this point, and I never comment on articles, however, pieces like this really, really upset me. They completely overshadow the work scholars, activists, and black folk do a daily basis for the sake of some “inclusionary” message which pretty much screams: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE PEOPLE GUYS??? Sigh.
I hear you Calista. I’m black, with biracial children, who have non black cousins with hair ranging from curly to afro-like. Learning my hair is one thing; learning each of theirs is another. And while I like the idea of a place to discuss things pertaining to my culture and learn about my culture (as I am sure there are such forums for your own ) one thing we can all come together on is this :we are women plagued with eurocentric ideals of beauty and are learning to be the beauties we were naturally created to be. It’s hair for crying out loud. If we want to segregate our woes, so be it. Let there be a place for that. But specifically learning how to properly care for and style our hair is another thing that is universal and transcends ethnicity.
A white woman (with gorgeous curls) opened up a curly hair salon that caters to the study and care of curls, from funky unruly waves to 4c, and every combination in between and you wouldn’t believe the difficulty of getting booked. Even proclaimed natural hair salons weren’t doing what she did. They simply wanted to straighten or weave up hair….maaaybe work a stretched style if you’re lucky. Meanwhile, the curly salon was showing us how to rock or curls, love them, and care for them, how to make them their best. It wasn’t a color thing. It was a hair thing, a place for us all to bond over similar struggles and celebrate our wins.
I agree…we need an online forum like that. Nonjudgmental, nondiscriminating, nondivisive. A place where we can all learn from each other. A place where originations don’t matter (not like it’s not documented in the Web anyway…really not that hard to credit or find an OP). Though id hope this site would be such a place, it clearly is not.
And to think, as much crap as we blacks have been through you’d think wet be the most welcoming ethnic group or there, not wishing to inflict the ilk that had been inflicted on us. Instead we are extremely spiteful and all about an eye for an eye. Smh…
White People: Exclude black people and only showcase whites.
Black People: Points out the lack of blacks being showcased.
White people: Stop complaining and create your own.
Black People: Create our own shows, awards shows, movies, and movements to celebrate blacks.
White People: That’s racist. You don’t see whites having a white entertainment network.
No no no to them. They are going to steal our ideas send it to their white media and say they created it And that They even thought black women how to take care of their hair. Don’t forget they use our face to get what they want and take over. We have to stop including other races into our affairs.
Natural black hair movement is one thing, but I don’t think non-black parents should be attacked for their ignorance. It’s like the article says, educate instead of criticizing. Neither of my parents are african american (nor curly) but somehow I ended up with curls. My mother didn’t know how to care for my hair when I was a child and I always looked a MESS. If she would’ve had a natural hair blog at her fingertips, she may have done better with my hair. I eventually accepted my curls and quit using relaxers and permanent hair straighteners. I have almost 10 years that I don’t chemically straighten my hair. I still get comments about my curls, that I should use the brazilian keratin to permanently straighten it, etc. Especially since I am mexican and have lived the last 4 years in Mexico….
let me give you an expecific and recent example. there is this dance (kizomba) which is from angola. now there is white people doing it too. and guess what they changed it. in few years they will say they created it. white people easily penetrate in what we create an later own take as theirs, however, the reverse never happen. they make us work hard to be accepted in it or to take whatever we want. so why should it be ok to include them? …
Natural Hair Movement = Black women. Every time blacks “include” others we are always erased from whatever we create and our voices drowned out.
I’ve changed my way of thinking on this subject. While some of the comments here still deeply offend and trouble me, I have to agree that the way natural hair is perceived socially is different for Black women than it is for White women. While curly hair is seen as romantic and fun on a White women, the same curly hair will be seen as unkempt and in need of a comb on a Black woman, and is often and openly made fun of. Therefore while it is fine for there to be communities/blogs that cater to both, there should always be outlets for Black women (including those who identify as bi-racial or “mixed”) to share their experiences and learn from each other in an effort to form a sisterhood we can gravitate toward when society is throwing us it’s massive curve balls.
Have white women ever lost jobs due to having curly hair? Were they ever pressured to chemically straighten or cut it in order to be given some opportunity of advancement? Were they passed up as marriage prospects simply because of the texture of their hair, or grow up not even knowing what texture it is? Was curly Euro hair ever placed on a face made into caricatures/cartoons to be ridiculed? Until they have gone through these experiences, I don’t think they should expect to be included in this arena.
Yes- yes it has happened. I have had all of these experiences. I struggled for years with my hair, was made fun of for having a “fro” (not a true Afro- used as an ignorant term), had people try to touch and spring my hair, been asked “what are you”, and fought my actual texture with chemicals and different cuts until my late 20s. I’ve gotten more of a sense of self (in terms of my hair) by using natural hair products and techniques than I ever did in the “white” beauty space.
In full disclosure, I am Arab and Jewish but am white to the casual observer. I recognize my passing privilege is real, and I encourage the community to look beyond apparent skin color. Those of us who are fair-skinned but don’t fall into the mainstream world of white beauty are simply looking for a place to belong- not to take over, not even to lead- just to listen and learn. I personally have no interest in being catered to as I realize this is a place for Black Women, but I hope the community can find space to allow those who can relate and want to ask questions and otherwise participate.
So sick of white people crying every time they aren’t in the spotlight for once I see plenty of sites dedicated to them commercials products and see lots of curly haired white girls on tv and movies . They are accepted in this racist society we aren’t shut the freak up and go to naturally curly.com and the millions of websites dedicated to you !
If white girls with curly hair want advice there is naturally curly and lots more other websites. I like that bglh is for black ladies and hopes it stays that way, white women are welcome to read the site but shouldn’t complain that is almost exclusively because it is intended for black women who have similar experiences and problems not just in regards to hair. Like face it, white women do have it easier than us which is why this blog exists in the first place. To help black women
I usually don’t comment, but I had to say something about this foolishness! First off, the author of this article TOTALLY missed the point of why people are upset about this particular issue. And because of that ignorance, she is using terms/phrases that do NOT apply to the issue at hand.
The “Natural Hair Movement” and #TeamNatural was made for and by black women. This movement served one purpose; to uplift, encourage, and educate black women on their hair. Now the “Natural Hair Movement” has expanded into more than just hair which is great. But at the end of the day, the main purpose is still to uplift, encourage, and educate BLACK WOMEN!!! BLACK WOMEN!!! Not white, hispanic, asian, indian…etc. Now I’m not at all saying that women who are not black can’t visit our blogs, webistes, YouTubes and/or even support us, but it would be extremely stupid for them to think that they would be represented or featured in this movement. That is where the problem is. Non-blacks trying to push their way into something that was not designed for them. We are not purposefully trying to exclude them, the fact of the matter is that this was not created for them. And that is okay.
For example, a person has no right to get mad that a clothing store doesn’t sell food! The purpose of a clothing store is to sell clothing, not food. The same analogy can be used here. The purpose of #TeamNatural is to uplift, encourage, and educate black women. So a white woman has no right to feel upset because clearly #TeamNatural was not created to cater to white woman. And guess what, THAT IS OKAY!!! We are entitled to have our own cultural movement just as other nationalities are entitled to having their own holidays. Regardless of whether a non-black person has curly, kinky, or coily hair, this movement was still not made to cater to them. By all means they learn and educate themselves from our knowledge, but don’t expect to be represented/featured/or catered to when this was not created for you. That is just ignorance on their part. Oh and by the way, if your hair is unprocessed your are technically wearing your “natural” hair, but that does not mean you are apart of the “Natural Hair Movement” or #TeamNatural in regards to the black community. They should come up with their movement or phrases if they so badly want to be included in something.
This mentality is just as racist as the exclusive golf clubs of yesteryear that didn’t allow blacks or women.
Just as skin color and gender don’t mean you can’t be good at a sport, they also don’t mean that people if all shades don’t have hair issues.
Bone straight hair is an ideal that the majority of the planet can’t live up to without help. Many of the so-called white beauty ideals (realistically nordic ideals) are the result if early 20th century American product marketing that effectively pandered lies to get people’s money.
There are TONS of horror stories from non-black women who have had nearly identical stories of belittling and struggles with their hair, many of whom have learned to embrace and manage their natural hair precisely because of the natural hair care movement started by black women.
Realistically, there is little among humans that remains exclusive because we are always looking outside ourselves and across cultures for ideas & variety. We all have something to contribute to the world.
Solving a problem that affects many is something to be proud of, not to be selfish about. That may not have been the original intent, but it happened anyway. Just like birth control pills started out as acne medication and spurned the growth of an industry that solved a problem that was universal. And the clothing store selling food is an awful analogy. Just terrible. No.
When are you changing the name of the site? No shade. For all those who is offended by black women conversation go to MixedChicks.com
It’s like having a gathering of black women, but white women with olive complexions want to join in the gathering because they are “black” too.
Not only does our hair have some unique needs, but there is more to it than hair. Skin color is more than the brown melanin in our skin, isn’t it? Our hair means more to us than the kinks and curls. It’s a fact that it isn’t as socially acceptable to wear our natural textures, and we STILL experience discrimination over it.
We can relate to each other as human beings and women of course, but sometimes people simply want to have their own space to relate to people who have a similar background. I’m not racist because I like to talk to other black women about black issues.
We can all learn from each other, but you don’t have to be an active participant in things that you can’t possibly fully relate to. Know when to sit on the sidelines and cheer instead of running in a race that you don’t belong in.
First, the biggest enemy black people face concerning their hair natural hair texture as of TODAY is themselves. We are still harboring and holding on to negative images and associations that we project onto ourselves and these views we share with the world. (Check Sheryl Underwood’s comments if you need a reference) If we (I’m talking to my 4 range haired people here) would stop swooning and carrying on over every hair texture that’s not like ours, the bulk of this self-hatred that we think exist for our hair would dissipate. WE are the one’s perpetuating it, we are the primary one’s fueling the hatred. I don’t read or see other people obsessing over the texture of our hair. It starts and stops with us.
Having state that, because of these insecurities that many of us have to deal with and given unique historical and modern-day circumstances, this is something that Caucasians and other groups can not specifically relate to, so we do need our own forums for support to deal with these problems. Western media bombards most countries on this planet with its ideals of beauty. 4 range hair is the farthest from what is marketed as “the norm” in terms of sex appeal leaving our women and young girls to have to combat all of these images. We need our own space and platform to do that. Honestly, hair closer in texture to Anglo-Saxon hair is constantly lauded for beauty, even in non-European media sites. So give people their space to do their own thing to focus on themselves for a change.
Very well said!
I really didn’t need to read anything past the first paragraph. You hit the nail on the head. This is the first post that I’ve read from JC outside of hair science blogs. I absolutely love this. Thanks for sharing and I totally agree!
Hello all, I think this will be my last comment as this has become a discussion about the issues that Black women continue to grapple with; the very same discussion the majority of people here do not want White women to be involved. From the majority of the comments I would say that Black women would like a website/blog where they can feel free to debate and discuss these issues and also to share valuable tips and information targeted to Black women. However, of course White, Latina or Middle Eastern women (I haven’t seen anyone talk of Middle-Eastern or North African people who appear as White people but have different types of curly hair as well), can gain valuable information as well. I think want incited this debate is that Black women do not want White women to comment on the issues within the Natural Black Women community because it would be inciting (as in the case here), confusing and has the potential to be divisive. Using words such as exclusive and inclusive were already provoking strong reactions and were meant to do so. However, I do not see anything wrong, racist, unethical, immoral or whichever adjective has been used to describe the want and need to have a community that caters to all natural Black females. ‘Tis all.
Best comment I’ve seen so far. Thank you!
And where do us mixed girls stand?!?!?!?!?!??!
wow. so shocked at these comments.
it’s a movement of embracing natural hair, yes.
but we can learn things from one other, may not be useful, no
but come on it’s a website, why is everyone getting so pissy!!
my lord.
I’m so confused at your comment? If you’re mixed with black, you’re too a black woman. No one is arguing about mixed women, and neither is anyone talking about including white women in this website, theyre going to do what they want to anyway, we’re arguing about the movement as a whole.
Child, don’t being up that you’re mixed. The afrotextured hair patrol will arrest and perm your hair until it looks like their’s! LOL! Seriously, have you seen the things that are said about women that are featured on this site that are biracial?
Another straw man argument.
We are talking about white people co-opting the term “natural.”
Ain’t nobody said nuthin’ about anybody mixed.
So in your estimation, black women coined the term Natural? It was not in use before that? Come on, that’s just ridiculousness.
You know good & hell well I’m not saying that.
Next.
Actually, I DON’T in fact know “hell well” but I can read what you posted. See if you can do the same.
Try reading for comprehension, then get back to me.
Learn to use your words properly, then and only then, move on!
you have probably started a fight with everyone that has commented! You picked a fight with me (twice), your’re picking a fight with HeavensGirl, and you continue to start arguments. And the worst part is that every time you start to fight i have to get an email about it! if you don’t like how we feel, then do us all a favor and go somewhere else. Im sure you’ll fit in just fine at CurlyNikki!
Way to deflect. You respond to my post, but I’m the one starting the fight? Yeah. O.K. Move on!
OK now I see your elevator doesn’t go all the way up! I should have guessed I was arguing with a crazy bish.
I think it’s hilarious that you are trying to explain what Latina is, and where they come from to a woman who has a Grandmother from Puerto Rico? My grandmother who happens to be WHITE was from the Caribbean DUH so yeah I think I would know a little bit about it. Go home you’re off your medication it appears! My goodness you just simply rant on and on about things that make no sense? You never know when to shut up! Why?
Shakira’s RACE is white!! You don’t have to explain what race IS to me. Nothing in my comment had anything to do with what you just said!
Never indicated that I didn’t know that there is a difference between race and nationality! Please stop wasting everyone’s time with your childish bs and shut your trap! You’re not saying anything that remotely makes any sense to the discussion? You’re a basket case! I think you could start an argument in an empty house and you probably do talk to yourself you nut case! Have several seats please. Thanks.
Oh and you DO realize, this picture below is how YOU look to everyone on here right?
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/kimmy.jpg[/img]
Yes, because calling names makes you sound oh so intelligent and mature. Do move on. See, I realize you need to be angry with someone, but you are expending far too much energy on someone you do not know and likely will never meet. I appreciate that I mean that much to you, but now it’s getting kinda creepy! LOL! Go forth. Find a friend.
bsbfankaren
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/planet.jpg[/img]
Please, move on. Get your life, and make a friend or two. Reconnect with your family. See, then you can spend far less time concentrating on me and my thoughts, and feel so much better about yourself in the process!
@anecine
I had to laugh when I read your reply bc I was JUST thinking the same thing about those emails: “Another one? Seriously??”
lol
And yet I’ve not piked a fight with anyone, but have simply responded to posts. It’s always interesting with overtly aggressive verbiage is used to deflect from what is a simple disagreement.
Since your mixed (I’m mixed too) you’d be considered black. Nobody said anything about mixed/biracial girls.
I do not considered mixed people as black never did and majority of the black race do not claim mixed race people.
Then to you 80% of Black people are not black since that is the estimated percentage of Americans of African descent who are in fact bi or tri racial and therefore “mixed.”
Had your DNA tested? Who kniws? You may not be Black enough either!
I honestly am surprised to see the small but significant number of black readers to say that this site and the natural hair movement should recognize white people with curly hair, as well as black people. I must disagree with that statement, considering that white woman, as a group, have never had to conform to society’s definition of “pretty,” by straightening their hair to avoid ridicule, embarrassment, being denied of jobs, or looking like what society thinks is “unkempt,” or “dirty.” No one teases and/or misunderstands a white woman with curly hair’s hair. If one seems to, they most likely have another problem with the individual white woman, and the issue really has nothing to do with the hair whatsoever. My point is, white women with curly hair are accepted by society’s standards of pretty, and need no back-up or reinforcement like they are the ones who need it.
It’s just so tiring to hear, let it go Black folks, incorporate all. Well weren’t incorporated for hundreds of years and now we try to come together as a collective to UPLIFT our BEAUTY and culture and we can’t even do that. It’s sickening, really. Leave us be, go make your own inclusive site and let us wallow in our greatness while you wallow in yours.
Every time we(blacks) do include others, our voices get drowned out and that means erasure for our culture. No, should not include others, it has nothing to do with insecurities.
I agree who heartedly with the arguments of the original article, exclusivity in this matter is not racist. Black women deserve to have a space solely for ourselves to recognize, praise and discuss our hair without the input of others. Though our plights may be similar they will never be the same nor do they have such deep roots.
I think it’s fine to share stories with other races, though we should not have to give up our exclusive spaces. There is enough space for both, but all we ask is respect for the spaces that we do claim.
So I think it’s great that people want to have something that they created, but of what use is that thing if it’s not impacting the life of others? Isn’t the most important accomplishment in a persons life the LEGACY they leave behind?
some examples MLK, MAYA ANGELOU, MADIBA, ….to name a few….they left a legacy behind, and they didn’t do it by being exclusive or having a black white mentality.
I think people are seriously tripping on this article.
We need to stop this black people white people nonsense and just deal with people as PEOPLE!
Yes the challenges Are there, yes we encounter it daily or more often, but I order to move forward and live a fulfilled life, you gotta just drop the victim mentality!
Besides, at the end of the day, we won’t be judged based on whether we are black or white, that stuff is honestly so unimportant that you ought to not base your life on it and just let go of all that slavery stuff….it’s called “history” for a reason. not to,say we should forget it, but to MOVE ON from its. Some people take this so seriously that you’d think they were the ones that were actually in slavery.
The truth is you can’t control the way people treat you, but you have a choice either to react or respond.
Why is it on us to ‘move on’ though. What about the people being racist or the people appropriating other people’s cultures?
Tsky,
With ppl giving you the thumbs down for your truthful and intelligent insight, I fear a line must be drawn in the sand between those of us secure enough in our blackness not to want to resurrect segregation and those who need to feel broken and downtrodden. There IS a difference. I fear it may be genetic.
You really think not including white women in the natural hair movement is resurrecting SEGREGATION? Do you realize who STARTED segregation? Do you realize who the only people with enough power to resurrect segregation is? Are you serious!??!?
This article is LITERALLY the stupidest thing I’ve read in a long time. I am so disgusted with black people who bend over backwards to accommodate white people when historically, they have NEVER done the same for you.
I’m so irritated, I’m not sure I want to read these comments if they agree…
And frankly, I’m sick and tired of those of you who feel you can live in some sort of afrocentric bubble. It’s not about bending to suit white people, but realizing we have to exist in their space in order to be successful in this country. If you take issue with that, you can go and find yourself a country where there are no white people, and do your own thing.
We are Americans. Black Americans. Are you saying black people can not have things for themselves to better themselves in this Country like every other Race has.
Please show me your petition to end Native American tax breaks or land entitlement.
Show me where you were against white Native Americans excluding blacks from being on their land or being able to claim a minute percentage of their ancestry.
Are you marching down every completely white subdivision complaining to whites about their white flight? Or campaigning at corporate offices that higher dumb whites over people of color.
No…..you are not. You are on a black hair board directed toward black women. Acting as if only black people are exclusive lol!!!! The idiocy is strong in you.
All you people stating black people are racist cause we want something for ourselves. Show some proof where you are doing the same towards these other racial groups.
Stormfront
NAAAP (the national association of Asian American professionals.)
Native American associations.
Latin culture.
Not one of you have spoke out against these other racial groups having and building something for their own. In *gasp* America. The bias you all display is pitiful. And the argument that we are playing victim is laughable and simply a means to shut us up. Same thing men and some women do to victims of rape. Shame them into shutting up when the victim is speaking out.
All of you can take your white or self hating black where’s my white friend having self over to CN and NC. Where the bw will majorly stay on CN and the ww will still be conversing amongst themselves on NC. Oblivious to your own boards segregation.
While I am trying very hard to understand the need for women posting here to add words to MY thoughts, I find that I cannot. If I were saying what you claim I am, I would have actually typed those words. Since I didn’t, it would be completely safe for you to presume I didn’t say anything other than what is printed here, did not intend to say anything other than what is printed here, and you therefore can take my EXACT words and read them verbatim. Hope that helps!
Anyone who thinks that white women with curly hair go through the same struggles as black women must not be from around here. Let me take you back to earth:
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/download2-1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/gchgh.jpg[/img]
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/lorde-billboard-650-430.jpg[/img]
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/john-frieda-frizz-ease-no-more-frizz-large-5-1.jpg[/img]
Is this supposed to be the new face of the natural hair community?
You choose two white women and a Latina, and they represent all white women? So if a white person put up three black women with fro’s, that would represent all black women? Please think before you post! That last photo is from a commercial, one that my daughter and I laugh at because there is NO product that is going to create perfect ringlets like that!
You’re obviously missing the point of their post….its an example. But yes a black women with an afro will represent maybe even a majority of black people because a majority of black people have afro textured hair. The point that they are getting across is that they do NOT have afro textured hair soooo
And you base that assessment on what, exactly? I don’t believe most black women have afro textured hair, hence the fact that this website we’re debating this on now, features black women do do and do not have afro textured hair.
Lol most black women DO have 4 type hair. Your beliefs don’t have anything to do with what actually is. Most black people have type 4 hair. It’s actually sort of an indication that a Person is of African decent…. It’s really common sense 🙂
So you are speaking of your own belief and saying my belief is invalid because it doesn’t agree with my belief….and that somehow makes your belief accurate? Really, I think there is always a place for arrogance, but unless you can provide evidence of your belief, that arrogance is simply misplaced.
The difference is mine is not a belief. Lol its more so common sense than anything else. If all these african decented women went natural the majority of black women would have a 4 type hair. Look around at the men for example that these women are related to, they are likely to have the same or close to the same hair type as their brothers yes? And i don’t see too many black men (with the exception of mixed race) having a 3 type hair. It would be the same with females. By law of common sense. This may sound like an opinion to people who don’t get common sense but i assure you if there were a study on it, you would find that african decented peoples have african hair lol but if you don’t understand this thats fine. Not everyone gets everything in this life 🙂 but to say that most african women don’t have a 4 type hair is just blatantly ignorant on your part. And im not trying to insult you or anything btw.
Yeah, call it “common sense” if you like, but it is indeed simply and unequivocally a belief. Unless you were able to get all those who still use relaxers to suddenly go natural, you’d have no way of knowing for sure. Nice try, though. Really. Nice try.
Lol so why exactly do you think that “most” black women (with the exeption of mixed race ladies) would not have 4 type hair?… I was basing it off of common sense that they would and also the men that they are related to likely would have the same textured hair. But you think that MOST black women would have a 3 type hair… Why exactly? Lol because this one website has black women who have 3 type hair, i believe you said. That’s a pitiful and weak correlation. But if you think thats how things work, i guess i can humor you lol you are sooooo correct. Most african decented femlaes have 3 type hair cuz on this website we see 3type hair. Lol did it ever occur to you that the vast majority of naturals shown in the media are 3type naturals? So of course looking at media as a form of research would sway your findings. Look at the black females around you, look at friends baby pictures, look at a truer source. Even look at the men because it is more likely than not that their relatives will have the same or close to same hair type. African decented peoples are the only ones with this hair type… It originates from Agrican decented people. 4 type hair is uniquely OURS so when you say “most black women have 3 type hair or looser hair”…. What are you speaking of? On what grounds? Nothing quite sound. It’s really okay to be open to new information that you didnt know before. Ignorance is not the way, each one, reach one, teach one. 🙂 right? Lol im sure we can both vibe with this. Right? But if you do have an actual sound theory to back up that opinion i would really love to hear it. Cuz i like to be proven wrong, then i can learn 🙂
You’re the one making statements about “most black women” and now you add in “mixed race.” So does that mix need to be first generation, or can it go back a ways? Please. It’s been estimated that 80% of American’s of African decent are in fact “mixed race” so that statement in its self says that your speculation is without merit. However, again unless you are going to get all women who identify as black to stop chemically relaxing their hair so that you can check to see if they have type four hair, there is no way to know if your supposition is correct or not, but please continue to believe you are right if that is what works for you. I am all for black women feeling empowered, and this issue is obviously something of great import to you! LOL!
Well done you do have a point there 🙂 i didn’t think of that. I was talking about first geberation mixed race girls but you are right im sure some genes from waaaaaaaay back in most black womens history could somehow cause them to have a 3 type texture that works. Lol NOW YOU HAVE A THEORY! Lol okay okay 🙂 look at youuuuu. (Im really not mocking you i am genuinely excited cuz usually people usually don’t have much to put forth) coooool lol it’s not that important but i do enjoy talking about it and thinking it through. And im sure most of these black women have pictures before they got permed we could conduct research from that. Im gonna do it. Haha
And my brown skinned daughter with type 3a/b hair is an example of genetic recombination. It’s always funny when women who think like you do, tell her her hair has to be heat damaged or she’s using a texturizer. I know, I know it’s difficult to see past your own ignorance, as it’s much more fun to sit inside your own little bubble, but give yourself a chance to venture out from time to time. It’ll do you some good, and you then won’t have to waste your time responding to someone like me who wonders why you are putting so much energy into this discussion? LOL!
Did you miss the part where i explained why i was genuinely excited about speaking of this?… ???? i personally wouldn’t ask if a dark skinned girl has heat damage because of her 3 type hair because that is an ignorant assumption to make, that skin color and hair type have a strong correlation, they don’t. I’m just saying that we must think about it past our own personal experiences because that alone can not form a whole opinion. Genetic recombination though, that is interesting indeed. There are africans who have 3type hair initially though but most of the tribes that were usually had a 4type hair. Lol if yoi think it’s a waste of time why are you responding? I am enjoying the thought and theories going into this, i like to actually set forth and find truths. I’m anything but ignorant, i think your assumptions have let you jump to conclusions about me and my intentions. It didn’t occur to me what you mentioned before… Genetic recombination. Good point. Your daughter is proof of it. But i wonder if anyone can find proof to your actual hypothosis… Or mine. Hmm. Are there more 4types or 3types? We probably should factor in that 9ether hair has a dominant gene as well though, hmmm. Im really going to collect research on this! Lol just out of curosity. Since nobody actually knows for sure.
So your saying Latin American people can’t be white. Latin America is more diverse than you think. It is not just made up of descendants of the indigenous native american peoples. It’s also composed of blacks, whites, and even Asians. In fact 37% of the Columbian population is white, or Caucasian in you prefer. So yes Shakira is in fact white. (Maybe you need to think before you post.)
My point was not that these 4 represent all white women. My point was that curly haired white women do get representation. A curly haired white girl has many role models that she can aspire to be like, such as Lorde, while a nappy headed black girl has very few. She also has products like John Freida’s Frizzies that are catered to her specifically and broadcasted on all channels. I was simply disagreeing with the notion that “‘Curly hair is generally not cute past the age of 10.'”
I most certainly did NOT say Latin American’s people can’t be white, but I will say of those who could be considered white, consider themselves Latin American before they think of white, but that’s not the issue here. Latin American’s also share hair textures with African American women. Should they too be excluded if they are not clearly black?
I’m Latina, and I consider myself black too, what’s your point?
Obviously you chose to be angry and read into what I said, rather than simply reading my post. I did not say Latina’s could not be white or black, I simply mentioned Latina’s as a part of this discussion. Get rid of the anger, and read exactly what is posted, rather than what you want a post to say.
You said, and don’t try to deny it because everything is in the open for people to read, “You choose two white women and a Latina, and they represent all white women?” When you chose to make the distinction between her and the other two white women, it implied that she was not white like them. If you actually did think that Shakira was white when you first decided to comment, then there was no reason to point out that she was a Latina. Would you also have said i “chose 2 white women and and english woman?” No. This is not an issue of nationality or what continent you come from, its an issue of race.
Now, the facts are the facts, and because you are neither Latin American nor the spokeswomen for Latin America, you cannot tell me how white Latin Americans view themselves. But as you have stated, that is irrelevant.
Theres something you seem to be missing here. Latin American is NOT a race. If you are going to talk about Latin Americans, specify which race because it is not the homogeneous society you seem to think it is. You say “Latin American’s also share hair textures with African American women.” Maybe they share the same hair texture because they are black too. As in descendants of people brought from Africa (just like many of our ancestors.) If they are the ones you are talking about, then my answer is yes, they should be included in the natural hair movement. They are the lowest in society and might even need more support than we do in America.
So, wait a minute. Because I stated that Shakira is Latina, I am somehow saying she can’t be white, even though you admit that I stated the three women shouldn’t represent all white women?
Have a seat! I know you think you are somehow putting me in my place, but my point still holds true. LOL! But hey, thanks for the laugh!
i didn’t phrase that last paragraph correctly (because unlike you i try to be politically correct.
You said “Latin American’s also share hair textures with African American women.” Maybe SOME Latin Americans share the same hair texture because they are black too…. If Latin Americans of Latin descent are the ones you are talking about, then my answer is yes, they should be included in the natural hair movement….
Well thank you for stating the obvious, because I am sure there were no other readers of my most who could have figured that out on their own. I realize you need an argument, but if you are going to come for me you should consider bringing your A game. Stating the obvious just ain’t it!
i don’t think you understand the difference between a statement and an implication.
imply – to strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something NOT expressly stated)
Anyways Your question was “Latin American’s also share hair textures with African American women. Should they too be excluded if they are not clearly black?”
Yes because Latin Americans can be black1 They can be any race and grouping them all together and asking a question like that is WRONG! You have to specify which part you mean. Thats like asking about what North Americans do. Do you mean in the US, Canada or Mexico.(And remember you brought up the Latina thing when it had nothing to do with the conversation)
Anyways youre turning a debate that was originally about representation into one about political correctness and inclusion. Clearly i favor exclusion but thats not the topic at hand. The artoicle said that carly hair is not cut past ten for white women, i was simply stating that that is not true/
My apologies.
I am English, and in England, when you’re mixed, you’re mixed
you are not black
you are not white
you are mixed
It seems on this site you have to identify with one and it is something that we don’t do over here
That’s why I mentioned I was mixed.
Again, sorry for the confusion
I have a friend in England who is biracial, and identifies as black. Just like in the US, it’s a personal decision. However, unlike in England, there are people in the US who will give you a hard time for choosing to identify as biracial (sorry, I don’t like the term “mixed”), or will tell people they are biracial because their hair is not of a type that person typically considers to be “black.”
In other words, there are a whole lot of judgmental people who frequent this site, so don’t give it a second thought.
He is brainwashed most likely very much into AA culture.
And here’s what you don’t understand, but I will help you with. I mean what I say, and say what I mean and therefore, there is no reason for you to read into my words, or decide that I am implying anything other than what I said.
Class dismissed!
I wasn’t aware that Latinas can’t be white?? Shakira is Arab and Latina silly, but she is still classified as white phenotype you nut. There are white Arabs as well as Caucasian Latino/a people’s from all over the globe you are pretty sad if you don’t know that! Shakira sure isn’t black.
As for the perfect curls, what does that have to do with anything? Perfect curls or not, she still is a WHITE woman in the very last picture fool!
And yes those white women are representing the majority of curly haired white women. They don’t have hair like black women, that’s just curl on a white textured hair. Even white women with the tightest curl have European textured hair. I’m a 3c with a mix of 3b and I have low sheen and hair that breaks easy I don’t have a lot of silkiness or shine to my hair. Many people from the North of Africa have my hair, low sheen with a slightly looser curl. All types of BLACK hair are accepted here!
Latina is a designation afforded to women born in Central and South America as well as Mexico and a few Caribbean Islands. It is not a racial designation but an ethnic one, therefore when I say Shakira is Latina I am referring to her ethnicity and not her race, CLEARLY. While you and one other person seem to be having fun reading into what I said and not simply reading exactly what I said, it would appear you are the one with the comprehension issue here and not me.
You said in American Shakira would NOT be considered white? Idiot, that’s because everyone knows WHO Shakira is, and that she is considered Latina, or Arab or whatever she is by nationality. If you didn’t know who the chick was, and no one had ever seen her before, she’d be considered WHITE. You wouldn’t know if Shakira was Hispanic, You’d assume she was white and YOU know it, that was the point of the woman’s post!! She was showing 3 women who appear white with curly hair. Their phenotype IS and always will be white regardless of where they come from. They could all be from Lebanon or Africa, they’d STILL be white according to what scientist consider Caucasoid!! Meaning their most recent ancient ancestors were from the caucus mountains at some point! If they are mixed with something, no one would say they were mixed with black, because they appear WHITE. UH notice the European features,hair, white nose, white SKIN, makes you white!! If you think for one minute that people aren’t smart enough to KNOW that those women are white despite their nationality then you are dumb as they come! People aren’t stupid, they can distinguish ethnicity from nationality.
“You said in American Shakira would NOT be considered white?”
No, in fact I didn’t say that at all. I went through my posts, those words are not there.
Look luckystar, I know you are just looking for a fight, and frankly I’m not willing to give it to you as you are simply and utterly insufferable. Fight to your hearts content, but from here forward, you will be fighting alone!
I meant any one can distinguish between her race and nationality.For example,you can be white race, American nationality. White people come from all over the world and so do black people obviously. quit stating the obvious!
So,if “anyone can” why the heck is it so important to you that I did? I get it, you like me but it’s really time to move on. Seriously. Go.
When she said “two white women and a latina” she meant that shakira wasn’t white, otherwise there would have been no point in stating that she was latina, she would have just said 3 white women. it was never about ethnicity, it was always about race. now that people are pointing it out, shes trying to act like she never said shakira wasn’t white (which is technically true. she never explicitly said “shakira is white.”)
How in the blue blazes can you say what someone else meant? The audacity it takes to do that and get away with it is well above your pay grade. So pay attention, and see if you can figure out what I am saying.
In America, “white” is both a race and an ethnicity, just as “black” is. They are both blanket terms that have nothing to do with where one’s ancestors were born, but solely where the person lives now. Latina on the other hand, is an ethnic designation, and has nothing to do with race. Therefore when I mention that Shakira is Latina I am saying she is not white in the American context of both a racial and ethnic identity, but simply where she was born and raised; as in she isn’t “white” like the other two photos represented! SMH! Now, continue to read what you choose to into my words, or take them at face value. I’ll just sit here and laugh as some of you ladies clearly look for opportunities to argue and enjoy every moment!
Lorde is not “white in the American context” but she is equally as white as shakira and taylor swift. why didn’t you feel the need to distinguish her background?
Because Lorde wasn’t one of the three women pictured. Now that was simply, wasn’t it? LOL!
My apologies. This debate was been going on for so long, I didn’t even remember who was featured in the photos. I have no idea what Lorde’s racial make up is, only that she is from New Zealand, which is a nationality and not an ethnicity as far as I know.
I hope the author is playing devil’s advocate with this piece. If the author or anyone else believes that a white woman with curly 3 abc hair can relate to a black woman with curly 4 abc hair, then you live under a rock. It’s really that simple.
Team Natural is for women of color with kinky-coarse hair. White women love to get on the band wagon of brown women celebrating themselves. It’s like they feel left out even though they are placed on pedestals in our society.
Finally, when have any of you EVER read a white woman with curly hair talking, blogging, or vlogging about how BEAUTIFUL 4 abc hair is and how she can relate to a kinky-coarse hair woman of color go through? If white women aren’t saying such nonsense then WHY ARE WE even attempting to say it for them?
The problem with your argument is that I am a black woman and I don’t have type 4 hair as mine is type 3. Going with what you are saying, does that mean you and I should not be viewing the same site?
The fact still remains there is a major difference between a black woman’s curls (whether 3,4, till 100) versus a white woman’s–even if the curls ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. Our fight to do what we wish to our hair and bodies is unique in a way that a WW couldn’t relate, and never will be able to. There is no creature on this planet that’s as scrutinized as the BW.
You are free to do what you want to do with your body, within legal boundaries. What you do with your hair will always be an issue in the workplace, as it can be for some white women, and yes I’ve seen white women with hair just like our’s in the 3 type. Just because you haven’t seen it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Just because they are scrutinized differently, does not mean they aren’t scrutinized. Black women are not the only women who purchase chemical hair relaxer products. We’re just the one’s who make an issue of it.
So untrue.
But good news is w/you and Black men fighting for White Women inclusion in Black spaces AND White men holding White Women up in society as the standard of beauty…White Women are winning in life. Good for them.
So sad safe spaces have to be constantly broken up.
Your type 3 hair is a good point in favor of exclusion though. if the natural hair community is still struggling to deal with the differences in hair type because type 3 hair styles tend to get more attention (because it looks more like white peoples hair) what makes you think including white women will make things better.
Most of use ain’t struggling but already understand that as black women we don’t all have the same hair type. However, there are still those of you who take issue with those of us who don’t have type four hair, and can’t wait to call us “mixed.”
Thats exactly my point! What was your hair called before the invention of the hair typing system? It was called good hair, and people who allegedly had good hair were the only ones who were allowed to go natural without receiving hate and ridicule from our community (in many cases it is still this way.) And even within the natural hair community, type 3 hair seems to be the kind gets the most recognition.
I personally don’t hate type 3 hair but the fact of the matter is that many of us are still healing from VERY old wounds and including white people into the mix (at least for now) would only make things worse.
The struggle between type 3 and 4 hair is very similar to the light skin/dark skin debate. Though both are silly and unproductive they continue to be an issue within our race. But you wouldn’t let a white person join that discussion, would you?
If black women are hating on women with type 3 hair, its the haters that have the problem, not the women with type 3 hair. If the black community is “still struggling to deal with the differences in hair type” its the “black community” that needs to take a look in the mirror. Punishing white women and women with type 3 hair by excluding them because else has a problem with the way they look isn’t going to “make things better.” The only way to make them better is for the black women to stop talking about having this new “empowerment” we feel with natural hair and actually start living it. Its time to be confident in ourselves regardless of what the girl next to us has.
@bsbfankaren
My hair is type 3 too, and you know what? Black folks praise it as if it’s an accomplishment (it’s not – i didn’t earn it), while white people know good and hell well it isn’t “white folks’ hair” because IT’S ON A BLACK WOMAN. For THAT reason alone, my choice to stop relaxing my hair 15 year ago with nary a straight wig, hot comb, flat iron, nor weave in sight was revolutionary. Black people were looking at me crazy, white people were looking at me crazy, and it was through a safe, informative space (http://www.endarkenment.com/hair/essays/) that I navigated the stares and found my center.
Were white women there hijacking the conversation and talking about their issues (which are NOT the same, even if their curl pattern is the same), it would have been like any other website that is all about the beauty of white women, with black women as (a sometime-acceptable) “other”.
I’m also a type 3 and I still say this site is for women with 3c all the way to 4c because those are the girls who made this site what it is.Indeed making this site what it is, was the actual purpose of empowerment for us black women. I feel I can relate to 4c women because my hair is low porosity, meaning, my curl is NOT silky, it’s rather curly and dry compared to the silky hair of white woman hair. YES we get it, white women have curls sometimes too, but no one wants t o heart them crying about it. We simply don’t care about some made up struggle in a delusional white woman’s hair! Point blank, white women never struggled with their hair! The bs has to stop. White women, your senseless crying will fall on deaf ears.
So, Loquacious, you just shut out millions of your black sisters who have curly 3a, 3b,3c, 4a and mixtures thereof. According to you, they don’t qualify to be involved in this all important natural hair movement. How does it feel to be a racist against your own kind???
Look up the actual sociological definition of racism. Black people aren’t capable of it. We can be biased, prejudiced, and bigoted (you seem like a good example of all three, based on your previous comments), but we can’t be racist.
I’ve always loved the Natural Haven!! Thank you so much for putting into words what my heart feels. If more thought like you, nations would definitely topple. Thank you so much for this article. SPOT ON!!!!
How is wearing their hair in its natural state an issue for White women? The article is baffling to me. It’s obvious why Black women had to carve out a place to discuss natural hair. For some of us, wearing our hair natural is still a big deal given the reactions of our loved ones, workmates, strangers, etc.
No one is going to convince me that White women share our experiences when it comes to natural hair. And it is not apartheid for Black women to create spaces to encourage and educate ourselves about our hair.
And by the way, even if White women have concerns about wearing their hair natural, they can create their own spaces. I will not intrude.
One of my daughter’s closest friends is from Russia and has curly hair. She gets called nasty things by other Russian’s when she wears her hair in it’s natural state, including the “n” word. There are Jewish women with hair just like our’s and non-black Latina’s with hair like ours, and indeed one is featured on this site. Take the time to learn something about other cultures and not simply races, something American’s are really bad at, and realize you are not alone in your struggles with your hair!
“including the n-word.”
What everyone is saying is not that white women cannot learn about their hair. I personally would like everybody to feel as beautiful as possible.
Being in the community is one thing, and we honestly don’t mind that part. A lot of women in the community understand that they cannot speak on the racial experiences of hair and, like Ali, it’s important for them to listen to our history and our instances of discrimination so they can learn to teach tolerance to their children.
But being the face of a movement historically for and us is different.
But the natural hair movement was created for things exactly like that. Think about it – your daughter’s friend got called an n-word over her hair.
She got called an n-word for having curly hair that many Black people have. That is actually very common in non-black people. The idea that it’s unattractive and makes you inferior to have features that most Black people do is a racist one. Which means that it affects a group of people more prevalently than it does another. Racism and white supremacy effects everyone, but when one race is the specific subject of discrimination, it affects them tenfold.
You also have to remember the context of this argument: a white woman was featured on CN. She admitted to just doing it to troll Black women. She was actually extremely rude to a lot of woman who politely said “that’s not cool.” Her rude comments were then deleted, leaving only the mean black girl posts, so she could milk the situation for follows and blog hits. CN is owned by Naturally Curly, and several YT gurus are as well. Anyone with an affiliation with Naturally Curly came out to defend the girl despite the trolling/rude things she was saying.
That is what sparked all of this controversy, and this is the type of thing we are speaking against. I hope that helps clear things up, and I’m sorry about your daughter’s friend. 🙂
No, see your response is far more layered and textured than many of the responses here, and you must know that.
I thank you for explaining the controversy as well, and don’t think many women responding now are aware of it. Trolls are difficult to deal with to be sure. Had I known about this, my responses here would have been much, much different. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, and I hope that you will provide guidance to other’s posting as well.
It’s no problem. I find that a lot of the comments start out as explaining, then they get a little inflated when people start building them up. I can still see what they’re trying to say, but I also have to remind myself that other people may not be able to see past the ‘ego’ part of it. And there are so many comments already, it becomes tedious to try and find the less inflated ones out of the bunch.
I think a lot of people, since this has been a topic of debate for a while now, just assumed everybody knew what started it. And if you look at with the mindset that everyone already knows, a comment about inclusion suddenly takes on a whole different tone. I was glad I was able to clear things up, have a wonderful day.
The only people with afro textured hair….are b l a c k p e o p l e
But not every black person has AFRO TEXTURED HAIR! LOL!
Thays obvious….when did I say that… I said black people are the only people with afro textured hair, not all black ppl have afro textured hair tf
no, i’m pretty sure every black person does…
Not true. There are some Jewish people and latinos who don’t phenotypically present as “black” who have the tight curls characteristically associated with black people. A few white people, too. Now, if we shake their family trees, who knows what might fall out, but these are people that none of us would refer to as “black” (nor do they identify themselves as such).
White people are not treated the same as black people, period. Even if they have the same hair type or curl pattern, the “rules” are not the same. This isn’t not just about hair – this is about having a space where a segment of society that has traditionally been ostracized can come together, celebrate one another, and work out their hair issues & challenges – personal and political. Nobody has said that people who don’t identify as black can’t come and learn, but should they choose to do so, they should respect this space as one that is not about them. Have a seat, take what you need, and don’t disrupt the work that is being done here. If that is a problem, there is a whole internet full of sites that talk about hair as it relates to non-black women.
I used to look forward to this blog, but after seeing the ridiculously afro-centric comments here that do NOTHING at all to uplift but instead serve to separate us from where we need to be, now I’m simply disgusted. I can get tips for my hair from elsewhere, including sites that are not solely for black women, and the rest of you can continue to shelter in place, because at some point you’re going to have to blame yourselves for never getting ahead. The comments here are deeply, deeply troubling.
Please bye!!! I’m not here for white women. This site is for BLACK women.
What you’re missing is that YOU do not personally have to be here for anyone, white, black, brown, green, etc. However, that should not keep women who are not African American from coming to this site to learn and ask questions. The fun thing about the internet? You can choose to pass right on by any message or post that does not appeal to you!
Doesn’t that also apply to you saying that you are going to stop reading this blog? You can also choose to pass right on by any message or post that does not appeal to you, correct?
Anyways, there is nothing wrong with Black women deciding that we want to have a few safe spaces where we can talk about issues concerning our hair. I really don’t have much to say to non-Black women about my natural hair journey. It would be strange if women who don’t go to the same hairdressers as me and don’t have my hair texture all of a sudden became a part of the natural hair movement.
Here’s the thing, and since I’ve not had my subscription deleted yet I’m going to respond even if you don’t like it, if you don’t have anything to say to white women in regard to hair, then simply don’t respond. It’s so darn simple. LOL! I on the other hand, will offer advice to anyone who asks for it, race not with standing. As a black woman the only thing I have that is mine….is me. This website is not mine, so if this site or any other decides to be inclusive, it has no effect on my life, or your’s or any other odd person making this an issue.
This website being inclusive and the natural hair movement are two different things. This website isn’t ours, but the natural hair movement most definitely is.
Precisely, and that is where the focus should remain. No one has to be anti-white women to be pro Natural Hair Movement. If other’s choose to tag along, the more the better, but the focus remains the same, changing the definition of beauty within the black community, one head at a time!
“Anyways, there is nothing wrong with Black women deciding that we want to have a few safe spaces where we can talk about issues concerning our hair.”
You are grossly mistaken in thinking ALL black women have the same issues with their hair and share the same insights. And when someone disagrees with you exclusion-ists, you get your necks rolling and thumbs downing. Opposite views should be allowed to be safely expressed but seldom are.
Deary, you need to quit while you’re ahead. No one said, ‘white women can’t come here and seek hair tips and so on” It IS a free country.I mean, many of us may wonder why, any white woman would want to seek hair advice on THIS site? But it’s always going to be a white woman’s prerogative if she chooses to come here for whatever strange reason?
But remember, the site IS for and BEGAN with black women!! I personally think that black women should ignore white women who complain about their “hair problems” IF you don’t GET that no one is listening then I feel sorry for you truly.
Don’t come on here lecturing anyone about “getting ahead” YOU need to get ahead, maybe it’s YOU who has to get ahead. WHy not start your own site, where you and other white women can gather and complain about how tough it is to be white with “curly hair” oh yeah, I’m sure that’d be exciting. You could all pretend like you’re on the cast of WILL and GRACE, wouldn’t that be like totally NEAT?
Well, at least you admit I’m ahead. It’s the first step to you admitting that other’s can have an opinion that differs from your own. Well done!
I thought you’d learned your lesson by now? All the nonsensical statements and irrelevant remarks about subjects you know nothing about (It seems) are making you look uninformed and quite stupid about the rejection,psychological pain and harassment we face as black women when it comes to our hair? You’re sad.
The only thing I can come up with is that you are either white or a biracial woman or a woman who THINKS she’s biracial or a clueless black woman who doesn’t stay in touch with reality or her OWN people!
Also,I never said or acted as though you couldn’t have an opinion that differed from mine or any one else’s? It seems you need to take a reading comprehension course as well?! All I did was state my opinion back at you. And yes, you have a right to your opinion, even if it IS utterly stupid sounding as hell!
I try to understand the need to attempt to denigrate anyone who doesn’t agree with your opinion, but it is too far beneath my intellect to do so. There is no lesson to learn, you’ve not taught me anything, and it’s truly time for you to find someone else to challenge since I’m simply not interested in playing childish games.
I don’t even think you’re black, just by reading your comments. You’re too defensive of non-bw or you’re being a mammy.
Girl, you ain’t never lied! What’s going on in this blog is EXACTLY what happens in the neighborhoods. A housing development is created for a certain type of ppl, they do just fine, then the riff raff come in trying to run things and completely diminish the value until those who originated in said place need to move on if they wish to live with any semblance of peace. Yes, BGLH has definitely become ghetto-ized!
I love how you’re railing against how “discriminatory” we’re being for wanting an exclusive space, and all of your comments scream stereotypes and self-hate. That is, if you’re actually Black. If you’re lying about that, then I guess I’m not surprised.
I honestly don’t believe she is black.
Read the name of the website. BLACK girl long hair. Not WHITE girl long hair. Not ASIAN girl long hair, but BLACK girl. The site is obviously meant for black women. You knew what you were getting into as soon as you clicked on the link to the website. Smh the fact that you feel slighted in some way is deeply, DEEPLY troubling.
The writer asks the reader to insert white into that first statement, but remember what the original blogger said, insert Native American or Chinese or most other races and people would happily allow them to have a ‘safe space’ we need to accept that we are a minority and therefore it’s okay for us to have spaces where we can discuss that is quite exclusive.
This doesn’t mean white people can’t look at the posts and find them helpful and no one is stopping them but the site doesn’t need to change to become more inclusive on white issues that aren’t relevant for this particular setting.
Well said! I didn’t even know that this topic would blow up. White women wearing their hair naturally is not an issue in the way that Black women wearing their hair naturally has been and continues to be.
I hardly ever write anything on this website but here I go. White people are imitators when it comes to us. All they do is wait for your next word and your next move and they off to make movies and videos casting themselves for the roles. Some examples, The Step Up movie, with a predominately white cast break dancing like they thug out and come straight from the hood. They call you ghetto, tell you stink, you’re ugly, you are lazy and a bunch of murders but yet they have no problem marketing themselves acting and portraying to be you. As if we are a damn biopic. I even seen it on news channels with the most racist bastards talking our slang but yet these same people will tell you in school you can’t use slang in a professional setting but they can. The words what’s up is like nothing to these people. But you couldn’t tell them that they are being ghetto when they speaking our lingo.
It is repetitive history in this country and abroad. Generally speaking as a people, we don’t feel good enough unless a white person starts to pay attention to us as if we need their approval. There is a popular white female youtuber who has several subscribers. Don’t ask me how I came across the video but she has a video on a bantu knot tutorial on her white daughter’s hair. Not with her adopted black daughter who has natural hair. Anyways the comments on that video is nothing but simply put sum up ” Your so innovative”. Hint: once again your being put to the side like you have nothing to do with this hairstyle. Other comments from the white audience is “bantu knots are for everyone” in response to a proud black woman speaking out about how white people are always stealing our shit. Again hint: you are being put to the side. The same thing with this website and this pointless article about natural hair is for everybody.
You don’t speak for everybody. In fact, natural hair even at the level it is right now is still seen as ugly and is not beautiful by these same damn people you want to include on your blog like they really care about your hair. Why would she be bitching about being on a website designated for black women for, huh? All the damn websites she could be on and she wants to be on here. gtfoh! But this is nothing new you google BET is racist and you get a bunch of white people bitching about BET is reverse racism. Or Black people.com being racist and yet both website have more white people appearing up there than the projects.
The word black anything doesn’t mean anything anymore because of sellouts always wanting to integrate and make white people apart of their life like they really give a flying fuck about you whether you be a black male or female. Recently there was a black woman who appear to be crossing on a highway and this white police officer out of nowhere just started punching this woman like she was a man! She could have been deaf she could have had some mental illness but all he seen was a black woman not respecting his authority or could have just targeted her for no reason just because he hates n*gg*rs. And I know that if she had been a dog crossing a highway he would of broke his neck to try and help her from not being ran over by a car.
I am outrage at the fact that you would sit and write how you are so heartbroken that this white chick can’t be apart of this website and from what I’ve have read above it appears that it is going to be some kind of change on that theory. Well then get ready to be apart of history in the making of black women once again being put in the shadows of something that was created specifically for them to love themselves. Be apart of history in the making of having once again white women imitating us again. They already have taking our style, our speech and now they are about to start a trend on how we wear our hair and take credit for it.
It already happening on youtube. White women are already doing their hair like ours. Telling you french braids is their hairstyle (as if there really is a damn difference between a french braid and cornrows), and that wearing your hair in braid came from them. When they speak to each other about big hair they already speak about themselves. As if wearing our afros and blowing out our hair never existed for us during the 60’s and 70’s era. They already debating about nicki minaj ass being fake and iggy ass being real as if there are a bunch of over develop white teenagers walking around with big asses. gtfoh. I’m so tired of this brain washing bull crap. Our brothers are already flocking to them like it can’t get no better. Look at kanye and Kim. Kim all of sudden is a sex symbol cuz she has a fake ass claiming that it is real and can’t stay away from a brother even if you paid her too. Iggy face all of sudden is a hip hop leader cuz she white and has a fake ass too. Both of them trying to replace black women out of the spotlight by getting injections and trying be down. Now I can see it now a white woman within the celebrity community with a big natural hairstyles being the leader of natural hair and bunch of coons worshiping her thanks to yours truly. You and other of you alike. Black people struggles are evident everyday. White people don’t have nothing to cry about they just don’t wan’t you to have anything of your own. And if you let her on here and other white people on this site then you let them own you. I’m out and I don’t sell out.
You want some cheese with that whine? Truth is, the only ppl overwhelmingly believing black natural hair is ugly are black ppl. The only ppl thinking about natural black hair are black ppl. Want to test my point? Ask 10 random white ppl how often they think of black natural hair. I dare you.
Which is exactly why we need the NHM for black people. Nobody wants to hear white peoples irrelevant bantering. We don’t want them in it, so we can focus on OURSELVES.
Lmao no sweetheart thats definitely not true. First of all 10 white people don’t speak for the millions of white people that DO hate and discriminate against us because of our hair. Second of all, black people aren’t the ones making policies restricting cornrows,French braids, dreadlocks and other black hairstyles. Third of all black people aren’t the majority denying other black people jobs because their natural hair, whether it be tamed or untamed, is unprofessional but the white ladies in the messy bun is okay. Lastly I’d like to see your research and data collected from this experiment you seem to have done on black people. OH WAIT
Funny thing, sweatheart, I’ve never been fired from or not gotten a job wearing my natural hair in the several decades I’ve been employed. And the only time hair was an issue was the military. Back in the ’70’s a black woman sued and won for being fired from her job as a bank teller for wearing braids to work. That set a precedence. One of the first black tv anchors to wear her natural hair on tv was Valerie Coleman in San Francisco back in the late ’70’s early ’80s. She was very popular and moved up in the ranks.
In all my life the most negative comments about black hair have ALWAYS been from BLACKS! I have NEVER had a white person approach me and comment negatively on my hair. But blacks have done it without reservation!
Maybe you need to travel further than your backyard, because I can ASSURE YOU that MILLIONS OF WHITE ppl could care less about black ppl’s hair. The few sensationalized stories you read on the internet are diminished by the MILLIONS of non issues you don’t hear about because no one is going to announce they had a hassle free day. It’s not news worthy.
I don’t need to do research or collect data on black ppl as I’ve been living amongst them my entire life and remain overwhelmingly sad that so many, like you, refuse to give up this victim mentality. A new millennium and nothing is new.
No sweetheart everything you said is wrong, and its not just the military that has regulations on hair, that’s increasing as you OBVIOUSLY don’t know. And your experiences don’t compare with the experiences of other people in the world. You havent been stalked shot and killed because you’re black but that doesn’t mean its not happening other places. I don’t need to travel anywhere hun, you’re the one basing a million black people off the success of the few. Guess what WE’RE STILL OPPRESSED, WE’RE STILL DISCRIMANTED AGAINST,and youre still ignorant:)
All I can do is shake my head at your sad ignorance. Come on, use your brain, if the black women with NATURAL hair in THIS community THOUGHT they had ugly hair, why would we be here celebrating our hair in the FIRST PLACE??!!!!! We have obviously learned to love it SUSIE! So use your brain…oh wait, you don’t have one.
Everyone coming together as a human race will be ideal. But given our history it is easier said than done. Maybe one day, but things take time, it’s a process that people prefer to take in steps.
This celebration of natural hair is still fairly new and believe it or not, the majority of black women are still not celebrating their hair. There is still a ways to go. Yes there are many that embraced their naps/kinks/coils/afros/curls/waves/frizzy hair way before this movement but there are also still many who never did and who are just starting.
I will admit though, their are many black people who contribute to the rejection of embracing natural hair and the care free ways some choose to wear it. Perfect example is Blue Ivey. They attack Beyonce just because the child’s hair is sometimes worn as is!(carefree) What makes this disturbing is that most of the comments and negativity came from black people. So you see, we have a long ways to go and the issue must be addressed by us as a people because we are the ones with the issues. You cannot just ignore the years of conditioning, brainwashing, hurt and struggles that was done(initially caused by whites)by telling everyone to embrace one another. It’s not that simple for some. Small steps.
For these reasons I feel that exclusivity is needed in order to hear each other out without any outside influences. This way the issues are dissected and thoroughly dealt with through compassion, in a non-dismissive, judgement free zone, with respect and hopefully in a peaceful manner. Let us as a people help and heal each other, since we are the only ones that can relate to each other in this regard. If we can all just sit down and be reasonable about this and at least try to entertain all the different sides and or perspectives to the issue and not be so caught up in our own heads with our own opinions and ideas then maybe we can figure this out. Maybe one day the world will come together and embrace one another but until such time, let us work on our issues bit by bit and in this case exclusivity is necessary just like every other culture and or race has their own space build themselves up.
Websites and other communities such as this one are exclusive yes but they are open publicly and viewable to anyone. Any race is welcome to use this space as a tool and or resource to learn about our hair. So it’s like we are killing 2 birds with one stone while still being exclusive, at least this is how I see it. It’s all about one’s perspective I suppose.
And I dare you to be quite and listen since you obviously failed comprehension courses while you were in school but you’re going to get school today. All you are doing is trolling. If you are indeed a black woman then you have some serious low self esteem issues.
Since you are conducting research I have a few studies for you. Why don’t you take those same 10 white people you’re searching for your own research and you ask them how many of you would like to stand on your back and see how quick they will be knocking themselves over to stampede all over you since you have no spine to stand up for yourself. Then we wiill both see who will be whinning and cutting cheese after they get done with you. Lol
You are a prime example of what I said about black people seeking approval of these white people. You are the kind who would just pull a pass on a white woman black facing a black woman while wearing a natural hair style wig on a racist online blog.
The real valid and common sense study you should conduct is a black and white doll with curly hair research by interviewing several random little black girls ages 4 and up. Then You will see what kind of responses you will get.
Q. Which doll looks like you?
A. The black doll.
Q. Which doll is the pretty doll?
A. The white doll
Q. Why?
A. Because she’s white.
Q.Which doll hair is pretty?
A. The white girl.
Q. Why do you say that Kia, they both have curly hair?
A. Because she white and I want her hair.
See this right here I could see this being on point. I say this because I see young black girls growing up today in society with this inferior complex about themselves because whether it is commercials, cartoons, or any visual aid they don’t see anyone else the majority of the time but white people being beautiful regardless of their age whether they be babies or the elderly. But what is baffling is that with all this power that these white people have to be just themselves they still want to look (ex. Ice tea wife coco ) act (ex. Justin timber lake) and sing (ex. Adele), like the ones at the bottom of society.
A sista put up images from a google search of beauty on this post. How funny that most of them had silicone in their lips trying to look like black women. I can pull images of black women being made fun of for having full lips all day. But it’s just beautiful on white people when they get there lips made to look full. They will risk getting skin cancer by laying out in the sun all day to get dark but a black person’s skin is seen as evil in their eye.
Now these are the people with low self esteem and are suffering from an identity crisis. The same one screaming white is right but they steady trying to improve themselves by imitating black people natural attributes. And by the way the term ‘nappy’ was used from white people towards black people hair to make them feel ugly about themselves. Although many black women are embracing the term.
However, this is confusion in itself for a group of these white people who made black people hate themselves by using the term to now suddenly be apart of a movement with several black people who embrace their hair while using the term.
White people always made examples of house slaves. You will be used up until they ridicule you in public and then they will put your ass in your place by telling you that we were never ‘naturally’ on the same team. I tell you when to jump don’t get it twisted. You’re 3/5 of me just like the constitution says gal.
All it takes is one white person to white wash our shit. They did it with Elvis in the rock and roll music genre that was created by us. You couldn’t tell the average white person today they didn’t pioneer it with their deceiving ass. And all it will take is one white woman to open the doors for many more to put the stamp of approval on the wrong box. Just look at how the white woman with blonde hair is looking back at the sista in the picture like you don’t belong here and laughing like in her mind like she saying “it’s only a matter of time. Your black ass will be gone soon enough. But thanks for the invite dummy, ha ha ha.”
We Need our space like we need our space to do the number 2 in separate bathroom. We need our space like a car need its space to parallel park. We need space to grow in our spirit and to fully be develop in our mind to accept our authentic beauty standArds as the norm. Now class is dismiss.
The above message is directed towards Susie.
I can’t totally understand where you’re coming from, but I must disagree. Seeing as African Americans are always complaining about inequality and mistreatment from our counterparts, I think it’s backwards to exclude Caucasian people or any other race just because natural hair is a “black thing”. How can you expect to gain equality if you’re doing the exact same thing that you’re complaining about. Two wrongs don’t make a right, so how can you expect to grow as a people when you’re excluding everyone else as if they don’t matter or don’t go through some of the same issues not as blacks,whites, Mexicans, or Asians, but as HUMAN BEINGS. It’s basically the same ideal as lightskin vs darkskin or white only signs. You’re white so you can’t use Afro picks!!! What?! That’s ridiculous, again how can you expect equality if you’re not showing that same descent behavior to others. You get what you put out, so if in fact you do enjoy inequality between all races, women, and human beings as a whole, continue to draw an imaginary line of segregation. And don’t question why African Americans are treated unfairly, because it’s the same reason every other race is treated unfairly. It’s not about “our people”, it’s about people as a human race.
Thanks for that, What? But I fear your words will fall on deaf ears. Ppl want to be and stay victims. They don’t want progression.
I feel sorry for you that you equate standing up for ones self and others who share like struggles as playing victim.
I hope you share your stance concerning other cultures having their own exclusions as well, and are not just spreading your flawed reasoning on a black board directed towards black women. It seems you only feel this way toward black women being exclusive. If so that makes you a hypocrite.
So unless you are hopping on Asian, Indian, or White boards that are known to be exclusive and telling them why they shouldn’t be. Than I and others see no reason why your opinion is relevant.
This shows more about you and others bias concerning black people.
Listen, no one has to “GAIN equality” I was born EQUAL to you regardless of skin color, or whatever else. No one has to gain equality. I will be equal to you WITHOUT anyone’s permission,including YOURS. This is the thing with CONFUSED individuals such as yourself, you just don’t want to see the truth and so you delude yourself with the lies that you tell yourself.
But anyway, you have managed to make the MOST useless argument/comment for the day, and you deserve a simpleton award. No one is asking for equality, we are taking it, by making sure that people like you understand that the world does NOT evolve around you and your so called problems. NO one cares and for me, white women who complain about a hair texture that’s been celebrated for 100’s of years will get ignored by me, because it’s just ridiculous!! How many times do we have to explain to people like you?? THis aint’ about EVERYONE, this is about black women! You can be tan, brown, creamy gold, or EBONY, you can still be black, as long as you have an AFRICAN heritage. This is is just like the “Why can’t we say nigger?” Like, why the HELL would you all want to say the word in the first place? I have to question the intelligence and motives of a people like you. GO home, I think an episode of FRIENDS or SNL is on.
We’ll the fact of the matter is everything isn’t for everyone. The idea of segregation was only bad because we were so dependent on the people who we’re oppressing us. We aren’t them, we don’t need everything they have they don’t need everything we have. WE ARE DIFFERENT. That’s the problem we always need their approval or inclusion for it to be valid or fair. Don’t be so dependent. Branch off, let our communities thrive by ourselves. This has been proven to work with the success of black wall street in Tulsa. It can work now. Having things for ourselves JUST FOR US is not racist. It is not unfair and anyone who thinks so is ridiculous and unlearned by the ways of black culture and history. If you can’t grasp the very FACT that not everything is meant for everyone then this is a lost cause for you.
*Round of applause for this comment*
Dis sum bull-isht.
I can usually roll with inclusion, but appropriation of the word “natural”? Somebody demanding to be included in a definition of a word that was used because we needed it to? Nope.
White curly hair is not viewed the same way as black kinky/ nappy hair. Full stop. Anyone who says otherwise is not ready for a REAL conversation about this, and needs to come back when their privilege has been left on a coat hook outside the door.
I’m a black American woman with 3C hair, and even I know how people try to praise my hair and shade my 4C sisters (blood and non) at the same time. I call it out whenever I see it. I have picked my hair out into an afro and gotten comments on my job (when I worked in corporate America). Had people talk down to me, call me militant, assume my hair is a weave or a wig, one white employer referred to my hair as “funky” when it was just a regular-ass twist-out, a doctor told me that my scalp condition was because I had dreadlocks and probably didn’t wash my hair.
Girl, bye. Your fight ain’t my fight this time. Come back when you have a real issue, though. I may just ride with you.
No one is discriminating against anyone based on color. Why don’t you go tell that to all the racists that go on YouTube channels calling black people and other people of color all kinds of names?
It’s not their whiteness that people are against, it’s their so called privilege, nerve to try to take over something that wasn’t meant for them, and the inequality that people dislike. Believe it or not, black people weren’t the dividing people based on skin color.
You know good and well that if team natural spread to anyone with a texture, black people would get pushed off their own sites and it will become about “them” instead of ALL women with textured hair. If blacks had been treated like they matter at all as human beings, then this discussion would not be taking place. White women would be welcome with open arms. I personally would love if everyone could get along and we could all appreciate your differences and hold hands and kumbaya but that isn’t reality.
However, that is not the case and the whole thing seems flat out shady if not slightly trollish. Does not seem like there is a genuine interest at all,just another way to claim something that wasn’t meant for them just for the heck of it.
Of course not all white women are like that but the sudden interest from the ones that seem so taken aback at our “excluding” them seems suspicious. It isn’t that they are white at all. It is the intent behind it that gives people pause.
I make a point of never reading comments that start with “first of all.” Thanks for stating your point of view JC. I too believe that natural hair should be inclusive and not exclusive and make a point of NOT joining any natural hair communities that are exclusive. While our journey’s are not all exactly the same, there is a lot to be learned from each other as women. As much as I dislike that the feminist movement tends to be all about white women, I am not about to then turn around and say natural hair should simply be about black women. We can’t expect other’s to include us if we spend our time self-sheltering!
So you have an issue about feminism (which is inclusive in it’s nature, and was always historically advertised as inclusive) being strong-armed by white women, but not with white women for wanting to strong-arm their way into a movement that has always been exclusive under the guise of “exclusion is not fair”?
You do realize the only reason Feminism was successful was because they were allowed to integrate into our larger movement for Civil Rights, right?
Funny how things like that work out.
“American women of wealth, education, virtue and refinement, if you do not wish the lower orders of Chinese, Africans, Germans and Irish, with their low ideas of womanhood, to make laws for you and your daughters … awake to the danger of your present position and demand that woman, too, shall be represented in the government!”
-Elizabeth Cady Stanton
(So you have an issue about feminism (which is inclusive in it’s nature, and was always historically advertised as inclusive)
On my phone. It should be (which is inclusive in it’s nature, BUT was not historically advertised as inclusive).
Nice try, but the Feminist Movement has always included male supporters and therefore has not been simply an exclusive movement.
So how is a woman who is not black, joining a natural hair considered strong arming exactly? That’s an odd term for simply wanting to learn from people who are already knowledgeable or attempting to learn themselves.
My issue with the feminist movement is not that they are strong arming me, but that they are ignoring me, much as you are attempting to do to white women. That’s why your case is ridiculous on it’s face. We’re all women. We all have the same cause, so what difference does the woman’s racial identity make, other than it’s something for someone like you to pounce on!
Lastly, exactly when did Ms. Stanton write that verse, and why do you believe it applies to this discussion? We talk about all that we want in this country, then spend our time looking to separate ourselves as we were once separated by force, for no other reason than misplaced animosity. Grow up, already!
They were not allowed to integrate into the Civil Rights movement, but there was a realization we could not reach our goals without a united effort that spanned racial identity. It is seriously troubling how you and other’s here have manged to mangle history!
Explain other instances of mangling history. I really just like debating/flexing, so I’m legit interested in your opinion. If you want, I can link documentaries and such in a later post.
I never said it didnt include others. Hell, Frederick Douglass was a feminist (and influenced by Elizabeth Stanton). The quote comes from a book called “White women’s Rights!” quotes from her as well as Susan B anthony are found in both. There are a pretty decent library of books talking about her (and others). Elizabeth Cady Stanton : An American Life(compilations of personal writings, interviews during the Suffrage movement, biographical info) is another good one. Beyond the Pale: white women, racism, and history is good as well.
It is considered “strong-arming” (aka appropriating), because the natural hair movement was started because (in part) of them. They are the beauty standard, Black women are the inverse. That’s like the tweaking debacle and Miley Cyrus (who is a feminist hero by the way). The use of Black bodies, and a dance we are usually seen as “ratchet” for doing is strong arming us. Black women and their ghetto booties or lips aren’t deemed attractive, yet everybody loves Angelina Jolie and Iggy Azalea. Appropriation of ethnic-associated features, while simultaneously continuing to shame us for having them is the strong-arming I’m talking about.
White women have not entirely been innocent in our mistreatment . A white woman single-handedly caused the destruction of Rosewood in 1923, after all. I think the racial relations between white women and non-white women (from a historical point) are actually pretty interesting. I found that we rarely (if ever) bring up white women.
I brought up Elizabeth Cady Stanton because she is the first of many who were “pro-feminism”, but did not view minorities as fitting into their movement. Famous feminists like Susan B. Anthony, as well as Margaret Sanger (the mother “Planned Parenthood” and a known proponent of Eugenics and forced sterilization of Black people), as well as Helen Pits also held low opinions (i.e. ‘racist’) of Black/African American people. And it continued well into and after the Civil rights Era.
When the opportunity came for major moves to be made (when the push for Civil Rights began), strategy proves the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Not to say that anybody is mortal enemies of anybody else, just white male patriarchy is the enemy of people of color as well as white women (different reasons, but same result). Joining together and taking them down a peg means both parties get what they want.
We are all women, but not all women face the issue of being a Black woman. In this regard, you and I are different. Women of color in general have unique situations. Black women have the highest abortion rates, the highest rate of AIDS infection. We are the only race of women who has a Sarah Baartman. We are the only race that has a study (in the 21st century) that states we are the least attractive woman on Earth.
We are the ones being singled out for our hair at work and at school. We are the ones being singled out for wearing weaves, coloring our hair, wearing makeup. We are the most at risk for becoming victims of domestic violence. We are who Reagan was talking about when he described “Welfare Queens”. We are the least likely to be married (taking into account the lgbqt community and women who don’t want to be married, that’s still REALLY high for any group). Racial barriers should not exist, but they do.
The point of movements this one about Natural hair are to take down the barriers and heal within our own communities first and foremost.
LOL! You have GOT to be kidding…right? You are quoting Susan B. Anthony and applying her logic to white people today, who live in a very different world? Sorry, I too like a good debate, but I prefer those I debate to be starting from a point of logic, and you are not there yet.
I am very disappointed with this article Jc. Considering the fact that this website is called Black Girl Long Hair and the fact that the natural hair movement is for women with Afro textured hair. I see no reason why white people should be included or excluded. same way the civil rights movement wasn’t for the white, i feel the natural hair movement is not for the white. They already have so many blogs to cater to their hair and I understand parents with Black children. Still, this article is probably my least favourite of your work Jc and I respect your work so much.
http://www.themanecaptain.blogspot.ca
You see??! This is the shit I HATE! The mob mentality! I’m looking through the comments and I see that the people who agree with the article are voted down and people who disagree with it are voted up.
Downvote all you want, I REALLY dgaf, but this needs to be said. EXCLUSIVITY BREEDS EXCLUSIVITY. We’re never going to remove these dumbass racial divides when people keep retaliating in puerile ways.
I pray that ONE DAY — it won’t be in my lifetime nor will it be in my children’s lifetimes but ONE DAY we’ll be able to talk to each other without racial adjectives. A man can just be “a man” not “a BLACK man.” A woman can just be “a woman” not “a WHITE woman.”
Go on, keep breeding venom. Continue to perpetuate the divide. Teach your children that they’re different from the white kids… Because THAT’S what’s going to end racism. /sarcasm
This is all bullshit and you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. As for me, I will NEVER teach my child to discriminate based on someone else’s skin color — which is, by the way 1/32 of an inch thick. That’s how thick your skin is. 1/32 of an inch… If THAT’S what you’re making such a big effing deal about, you need to work on yourself.
….So what are you’re thoughts on getting Mainstream media/society to include and stop being racist towards us, since that’s why these movements were even created? I feel like you’re focusing on us when there’s literally a bigger issue than us having a historically Pro-Black movement.
Just curious.
I JUST said exclusivity breeds exclusivity. Stir that into your question and you’ll have your answer.
It’s not one-sided. It’s not one side that’s going to change things.
We are the most likely to integrate out of any other race. We integrated Rock music; now seeing a Black person in rock is almost impossible. We integrated Hip-Hop and R&B; white artists then left that genre to create their own – Pop. Black Hair care is almost a trillion dollar market, but there are almost no Black business owners, and “ethnic hair care” remains a small segment in the Hair care grocery store. We move into white neighborhoods, white people leave in droves. We try to move into white neighborhoods, and they redline us.
I’m legitimately curious how you see that as our fault, and also how you don’t see the difference in the two. A lot of “Black” things are not exclusive by choice. The things made “for” us are made in response to the fact that we are otherwise regarded as unimportant.
Niche markets are created out of a lack of mainstream interest or attention, not the other way around. Saying that Black people are to blame for their status, or just as equally culpable for their near invisibility in the mainstream media and society is a HUGE fallacy.
Also, this “it’s not one-sided” argument is a logical fallacy. That is literally illogical.
That’s like saying a kid attacking a stranger is the exact same thing as the stranger defending themselves from an attacker. This mean that, since they are exactly the same both parties are equally responsible and the same punishment should be handed out.
Or saying that pedophiles having a preference for children is the exact same thing as the preference heterosexual people have for the opposite sex, or homesexuals who prefer the same sex therefore pedophilic relations are just as acceptable as relations between two consenting adult.
This is also illogical because you’re implying that a minority representing and celebrating themselves (a direct consequence of Racism) is the ROOT of racism/systematic oppression, and is thus why it is perpetually a problem.
It implies the problem will always be found in the consequences of an occurrence. Like victim-blaming in cases of abuse and sexual assault, it shifts attention away from the perpetrator to find “legitimate” reasons why the victim was targeted. There is no excuse for a behavior that seeks to DOMINATE/HUMILIATE/DEGRADE a person (or racial group).
That’s what you got out of this? That we (Black people) are the ones “making a big deal” out of skin color? Did you actually read all of the history and experiences in the upvoted comments? Or did you just come in here with your holier than thou ‘I’m above race’ attitude planning to ram more bs down our throats?
I know that the epithelial layer that contains melanocytes is a fraction of an inch thick. I’m sure that the White dermatologist who told me that “Black women just have spottier skin” and basically refused to help me find a solution for my cystic acne when I was 15 knew that too.
Can I ask you a couple more questions? What do you look like, and where are you from? Because I smell privilege, and it stinks.
I am a first generation 100% African immigrant. I moved to America with my family when I was 3 years old. But thanks for your completely off-base assumptions.
And no, I’m not blaming BLACK people. I’m blaming PEOPLE. ALL people of ALL races. They’re the worst. This isn’t one-sided.
Mhmm. So I was right–you are operating from a privileged perspective: African privilege. You’re trying to act like your experiences are more valid than mine, when they are nowhere close to the same, as White people (when they choose to differentiate Black origins) hold native Africans on pedestal above African Americans. You seem to be one of those Africans that looks down upon and distances their self from other people of color in the U.S. because you have fully absorbed White society’s messages about them. Girl bye.
You’re trying to belittle people sufferings by stating skin is 1/32 of an inch thick yeh blah blah we get that, so? That didn’t stop white people from making us slaves, that didn’t stop arpatheid, that didn’t stop thousands of young black guys being blamed for crimes they didn’t do, that hasn’t stopped black people being refused jobs they are more qualified in than their white counterparts. Sorry but you’re like 500yrs too late to be crying “JUST SKIN” (Even though it’s really melanin but whatevs)
Also there is a reason those comments are thumbed down, it’s got nothing to do with the whole “mob mentality” IT is that the educated black girls on this article see what kind of BS is trying to be forced under their eyes and they’re not happy with it.
Ok. So you’re going to live YOUR ENTIRE LIFE being mad at white people for something their ancestors did? That’s like my great grandchild paying for MY crimes. It’s unfair.
I’m not belittling ANYONE’S suffering. I’m saying terrible, HORRIBLE things have happened… Such is life. But there comes a time when you have to start at least MAKING AN ATTEMPT to move on.
I’m from Africa. Straight from the heart of Africa. Do you know what black people do to EACH OTHER over there? My family and I escaped 17 years ago so I wouldn’t be kidnapped and sold into child prostitution. Black people are STILL suffering in my country, but it’s not at the hands of whites. It’s other blacks. The real enemy is hatred.
lol girl you are SO ignorant. please take this opportunity to educate yourself. what do you mean spend our life being mad at white ancestors? If black people want to THEY MOST DEFINITELY HAVE A REASON TO. They don’t even need to be mad at white ppls ancestors, they can be upset with white people today.
See that’s the problem with people, yall expect Jewish people to hate Hitler and Nazis, but black people can’t hate white people. http://ktbannon.tumblr.com/post/54131942725/and-you-know-what-the-problem-with-white-people
And this exclusivity breeds exclusivity BS, HA, sounds just like hate breeds hate. Nah boo, nothing works like that. We been excluded theres no new exclusivity to breed lmaoo. And btw being colorblind is racist for the simple fact that youre not color blind. When you walk up to a POC 9/10 you’re going to know they are a POC. So you have to look past the fact that they are a POC in order to accept them, you’re ignoring all the experiences theyve faced with oppression and basically saying you don’t care, but you can educate yourself on this topic.
I can’t deal with THIS MUCH ignorance especially with someone who isn’t trying to learn. You’ll get your wake up call:)
That is exactly what I was trying to say. Colorblind is not BS, its racist to deny it. There’s nothing wrong with noticing differences, its how we react to them that has and probably will always be a problem with other groups throughout human existence. However, what’s inspiring is if you yourself can be an example to others by your actions that you do to uplift and love yourself, that is the best example and guide for others, in my opinion. To say that I don’t recognize color, hair, shape, etc. is a lie because I have eyes and a fully developed (quite intelligent) brain, so if I can lie to myself about that everyday, what else can I lie about? I see the differences and so what? Instead I try to choose to acknowledge, respect and celebrate them (when possible). And that’s it, it does not linger, I do not try to usurp other peoples safe places, belittle their difference by denying them or at worst, be hateful of them. There are differences in all those actions, but it depends on whether these actions have negative or positive reprecussions.
It happened. It’s horrible and tragic and we need to keep teaching future generations the history of world, which includes slavery and the holocaust. I’m trying to make the point that the healing will NEVER begin if you keep blaming every new generation of white kids.
If Germany is only known as “The Face of the Holocaust,” till the end of time, nothing will EVER get done. If we continue saying “The white man is the devil because they enslaved your ancestors,” nothing will EVER get done. Living in the past has never helped anyone.
There’s no changing the past. We have to accept what happened as a part of history and try to find a way to mend ourselves without hating others.
Again, this is going to get so many negative points, but I honestly don’t give a shit. I’m sick of people defending prejudice on BOTH sides of the spectrum. There’s no one party to blame. And don’t talk down at me and call me ignorant as if I’ve never experienced prejudice. I’ve probably experienced more in my life than you have. You don’t know me, and you don’t know my life.
Lol honey that’s only going to happen in a dream. I don’t understand why you’d want to erase people s cultural background anyway.to be colorblind is to be racist, and you seem to want marginilized people to just forgive and forget CENTURIES of oppression. LMAO back to reality we goooo
Please explain to me how choosing to be colorblind is racism.
Here you go.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism
I would think that choosing to ignore instances where a group of people are systrmatically targeted, terrorized, murdered, and preyed upon (in spite of mountains of proof that it exist, it happens, and it effects one group in particular) would make you racist. Or at least self-hating.
But it’s not like the colorblind argument hasn’t been proven to be detrimental, and in fact a more passive aggressive form of racism. I doubt you would acknowledge proof anyway.
I think you’re exaggerating what the original author said, there was no venom in the words and people have different stand points on this, and most people are okay with it. You wouldn’t or at least it wouldn’t make sense for you to go onto a site that was about taking care of white hair, there’s an exclusivity in the differences we share.
The exclusivity is about the fact we are discussing things that are inherently only relevant for US. People of other races can view these articles and comment and I would hope we would all have the decency to respect them.
That’s because I cannot PERSONALLY identify with straight white hair, but if someone can identify with MY hair texture, who am I to deny them the opportunity of getting information? Who am I to say, “No. I’M natural, you’re not. You can’t sit with us.”
Exclusivity breeds exclusivity. Soon every race is going to want something for themselves. Racial divides will take even deeper roots and before you know it, we’re back to segregating the drinking fountains.
nobody cares if white people come on this site to get some tips. thats not what this argument is about. its about the overall natural hair movement, which they are not includes in.
Well excuse me, I didn’t know black women had a monopoly on the term “natural.”
Most fears, your fear of being left out and I assume you are dealing with bi-racial/multiracial issues somewhere, comes from self-doubt, which emanates from insecurity. However, by the act of ignoring our differences you have chosen to perpetuate a melting pot, rather than a tapestry of diversity. In a majority “white” (really Westernized) world, not just country as with the influence of globalization, this melting pot is slanted towards Western ideals, and in America, it would be more white than not. I can be different and have shared and different experiences which does not comment or “exclude” you; yet, insecurities about being left out or, to put it bluntly, that having these beautiful Black women walking around loving everything about them that is Black will make you less valuable or your beauty less appreciated. You are the only person who can do that, as self-love is the first love and the greatest and that will enable you to love others. If the lesson you are teaching your children is to ignore their differences, you are teaching them that differences are the only thing that matters and possibly differences are what make them ugly or less valuable, rather than all of our differences can be celebrated as much as all of our commonalities, as an integral part of our identities. Therefore, they will learn to hate or judge their differences, which will always be observed, as differences are a part of the human experience(read the psychology book, “looking out, looking in” or a decent developmental psychology book), in favor of this melting pot you preach. It is the interplay between our differences and our similarities which makes various communities and makes us beautiful in our uniqueness AND humanity. In the end, this lesson you teach to your children to ignore skin color (and we’re talking about hair textures here, so I dunno where that came from), is focusing more on Black and White just as much as someone who teaches their children prejudice (not racism that’s different). To me, it seems like you are more uncomfortable with your differences, (possibly your differences from your children), than people who are comfortable with themselves and self-assured, with their differences and oneness with humanity. In all of my multi-cultural relationships, I did and do not shy away from being a Black woman (currently my husband is Algerian and White). At the same time, I have always celebrated our commonalities, since we would have to get along somehow, either in sexual relationships or friendships; but, I have also learned and enriched my life from when I can participated in my past lovers, my husband or friends’ communities (whether Korean, Middle Eastern, Turkish, Haitian, White, poor, Mid-west or Southern, etc.), which were previously not as accessible to me. These were opportunities to grow and enrich my human experience, not opportunities for me to ignore beautiful parts of their identities. Yes, you are correct, it is not just about skin color.
Thank you, Dr. Freud, for your ASTUTE observation. I mean, you’re 100% wrong, but thanks for trying anyway.
No. By teaching my children to ignore EXTERNAL differences, I’m teaching them not to judge a book by its cover; that there’s more to people than what’s on the outside. You don’t need to lose yourself to include others.
I’m a first generation African immigrant. I am well aware of my background and my history and I know HOW it makes me different. I just choose not to use that difference as a tool to alienate others. I know a LOT of Africans (some of them in my own family) who look down their noses at African-Americans. They will be quick to correct someone who calls them “African-American.” Should “pure-blooded” Africans have a platform they can stand on while excluding African-Americans? I mean, we ARE a minority in the states and African-Americans don’t have the same customs or struggles as us.
And no. We ALL know it’s NOT just about hair texture. It’s about skin color. Even if a white woman showed up with kinky hair, people would still turn her away and accuse her of having privilege.
I may have gotten the issue wrong, but you have issues with being different and how people judge others for their differences. Who cares, even if they are the majority, about when people judge others unfairly? We choose to care and then judge, thereby perpetuating a cycle of self-doubt, low self-esteem and low confidence, that others have tried to instill in us. Why should I tell others what to do and how to do it unless I’m projecting my own issues of self-doubt onto them? That’s the bottom-line to me and yet your reply comment seemed to illustrate that point along with the article. I don’t care to judge, (at least I try not to as much as humanly possible), but try to practice celebrating those differences instead of continuing to carry the mental burden of being shamed by those differences.
I’m really not sure how you got that I have issues with being different out of what I said.
I stand out. I love my differences. I just don’t use my differences as a tool to alienate others. I don’t know how else to word that.
the website is called BLACKgirllonghair. not every race long hair. If you want all races included then you’re on the wrong site. Try curlynikki or naturallycurly. But if you don’t realizes why exclusivity is a necessity in a world that excludes us from everything else you need help.
Its not that people who disagree are ganged up on, many of us just want a space of out own. Until 6th grade i was the only black girl in my school and all i saw around were differences (even though some kids did have curly hair.) When every i look at magazines and movies i continue to see women who are deemed as beautiful who are nothing like me. The natural hair community is the only place where a lot of black women feel they don’t have to conform to the medias ideas ideas of beauty and i don’t see why you’re against that.
Having no exclusive spaces for POC (while non-POC spaces continue to operate without inclusion) only leaves POC with no spaces and non-POC with every space. It does not encourage or foster inclusivity from non-POC spaces.
I remember a few years ago there were all these initiatives to get more models of color on the runways in Paris and Milan. The designers iced out black models for 2 seasons. The hold the lions share. If they start opening the door, then we can CONSIDER sharing space with them.
Your skin is 1/32th” thick, but it’s your largest organ, it’s fairly important…
I find it kind of funny JC that you even used this picture to prove your point but actually it does quite the opposite. Look at all these type 3 curl gurls, there’s no type 4 chicks, no dreadlocks bahah just the “Good Hair” type 3 curls that everbody is so obsessed with. IF you look closely you will see that the WHITE PALE GIRL is front and centre whilst the extremely light skinned black girl is pushed to the edges. That is what will happen when you let white people whine and cry their way into our spaces. They will Hijack it, claim it as their own and then push us to the side lines. In case you’re gonna disagree that they hijack stuff let me give you this hashtag to refresh your memory #bringbackourgirls
Hannah, Thanks for your comment! However, I actually found the picture to run with this piece. JC just wrote the article. I was looking for a photo of a multicultural group of curlies and it was really hard to find. I spotted this one and used it. It’s from a CURLS ad. You can see it in the slideshow at the top of their site: http://www.curls.biz/
Ugh, “Natural hair should be for everyone”. Please. Where is this sentiment with the beauty standards and the being treated an equal with natural hair in the workplace.
Being treated as an equal and seeing my hair as beautiful as someone with straighter hair should be for everyone also.
While I believe that anyone can be “natural” in the sense of accepting what you have. This whole notion that white women being included and black women being exclusive is a bit hypocrytical and SELFISH. Where were all these people when the movement just started? Now that it’s gained momentum and success, they want their piece of the pie. No, you didn’t earn your right to be part #team natural because like poster said, “Where are the receipts?
Wait, you’re arguing that since they weren’t here in the beginning they shouldn’t be here now? Please understand that the “natural movement” can only become more and more successful from people continuously joining. I admit that I was not apart of this movement years ago (mostly due to the fact that I had not even heard of it, just like a lot of other people). I am not here just to get a piece of the “pie” though. I am here to educate and embrace myself – which is honestly starting to become hard to do from reading such an immense amount of comments on various articles tearing down white women trying to join this movement.
I thought the only requirement to be #teamnatural was to embrace your natural hair by saying no to chemicals. If there are more requirements than just that, then whatever #teamnatural you are apart of is nothing less than stereotypical high school girls that pride themselves on popularity but in reality are just bullies.
All in all, I fell in love with this movement because of how it pushes people to love themselves for themselves and to not be concerned with what other people deem as appropriate or inappropriate for you. However, I’m starting to get weary because a lot of women (surprisingly) knowingly, or maybe unknowingly, are doing just that. Love yourself, YOURSELF, and encourage EVERYONE to do the same – not just your race.
….Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If you (meaning the white person) didn’t care to represent, speak up for, or care to join us in the beginning, then why join now?
The movement has always been about black people. Always. There’s a reason for that. If you choose to ignore the history and inportance of celevrating our culture, you are truly the root of the problem. Its not avout becoming successful, its about finding acceptance and love in ourselves. The movement’s goal has ALWAYS been about seeing and understanding that Black is beautiful, and that we need to see the veauty in ourselves as a commubity before we can do anything else.
If white people really wanted to contribute, they would be working to spread true acceptance in their own community. Are all white people racist? No, and I really feel like its actually a minority of white people who are.
But racism has always been able to succeed the way it has. Because the majority either don’t care (because it does not negatively affect them, or they’re reluctant to learn how to truly help us (because that requires admitting you are more privileged. People don’t like to be made to feel bad about themselves, even if its something they need to hear). There are very few white people who are truly willing to help. That is the reason blogs like this were even created. It was never about being a bully to white people. No mainstream avenues wanted to cater to us, even now. There are ple plenty of magazines and films and commercials without a single black person. How do you think that feels, when nobody is paying attention to you or giving you a chance? How do you think it feels to know nobody sees you as beautiful, and nobody wants to promote people who look like you to mainstream society? Because thats the reason blogs like this were created. So we can be viewed as beautiful when nobody else is willing to lift us up.
Black spaces have always been “exclusive”, because MAINSTREAM WHITE SOCIETY chooses not to represent us. Instead of whining about us being immature and ignoring the history of the movement, why don’t you worry about how you can fix things like this – since that’s reason the movement has been gaining traction (AGAIN)?
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That’s right! Preach.
PREACH! Im telling y’all, the only time white people care about representation is when they are not included. Let’s look at the literally countless shows with all white casts(which is no coincidence)I hear nothing. Then we get one channel BET and they’re crying racism. I feel sad for anyone that thinks this issue doesn’t go any deeper than hair.
This article is stupid.
Just let their cries fall on deaf ears. That’s what they’ve been doing to us for centuries.
Two wrongs don’t make a right but you have to draw the line somewhere.
The picture for this article is the perfect symbol for everything it represents: three white women (or maybe two white woman and a hispanic woman, i cant really tell) and only one black woman, on a website called BLACKgirllonghair. Including white people (at least for now while the movement is going to strong) will only lead black women being pushed aside and forgetting what the movement was really about, which was loving our OWN hair..
Ontop of that I’m pretty sure the Black woman in that pic is wearing a weave. Its like, wtf were you thinking…
Amen to that.
I don’t know why the writer thinks that excluding white women from the natural hair community includes excluding white mothers who are doing their black children’s hair. that’s not what the debate is about
@Adía
Yup. Straw-man argument. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
To the left…
I think because it is scary and stressful to think that you are left out of a part of your black children’s hair. Most fears come from our self-doubts, which emanate from our insecurities (generally speaking); so, the part about excluding white women with black children from the conversation is a concern that comes from her issues, not from all natural Black females issues with multiracial hair. My husband is White/Middle Eastern and it won’t surprise me if they’re hair is different than mine, well then she has his family and their community to draw upon. Period.
This is all very simple guys. If you believe we need to not be exclusive, you need to come with facts. Real data proving how exclusion from a pro-Black movement is the equivalent of slavery (or apartheid *side-eyes*. I need historically factual and contextually based evidence. Where’s the evidence of long term inclusion from other races of Black women? Where are the (CREDIBLE) sources proving that Reverse Racism is alive and well?
Because it has been provided on one side, and the other side has been giving us “well I don’t experience that!” and “ugh you guys! Slavery has nothing to do with it!” and “Not all white people!” Instead of opinion….where are you guys’ proof?
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Correction! *long term inclusion from non-Black women* 🙂
@Truth: PREACH!!! I am afraid, though, that not enough of us are conscious and aware enough to hear and overstand what you are saying.
This kind of navel-grazing right here is why white people are always stealing your shit from you. They took your rock music. They took your hip-hop and your rap. They want bits and pieces of your culture, your history, your fashion, your language, your dances and you just hand it over to them with a smile because you think it’ll make them like you. Except it doesn’t. They just manipulate it, mangle it beyond recognition and sell it to their white friends and they can’t even give you the credit, let alone the profit. And then suddenly what started out as yours, what started out as a way to celebrate yourself and your blackness in a society, in a world, that HATES everything black, has become just another product for white people to consume and throw away and you are nowhere to be found in any of it.
You keep deluding yourself thinking white women truly want to uplift “all women” and can’t see how this sudden need to be included is a direct response to the positive attention black women are getting in the media these days. Black women like Lupita and Kerry and Beyonce and Laverne who are smart and beautiful and talented and brave and are redefining beauty in a way that challenges current norms. Don’t think for one second that white women don’t have a vested interest in maintaining white standards of beauty. They have no reason to uplift black women and black beauty because the status quo as is works entirely in their favor. Because even though they are devalued as women, at least they are praised as white.
If white women wanted inclusiveness, they would’ve been by your side from day one, fighting this fight with you. They wouldn’t be jumping in now, years later, now that the natural hair movement is undeniably popular, now that the heavy lifting has been done COMPLETELY by you, demanding their fair share like they were in it from jump. Black hair and beauty is big billion-dollar business, and black women don’t own even 1% of it. And now you want to give the small part you can claim as yours away to white women before it’s barely even off the ground?
Tell me this: where were white women when black women were complaining about the lack of hair products for black women in mainstream? Where were white women when black women were complaining about the lack of beauty products for black women in mainstream? Where were white women when black women were flipping through pages and pages of fashion magazines and never seeing themselves reflected in any of the images in mainstream? Where were white women when it was impossible to see a black woman on TV rocking the hair that grows from her head? When it was impossible to see black women on TV at all? THEY WEREN’T THERE.
They were telling you to MAKE YOUR OWN. The default response to black women’s cries for better representation is always, always make your own. No sympathy. No calls for better representation from your so called white “sisters”, the ones you’re trying so hard to defend and include right now. Just shut up and do it yourself. So you did. You made something great and beautiful and you made black beautiful and now those same women who ignored you when you wanted to be included in their beauty, in their fashion, now they suddenly want, no demand, to be included in yours.
So my question to all the black women who keep tripping over themselves to include white women in a movement made to celebrate black women is this: why the hell do you keep giving and giving and giving to people who never give back? Why the hell do you think it’s your responsibility to be inclusive to people who have made not one, not two but THREE beauty industries (make-up, hair and fashion) that specifically, unabashedly, even arrogantly, exclude black women? Why do you think that you still have to carve out space for white women in the tiny corner that you have managed to create for yourself, when they couldn’t even be bothered to do the same for you? At what point do you stop being fucking doormats and own your shit instead of giving it away for free for five seconds of flattery from white women who will go back to ignoring you once they get what they want?
I’ll tell you this much: my beautiful baby sister has embraced her natural hair at 14, something I couldn’t do until I was 21. And it’s because black women have finally taken ownership of their beauty by creating safe spaces for themselves. You keep welcoming massa into those spaces with warm milk and cookies without expecting them to do their part and fight the virulent racism on their own turfs before demanding room in yours, and watch how quickly that safeness goes away. Watch how quickly you get decentralized and watch how quickly we regress back to white standards of beauty and black women become ugly again.
Don’t you people ever learn? None of this is new.
They can never answer this. Lmao you will never get a response to age old question of “Well, we keep giving, so why aint we getting anything back???! :(“. They will read your comment ready to defend the poor excluded majority against the “elitist, mean, petty Black folks”.
Then they get to the “well, how do we handle this?” or the “what do you suggest about that?”, and they just move on to the next equally vague, useless NuNegro comment with praise and agreement.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
shit… I got kinda teary eyed just reading this! I commend you sister for your articulate words! You really hit the nail on the head!!
Beautiful response!
No they never learn, they will keep making the same mistakes and hurting themselves. Excellent post btw.
Black women were never “ugly” and never will be, and that’s the problem. They want us to believe our hair is difficult, and that “white” is the default setting for humans. They did it with Native Americans with the skin color thing, the Native was red because they saw the white woman and blushed” did you know that? Either way, you know they believe they are the default setting for humans and that everyone else needs to “fix” themselves, in order to be more presentable, and make them feel comfortable, and yes black people believed for centuries that we needed to “fix” ourselves.
You. Better. Preach. Broken down like a damn fraction. Yet not one of those sellouts will answer your questions. But the answer is, they are willing to hand over what black women have built because they love whiteness more. They think the natural hair movement is nothing unless we have white women in our community. They privilege whiteness and are flattered, like the simpletons they are, that white women want to be our “sisters”. It’s really quite pathetic.
I just feel there is already a “fight” with promoting and supporting kinky/coily hair just within the black community. I mean we just had an article not too long ago saying type 4 naturals were getting less views/likes on Youtube and other social media than someone with type 3 hair. It’s great there are white women embracing their natural curly hair instead of turning to chemical treatments, but there is a fear if they join the natural movement type 3c-4 hair might be pushed even more into the background. I might think a little differently if, just as someone commented, afro-natural hair is taught in beauty schools and companies like Herbal Essence, Aussie, and others featured type 4 naturals since a lot of naturals use their products. But how soon is that going happen?
reading this made my eyes bleed. The ignorance is strong in this piece.
Yes, this piece is very ignorant. Actually, that’s why I love that we can live in a world where we can express our opinions because this piece clearly demonstrates the argument for exclusivity to heal. As an attorney, a Black woman educated in top private institutions around the world and I have traveled to almost half of the world, I have been among many different people where exclusivity is not even a world, it is a shared culture and experience; and, also I have been in mostly all white communities almost my whole life. So this article, when I read it, reflects the daily ignorance I encountered. An ignorance I can demonstrate by posing the alternative, to imagine you as White young female maturing with natural hair in an all-Black community. This happens in America, but it is much rarer and even more rare in middle to upper income socioeconomic levels. Why this piece is ignorant is because it says that our culture and shared experience is not unique and is shared by everyone. I do not see these statements being made to the Korean American community or the Dominican community simply because they have a language that accompanies their culture. When someone tries to tell me a 30 year old Black woman from New York that the fact that my great grandfather was a freed slave, my grandfather grew up during the Jim Crow era and my mother remembered Brown vs. Board of Education and that I can remember racist incidents where my family and I have been called racial epithets and someone attempted run us off the road or when a Black man at my college (the top college in the country) found it acceptable to tell me that he wants to marry a White or Asian woman because his children would be better off in America, are not experiences that have to be healed and are unique to a Black WOMAN’s experience, I find it ignorant. It is ignorant because everyone thinks that they are the only ones who ever struggle with problems and identity issues; instead, of opening their minds to realize that everyone struggles with these issues AND that these issues may be unique to them and require their own paths to healing. Personally, Americans tend to have an individual-centered and ego-driven mentality that obscures the importance of community and makes our individual issues seem so much more important than other individuals and different types of communities. I would not dare to dream of telling my best friend who is a Black gay Christian male that I should always be included in the gay community (I am heterosexual) or his Christian community, as those are not my identities and I can only provide external support and compassion, but not a complete understanding of what he goes through on a daily basis. I also could not completely empathize with the white female experience in America as well, although I have had to adapt and be in those communities most of my life (not all of my life because of my family involvement), so I cannot imagine how another person who has not had to be a minority can say that they can empathize, share an exclusive community and then turn around and call Black women racist for wanting a safe space from that same judgment. Therefore, it is ignorant, yes, and ego-centered to believe that you can contribute to an all-natural Black woman community while ignoring the shared experiences, history and culture which guides our paths to self-love and healing.
I think being natural is for everyone!
For me its a lifestyle of accepting yourself the way you have been created and avoiding things that harm you.
This includes hair, as well as your general being. Thus, for me stopping to relax my hair has influenced other areas of my life and has lead to me working out regularly, doing yoga, avoiding toxic substances in hygiene articles (including monthly hygiene),as well as avoiding hormonal contrapeptives etc.
I think way should be gone by everyone. And of white women feel inspired to accept and love themselves and to do whats good for them, why not?
In the end we’re all one.
We are not one and if you believe that then you are quite naive. White women are not confronting the issues that affect African-American women. Being natural as so many call this movement is more than about what hairstyle should I wear outside today! The issue(s) surrounding people of color especially Black people throughout the world is more about them being being able to dictate their relevance upon this world and not being deemed to follow the path that others set for them!
Sigh…Ashamed that Black women can never have anything that is our own. In my opinion, the movement is just for black women with different types of Afro hair. Even black men are the enemy, because worse they have never accepted our hair, so this is not the black natural hair movement, it’s the black woman natural hair movement. All of you ask “Where were white women? blah, blah?” But where were black men? This is not coming from a feminist point of view, I just think that speaks volumes about black men who never supported us black women and our hair and even put us down about our natural hair. After all why did we start wearing hair weaves and relaxed hair? Black men didn’t date girls with “nappy hair” and they still don’t.
I’ve never been one who’s impressed with anyone’s hair whether it be type 0 or 4c.Just not a hair person. I’ve always been an eye person. But anyway, white women with black children, that has nothing to do with the argument. The problem is these white women start seriously complaining about having hair that’s basically STILL white hair, yet they’re not feeling “accepted”? Like, for real? I highly doubt they get called anything worse than “poodle head” for having hair like that.
I’ve had white women come up to me and have the audacity to say, “they had hair just like mine” and I tell them “I highly doubt it” I always give those type of white women the side eye glance. So what we need to do is consider this the black woman natural hair movement. When have black men supported us with this? And I don’t want to hear how your perfect hubby supported you through your natural hair transition. I’m saying as a group, where have black men been? You all say women don’t support each other, but black men don’t support black women either?
I wish we could see that as black women, this natural hair movement has the ability to inspire ALL types of women all over the world,
I see nothing wrong with that.
There is nothing wring with us inspiring them. There is something wrong with them co-opting us.
Inspiration is good – not the issue.
Take over es bad.
One side wants inclusiveness, the other sides wants exclusiveness. I can see valid points for each argument and it took me some time to realize certain things after reading many comments and different perspectives.
As I stated on other sites there are obviously much deeper rooted issues among the black community that only we as a people can fix. We cannot wait around for anyone other than our own to bring us ALL
together in order to work this out. And we cannot allow differences in opinions and lack of full understanding on these issues to cause a division among our community. ALL sides of this issue need to be dissected and discussed in a respectful, reasonable and thorough manner vs approaching the issue by attacking each other.
Now because of our history, the black community has been brainwashed and conditioned for generations until this day, to think and be a certain way and because of this we need the exclusivity without any distractions to
focus and heal. Whether this exclusivity is temporary or not, it is
necessary regardless. No one outside of this community can better understand and try to come to a solution than the people who have dealt with it. We are the people that are continuously faced with these issues,
so it is only right that the solution starts with us.
Now, I’ve noticed major differences in opinions between the people who are new to embracing their hair and or new to the online natural hair community vs those who have been around since the beginning of this online community/movement, this is what I am noticing from reading the comments. A lot of people are giving their 2 cents without a deep understanding of how it all started. They’re just looking at it from a very one sided view.
I think what everyone needs to understand is that due to our history, the brainwashing, the conditioning, the struggles etc that black people experience is the reason why this #naturalhairmovement started to begin with. The #teamnatural, #naturalhairmovement and terms/phrases a like, where did these terms/phrases derive from? It was the black community. Why did this come about? To re-condition, undo all the years of brain-washing, to teach and to encourage self acceptance in terms of who we are, our beauty and hair among the black community. I believe this was the intention of creating the natural hair movement. There wasn’t anyone running around using these terms before until now which is why the connotations that follow the word natural in this context applies only to black the black community. Because of the connotations, these phrases/words “Natural,” ‘team natural’ and ‘natural hair movement’ are very symbolic to the black community which is why some are very sensitive about other people who are loosely throwing these terms around and have not and never will truly understand, or experience the struggles that most black people are faced with. People are afraid that these terms will loose their true value if people who cannot relate to our struggles continuously throw these words around. I see people getting hung up on the words misunderstanding the significance of the terms. Adding to what I mentioned about of course anyone has rights to use the the word natural any which way they please. Whatever natural means to anyone else, so be it, you define what it is for yourself because that is what matters. The black community is not saying that the universal word natural is exclusive to to blacks only, but in this situation at hand, in this context, what matters are the connotations that are attached to the word natural. So the exclusiveness that this community is demanding is necessary, how else will we heal. Let us heal first and then maybe later on down the line we can figure out the inclusiveness that others feel necessary to bring everyone together. Until such time, ALL are welcome to view our community to learn and be inspired because as Jc mentioned, we have to think about the children especially children with parents who are not black and completely clueless our hair.
Come on people, instead of being so lost in your heads and in your own thoughts and opinions, lets be open minded and hear each other out. We can all learn from each other. Let’s work this out peacefully.
I meant to say **Until such time, ALL are welcome to view our online communities in order to learn and be inspired because as Jc mentioned, we have to think about the children especially children with parents who are not black and completely clueless about our hair. We can still share our communities in that sense while still bing exclusive. A perfect example is this website and other websites a like. They are open to the public and all are welcome to view and learn but still specifically focuses on the needs of the black community and their hair care. Hope that makes sense.
No, we don’t have to think about them! If they have a black child in their home then they should have enough love and intelligence to seek out the information that they need for the child in their household. You need to keep in mind this so called natural movement is not just about finding yourself and wearing cute hairstyles, not relaxing/choosing to relax/perm,what new hairline to try, what hair show to attend or does Beyoncé comb Blu’s hair or not! Just Sayin! So much more relevance to the issue(s)! White folks ain’t tryin to spend their time lookin out for Black folks issues on a worlwide basis. See, blacks folks around the world are facing many of the same issues and especially as it relates to hair. By the way if you think I tryin to hate on white folks wrong. My mom is bi-racial and my dad is white!
In the end, the blogger makes the final decision as to what they put on their blog, not the readers.
In the end, it is up to me, the reader, to decide whether it is worth it to continue to visit a blog that pushes ideas that are not useful to me, justifies what is clearly **wrong**, or no longer serves me or caters to people like me, with nappy, **natural** hair, like mine.
This piece by JC justifying/defending inclusivity, on the heels of the Ouidad Oilgate piece are a signal to me that direction that this blog is going in, might not be in the direction that I am traveling. My eyes are open and yes, I AM paying attention.
First of all, lets discuss marginalism. Do you think White people in Africa cry over their lack of representation in the media or marketing? I don’t think so. Truth of the matter is, Black people are a minority in a majority White dominated country, don’t expect White people to create something and then include us, as some form of favour. That is symptomatic of an inherent inferiority complex.
Second of all, White people also used the notion of exclusivity to propagate segregation, effects of which are still being felt generations after. It’s one thing to say we want a place of our own, it’s another thing to deny someone else access because they don’t look like you. Sound familiar?.
People often refer to appropriation of Black culture by White people. How many times did we see Black musicians sing a song in the 40’s onwards (maybe earlier) and it barely makes a dent on the charts, yet that same song, given to a White musician and it goes number 1. Ever asked yourself why? Monopoly and Relativity. Rock became cool when the White guy’s sang it, because the majority White kids had an idol they could finally relate to, who do you think sells more albums Eminem or Kanye West? who has the bigger market base?. When you have the power, you assimilate the positive aspects of other cultures into your own and claim it. Big companies consume up innovative small companies all the time, once you control it,there’s another rival you have stifled.
Black institutions are a must if we are to control our own destiny. If you’re relying on the institutions created by the White man to do everything for you, then I’m sorry you already lost the battle because a White face will always trump a Black or Brown face when all the people making the important decisions are White, don’t expect anything but marginalisation. Either we, as Black people earn the skills needed to get into those positions or create our own institutions to cater for our needs. It’s like walking into a White man’s supermarket and complaining they don’t cater for Afro-American/Caribbean needs. The Chinese created China Town as an example to cater for the needs of their people.
Finally, the only way we as a people will move forward is to stop victimising ourselves and get out of the lull of inferiority complex. How do we achieve this? Education. I’m not referring to going to college to study frankly, stupid courses but the STEM subjects and Finance, Economics, Business, Law. It’s about getting our people into the powerful positions, there’s only so much sports, music and art will elevate a people.
Sorry in advance for the long post and these are not revolutionary ideas by any means, it is something our forefathers had and executed but somehow it’s been lost.
I remember when Obama became President back in 2008, most Black people celebrated like they were becoming president, they thought now that we have a Black president all our troubles and problem would suddenly cease to exist but when reality finally set in and they came to the realisation that actually Obama wasn’t going give any preferential treatment to Black people, people started saying Obama isn’t our president. LOL. I saw a publication on the internet that Black people have a higher unemployment under Obama than under Bush.
It’s about time we stopped this naive charity seeking attitude. When you decide to be unambitious and decide to spend your entire life packing boxes, when the economy takes a turn for the worse and jobs are being cut, they wont cut the doctors, they wont cut engineers, they wont cut the accountants, they wont cut the lawyers nor the economists nor the computer scientists the country will always needs these people, its those at the bottom of the market they’ll let go. Ambition and Education.
I’m sorry for this because I kinda see where you’re coming from a la President Obama, but you lost me with “charity-seeking attitude.” Let me serve up a slice of my reality to you:
I graduated with a Bachelor’s Degree in Fisheries and Wildlife in 2013 (basically, an applied biology degree focusing on zoology and conservation ecology; lots of math, lots of chemistry, lots of research). Before I graduated, I applied to a prestigious graduate school (made it to interviews, didn’t get in) and every entry level job in my field that I set sights on. I was eventually hired as an independent contractor (read: no benefits, taxes are not automatically withdrawn) at a federal research facility in my college town, but it was only because I knew somebody there–a White male the same age as me, same major, who was hired into a term position there. He helped me because I helped him pass a few of our required courses. Yet, he was hired into a higher paying, higher level, more stable position *raises eyebrows*. Anywho, within months, I was forced to resign due to a hostile work environment, full of microaggressions, lies, and demeaning, petty intimidation tactics. The only job I could get after that was as a cook in a restaurant. After quitting there for basically the same reasons as my previous job, but worse (seriously), I just lucked into a kennel assistant job. I clean up dog shit for minimum wage. With a college degree. (At least I love animals). It’s not like I don’t have field experience or lab experience, because before the restaurant job, my “lowliest” (ugh, classism) job was in retail–my resume contains mostly laboratory and clerical experience. It’s not like my grades in school were tripping me up either, because despite having a pretty screwed up sophomore slump (college campuses are NOT safe for women), I still graduated with a 3.1 GPA and an above average GRE score. And it’s not like I’m not applying to EVERY job I might be the slightest bit qualified for, keeping in mind that a lot of entry level jobs in science these days are asking for a Master’s (which we, meaning Black kids in science at my institution, were never told), and that I’m not just applying to entry-level science jobs. I’m trying for graduate school again right now, because obviously, I aspire to be higher than where I currently am, and apparently, a Bachelor’s and 50,000 in student debt doesn’t mean jack for anyone anymore.
My point in saying all of this is that ambition, direction, and grades mean NOTHING for WoC in my generation–you have to get lucky with a real mentor (I didn’t have one), have the financial backing to fund an internship (they’re all unpaid and generally not near you) or study abroad opportunity (I didn’t have $4000; scholarships only covered up to 1.5k)–and then also have the ambition and the grades.
Oh, and here are a couple more examples of our reality in the U.S. for you:
-My cousin, an incredibly intelligent and educated lawyer with private firm experience, was unemployed for MONTHS recently.
-An intelligent Black man in my graduating class who graduated with a Bachelor’s in Computer Science and a minor in Math. 3.2 GPA. He works as a Spanish teacher at a local elementary school because that’s all he could get.
-my White soon-to-be-husband has an Associate’s degree, and when he applied to state jobs, he went to one interview and was hired immediately. I went to an interview for a state job, and never heard anything, nor was I even asked to another interview, despite applying to over 50 positions in the same category, dressing/behaving professionally, etc.
Forgive me, but the job market sucks right now, and passing off blame on lack of ambition smacks to me a bit too similar to the arguments the right-wing uses to legitimize obvious social and structural inequalities. THEY aren’t hiring US, and they’re doing the most not to. It’s not our fault…we were born Black, and this country grows more and more scared of us by the day.
Good luck to you. The economic environment is tough for many people — even those with degrees. I believe that “I Agree Wholeheartedly” was stating that it’s better to be educated than not when it comes to the job market, which seems to make sense.
President Obama is not the reason for high unemployment for African-Americans at this point in time nor at the time of his taking office. Also, you claim that African-Americans thought that their troubles would be over because he became president, maybe it is the circle of black folks you are most acquainted with. I don’t feel many African-Americans of a certain maturity ever took his becoming president to mean that all the social issues within our community at large would be communicated and addressed. When President Obama was first elected by popular vote, he was referred to as America’s first bi-racial president. Well, shortly after being elected he was referred to as the Black invader/imposter of the White House. Never elected by popular vote by citizens of the great old U.S.! He has been so disrespected by a vast majority of sects in this country of which he was born. He is called Nigger and every disrespectful word one can even imagine. His being bi-racial meant nothing and as of 2014, means nothing. He is seen as a Black Man which is how he describes himself. This country is turning browner but that 1% percent control this country because they have old money/new money. Blacks or African-Americans are the minority in this country and civil rights that were fought for in years past are eroding. Many of people in the AA/black community as well as poor whites are unable to attend four year or even two year colleges. You are blessed but Don’t Assume others in the AA community do not desire to have a higher education. Your point is not as simple as you ate stating. Great for you if you have achieved your dreams but you come across extremly arrogant. Are you reaching back helping your brothers/sisters to obtain the American dream?
issues will be heard, addressed and
AND BLACKS CREATED BLACK WALLSTREET AND THE WHITE FOLKS BOMBED IT! SO DONT SIT THERE AND ACT LIKE BLACK PEOPLE HAVE NEVER CREATED ANYTHING. FLORIDA HAD ROSE WOOD TOO AND IM SURE THERE ARE COUNTLESS OTHERS TO BE MENTIONED AS WELL.
On the surface to anyone this would seem like an intellectual post but “the only way we as a people will move forward is to sop victimising ourselves….how do we achieve this? education” Are you serious? Black people are victimising themselves? WE ARE THE VICTIMS. We have been the victims for hundreds of years, yeah its important to get an education but do you really think that’s going to stop oppression? Success doesn’t take your blackness away, Oprah is one of the most rich black women and she still faces blatant racism. A black young man in an ivy league school still faces blatant racism and profiling. I mean how could you possibly think that black people are playing the victim? We aren’t playing, when marginilized people speak out about their oppressions its an act of SURVIVAL. you don’t tell them to stop playing the victim and go get an education, because that is not going to do anything and if people actually think that you need to wake up and smell the roses.
This system was built for white people to always do better. Yeah we have to work twice as hard to get half of what they have, but there is still going to be racism against us as long as the system stays the same.
I so sorry I meant to thumbs up your post but click thumbs down by accident. I totally agree with you. There was a poll recently that show that Black Women were the most educated by race and gender, but how much have that helped us. Like you said with still have to work twice as hard for less. Even if you work for yourself it the same thing because who is going to be your consumer. I have meet Black women who have great education and experience but still have to charge less for their services and do twice more work than their competitor in order to get jobs, contracts, etc…
Funny thing is I don’t have to comment at all on this post. JC has been checked left, right, center, diagon..you get it.
Also I teared up with pride reading some of these comments, honestly, that so many educated and eloquent Black women here spoke up for all of us.
We don’t need to apologize for any space of support that we create for ourselves. Rock on ladies, the next generation of beautiful Black women I think will be okay.
Im from the Caribbean and so proud of American Black ladies.
If a discussion and exploration among black women that has largely been internet based has resulted non-black women being invited to the table (notice I did not mention invited to the audience) than we can stop the discussion / exploration because we have accomplished our goal. This is assuming that having non-vlack women at the table was the objective. Why have a website like bglh or cn?
I believe that this is a timely discussion because there areanu different discussions and perspectives regarding the natural hair among “black women.”. Black american women have a historical context that differs from ” black women” from the carribean, europe, Africa, and / or s america. Its interesting reading the responses across the diaspora.
white people don’t care about representation until their not included. black spaces are important, white women can join this movement as soon as there are as many cases of white people being denied jobs, discriminated against, and policies being made against them because of their hair.
See I knew something like this was going to happen sooner or later. yall have to understand the government and other higher ups won’t allow us (black women) to stand alone in our journey bc its power in it. like this website and urban bush babes and others. They are watching yall to see how much power you are generating. this is a real serious movement among us blacks and they are going to shut it down like they always have done. lol yall REALLY need to look at the history of movements in america starting in the very early 1900’s. and as for CN she is mainstream now that’s what happens to all black people when they get on top. she is trying to stay mainstream. its about the fame. But let her do her I just hope everyone pay close attention bc in another 10 years all of this will die down the same way everything “black” died down in the late 60’s early 70’s. Put Jesus Christ first yall, not hair. Theres freedom in Jesus.
even when blacks would attempt to create micro economies for themselves to distance themselves from white economies, so they could be come sufficient of themselves and sustain their own communities, whites have a HISTORY of sabotaging on purpose black people’s collective efforts to build their communities. they want us in position of the subjugated and powerless. because if we got to a place where we could compete on level playing field they’d be doomed. their last claim to fame is twofold: their “positive” (read: dominant) image via the media, which is why they work so hard to exclude all people of color who are showcased in a positive light; and that they control the economics of this country so that said people of color cannot get ahead.
So, I have like actual legitimate questions that have not been answered in either article (this article is doo-doo by the way):
Okay, so there’s a lot of talk about Black women being racist for not including women of non-black/African descent, right?
So, how do we get like the big media places like Cosmo and Vogue and like movies and stuff to include us? How do we get casting directors flat out tell black actors/models/etc not to show up? How do we get Mainstream Hollywood to accept “Black Hollywood” and let them be in films? How do we stop Mainstream society from shunning and ejecting us out of the things we created, like Rock music? Sure, everyone can be “natural”, but why can’t Black women be “natural” without being at risk for negative effects on job prospects/school prospects/personal lives?
Who is really at fault for the segregation of Black people? And if we allow non-black folks to enter our spaces, how come no one has ever truly given us the chance to enter theirs?
Last question: Since we are continually cast aside from Mainstream, how do you suggest we make them actually include us, so we won’t have to create positive “exclusive Black only” movements in the first place?
I would legitimately like to know how to even the playing field. Everyone talking about we should include non-black women has not given me a reason why Black women have been not included in anything that non-black women are able to enjoy (despite their attempts to get in) unless they went out and made it themselves.
I’ll wait.
I’m not sure apartheid means what you think it means…
This is a PERFECT example of when the comments are better than the actual article!
right, love it
So glad people did not just sit back and allow this nonsense to be spoon feed to us like fowl medicine that had to be endured. The whole reason for the natural movement is due to the black woman’s own exclusion in white society when it comes to our hair. So just because it is successful and demanding attention we have to include people who poses the standard of beauty we wish to break free from. Their experience is not ours! Never will be. Stop the nonsense.
I have seen the controversy stirred up. All I am saying is we have fought to be desegregated and here were are trying to segregate ourselves yet again, but this time with our hair, and not only that, we are acting with as much hatred as there was in past. All this makes me feel am in a middle of a racist meteor storm with people that still have cooped up anger only now to explode because of one white woman’s opinion of her self acceptance. There is power in numbers…be the change you want to be!!! Talk is cheap y’all
JC I am with you I hear you!!! Great article hahaha (No am serious, I totally agree with you)
I totally agree. People are being consumed by their bitterness. If any race wants to claim they are natural around me go ahead. Natural to me is a state of mind. It’s about self acceptance. So anyone who is down with self acceptance is welcome in my book. First it was if you colored your hair you couldn’t claim being “natural”, then it was if you used any type of chemicals on your hair you couldn’t claim “natural”. Then that was changed to if you used any texture altering chemicals you weren’t “natural”. Then it was if you wore weave you don’t love yourself. Now it’s if you are not black you can’t claim “natural”. Pretty soon it will be if you are not a certain shade of black you can’t claim “natural”. I see where this is headed. And it’s in the wrong direction. I can still stay true to myself while acknowledging other races who claim to be natural.
+1
What makes this whole scenario so frustrating for me is that a lot of the naturals who are against the exclusivity of the community are reacting with so much rage and disrespect toward those that do not share their opinions.
You cannot say that you believe in an open door policy without being told to check your history books and recognize your culture’s never-ending repression at the hands of white people.
I know my history and I witness and feel the struggle of my people everyday- but that struggle has never been mine IN REGARDS TO MY HAIR. My hair was straightened for the majority of my life because I was never aware that their was an alternative, NOT because I deemed my hair “unacceptable”, nor has anyone else I’ve come across since revealing my true texture (with the exception of the occasional drunk old aunt).
More importantly, my response to being the daughter of a repressed minority is not to barricade myself away with my fellows. That solves nothing and only festers more hate, which the world does not need.
In a nutshell, can people please speak calmly and rationally about this instead of throwing shade? Because we really don’t need more division within the Natural Hair Community.
The point is that just because you have not experienced the struggles yourself, you do not invalidate other people. If enough people are talking about experiencing the same thing, there are studies and articles proving these experiences, and you are truly understanding of your fellow neighbor, you let them rock.
No one believes that you should self-segreagate, which seems to be the concern of a lot of people on here. “spewing more hate” is a false equivalency. Comparing the struggle for one race’s exceedingly obvious struggle to accept their features that are considered ugly by societies all over the world (including ours) to the racism/oppression/hatred that spread that poisonous belief in the first place is disrespectful to your history.
There are cultures and organizations all over the world that cater to their own group. The problem many of us are having is that there are some Black people who do not think that we can or should have anything to celebrate our accomplishments exclusively. There is nothing wrong with having Pride and building positivity in your own ethnicity. It is literally death to any movement or business to let just “anybody” in. This is not shade on non-black people at all. But think about it: Black Hair care is almost a trillion dollar business, but almost no Black people are making major moves in that industry. Our thoughtless integrating is the reason that we have no wealth in our community. Koreans dominate the industry for weaves and wigs, as well as beauty supply stores mom & pop stores. I believe it is the Vietnamese who dominate Nails – and there are 100 shops in a single black neighborhood. The money we as consumers spend does not go to further uplifting our community at all: it is spent on other people’s communities.
Think of it this way: Rebuilding your community, and focusing movements and dollars on that is not being selfish or racist. You have a duty to your fellow man, yes. You should be looking for ways to make sure everyone is able to succeed. But, if there’s only one community (ours) that is significantly behind everyone (It was found that the Black community, pre-Reagan was actually on par in terms of wealth to other communities. We hired black, bought black, and supported Black people because we weren’t really allowed to do anything else. Ironically after integration, we lost most of that “wealth”), it is not bad to work more on building that one up to everybody else’s level (and putting in the work to make sure it stays on par with everyone else’s).
Ignoring that there are disadvantages and obvious institutions in place that affect us the worst is dangerous. Equality is simply helping everyone with the same effort to aim higher. The problem is the Black community is significantly more in need of healing in plenty of areas. Your “equality” is, in actuality creating a larger disparity.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/equality-vs-justice-300×253.jpg[/img]
In case you guys didn’t get the visual:
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/tumblr_mp6tvvLRbX1rn2ucwo1_500.jpg[/img]
I’m assuming that since your comment was directly beneath my own that it was directed at mine- if not please ignore.
I do not argue that there is a need within the Black community for self-promotion and the strengthening of our own people. Or that the Black Americans have experienced so many setbacks within our history that it is a cultural necessity to to work harder to ensure the elevation of the Black community- which is why programs like Affirmative Actions are not reverse racism (which is an argument which I have heard too often from too many people).
What I am saying is as a product of my environment for 20 years, it never would have occurred to me as a natural hair blogger to exclude a white woman if I felt that she had something worthwhile to say about either haircare or hair texture discrimination (similar, but much milder than if I’d as a light skinned black woman to talk about racism- we all get it but to varying degrees).
What I have stressed repeatedly on many of my comments on this and the other article, is
1, It would never occur to me that a white woman would be unwelcome within the community
2, A White woman is welcome to talk to me about hair on an internet platform or otherwise, and I will happily tell her about mine AS WELL as the cultural, social, political, and anthropological weight behind it.
3, The disrespect flung at each other is NOT okay. Just because you disagree with someone does not mean you should revert to name calling and a refusal to at least listen to an alternate understanding. This does not invalidate your experiences- just as yours do not invalidate mine.
Maybe the difference (in my eyes) is this: I will listen to a White Girl about hairstyles and products, and I will empathize about her hating her hair, and yes she is “natural”. But a Black Woman? She gets a secret smile and nod, and “I love your hair!” She gets 45 minute conversations in the hair section of Wal Mart, the checkout line, and the produce section etc. etc. etc. She gets me willing to regurgitate every bit of knowledge I have in the hopes that her journey will be easier than mine and she my pride at seeing her hair. She is Natural.
We have fought to be desegregated yes, you are right. But, we are still being discriminated against on literally all fronts. We’ve let white people integrate into our cultural and daily lives. And what have we gotten in return? An article from Variety saying Elvis created Rock and Roll, Stop and Frisk, and Iggy Azealea/Macklemore being crowned for their unique and amazing achievements in Hip-Hop.
If society has not acknowledged us despite our efforts to be acknowledged, who is really the bigger issue here? These comments are all saying the same thing: We did not exclude Mainstream folks by choice. Things like the natural hair movement are exclusionary by default because nobody wanted to stand beside us or treat us as their equals. WE were forced to group together in a corner to be ignored by everybody or singled out and mistreated- and we still are despite us trying to change things for the better. We’ve been integrating for years, can you explain why nobody has returned the favor with the same fervor we have?
Did you just say that black people self-segregate? As opposed to black people are ignored in mainstream media and culture and therefore have to create spaces for themselves to exist?
Do you even know what segregation is or was? Do you even realise that black people are still segregated based on socio-economic status? Read a history book and stop embarrassing your ancestors with this trash.
“Now, substitute the word black with white in that first sentence and read it again, seriously do it now! Do you realise that we are discussing apartheid? If you believe that the principles of apartheid were racist, then when black people do it, it is also racist.”
Oh…my…goodness…Did JC really just compare this to apartheid???? With all due respect JC, But hell no. This is not the same. No, no, and no. There is a lot of context that you missed in this article. So I really cannot take this seriously. But I will always appreciate you bringing the science into black hair. Thank you 🙂
It is funny how white women don’t whine when they are the only ones being represented when it comes to beauty. When white women start saying that all women should be represented in the media and not just them and non white women whose appearance are closer to white then they can join our movement. Until then they should take their white tears back to white and black men because I am not falling for it.
Good point! They damn sure don’t care!
Maaaaaan, this whole “2000s Natural Hair Movement” is so divisive and time consuming be it the issue being discussed, texture discrimination, Natural nazis, product junkies, etc., I kinda just want everyone to go back to perms so they can all shut up.
Kinda like what white people say. Gang violence, unmarried black mothers, OH MY! I kinda wish we could go back to the slave old days so these black educated buffoons can just shut up.
Lol!
And I kinda just want you to go back to where you came from and have a toilet seat. #GetGone and #BeSeated.
“Natural Nazi’s” Are you fricken kidding me right now?
Ridiculous over the top comments. I can understand that a white woman’s curly haired struggle is nothing like and is not comparable to the crap we have to deal with by having afro hair, I get it. However if one article by or picture of a white woman or one article defending her inclusion fills you with so much rage, what you want is not a “safe space”, its a place to fertilise and nurse your bitterness until it consumes you. Since when does one article by a white woman turn a black natural website into a mainstream site????
Indeed…These reactions speaks of much deeper rooted problem.
Yea, something like, idk, eurocentric beauty standards and systemic/institutionalized racism. Those deep rooted problems. Lolss
Personally people with your reaction are beyond naive!!! If you think that this “one white girl” is the only white person with this attitude, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you for 15 cents! Wasn’t it a white male Alan Bakke who didn’t get into to the University of California medical school that ignited the movement to destroy affirmative action? (he was successful by the way!) And what about Jennifer Gratz, a white female from Michigan who eliminated affirmative action from admissions policies at the University of Michigan, and now diversity on this campus has declined significantly and minority students feel more isolated, misunderstood, and harrassed as ever! Too bad so many of us are so ignorant of our history that we stupidly and blindly dismiss the NEW tactics and offenses of white racism as an “overreaction.” Have a few seats and read a history book, ladies!!!
have you been reading the comments really? because what i took away is that this incident is indicative of a common trend where white people are concerned. that is why the “rage”, as you put it. these are not isolated incidents. if it’s not one thing it is indeed another, where black spaces are undervalued and disrespected. THAT is the point.
All this. For one white girl. Where are all of your tiny violins to accompany all this drama?
I’m from the country that ‘blessed’ mankind with the term and institution of apartheid. I’m currently attending a university that is a bastion of apartheid-dom. We have statues and residence halls commemorating the architects of apartheid. Please mind your words and don’t be so gilb about things you know NOTHING about. Otherwise, keep your factual hair articles coming. That, you are convincing in.
Seriously!!! Why do we Even have to tell Non Black women this is NOT for you. I am Offended there Even asking. Talk about entitlement. It’s not… really?? Let’s use a example
1. The Support Group for Leg Amputee’s will start with opening the floor to new members who would like to introduce themselves. Yes you with 2 uhmm legs??
“Hi I’m Mira & I broke my leg in 3 places 1 year ago & recovery has b-”
Uhmm I’m sorry mira, but I think your in the wrong group. This is for people that have lost 1 or both legs.
“Wowwwww. So my pain means nothing then??? Just cause I didn’t lose the leg then nope nothing happened to me??? Is that what I’m hearing???”
No! Of course your injury was horrible but it’s different than what we have experienced. We made THIS group to help people with THIS trauma. Perhaps you could make up a group of your own if you can’t find one fo-
” How DARE you!! What kind of group are you if your not inclusive!!! You have had leg trauma I have had leg trauma!! That’s all that should matter!!”
HOW DARE YOU Think that having 2 legs is the same as 1 or none!! You do NOT know our PAIN!! GET OUT!!!!!!
…….Now clearly hair isn’t as important as legs however the principal still applies. No white woman understands what it means to be black and the struggle with what WAS & is called NAPPY hair. Did I miss where there parents, friends. relatives. Strangers said that to them???? This is WHY we NEEDED support in the first place. THEY understand NOTHING about what WE call going NATURAL because above all being Natural is tied with being Black IN a White culture. AND if You have been Natural for a while and DON’T get THAT I can only say 0_0?????????
After reading through all of the comments on this issue, I have to say that BlackGirlLongHair has some of the most educated black women on the internet as its audience. That is all.
u read all of the comments, WOW I had to stop and eat supper and take a mental break…
I’ll start off by saying that I do believe that there is a need for exclusivity. I believe that a safe place where black women can discuss their experience is incredibly important and under serviced. Using Apartheid as an example is, in my opinion, incredibly damaging. Every group in existence has a place of exclusivity, whether it be hobbies or culture.
Where I think the article has a point is that all places should allow for a level of learning. The attitude of various people towards natural black hair cannot change without education. The majority of hate-based responses comes from ignorance. If we don’t allow for questions (yes, even perceived stupid and ignorant ones) to be asked then that judgment won’t change.
If non-black parents have a child with natural black hair and they come on a forum such as this to pose questions and learn, I believe that is something to be embraced. How can that child learn to love themselves and their hair if their principle caregivers can’t teach them?
I agree wholeheartedly, and quite frankly, I resent the comparison and the tendency for whites to use terms they created to disfranchise black people against black people! Apartheid?? please have a few seats?! What do they think the natural hair movement is? Reverse discrimination?! This is not some white girl getting turned away from law school because an African-American was admitted supposedly due to “Affirmative Action”! It amazes me that some whites think they can encroach upon any cultural creation of Black people….I’m disgusted…
JC, please stick to what you know–material science, not sociology nor trichology.
Hi ladies,
@JC: Normally I like your articles and blog, because it’s based on science, but this one….WTH were you thinking comparing this to apartheid? You forget a very important aspect, and that is that the natural hair movement / team natural was born out off necessity!
Curly Nikki had responded (to the article on Ebony):
http://www.curlynikki.com/2014/07/curlynikki-responds-to-ebonycom.html
She says she can understand both sides, but I don’t believe her. Sadly, most responses on her reaction are not crtically and only screaming ‘hallelujah, amen and YES:(
I can understand that everyone is not on the same page, but it irritates me that much of the black woman are so fast to defend Sarah and apologize for the backlash she received. Indeed some comments were going to far, but some responses from Sarah (on her FB, twitter and blog) enhances it. She want to make it personal as if she’s getting attacked for being white but doesn’t understand the context and bigger picture.
I know why all the comments are so positive on CurlyNikki, she is deleting negative comments and blocking the commenters. Less than 45 minutes after I wrote the following post, I was deleted and blocked:
CurlyNikki was very helpful to me early in my transition to natural hair, but I don’t think you should give yourself so much credit for making natural hair popular. Its popularity stems from the many women who struggle each day in their various spheres, refusing to conform to a Euro-centric standard of beauty and choosing to share their experiences in this and other forums. Let’s not get it twisted. Kudos on creating this site, and it’s a beauty, but there were other great ones before you, and many women who chose natural hair before any of these spaces even existed.
So I guess the verdict is in. CurlyNikki has completely sold out.
Curly Nikki sold out a long time ago. She is probably the laziest blogger in the natural hair world, constantly featuring guest bloggers and content that has little to do with natural hair. She has yet to use videos for hair tutorials and spends most of her time getting “turned up” abroad. Honestly, I don’t see how her professor husband has a job since he is constantly traveling with her and getting drunk himself, SMH! And yes, she will delete posts that challenge her and her “beehive” will go after anyone who disagrees. I’m glad she is getting controversy now…maybe it will get her back on track!
CurlyNikki (the site) is owned, and to my understanding, operated, by a white run corporation called Textured Media & no longer by Nikki herself because she sold it. I think she’s still just “the face” of the site but doesn’t actually run it. That goes a long way toward explaining the disconnect between her viewpoints & what’s actually happening on the site.
I had no idea she did that..I knew something was up.I use to like her site a lot..not anymore though..it’s quite boring now
Yes she deleted and blocked me as well for criticizing their decision. Since she sold the site to white women, I’m pretty sure it’s not her moderating anymore smh. Glad to have BGLH.
The responses on Nikki’s site are in agreement with her stance because, over time, she deletes the ones that are not.
I live in NYC. I come to sites like this to recover from the contempt the subtle racism, and the rejection I receive each day. All education is not education so please…take not 1 but 4 seats. Sociology teaches us to recognize how ideas, and ways of thinking become institutions. It also seeks to change how we think about issues…don’t be fooled, just because I have changed my way of thinking does not mean others have changed their thoughts about me…so it remains that I need support from those who understand my pain! So I beg you, stop the madness All the education we receive should not destroy our common sense. We are individual AND a collective. My kinks are not your kinks ,we know that, but seen from a distance in the eyes of a racist we are just “knappy headed fill-in-the-blanks”. Whenever I ride the subway I observe over and over again that most young whites will sit with whites unless the train is crowded…I went to buffalo exchange in Brooklyn and I made a purchase, then asked to use the restroom(i am dark skin with natural hair always neatly dressed) I was told no go around the corner to another store, a minute later a white woman asked to use the bathroom, the manager ran right over to open the bathroom for her. I was traumatized by that experience…WHO CAN FEEL MY PAIN???? The collective can!
We can feel your pain because we know your pain…
What is some of this nonsense I’m reading from our fellow black Europeans, painting some rosey picture of life for naturals in Europe lol. You do know that USA and Europe are two sides of the SAME coin? USA is just a little bit more “honest” with their racism. Check both USA’s & Europe’s foreign policies; STILL murdering and exploiting non-whites back home in Africa AND the carribean. Hell, just look at your damn TV, read a newspaper/magazine. They ain’t concerned about you or your hair! No one has ever made derogatory comments about my hair or skin tone (I am Black British), but I am still very much aware of the negativity which exists against black people. This s**t is GLOBAL. Take your heads out of your damn arses. Argh.
“Now, substitute the word black with white in that first sentence and read it again, seriously do it now! Do you realise that we are discussing apartheid? If you believe that the principles of apartheid were racist, then when black people do it, it is also racist.”
I respectfully disagree 1000%. The fact that you’re even comparing the principles and basis of the arpatheid to the those of the NEED for exclusivity in the natural hair movement is extremely misguided at best. Frankly, it’s down-right patronizing, disgusting, and insulting.
Note that I emphasized the word “NEED” above. Whites during the slavery periods in the US and the apartheid era in South Africa respectively, did not lawfully institutionalize segregation and exclusivity because they NEEDED to. They did it because they frickin’ WANTED to. Because they believed that the simple fact they lacked as much melanin as some of us and had straighter hair (even the curlies) inherently made them better. Smarter. More valuable. That it inherently made them more HUMAN.
Black women created this movement because we NEEDED to. Because we have been marginalized by everyone else more than any other group on this planet for the longest time, simply for being who we are and looking the way we do. This movement was created because we are not accepted (and hardly, if at all even tolerated) in the mainstream. And we NEED this movement to remain exclusive to us because:
1) It was created FOR us and BY us. I don’t see why it would be considered wrong for you to build your house and decorate it to your liking with your own resources and refuse to allow someone else to come live in said house simply because they have the same taste in architecture and interior decor. Especially if they have a house of their own.
2) When allowed inclusion on even a moderately large scale, whites have a history of taking over/colonizing the movements and creations of others (esp Blacks), placing their faces all over and re-packaging said creations and promoting them as their own original works, and then they always end up pushing Blacks out altogether once they’ve saturated it. Don’t believe me? Look at ANY Black creation that had gone mainstream. A lot of Blacks themselves don’t know/believe that Rock and Roll and Jazz were invented by and for Black people.
You and some other Black women are quick to fight for/defend the inclusion of Whites into something we HAD to create BECAUSE they have and continue to exclude us (and you, too). So let me ask you this, and I sincerely hope you reply.
QUESTION: When was the last time you read about any white woman or any group of white women petitioning to Cosmo or MarieClaire or Vogue (or any popular magazine that caters to White women) to be more inclusive of Black women in their magazines and online spaces?
I’ll wait here for your reply sipping on my cup of Kermit tea since that’s what everyone seems to be drinking now, lol.
I’ll be honest, the fact that you are a Black woman and you hold these views and beliefs makes me incredibly uncomfortable.
I think you are looking at the self-love aspect from a pretty self-centered and limited vantage point. I understand completely that not everyone had to embrace their hair and that going natural was not pivotal in a journey to self-love and self-acceptance for all Black women. However, for an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Black women, it was/is. And not just for Black women in the US.
My sisters (and brother) and I were also told we were beautiful and smart and valuable by our parents and others growing up, and we are all confident young adults now. However, that does not discount the undeniable truth that largely, natural hair, especially kinky hair, and dark skin, are still seen as unacceptable, even by other Africans (from all over the continent because I’ve lived in and traveled to Ethiopia, Cameroon, Nigeria, South Africa, and Ivory Coast, among others).
I’m not here to change your opinion, but I sincerely hope you reconsider your argument and justifications of it and look at the much bigger picture here (not just YOUR experience with natural hair).
Lastly, I just have to repeat myself and say that the apartheid and its foundation is NOT (in ANY way, shape, or form) similar or like the need for exclusivity to Blacks (all across the diaspora) in the natural hair movement. I pray you never repeat/retype this blatantly false statement anywhere else, ever again.
It is truly a new day. I’m so happy to see black women, particularly African-American black women, put down some boundaries from outsiders appropriating our spaces. Enough is enough! This preoccupation of being seen as “fair” and not “jealous” hasn’t gotten black women very far historically. That’s why I wasn’t surprised by the white woman who was featured in CN being “shocked” and “hurt” by the backlash. I’m not surprised by the black women caping to her defense to show they are not “angry” or “jealous”. They are the “fair” and “reasonable” type of black women. People are so use to helping themselves to black women’s resources, that’s why people are so shocked by the resistance. Oh well. Just have to get use it.
We don’t owe white women a damn thing. This article is filled with bullshit! Black people stop coming with your torches to defend white people. You look silly as hell because they have never and will never do the same for you. Worry about uplifting your people because we have plenty of issues of our own.
Seriously, because someone says “hey, other people have struggles” that means that you “owe” them something?
It’s not about “defending” white people, but about recognizing that it’s hypocritical to demand that people view you as an individual and respect your struggle while you refuse to give them the same respect.
It’s more than hypocritical, actually. It’s straight out ignorant.
I can tell you now that I don’t give two shits about Sarah’s struggle point blank period. The only reason white women want to be included in the natural hair movement is because they want everything to revolve around them? What about me? They can’t stand when they aren’t the center of attention. If you would open your eyes you would see that Sarah is doing this for shits and giggles. We let everyone into our culture and then guess what they start making profits off of it. I could go on and on. Wake up! seriously white women are not coming in droves to defend you.
We have texture discrimination in the natural hair community, but white women need to be included. They can watch from the side lines because they have more than enough outlets for them. Now you say we are doing the same to them, nope we aren’t they have enough outlets for their “struggles” they can go there. They shouldn’t be getting sympathy from any black person. I hope all of these ne blacks cape this hard for their own people.
I defend the right of the KKK to march down the street in my town because in America we have freedom of speech. When I tell the KKK that their speech is not protected because I don’t like it, I make it easier for people to take away my right to free speech because I don’t like it.
When you come on here and spew hatred and insults about an entire group of people, you make it easier for them to justify doing the same to you.
Again, there is a difference between recognizing that white women often feel that the don’t live up to the impossible beauty standards set by the entertainment industry and feeling that you “owe” them something.
As a person with kinky hair with no real curl pattern, I used to a bit put out when a woman with 3b ringlets would come on the websites talking about her struggle to go natural when it really just meant not flat-ironing her hair anymore. However, I had to recognize that there were actual problems that these women faced and having not lived their lives, it was ignorant and ridiculous of me to belittle their experiences.
A white woman of my acquaintance likened her curly hair to mine one day. I told her that I understood that it was time consuming for her and that growing up people made fun of her so that now she spends more than two hours everyday blowing out her hair and then flat-ironing after years of teasing. I sat in a room with several friends of hers as they ragged on her about her hair just before she had the chance to go in and straighten it. I also saw how much money she spent to have products shipped to the small African country where we were living because she was scared of what people might say if they say her non-straightened hair.
I also explained to her that there were still massive differences in the way that my natural or straightened hair is viewed by society at large. If I am natural, I am trying to make a statement. If a straighten, I want to be white. Having that conversation did help her to understand the ways in which our experiences, though alike on the surface where quite different on a deeper level. It led to her calling someone out one day for making a comment about my natural hair (white person wondering why I didn’t just straighten my hair like all other black women).
Or I guess I could have gone the “shut up you stupid white bitch” route which you seem to favor.
So you’re implying that: 1.) spewing displeasure about somebody invading an exclusive space and patronizing us (she said herself she was just looking to start controversy (screenshots can be provided) is “hatred”. 2.)The “hatred” of number one is the same thing (as you said yourself) as the hatred of the KKK, a hate group with a history of murdering and torturing Black people?
Now, Free Speech is your God given right as an American. What you (and a lot of people, for some odd reason) forget that Free Speech allows you to say whatever you want without fear of imprisonment,mental, or physical harm of any kind being done to you (this part is important) BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Again : your 1st amendment right simply means your government will not to kill you or throw you away in a jail cell to rot because of the things you say. It does not mean your words will not get you fired, get you dumped/divorced, nor does it mean that free speech trumps FACTS. Also, Hate Speech is not protected under the First Amendment, so you’re point is irrelevant.
Nobody here is being disrespectful or calling anyone names, nor are they saying that there is no valuable information here for non-black women.
What they are saying, however, is that they cannot and will not become the face of our movement. They are not allowed to equate our struggles to theirs, because they aren’t alike. Nobody hates white people, we’re just saying we are the focus of the movement (which has always been the case).
I forgot to add that black people give their entitled asses respect on the daily and demean their own people to do so. Black people are not oppressing sarah’s ass. She can have a damn sit and so can the new blacks. #nokumbayashit!!!!!!!!
I also wanted to say that the last article did say there is a place for multiethnic and multicultural sites that serve us all but we still need a place where we can uplift one another. It’s not literally about #teamnatural but about a movement from a group of women who has been globally affected by a certain beauty standard. It’s a movement that is needed because mothers on the continent of Africa did not know how to care for their child’s natural tresses and relaxed them at an early age. Black women globally did not know how to manage their natural hair, so sites like these were created to share knowledge and uplift one another because of the lingering stigma amongst our own Black community. I was recently the main topic of a group of women who had a problem with my fro. That hurt me so much and tells me we still have a ways to go with this movement because there are many women in my own race who haven’t accepted my hair as it is, so I know good and well they haven’t accepted their own. That is the need for exclusivity. I just don’t have, in my own experience white people not wanting curls considering they used to perm their hair to get curly hair. I don’t see the struggle. Curls, from my POV was never frowned upon but was actually embraced among the white community I knew as an outsider growing up.
Did Sarah(the white ‘natural’) big chop or transition? I am all for inclusion but not for this one. If you simplify this issue to just a hair issue, you are simplifying the problem of racism and degradation which black women have and still are facing. Accepting natural hair is rejecting a culture which preached that we are not beautiful and we should change to conform to their standard. Now we are at a cross road and rejecting that standard. But yet the ‘standard’ is claiming to have the same struggle. We can’t find enough representation in mainstream. Imagine then if we were to ‘include’ white ladies. What will happen to the 4b/c girl. She will once again be watered down and be inadequately represented. Check yourself of this one JC. You are wrong.
SJP Sara Jessica Parker, Saved by the Bell’s Elizabeth Berkley, Keri Russell, Nicole Kidman was curly at one time just to name a few celebs rocking curly hair and being praised for it.
Sooo, when I was in elementary school …born in 81’… my classes were 90-95% white and the girls wanted curls. Does anyone out there remember the perms? Not what we called perms but perms for straight haired women desiring curls. The white girls in my class would get they’re hair chemically treated to BE CURLY! I can remember the smell of a fresh perm now. Different from relaxers but just as potent! Ugh! Sooo, this article is IRRELEVANT. They can’t relate to the struggle. Sorry.
Just stick to science JC.
After reading your article ,I think you should stay far far away from social commentary.
I cannot believe JC wrote this trash?
Well yes! Jc thanks a lot, really you are too kind! I appreciate it!! You made me open my eyes and I see that the struggle that black people have will NEVER end. Main stream society will never accept us. We are kept out because of how we look, act everything. So we tried to make a space so we can fit in, just a little space and all you could do, this lovely Thursday morning is get up and annoy an ENTIRE website. Really! Now we are struggling to keep the original intent bglh was started for. Black Girl Long Hair is the name of this site. This is OUR space. Why guilt us to share this space.
Any one can read the posts here, that is the wonderful world of the Internet. However the posts are geared to Black people. How did that become wrong? Am I not worth it? Why must you call me racist for wanting my OWN space! That is not fair Jc. You are wrong on this one, and there is nothing that you can say to explain this “article”
A lot of you sound sadly ridiculous. I had no idea so many women take this natural hair thing so deep. I have natural hair, because I prefer HEALTHY hair and chemicals in my hair just do not work for me. My being natural has nothing to do with self-love/hate, embracing this or that, or showing white America anything. Lol I can’t believe some of the things you people are saying. Wow.
I totally agree with this post…natural hair is NOT just for black women. Sorry. NATURAL means just that…rocking your hair in it’s natural state, free of any damaging chemicals. At least that’s what it means for ME. Those of you who are seriously trying to make being natural a race thing, need to dig deep and reevaluate your lives. Black women are not the only women with curly, kinky, coily, or thick hair. Biracial women may share some or all of these hair characteristics. I’ve known some white women who also share some of these same characteristics. So, get a grip. I thought these blogs and forums were here to help and educate people on being natural, share ideas, give advice, and share our experiences…period. I did not know this was a “black girls only club”. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds??? And I get so sick of some of you “pointing out” that “America” has always “said” or implied that black hair is not beautiful…look, let the slavery sh*t go. It happened. It’s over with. And even if black women were made to feel or believe that our natural is not beautiful…let’s be real, for a LONG time we did not know how to care for our hair in it’s natural state and find the beauty in it. Our hair is thick and demanding, and if you just let it sit on top of your head and do not know how to care for it, it’s NOT beautiful. That’s not a race thing…that’s reality. Anybody, I do not care what your race is…if your hair is just a mess, because you don’t care for it…no one is going to tell you that mess is beautiful. Be real and stop trying to make everything about race.
I am black and native american, and I AM NATURAL. Just as natural as a woman who is ALL black or a woman who is black and white. I think you women who have issues with accepting others and want to make being natural a race thing, really have issues within yourselves. Take a look in the mirror. Ask yourself why does it bother you so much if the next woman wants to claim team natural, no matter the color of her skin. When you can give yourself a honest answer, you have found the real root of your animosity. Grow up.
Wanna know something funny? I work in a field where I’ve come into contact with many Native Americans that still have a deep-rooted issues regarding colonialism. Would you tell them to “let that sh*t go”? That’s some insensitive b.s. and down right disrespectful. You think Jewish people have let go of the Holocaust? Please. I’m glad you are so above it all. Shout outs to you! In the mean time instead of talking nonsense on the surface level how about you actually try to understand where people are coming from.
Obviously natural hair can pertain to anyone. The point is that this particular natural movement pertains to us. If you don’t feel it does that is fine but a lot of us clearly do. And since we have been divided enough I think it’s empowering to see us come together on something we obviously feel strongly about. White women can have their own natural movement transitioning from buns to wearing their hair down. I’d support them at a distance but I wouldn’t go butting in because it’s not my struggle.
The only ridiculous sound person here is you and the rest of the Black/biracial folks who “don’t see race”, yet stand to be the most mistreated by employers/media/police forces. And considering you’re also Native American….I would think you would be at least a little more “aware” of just how race factors into a person’s treatment in America. Oh well.
You are invalidating the experiences of the majority by trying to use your own to write everybody off as bitter/petty. Since you said “slavery happened” and we should let it go and stop bringing it up, you realize that before your parents, your grandparents were born to people who were recently freed or sharecroppers right? If you had just so happened to have been ONLY two generations ago, you would have been in a society that had not had the Civil Rights Movement. If you just so happened to have been ONLY three generations prior, you would have been either a slave very close to the abolition of slavery.
Slavery happened, yeah, but you think it’s just coincidence that the Jim Crow laws mirrored the attitudes about Black people word for word? You act like the people born believing Black folks were stupid/ugly during slavery or the Jim Crow era suddenly just changed their minds and turned a new leaf after both of these events ended. If the stereotypes from Slavery managed to make it all the way to the folks that created Jim Crow Laws, how the hell do you think those same ideas didn’t make it to 2014?
And I’m assuming you don’t know you’re history, or you’re one of those “new blacks” who don’t see race. The Natural Hair movement because nobody thought Black women or men were beautiful. Biracial people, like you, were considered just as Black as a child from a two-Black parent household. Plenty of black women have the texture of non-black women with curly hair, don’t be dense. But did them having the same texture somehow suddenly mean they could sit with the white folks with hair like theirs or enjoy the same luxuries white people did? Black people were perming their hair by the time Jim Crow rolled around, and had hair just as straight as a lot of white people….and they obviously weren’t treated any better. Doesn’t it seem odd that Black people can have straight or curly or kinky hair like non-black people are able to, but are the ONLY ones who manage to get dragged/devalued by EVERYONE for it?
You really must be dense. You really thought Black women just walked around looking a hot mess until the hot comb and perms were created, huh?
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Good day to you.
People. Are. Crazy…. Racism, exclusivity, and all that jazz is not okay no matter what – nor is it okay from either side. We go natural and are proud of it to SUPPORT DIVERSITY, not to create another avenue for racism or exclusion. SMDH at the ignorance in all of this. The article made extremely valid points and was created to make us think… NOT act a damn fool lol.
Yep, Jc was unafraid to discuss the other side of the coin. I admire that.
Playing devil’s advocate on this particular topic makes her very brave; wrong…but brave
Agreed.
I’m not surprised that the vast majority of comments are negative. I don’t agree with most of the negative comments, and a lot of the comments make me sigh and shake my head (and yes, I’m a black woman with natural kinky coily hair), but I’m not surprised the comments exist.
Yes, I do think the apartheid comparison is a bit much. But I do understand where the article author’s coming from.
Is this really what “the natural hair community” is about? Exclusivity? Ignoring the fact that some white women have indeed gotten relaxers to “tame” their curly frizzy hair? (Shocking, yeah I know, but true!) Or that some white women with very curly hair straighten it because they’ve been told all their lives that “poodle hair is ugly”? Do all the pro-“blacks only” commenters exclude 3C black women from natural hair groups? What about woman of mixed races? If their natural hair isn’t kinky enough (or at all), or they have natural “white girl” ringlets instead of kinks, are they automatically excluded — ignoring all the negative crap some of them put up with from both white and black people? Is their “journey” deemed less worthy than others?
Are y’all freakin’ kidding me?
Sure, I kinda understand some of the resentment: why should black women be inclusive when we’ve historically been excluded ourselves? But this is becoming an ugly “2 wrongs don’t make a right” situation…
On one hand, there are plenty of groups and forums out there that aren’t so exclusive, where all races are able to participate (though sometimes they’re hit with negative comments, which I find sad). It’s not like the more narrow-membership groups are the only option out there.
On the other hand, maybe those kinds of natural hair groups need to redefine their acceptance criteria to state the exact hair type(s) allowed for membership. Instead of saying “no white women allowed,” why not say “no ringlets, loose curls, waves, 3b or lower (or whatever) allowed”? Then these groups can more narrowly target their audience/membership, and it becomes more about hair type/texture/kinkiness than race. Hmm.
But hey, what do I know? My hair is not a political statement. It’s just my hair. My hair that I’ve embraced while ignoring any haters. And it’s beautiful hair. So is hair that’s kinkier than mine, or more loosely coily or curly than mine. I honestly don’t know the struggle of 4c women, because I don’t have a head full of 4c hair. I have mostly 4a hair. That won’t stop me from listening to 4c women talk about their hair, or telling 4c women how gorgeous their hair is and how they shouldn’t envy my hair because it’s got its own host of problems. I’d rather hear from people with various hair types (even white women!) than focus on folks with my hair type all the time. But that’s just me.
Also, I’m sorry but I have to correct some commenters’ assumption that all white women have sleek smooth hair. Some curly-haired white women don’t have the “elegant” curly hair that white celebrities often have. Some white women have VERY frizzy curly hair, and sometimes the frizz isn’t simply a dryness issue. Again, I know some white women who’ve had relaxers, for cryin’ out loud. Have folks not seen all the anti-frizz, anti-“bird’s nest,” must-have sleekness type advertisements aimed at white women over the years? Have you noticed how many products out there target smooth, sleek, 100% controlled curly ringlets or waves? Do you really think all white women have that socially “ideal” kind of hair naturally? Do you believe flat irons are only marketed to black people? If you do, you’re wrong.
Some white and mixed women could tell you guys all about that, if you’d let them.
And I’ll stop rambling about this now.
Thank you for stopping.
UHAHAJJHAVJHVHGV! I’m tired of people boohooing that the people who oppose the viewpoint presented in this article are trying to exclude “mixed” people or Black people with loose hair. I believe the general consensus of the opposition to this article is that ANY women who can claim ties to the African diaspora are welcome in the NHM, so stop warping the issue. Furthermore, nobody has a problem with White women listening and learning from our spaces–we just don’t feel they need representation because they have sole representation from so many other platforms. Why the hell can’t we have our own platforms? And if every space is supposed to be integrated, why aren’t any of you Toms knocking down Cosmopolitan’s or Vogue’s door? And don’t give me that two wrongs don’t make a right bull. As other commenters have said, we tried that with music, and look where that has gotten us? Most mainstream rap music isn’t even rap anymore; just repetitive beats and stereotypical themes. And don’t even get me started on how White people supposedly invented rock. Did you know Miley Cyrus invented twerking?
To be honest, I don’t give a damn about hashtags. I’m not on Twitter, and I know how free speech works (generally, against the wishes of black and brown people, but I digress). But that’s not really what this debate is about. What matters to me is that our style icons (should we ever get them back) and features remain Black. Why? Because this site is one the first places where I felt that I am not ugly. Some of you had great support systems growing up. I didn’t. I grew up in the Midwest, and I was one of 3 Black girls in my class until I hit high school–then there were maybe 4 others out of 360 students. I know I’m not alone in this.
Yeah, there are frizzy-haired white women who benefit from our techniques and products; I’ve introduced one of my good White* friends with “3A/C” curls to them, and her hair has never looked better. But they can be featured in their own spaces or create their own and that’s fine.
If we allow full representation of White women here, I can hazard a decent guess of what will happen. Euro women will most likely be respectful and stick to hair products and techniques, but American women? They will most likely be the death of our culture articles. I’ve only met a few White American women in my life that I can have frank cultural discussions with. The rest don’t want to hear about it, and they will try to invalidate our experiences with their own, much like some African women seem to be doing here. If you try to discuss racism at all? Pfft. It will always be because of something we did or are not doing; they will turn a blind eye to systemic inequalities. One of my good friends graduated with a degree in sociology, and she’s STILL guilty of this, so don’t say it’s because they’re uneducated and we have to teach them. They just don’t want to acknowledge what’s right in front of them, and that could be potentially damaging to us–we Americans have to deal with that on the daily enough.
The bottom line is this: Most of us aren’t opposed to including White women in the NHM because we hate them. That’s oversimplifying the issue. We’re mostly opposed because generally, when you include White people in a primarily PoC movement, they appropriate it and destroy the original intent of the movement. I love the natural hair community, and I really don’t want to see history to repeat itself yet again.
* My friend’s family is historically from Barbados, so I have some doubts to how “White” she actually is (Probably a 5 percenter, but still). Whiteness is a social construct, much like Blackness.
Very well put. I was absolutely appalled reading most of these comments. I can’t believe all of the anger and hatred behind some of these women’s words…it’s astonishing, sad, but yet comical. How could anyone be so freaking upset about HAIR?! Lol. It’s obvious to me their anger is really somewhere else. I just cannot picture myself saying to anyone “oh, you can’t join our club, because you’re not black enough and your hair is not nappy enough…sorry”. Pure stupidity.
“How could anyone be so freaking upset about HAIR?!”
And there it is. You clearly don’t understand that for many, it is MORE THAN JUST HAIR. Did you know that there was a tobacco product in the US called “Ni**** Hair?”
http://www.stonegateantiques.net/items/590007/item590007store.html
So before you go on about how its just hair, you and everyone else that says that need to take a look into history and see how black hair was constantly vilified.
Bye Felicia.
I understand what you’re trying to say. I understand what Jc is trying to say. It doesn’t change my mind. There are indeed some white women who struggle with hair that isn’t the ideal & my heart bleeds for them (they should try dealing with that struggle hair while also being black) & I’m sure they want a forum where they can commiserate with folks in their boat who know that it’s real in these frizzy streets; those folks just happen to not be us! We can understand their struggle but they can’t understand ours which means this just ain’t that. It’s not exclusion just because it’s not inclusion…
I really do get it that we could help others & we should share our experiences & knowledge & get warm fuzzies by being kumbaya with all ethnicities who don’t happen to have straight hair. In a perfect world where our hair was just hair & didn’t cause us to get all up in our feelings, we might could do that but the very fact that those other ethnicities don’t even GET that we are emotionally extravagant about our kinks, curls & coils just further lets me know that we not there yet.
#fixitJesus #Henotdonewithusyet
oh and by the way here in Germany, TV ads, H&M, C&A , AWG and lots others have blacks with natural hair no straight hair.
Same in United States… Your point?
As an African living in America I totally get the need for exclusivity and I’m not here for this obtuseness. I can walk down 125th street right now and a slew of my people will chase me down because my hair isn’t “done”. Spare us. We are coming along but we are far from being removed from this issue. Globally black women need each other and we need to support each other. If you don’t get it then take some time to understand it.
Well said gal. Couldnt have said it better. Often when i read topics like the one ou are responding to i always think what kind of world is America, honestly im curious because what is projected in these articles is deep touching but appalling sometimes. I wish i could understand how human beings can be so emotional to the point of hating others so because of hair. I really want to understand because i do not get it at all.Growing up in Africa we never bothererd about hair, in fact most ordinary families like mine still are not. Girls get their hair cut short so it’s easy to manage during school days and that is not an issue at all and does not affect their self image. I personally only started growing my hair at age 26 after keeping it short or raser shaved. I live in Germany now where there are not as many blacks as in America but no one and i mean no one has ever said to me can i touch your hair, but i do get random your hair is nice and so full. I do not get stares or anything of that sort. When i came here i felt and still feel i am accepted for who i am rather than how my hair looks, how light or dark i look. No i feel accepted as a person based on my personality. SO my point is i find it very difficult to relate to people who promote segregation especially for HAIR, really.
BTW i have never known how my hair looks when straight, or my mother’s or my grandmother’s.
Please, just STOP with all that #bullshit. I’m getting really tired of some of you African girls claiming to be clueless about the significance of natural hair and what embracing it means worldwide. And please, for the love of everything green, SPECIFY which COUNTRY in Africa you are from. You’re only encouraging the ignoramuses (who, in my experience, are mostly White Americans) who really think Africa is some homogenous village in the middle of the Earth to continue thinking that way when you make that generalization.
And before I go any further, I am Cameroonian (West-Central African) and have also lived in Ethiopia (East Africa) for a large portion of my life. I have also lived in the States (Kansas, MidWest) for a number of years, so I have personal insight on both sides.
Natural (mostly Kinky/type 4) hair, especially loose hair, is generally seen as unacceptable and unprofessional in both countries (Cameroon and Ethiopia), as well as Nigeria, South Africa, and Ivory Coast, among others. These are all countries I’ve been to, and I’ve witnessed the same response, so I’m not just pulling ish out of thin air.
With the number of women who wear weaves and relax their hair in these countries, I’m surprised you don’t see the significance. Look beyond your immediate family and have some awareness of the situation on a large-scale.
You say “girls get their hair cut short so it’s easy to manage…”
Emphasis on the word “MANAGE”. Why do you think, that in countries FULL of people with highly textured hair, the general consensus is that our hair is UNmanageable by default, and only manageable/acceptable at very short lengths? I had to shave my head for seven consecutive years in boarding school, so I know what I’m talking about.
I also forgot (in my irritation at the SHEER obtuseness Kitso and a few others like her are exhibiting) to add:
Look through ANY of the uncountable Nollywood (Nigerian) and Ghanaian movies and TV series (especially those of you who are subscribed to DStv) and tell me HOW MANY of the women you see are wearing their natural hair at ANY length. Go on, tell me. By all means, scour YouTube if you need to. There are plenty of uploads there as well.
So many of the weaves and wigs you see these women wearing have to be the most raggedy-looking, unprofessional, and down-right horrendous accessories you will ever see in your life. But somehow, in all their raggedy, rat’s nest-y glory, they are STILL deemed more acceptable than what naturally grows out of these women’s scalps (by both women and men).
And yet you have people on here, boldly and arrogantly claiming that this is just “an African American mindset/issue” and “thanking God they were born in a Black majority country”. #Smdh. Black privilege at its finest.
In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever shaken my head and sighed this much in my entire life. The ignorance is beyond appalling. And believe it or not, it’s ALWAYS the Africans who always claim to be so educated and refined that NEVER see how much we (both as a continent and at the level of our respective countries) are still very much drenched in and attached to destructive colonial mindsets and their standards. We may be “officially” independent, but don’t for one second think that we are anywhere close to being mentally independent. You think only Blacks in America are battling the legacy of slavery and the deeply ingrained mind-f**k it has caused? You may not constantly be surrounded by White people everyday of your life in Africa (and thank your stars that you enjoy that privilege in life), but you are far from being removed from the effects of colonialism, and whether you would like to admit it or not, have been mind-f**ked from it and its legacy as well. Honestly, I’m really sick of some Africans who act like they are inherently better by virtue of being “just” African, and readily buy into the bogus stereotypes of African Americans, but will go all up in arms if an African American stereotyped them as having AIDS or having a starving baby with kwashiorkor. As if the very slaves who were brought to America in the first place were different from you. Again, smdh.
I wish I could thumbs up your comment a million times. The ignorance from most of my African sisters on this blog is amazing. I am Nigerian and natural hair for anybody out of secondary school is seen as ugly (except you go to some weird church where relaxers are forbidden). If the AA’s hadn’t made natural hair attractive today and showed us the options we can have we would still be relaxing our hair.
Girl, abeg, don’t even get me started on some of these White-washed Africans, happily running around and embarrassing their ancestors and the rest of us who can actually think for ourselves. Smh.
Straight-up self-hate, willful ignorance, and raw denial flows through their veins, and the saddest part is that they can’t (and refuse to) see, acknowledge, or accept it.
Most never even stop to ask themselves why the general mind-set here is that a “yellow” (read light-skinned) woman “deserves” a higher bride-price than a dark-skinned woman. Never mind that the majority of us, are in fact, dark-skinned. So many just think this nonsense is NORMAL. Don’t even get me started on some of the men and their self-hating and sexist bullshit!
Chai, abeg, make ah go sleep. I’m not trying to get riled up again, lol.
God bless you for this. I want to slap the taste out of the mouths of our fellow Africans that pretend these issues do not exist at home so they can pretend to be superior to others in the diaspora.
I have to disagree there. I’ve lived in more than 15 countries in Africa and in every one the majority of women were rocking long silky weaves or had their hair chemically straightened. It was so rare for me to to see the short cut or natural hair look on a woman that it always caught my attention.
Women with weaves and perms who knew me would definitely compliment my beautiful natural hair and tell me that I looked like a “real” African beauty with my twists, afro, or twistouts.
But if I went to say, the airport, the women would take the opportunity to poke at my hair and to ask my why I just left it like that instead of making it look nice like other black women. From South Sudan to Kenya to Togo to Angola to Cameroon and beyond, I saw the same things and heard the same comments. I would say that only places where it wasn’t as much of an issue was in Ghana and South Africa.
Kitso, it’s not just about hair. Read the pro-exclusive comments and it has been explained over and over again. This is a self identity crisis among many Black women. This is about a group of Black women globally accepting what was deemed unattractive. Curls were always considered attractive. Please look deeper into the reason why most Black women all over this world were relaxing and then now the boom of the natural hair movement.
how is hair any different than skin. you act like its so unimportant and in a perfect world it would be, but in the real world things like skin color and hair matter. i would expect you of all people to know that…
When a white person wants to really bully or tease a white curly about her hair they tell her she has an “AFRO”! “YOU GOT NEGRO HAIR” “IS THAT A JHERRI CURL?” All references to having “the worst hair”, black natural hair! Spare me the nonsense about white curlies being teased because they have 3b ringlets; so they can relate to our black plight for acceptance of what we’re born with? Its not the curly cues and spirals they’re ashamed of, its the implications of having any relations to negro hair. Now that we’ve settled into a state of our own acceptance they want the keys to the city. No boo boo, my kinks aint your curls. When a stranger sits behind you and whispers “she needs to do something with them napps” whilst flipping her 26inch remy, come see me.When your boss tells you you’re up for a promotion but your twist are “holding you back”, come check for me. When your hair is called nappy, ugly, dirty and unkempt because you “need a perm” knock on my door. Until then have some respect for yourself and be seated.
Exactly!
Me likey this! You summed up all 242 & counting comments in a nice, neat, little paragraph & I am here for it!
i know right! I wanted to read all of them but some of these comments are like their own blogs. That was eveything that needed to be said. No more, no less.
One thing “black” american women should learn or practice is to focus on themselves without apologizing. They should question why it is their responsiblity / job to teach non-blacks and adult males about “natural hair.” I am so tired of black women having to do the teach and inform because more often than not it is the same power dynamics at play.
If you are a non-black and /or male and are interested in learning about natural hair…there are many resources available today regarding the matter. If you want to reflect on your awakening or enlightenment please start a blog about it or upload some videos abut the subject. These person would certainly be a part of the movement but they would not be the center and certainly would not expect black women to teach them.
Totally agree with you JC. I personally found the other article to be ridiculous. And I’m so tired of hearing about mainstream media being the cause of us not accepting our selves. Corporation are in the business of making money so they give the people what they want. And what we wanted was straight hair and weaves. Now that we as consumers are demanding natural hair products that is what we’re seeing in the market no one is trying to take over our industry it’s business as usual.
And to say that there are no natural black women on television because of white people is stupid all you have to do is look at a black music video or a movie produced or directed by a black person to see who they choose to cast in it. That is our idea of beauty. These are the magazines we reach for in the supermarket. Until we move past this blame the white man thing and accept that we have a problem in our own community and we need that fix it for the next generation then we will never get anywhere. Yes I know the sense of inferiority stems from slavery but the relaxer was invented by a black woman. Master was not the one straightening our hair.
And while I’m getting things off my chest let’s be honest with ourselves I sincerely doubt that more than 30% of all the people in this natural hair movement started or are a part of it because of some spiritual awakening or self acceptance. We’ve been here before in the 60’s and 70’s and as soon as the jeri curl became the in they jumped on that band wagon. The same thing is happening now being natural is the in thing so they’re natural.
Take it down a notch. Putting this much energy into being angry about who # a phrase is crazy. If you want to teach self love and acceptance the place where it will have the most impact is our homes. We teach our children (nieces cousins etc.) both the boys and the girls that we are beautiful in every shade and hair texture. And we lead by example.
*clapclapclap*
I am a bit tired of hearing about how white culture is repressing us and causing us to hate ourselves and that the natural hair movement is us overturning that hatred.
Any shade thrown my way regarding my Blackness has come from the Black community (you’re too light skinned, you got that good hair, you don’t act black etc. etc. etc.) and my going natural was about me realizing that I had no understanding of my true texture and wanting to learn more about myself.
Society can hate you but it can’t make you hate yourself.
Also, people keep talking about how society rejected us and now wants in. That is not how a society grows.
Also @AnaDion, considering we’ve been hating ourselves (because if somebody treats you like crap enough, you tend to believe you deserve it. That’s Psych 101, come on now) through most of Slavery, Reconstruction, Segregation, Jim Crow/Civil Rights , and present day….I’d say we are not going to stop having self-hate issues overnight. But the natural hair movement is an attempt to fix that within our community, which is why the focus should be us. the Black, African community NEEDS to address this issue themselves.
Besides, at least Black folks say it to you. White society does not have to, they just ignore you (and most of us) flat out unless you do something “ratchet” or commit a crime, then they go ham on you in the comment sections.
I actually agree with about 95% of what you just said.
Anti-Black sentiment started with White people but was carried within the Black community and is something that now has to be fixed internally. And, I’ll admit that the “get over sentiment” is neither realistic nor sensitive.
However, as we’ve agreed that it is something that needs to be fixed within ourselves, it does not seem viable to continue to label White People the problem. The source, perhaps, but at some point we have to stop giving others the power to create hate within ourselves. That’s the natural hair movement- an assertion that we will not allow the world at large to decide what is acceptable for our hair.
I don’t know if the comment section of any internet forum is the best representative of any group. They are notoriously filled with haters and agitators (that isn’t intended to reflect on the comment section here btw) and to say that White People turn on us the moment we’re on the news via the comments is unfair. A vocal minority is louder than a silent majority.
What I’ve noticed more is that white people will forget. They’ll glaze over your race, see the coloring but forget the origins, the past and the culture behind it.
What inbred wrote this? This is SO STUPID! White chicks can never ever be part of the natural hair movement EVER. The natural hair movement is especially made to contradict eurocentric standards of beauty, how can white girls be part of a movement that is against them? Does that even make sense? What the actual hell is wrong with BGLH why did they even post this up? AND DID YOU SERIOUSLY JUST REFERENCE APARTHEID IN SUCH A WHACK WAY?
White women need to go to hell with that mess, How dare they even post this bull up?As far as I’m concerned CN is useless bitch as they come and is just a sell out of the worst kind.
As for the beautiful women of African heritage we shall keep making this our own, with no interruptions from whitey. IF they want to view us as “racist” then oh well, then I guess I’m the black Archie Bunker up in this B!
What kind of annoys me about rebuttal posts like this is that you don’t know what you’re talking about, nor do you try to.
-They’re a money business, but I honestly don’t think you understands what that really means. They do not give the consumer what they want: In the case of Black media, it’s actually the opposite. Black television/magazines (and hair companies) are white-owned, usually. On the topic of Black Hair care, about 80% of these niche market companies are white-owned, 20% are owned and operated by us.
-A lot of the positive things we want to see, would pay for, do not happen. Is it a result of “what we want to see?” Not at all. A recent example: have you noticed the Boondocks has been a little less “conscious” lately? It was supposed to end after the 3rd season, because Aaron McGruder decided he would not write for the show anymore. The reason? Higher ups felt it was too afrocentric and wanted to head in a different direction that was more “safe” to market to other groups.
It was decided that the show was still a profitable venture without him, and new writers took over. Hollywood, Black or White, is indeed a money game. What that ACTUALLY means is that, whether the consumer wants to see new POC faces or not, they will always go to the familiar sect of black actors/actresses because they’re well-known (they’ve all been in almost all of the Black movies since many of us were young), have been in the industry long enough where they may be recognized by non-black/African consumers. New faces cost money, and it’s been proven that most white people honestly just aren’t interested in seeing us in movies. There is proven displeasure to see us as is – except for comedy and sports (seriously). There’s also the fact that not many Black people have actual stock in Hollywood.
Tyler Perry puts out garbage, but he (unlike many Black directors/producers): owns his own studio, the rights to his films. Although he entertains a lot of nonsense, he is able to bring us fresh Black faces who are then able to go on to “our” Hollywood. Spike Lee has always had to go find independent investors to fund his projects (which may be the reason he has problems with paying his actors lol). If you notice, Black hollywood is actually very small, and comprised mostly of people who have been known since the 80’s.
The game may change, because Lupita has bought the film rights for a film (Americanah I believe), and there has been talk of her working towards buying other “Black-oriented” film rights in the future. Which means (like Tyler Perry) more black writers, actors, actresses, and all that jazz in complex/multi-faceted roles.
-You’re also forgetting that Perms/Straight hair have been a cultural norm since they were created. There was pressure to straighten our hair for a while, because of course….racism and (this was around the early 1900s of course) people often flat out ridiculed our hair in combination with everything else. THEY WERE NOT INVENTED BY A BLACK WOMAN. THEY WERE INVENTED IN 1931 BY GARRET A. MORGAN- A MAN. Many people figured if their hair was straight they’d might have it a little easier – if you could straighten your hair to mimic white hair styles, you would (in theory) be less likely to receive taunts. Thus the hot comb was created, which made hair more “manageable”. It was temporary, of course, which led to the creation of the chemical relaxers that would come to be used today.So the practice of altering Black hair en masse for “assimilation purposes” has been going on from about 1905-now. Because the “fairer traits” were favored (a tool of derision that has been used since slavery. #teamlightskin/#teamdark skin anyone). To be straight haired and light was considered a Godsend back then.
A lot of people who could pass for skin, but had hair that was too curly to fully pass literally disappeared out of their families lives when the hot comb and relaxers were created. This was the case of four of great-great grandmother’s nine children. She’d had children with a slave, was disowned by her father, but was given wealth so she and her “husband” could live comfortably. By the time hot combs rolled around, a sizable chunk of my grandmother’s great aunts and uncles disappeared to live new lives as white people. Children to dark were abandoned or sent back to live with the Black family.
Anyway, most people came to just rock perms because their parents did. This includes the actors and actresses. Nobody really thought deeper than because “nappy” hair and new growth was always seen as ugly. Nobody who had a parent that loved them let them walk around with too much new growth.The Natural hair movement about 60 years ago was a brief break from that pattern. After integration, most people went back to relaxed hair (natural hair was now viewed as “militant”, thanks to the spread of misinformation about the Black Panther Party by the FBI). Integration brought back the pressure to assimilate. You didn’t need to be different anymore,because now you could have the same things white people did! Then the 80’s happened. The 80’s and early 90’s were pretty much the tipping point for the Black community : the destruction of the good factory jobs that required no degree, AIDS, Reagan, crack magically appearing on the streets, some of the worst gang violence Black communities would ever see, mass incarceration of Black men and women…you get the point.
Since then, there has been a very tedious process of undoing all of that damage. The demand for relaxers has been steadily decreasing for about 10 years, as the internet (unbiased history, the ability to reach elders, one another) gave the new generation the resources necessary to further undo what had been done. Obviously, we have not reached some people (i.e. you, because you obviously have not read a lick of the information here. It’s literally a timeline and explanation for each major factor in our undoing), but the natural hair community is rounding more Black women up. Not only that, but we are expanding the idea of “Black is beautiful” to include Biracial women Afro-Latina women, Afro-Carribe women, African women, in all our shades and textures of hair (including straight).
THE POINT OF THE MOVEMENT WAS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN to celebrate Black Beauty in the face of being despised by everyone else. During Jim Crow, white people flat out hated us. Now, the excuse is (as given by many casting directors, ceos, and high-powered taste makers in the media) “they just can’t get into us” or “black people having ‘white’ interests is not believable enough”(this is what was told to Donald Glover for when he went out for the Spiderman Role. Peter Parker’s interests include science and photography). Black leads in blockbuster films are not chosen because white people feel like it’s “too politically correct” or they just flat out don’t want them there. In Pre-Slavery films, nobody cast Black people because most people honestly believe there were no African people in Europe.
Nobody is upset about a hashtag. We’re upset that all the misinformed Nouveau Blacks and “reverse racism” (when it that has been proven MILLIONS of times to be a stupid, untrue and dangerous ideology) folks are coming out of the woodwork to talk about things they haven’t even taken the time to comprehend or understand. If you have not taken the time to actually read some of these comments, or have not researched your history past the requirements to get a C on a college term paper, don’t comment. Talking out of your neck with opinion in the face of facts is stupid.
Your comment needs to rebuttal in itself. It’s much deeper than hair that blind people can’t seem to understand. There’s an entire history behind it. Well said.
@Laura
The bad part about it is that is literally as easy as opening another tab and googling it themselves.
If they think we’re being wrong, why is it nobody can come with proof?
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Thank you for correcting me a bout the inventor of the relaxer. You are correct for some reason I was thinking about Madam C.J. Walker when I was writing the original post. Now let me address a few points in your essay : )
First I am well aware that the majority of black hair care companies are owned by white corporations. The color of the owners skin does not change the basic rules of economics.. supply and demand. The demand for relaxers went down creating a decrease in profits to fix the drop in revenue and remain profitable you figure out what your consumers are now demanding.. natural hair care and you fill the void to recuperate your loss and remain profitable. So I really don’t see what your point was in bringing that up.
Second your comment ” A lot of the positive things we want to see, would pay for, do not happen.” No one continues to make things that are not profitable for them. If when these positive movies came out we actually showed up to support them they would make more of them. We say one thing and when given the opportunity we fail to follow through. Since you brought up Tyler Perry let us use him as an example. His For Colored Girls movie was one of his lowest grossing movies ever (second to be exact). But when he’s dressed like an ignorant old drag queen we show up in overwhelming numbers. What movies do you think are going to get made. And Tyler Perry does exactly the same thing as the big studios. He uses well known black actors. What new actor did he bring to the table?
Thirdly, your history on black hair was totally unnecessary I know the reason behind our issues. What it took you 4 paragraphs to state I said in one sentence “our inferiority issues stem from slavery.” I don’t think that there is any black person alive who isn’t aware of that fact. What you failed to understand or purposely chose not see in my original post is that we all know the why, now it’s time to do something about it.
It’s time to transition from the victim mentality. When we make this about race we are self sabotaging and derailing our goal. No one is thinking about self love and healing. We’ve created an unnecessary distraction. The topic of discussion shouldn’t be whether white people can be a part of the #team natural movement. It shouldn’t even be on your radar. we should be so busy loving and accepting ourselves and spreading the message that we could care less about what so and so is doing.
The subject of our hair is a bandage over a deeper wound. Instead of focusing on discrimination from an outside force we need to fix the discrimination and prejudices that we inflict on each other first. We are on the cusp of something great here. A real chance to break this cycle. Let’s stay focused. Were making strides but we have a long road to travel.
This article is so pitiful I have to laugh. I’m not angry but highly amused and somewhat disturbed. In this place we aint got time for the white apologists that want to equate our right to exclusion (after being marginalized) to apartheid. Any yet our exclusion of who represents Afro-textured/coily hair has oppressed no one. I will not elaborate any further. Enough wise and conscious sistahs see the BS and have laid it out. I will simply declare this article a pathetic troll piece that should’ve not been displayed here. Remember ladies trolls/haters mean progress.
*moves on and waits for the featuring of a pretty black girl with a fresh twist out*
As I read this article I was amused it was one sided and lack substance as a black one with natural hair that is of a loose curl pattern I could remember as a child my white school teachers your hair is beautiful its silky and soft just like mine how did u get hair like that. I now know they were ignorant just like you
@Almonddimplew Thank you. *claps*
I don’t think we HAVE to be inclusive. I think we can be but it’s not a must. I don’t think we have to attack every non-black person who wants to be part of the community but there’s nothing wrong with being wary. There’s nothing wrong with wanting them to be in the background for awhile. There are too many instances of black people thinking a non-black person is for them only to find out when certain issues pop up they are not. If we were only talking about hair maybe I’d feel different but these spaces are about more than hair to me. We don’t have to keep these spaces under lock and key, but EVERYONE is not welcome, especially if their POV can do more harm than good.
“If we were only talking about hair maybe I’d feel different but these spaces are about more than hair to me.”
I think that’s the main point many of us need to really highlight in our comments.
I honestly thought when I saw CurlyNikki and I saw a picture of her, she looked LIKE me. By extension, when I saw the women on the site, I thought it would be catering to the African aesthetic of natural afro hair, which may be braids, etc.
In the previous article on BGLH that I commented on, I got thumbs-downed because I said part of my background is Ugandan. The other part is Afro American. Having left Uganda after independence and coming to America during the height of Black Pride, my parents were probably OVERLY conscious of the messages THEY sent to US (us = their children) about not just our hair, but our heritage and our African features.
That said, I NEVER received negative comments about my hair in its natural state in my own household, but my hair was styled to the fashion of Afro American culture at the time of the 80s and 90s. That was hot-combing, braiding and (more horribly) a jheri curl. I was acutely aware that I wanted to be like my other Afro American girlfriends by the time I was 10 years old, and they were getting relaxers at *salons*. I begged my mother for some money to go to the salon with my girlfriend, and by age 12 I had gone to a black salon to have the chemical treatment. My hair was cut unbelievably short and it tingled, but it was pretty and I felt like I had reached young adulthood/puberty.
My aunties and cousins all had natural hair when visiting from Uganda, and I never internalized that belief that it was ugly. However, I also was NEVER re-affirmed of “natural black beauty” in midwestern America–and I am not using the term “natural HAIR” because the fact is that magazines put Beauty & Hair in pretty much the same areas in layouts here in America; in other words, beauty and hair are intrinsically linked here in America, and I would wager elsewhere.
Like many Afro American women, I had a horrible time at salons because of the overwhelming suggestion that we chemically straighten our hair, but I continued to do it to keep up with what I thought was my *femininity* in America. I got braids and I got relaxers. When my older sister went natural, not a person in my family blinked because it’s the default. However, I now realize my sister probably also had to come to terms with that although within the household her hair being “de facto afro = normal”, that was not the case when she went outside in the bigger world.
When I got my first corporate job in a Southern state, I consulted a BLACK WOMAN in the office if it would be okay if I got braids. I was concerned that because it was a predominantly white area (but Asian company with many foreign staff), they would see it as some sort of unprofessional or crazy do. However, braids and short afros are the norm throughout Africa and the African diaspora, so I even thought of what I would have to say if HR consulted me. She assured me it was okay, and it was.
At that time, I had even gotten one of my first weaves and I couldn’t wait to get that thing off and go into twist braids. I went downtown to get the braids and the Senegalese woman exclaimed, “You need to relax your hair, it’s too thick. Next time get a relaxer, it’ll be better.” Here was another black woman telling me to get chemical treatment, and so I did, without consulting my mother or my sisters. It goes without saying that in America, I also could not consult even Essence magazine, because in the early 2000s, there were virtually no articles about up keeping natural hair in braids. I sadly and honestly had NO idea of safe places for BLACK WOMEN to talk about braids and other natural hair styles that fit our aesthetic and hair texture existed on the internet.
In any case, I got a relaxer and went back. It was the most painful experience of my life and I started crying in the beautician’s chair.
If there had been a place that was specifically catered to my Afro American aesthetic that was also knowledgeable, I probably would have consulted that place and the women there and not have had those twists put in by a woman who told me to relax my hair before braids.
I don’t agree with the rude comments to users who disagree, however, I think some commenters here need to realize that culturally safe places have been created for a reason in the Americas. I don’t care about that hashtag. I am talking about the websites.
My whole life was spent flipping through magazines like Glamour, Seventeen, Vogue etc. where the Beauty & Hair section are complete black holes for me. At the time, it was ridiculously hard to get imported versions of magazines like African Woman to get styles. When I read mainstream magazines I just never read the beauty/hair section, especially after an InStyle article for makeup put Zoe Saldana and Beyonce in the “Dark/Deep” section for foundation, with no skin tones after that. Especially after all of the features tell of techniques that do not work on afro textured hair. I didn’t care because that was what consulting BLACK WOMEN was for anyway.
When I couldn’t rely on my family to give me styles, or I couldn’t get ideas from Essence magazine, I really wish their could have been a space like CurlyNikki. Now of course there are forums like BGLH.
I understand many of you may NOT have been like Temi and I who were reinforced at home–and possibly by a larger black population–that black is beautiful.
Of course, having thought about it more, I began to see that even in my case that this is often undermined when you go outside into a predominantly non-black culture. I didn’t need reaffirmation of my blackness and its beauty–I needed ways to style this beauty (again, for me, hair is a subsection under beauty). I highly doubt that if black natural hair websites featured more women who did not look like me with hair like mine that I could relate.
Seriously? Do you even understand the sociological concept of racism. This is basic. People who have been and still continue to be systematically subjugated by the dominant race CANNOT BE RACIST. They might be prejudiced. They might be able to practice discrimination (though this is oftentimes pretty rare), but they can’t be racist!!! Not to mention there are no systems in place that seek to subjugate white people at large. Why can’t people understand this BASIC concept?
And why should black women make any attempt to include white women in our struggle to FINALLY accept and love ourselves. White women have been on their pedestals since before any of us could even say “European Beauty Standards” and they have made NO attempt to encourage our movement towards self acceptance.
Why do black folk think they need to be included or include white folk in their lives so much? Stop privileging whiteness so much!
And hair=apartheid. Stop. Just stop.
GTFOH…this article is such a Strrrrretttttttchhh. Stop trying to include people who do not include you. Next thing you know blondes will say THEY started the natural hair movement and we’ll be sitting here reading it in their history books. Can we please stop lining-up to give our culture away?? #annoyed
Let me tell why I don’t believe the bs that it is hard for a curly haired white women to understand our struggle with our kinky coily hair as black women…there are plenty of hair commercials that are clearly aimed at white woman that encourage “gorgeous” curls “elegant”..if curly hair wasn’t accepted why would they use these adjectives towards the “unacceptable” hair type. As a matter of fact any time a new white celebrity comes on the scene with curly hair the are almost instantly made an icon, and numerous hair articles and what not on how to achieve their curls. Plus why do so many white women get perms to achieve curly hair? so you can miss me with that bs saying a white woman can understand what I went through?
“If you want acceptance, you need to start accepting others into your clique otherwise why should they care about your stories, how would they see their poignancy and relevance?”
Considering that Black spaces bare made by necessity and not by choice, I would think that changes the game. It’s not like we willingly divided into two cliques and are now warring it out like a scene outta West Side Story. Mainstream society and culture has ALWAYS put us in a corner and forgot about us. When we asked for representation, we were handed a few crumbs at best.
So, the Natural Hair Movement was born to teach us to love ourselves so we would NOT rely on validation from Mainstream. They derailed that Post-Civil Rights, and it’s led us to take up the movement again because (surprise surprise) we have not had any results thus far.
How much sense does it make to allow the majority claim a new playground when we can’t even get past the gates of their amusement park? They have a whole amusement park, why let them overrun the only neighborhood playground we have?
JC must have thought she was in a UK Science Lab, cause she has started a fireeer up in here! And she got 3 degree comment burns up in here. Lol.
These comments have BURN so bad she must have nerve damage, cause I only saw one reply from her. I think some good points for consideration have been made. I would like to here her response to some of the questions if it’s not to much scar damage.
Lol at this article. This nonsense is really shaking the wheat from the shaft though.
It was nice to see this writer’s point of view. I can definitely say that I am getting irritated with all this talk about who can be allowed in and who is not welcomed. When I started my hair journey back to a chemical-free state for the fourth time I was pleasantly surprised that this time around there is plenty of information available online (websites, forums, youtube, blogs, vlogs, entire product lines, etc.). Since many black women and other women of color have some experience with racism, prejudice, bigotry, stereotypes, why would any of us turn around and do it to someone else. If a white woman or non-black woman for that matter felt she could learn something from “our” hair communities then why would we not embrace that desire for knowledge. I think it was mentioned in the article or by another commenter, if a non black parent is raising a black, bi-racial, or multi-racial child with a kinky, curly, coily hair where should that parent go for information on how to properly and safely care for their child’s hair? If they come to this site or other sites and are met with such hatred because they “don’t know the struggle”, we are now discriminating against them. I frequent these sites and youtube videos for information on how to properly care for my hair in a chemical-free state. I do not want to come on these sites and have a discussion about how we can “keep all others out”. To me this is as bad as “whites only pools”, “whites only bathrooms” and “whites only schools”. We have fought for so long to be taken out of the box that we have been placed in for hundreds of years, why place ourselves into another box?! I am over it. I will no longer read articles like this or like article in which this was a response to. I will no longer read comments on articles like these. I have had my struggles with my hair, skin color, the fact that I am a woman. Instead of continuing these struggles, I will rise above the ignorance. I will keep educating my non-black friends on some of MY struggles but I will not wallow in the pity. Black women as a whole are very strong physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually and I believe we a better than this.
Better than what? Stop being a white apologist. Always trying to force black women to swallow their anger and their disgust. Where were your white friends when young black girls were thrown out of schools? Where were your white friend when my friend got fired from her law firm because she decided to go natural and they did not feel that nappy hair coincided with the direction of the law firm? And mind there were curly white women working there.
We are better than the intrusion of white women in our spaces. They have mainstream media they should suck on it. Why should they be included in EVERYTHING. My word! The audacity! Aren’t they satisfied? My word. This greed.
Like Chinua Achebe said guests at a funeral should not mourn more than the bereaved.
JC you are Kenyan? You must be far removed from racism in the UK. Perhaps you are married to a white man and because you have interacted with his part of the family you assume that you can speak for us in a condescending manner. This is not a personal attack. Please stick to science articles. Sociology or critical race theory or African history is not your best suit. Using Mandela and apartheid in this article IS AN INSULT TO BLACK PEOPLE WHO WERE RAPED, KIDNAPPED, KILLED, EXCLUDED IN THEIR OWN HOME. Did this white woman get raped because of her curly hair? By whom? Black women? More like she is DOING WHAT HER ANCESTORS KNOW WHAT TO DO BEST. STEAL FROM OTHER PEOPLE AND CALL IT THEIR OWN.
THIS ARTICLE WAS A COMPLETE FAIL. BGLH YOU KNOW BETTER THAN TO INSULT US WITH AN ARTICLE LACKING IN DEPTH AND CRITICAL ANALYSIS.
Her husband is White.
The comparison used in this article is ignorant. In creating a space to talk about the beauty of a specific type of hair, black people are being no more racist than any other outlet that focuses on a specific type of hair. In the comments for the other article, it was mentioned that virtually every popular fashion magazine includes almost no black people as fashion icons. And if a black person is mentioned (never featured), then they have hair that is chemically or thermally altered or is in a weave. Are we now saying that when this excluded group of people creates a space for themselves, they are at fault for there not being an integrated discussion? That is wrong. This is a situation where a group has purposefully excluded black natural hair from their standard of beauty for hundreds of years, and are now seeking to infiltrate spaces that do celebrate black hair and to dilute the central message of acceptance for a type of beauty that has previously been proclaimed unacceptable. And it is not just blonde girls who want to create a little controversy out of boredom. It is corporations who want to find a way to capitalize off of the movement by pushing their products. It is political groups who see a coalescing faction and want to redirect it for their own purposes. We as black people have a history of allowing ourselves to be swayed by people who have no desire for our success on the off chance that we might at last be accepted into the mainstream. We are like a girl with low self-esteem who, when anybody asks for a pencil, gives freely, but when she needs a pencil, everyone keeps their pencils to themselves. They take and don’t give, and they have no respect for someone who doesn’t realize the worth of the things that belong to her. Can we for once realize that others will not treat us like equals until we act like equals? They have a space for themselves, we have a space for ourselves. It’s not utopian, but until they are willing to concede, we should not either. Everything that is ours is not theirs, just like everything that is theirs is not ours. Just look at all the changes (if only nominal) that have been made just because so many girls stopped bowing to the Euro-centric standard of beauty. If we step up, they will make room.
Good post.
Wow this is a sad sad article. I’m so happy the comments ripped this piece of crap article apart.
I think I will just stop with this blog all together because this article is a joke. #teamnatural is for black women, and black women only. full stop.
Thank you JC! And thank God I grew up in a Black Country, because I can not with the African American mentality
Me too!! I think these over the top reactions can only be understood by african americans. As an african currently living in the UK this over reaction astounds me. People have a right to call themselves natural if they want and hence teamnatural.
Smh, I have the good mind to reach through my laptop and e-slap you across your face. Are you high or what? Classic cases of Africans who are born into (and don’t recognize their) Black Privilege and lack empathy for Blacks who aren’t.
You and Kb need to speak for yourselves and ONLY yourselves, because I and several other born-and-bred Africans from all over the continent both understand and SHARE these so-called “over the top reactions.” Our natural hair (esp Kinky) is still very much shunned by the majority of other Africans, even who have never even stepped foot out of their respective countries or seen a white person in real life. Yet, you don’t see the importance of why this movement should remain exclusive to Blacks? Smdh. #GetRealAndStopSmokingGanja
I want to say a lot more, but I’ll leave it at this: Have a stadium of toilet seats. #Nonsense
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152180421338483&id=541368482
http://aidanneal.com/2014/06/29/racism-caribbeans-just-dont-get-it/
Roo, please answer me this question. Why do you believe most Black women across the world were relaxing their hair? Please share your opinion.
I believe that the fact you are astounded by the reactions to this topic has nothing to do with you living in the UK. I’m also from the UK, was born and raised there. I constantly got teased by white children and adults about my hair and if it wasn’t my hair it’d be the colour of my skin or some other physical feature. Thank god for me i grew up with black pride and never really experienced negativity from other black people regarding wearing my hair natural hair and i’ve been natural for some 20 years now. But i totally understand the struggles a lot of us have been through. In my household i refuse my daughter white dolls, although she was given one as a present so she has kept that one. I constantly show her pictures of natural afro hair and if i’m out on the road and we see other black females or males with hair in their natural state i always point out how beautiful their hair looks. It has got to the point in the Uk where i have seen children as young as 5 wearing weaves as well as being relaxed. This is very sad because always they are children of African mothers. So to say that the Hair issues only affect AAs is completely false it just sounds to me that there are a lot of people in denial.
The late Fela Kuti (and his Pan-African contemporaries) will disagree with you about the need for exclusive spaces.
Never mind that Black countries have their own issues left over from colonialism. People will look at you sideways if you wear your hair out the way God made it, but relaxers are selling in the village market for kobo, cents, centimes, pesewa by the case… *kiss teeth*
I do not want to insult you. But I will. I GREW UP IN THE BLACKEST BLACKEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. NIGERIA. Ever heard of it? If you think we are far removed from the racial experiences of African American…then I cannot blame you BUT THE FAILED EDUCATION SYSTEM MANY AFRICAN COUNTRIES ARE REPUTED TO HAVING.
Natural HAIR MOVEMENT IS FOR BLACK WOMEN. It is not RACIST. Say, you have a home don’t you? I will use caps. If you like think I am shouting. But I want these words to linger in your eyeballs. IF YOU HAVE A HOME, AND I INTRUDE. AND I TELL YOU THAT I HAVE A HOME TOO SO WHY CAN’T WE LIVE TOGETHER IN YOUR HOME. EMPHASIS IS ON “IN YOUR HOME”. I PRAY TO GOD YOU WILL LET ME IN YOUR HOME. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, NOTHING. IF YOU REFUSE. I PRAY ALSO THAT SOMEONE COMES TO YOU AND SAY. THAnk God I live in the WHITEST COUNTRY, I CAN’T WITH AFRICAN PEOPLE.
Africans suffer from self-hatred. The racism that exists in Africa and possibly all over the world is called NEW RACISM OR DEMOCRATIC RACISM. A racism where EVERYONE AGREES WITH BECAUSE NO ONE CAN SEE IT. You coming here and writing such an insult, SHOWS THAT YOU SUFFER DEEP DEEP SELF-HATRED. But to your demise, YOU CANNOT SEE IT.
Your black country, is it not infiltrated by whites who are trying their hardest to save you and your likes from yourselves? Your black country, is it not run by whites where you think your government answers to its people rather than to foreign white countries that seek to dictate its policies and laws? Spare me this BULLCRAP. You are as much a colonial victim, colonial vestiges I call it, as the next African American. I know it. Because as a Nigerian, I see that our people, including your black country, suffer from the pathological interception of colonial misinterpretation of ourselves. Not sure if that makes sense.
Oh thank God – you get it! I was beginning to wonder if the sisters from the continent were asleep at the wheel.
My friend from Burundi who lives here in the States agrees with you about the African educational system failing them, with regards to CONTEXT in African-American, Afro-Caribbean, and Afro-Latin American history. Many Africans just don’t get it, and insult what they don’t understand.
The legacy of colonialism is real, people! If anyone doubts it, look at the growing rate of bleaching cream use in places like Jamaica, India and Nigeria. When will we accept that we are fine the way the Creator made us, and stop grasping for white mainstream acceptance?!?
Thank you again, my sister!
@ebony OMG just STOP pleeeaaassseee!!! STOP trying to act like we are the same! WE ARE NOT THE SAME!!! Literally every historian will tell you that the plight of African Americans is UNIQUE to them. No other group in the world can claim to understand what they have gone through because no other group has gone through it – regardless of skin colour.
Yes Nigeria was colonised by the British – but so was India, Australia, Egypt, New Zealand, Jamaica etc and none of these countries have got chips on their shoulders and go around shouting “we hate white people”. Please stop trying to paint my country men as miserable, hateful people. We do not suffer self hatred thank you very much. We’re too busy trying to sort out corrupt governments and poverty to start worrying about this “new racism” you speak of.
Black Americans are the only group in the world that do not know where they originally come from. And its sad because although America is full of different nationalities (Italian Americans, Asian Americans etc), they all know their histories and cultures. Black Americans are forced to adapt to a majority culture (that of the white americans), even though that culture doesn’t fully accept or represent them. So I do understand their anger sometimes. And I am starting to understand the argument for a space that is their own.
But how can you sit there and try and put us all in to the same boat? You are Nigerian and always will be. Nigerians all around will always accept you as their own – natural or relaxed hair. You will never have to fight to be accepted or represented by your country because you are seen as their own. Black Americans have had to fight for just that for years and years. So please explain to me how those of us in Nigeria are in the same boat as black Americans?
AAs are not the only people who do not know where they come from. have you tried asking the average Caribbean person that question? You know very little of the colonisation of India, Australia or New Zealand. Even today there are Aboriginal and Maori people fighting against the racist system the British put in place to keep these people down, same in the Caribbean. Go and read some real news instead of the propaganda rubbish made up by the British.
I honestly do not care about the history of all those places. It still doesn’t take away from the point i’m trying to make, which is that we – Africans and Black Americans – are not the same. Simple. The only thing we share is the colour of our skin. Isn’t it even true that most black americans are mixed with white and native american? So even genetically we’re not even the same.
You’re right, Temi. AAs and people from the continent are not the same. AAs and Caribbeans are not the same. AAs and Brits are not the same. Our collective cultures are all very different; even southern AAs are very different from eastern, western, northern, and midwestern AA… nobody’s monolithic. But we all have shared experiences and because we were (are) colonized and oppressed. I’m having trouble understanding why you are trying so hard to distance yourself from people who share a lot of history with you.
And also, this won’t be popular, but a LOT of Africans have snippets and tidbits of other genetic heritages, just like us AAs. Y’all were bought and raped over the centuries too, not to mention the fact that trade routes also meant exchanges of genetic material through marriages. You may not be “diluted” (so silly, race is a social construct) to the same extent as AAs, perhaps….but go get yourself genetically tested. You might be surprised. I did, and I was. Despite my 27% Euro, 1% Asian, and 2% Native heritages…I’m still 70% African, and 60% West African at that. And I’m proud of it:)
WRONG. They never accepted my natural hair. NEVER. It is now growing in Nigeria. Are you in Nigeria?
You had me at “and I am starting to understand the argument for a space that is their own”! The rest is tangential to the main point which is being able to see both sides of the argument. For me, this isn’t about beating one another over the head with our opinions but sharing viewpoints. I’m interested to know WHY the few that agree with the author do agree with her & I want the author & those who share her opinion to be open to understanding why some of us don’t agree. Uh oh now! We just might learn something from each other! Lol
Temi, you sound very ignorant. You were the one who brought up India Australia and all those other Countries that had been colonised by the British and stated something that is not true.
You should be able to decipher from my “name” that I grew up in a “black’ country as well. So, like you I can relate to being in the majority and seeing those who looked like me in leadership positions, though we had other races represented as well.
Now kindly don’t consider this as a personal attack, but I think if you understood what African-Americans have had to endure you would have a different perspective on what you’ve termed the “African American mentality.” I think I qualify as a credible speaker having lived in the U.S. for the last 26 years.
First, it is a known fact that slavery in the U.S. was beyond inhumane when compared to other areas of the Americas. In the Caribbean, with the passing of the Emancipation Act, there were steps to “rectify” wrongs, such as providing access to civil service jobs and education – not always seamless, but still there was the effort. In the U.S., once slavery was terminated, it continued in the form of Jim Crow Laws, such that you can vote if your grandfather voted and / or owned property. To a former slave, this was a means to keep them voiceless, because technically, their grandfathers and fathers could not vote, did not own property, and were considered 3/5 of a person – 3/5 Compromise. Certainly, African Americans made improvements post slavery, but with institutionalized prejudice such as the aforementioned, there were sometimes limits as to how far one could proceed.
So, that synopsis of U.S. history is just to state that the past affected the present. While slavery may no longer be in physical existence, it is still in political, economic and social realms. Just consider how President Obama is treated; such treatment would never have been meted out to either Margaret Thatcher or John Major as superpower leaders. With him though it has been open season.
If you have been constantly “told”, both blatantly and inadvertently, that you are less than, or that you are not smart enough, or my favorite, that you’re a minority, you can easily begin to absorb that “logic.” If you are fed the notion that bumping, throwing a ball, or singing some lyrics is the way out to a fabulous life, then you begin to aspire to that.
So, this “African American mentality” of which you write has some grounding. You want to create and maintain your own identify because both you and your ancestors have been told that the closer you look to the “master” the better off you are. The concern though is that when you don’t look like the “master” you are perceived as insignificant. You also need to create your own identity, because you were financially rewarded for not having a male in the household via the welfare system. Yet, a president (cue Reagan) called you a welfare queen because you maintain a family on that system.
Do you understand why individuals would therefore need to have their own space, be it in the form of a natural hair website / blog / forum? I hope you do. I also hope that you realize that we are all closely related than we know we are. You know those slave ships deliberately separated families – you never know if some of your cousins are on this blog 🙂 At least that’s what I tell my students when we discuss similarities and differences among people.
Trini, all slavery was beyond inhumane whether by the Portuguese, Dutch, British, French or Spanish. The very notion of kidnapping a people from their land and forcing them into slave labour. Being treated less then animals. Please read the book ‘To Shoot Hard Labour’. It is an account of the life of an Antiguan man post Slavery on the Island. There were similar laws in place to prevent our ancestors from total freedom and being in control of their own destiny. We were still at the mercy of the white man many years past slavery. I’ve often asked my grandfather, who is in his 90’s what life was like for him growing up in Antigua. Unfortunately, this is something he has no interest in discussing as life for the average person was very hard indeed. Since starting a life in Britain he has never wanted to return to Antigua or any other part of the Caribbean for that matter. He doesn’t understand why anyone would want to return, he is completely brainwashed into believing that Europe is the be all and end all.
Unfortunately there are many black people i have come across with this same attitude.
It is unfortunate about your grandfather. However, I don’t think that you caught the gist or the main idea of my comments; they were not meant to categorize slavery as being more or less severe in any one region. The individual to whom I was responding mentioned the “African American mentality.” My comments were therefore meant to explain the root behind her perception of that mentality. If you want to take the slavery issue and run with it, enjoy the marathon. There is no need for me to read additional material on its effects as I am well aware of its ills.
Furthermore, your point about Antigua is not really relevant to the points that I made. I am quite sure that individuals of African descent can run for offices in Antigua – correct me if I am wrong. I haven’t quite kept up with Caribbean politics lately, but I would venture to say that your island probably has had its fair share of Prime Ministers and government leaders who are of African descent – again, correct me if I am wrong. When I grew up in Trinidad, Eugenia Charles was the Prime Minister of Dominica, and currently Trinidad has a female Prime Minister who is of Indian descent, while Jamaica has Portia Simpson.
Can you follow my argument now? The after effects of slavery on the U.S. precludes the aforementioned. Again, do consider how the current president has been, and continues to be treated. Has the Prime Minister of Antigua had to prove his birthright? Has he been called a liar or even sued? I would venture to say no, of course you can correct me if I am wrong. Yet, President Obama has been challenged and belittled constantly – more so than any other president. My point was not that slavery was more glorious in one region than another, but rather that Jim Crow laws are alive and thriving.
You did in your 3rd paragraph state that ‘it is a known fact that slavery in the U.S. was beyond inhumane when compared to other areas of the Americas’. I simply responded in order to correct you. I mentioned my grandfather in order to highlight the mentality of many people of African descent across the globe. We are still clutching onto the Willie Lynch Syndrome and believe that everything Europeans do and say has more substance than what our own brothers and sisters do and say. Ever hear of Dwight York? He’s a famous ex football(soccer) player from Trinidad who use to play for teams in England. Some years ago he wanted to buy an apartment in Trinidad in a complex owned by Europeans. Do you know they refuse to sell him one. That man has so much money why not build his own complex. Why go and beg the white man to live next to him.
It’s quite clear that your mentality is different to mine because when it comes to the Governments in the Caribbean, i don’t care which Island they are governing, they are all puppets controlled by America and Europe. They allow Foreigners to buy heaps of land for them to develop on. None of them are interested in fighting the real problems our people are affected by or maybe you know of one. As much as i like to see a black family in the white house and i was one of those celebrating his success, lets be real President Obama doesn’t have that much power. You see this mentality is commonplace amongst us. My post is also to make aware to my AA sisters that this mentality is commonplace even in so called black countries. All of it is relevant.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some of these comments….
Some women who follow the water only or sebum only methods, irrespective of race, nationality, etc. call themselves natural. And rightly so, they have not altered their hair in any way. Calling them natural doesn’t minimise my hair journey,experiences in any way. I think some of the feelings expressed here are borne out of something else.
They are considered natural But they are not a part of the natural hair movement. Going natural for mainstream America is not the same as being on a natural hair journey. Natural hair journey implies acceptance of an overall beauty that has been consistently marginalized by society. So a white woman using her urine to wash her hair has not been taught to hate her skin, nose, hips, and even hair. She is just using urine. Get my drift. Using urine or acv rinse or butter or wine or beer or whatever is using a natural product not being on a natural hair journey. Are we making progress? So these feelings are born out of the consistent need for white people to occupy spaces where they are not wanted. Jc likens our exclusion to apartheid but she fails to see tha apartheid was born out of white people invading a space I.e. a country and calling it their own. Same with the white young lady on curlynikki. She infiltrated a space and in some way she got clapped back. Because history shows white people are notorious of taking the whole body when they are offered just a finger. Are we making progress? Or are you choosing to lag behind.
No offense, but please shut up. How dare you. I really can’t with non black Americans. As a Nigerian-American, I am sick of this holier than thou mentality that exists with people like you.
I’m from one of the blackest countries in the Caribbean…explain to me why skin bleaching is an epidemic? Explain to me why I’m seen as brave for embracing my natural hair? You really think the African American mentality is so different from people of African descent from around the globe, especially when all of us have similar experiences struggling with our identity?
Lupita Nyong’o, one of the most high profile Africans in the media right now, would respectfully disagree with your assessment if her speech about her blackness and her beauty is anything to go by.
The difference between the comments/reaction on this website and curlynikki’s site are pretty staggering.
I think that the experience of African Americans should be respected. You may not have had their struggle but that is not something that should be marginalized or deprecated. They are the one’s that spearheaded the natural hair movement for which, I personally am thankful ( I am not AA). It takes courage to love your hair and I respect the courage in the “movement”. We should have our space because every other space is not our own. The cry of “natural nazis” and “exclusionary” is an attempt to destabilize a worthwhile cause and we should resist it fiercely. Because of this “movement” I have come to a place where I genuinely think I am fabulous, amazing and fine as hell! Stop diluting the message by including everyone and their granny! It is that deep and not just hair.
Oh I completely agree! I actually made a similar comment on curlynikki’s website. Not sure why I was downvoted numerously for making an observation.
I think people assumed you were making a negative judgment about the comments here in comparison.
Curlynikki’s site is now owned by a white corporation…
For these “curly” women desiring inclusion in the Natural Hair movement: Please get back to us when you are harassed in the workplace, or your daughter is harassed by school administrators, for your/her 3a-3c hair. Or when it is considered “unclean,” “unkempt,” or “unprofessional” for being in its natural state, to the point when your job is in jeopardy. Ever wear a wig to a job interview because you were afraid you wouldn’t be offered the job if you wore your “natural” hair, regardless of how educated or qualified you were? Let us know if your 3a-3c friends experience any difficulties with their “natural” hair while serving their country in the military. Until then, please have a stadium of seats.
To the author: How dare you use a Mandela quote and reference the evils of Apartheid. That’s more offensive than your weak argument. Perhaps you should google “Apartheid Pencil Test” for instruction on the politics of hair texture. That may help you understand the spirit and intention of for whom the Natural Hair movement was intended.
News flash: when Don Imus said “nappy headed **es,” he was not referring to “curly” hair. Because “curly” usually isn’t used as a pejorative. “Nappy” is. “Curly” carries no significant racial historical invective, baggage or loathing (see Shirley Temple).
Leave the sistas alone, quit “Columbussing,” and stay in your lane. We are sick and tired of cultural appropriation by the privileged.
Have you been talking to Adoseofreality? Lol
You both make similar points equally well-expressed
i can’t agree with you here, JC. sounds like a play for devil’s advocate on this one. i would argue that the reason why white people and black people have the negative views they do toward curly and kinky hair types is because of white people. they created this monster. they have ample healing to undergo on their own, to be sure, but that’s why there’s all sorts of spaces out there that are theirs alone. not every space is for everybody, and there’s nothing wrong with that. that’s the great thing about the internet. if we go with your premise, JC, then we should change the name of this blog to simply “Girl with long hair” because “black girl long hair” could be construed as racist. there’s just so much to this debate that i hadn’t even thought was up for debate prior to reading this article and the one which precipitated it.
So let me get this right:
First, Black women and our hair (and most other features) are excluded from representation in the mainstream.
Second, Black women beg to be included and it either falls on deaf ears or we are called insecure and jealous for even wanting it.
Third, we decide forget it then, we’ll create our own space where we can finally be represented.
And now, white women, who had no problem with and never spoke up about our exclusion from mainstream/popular spaces, are whining about being it being unfair that they are excluded in the singular space we have created to celebrate ourselves? And have compared this to apartheid??
I.simply.cannot.
While I don’t agree with Jc’s viewpoint, there’s no reason to be disrespectful or mean-spirited. Let’s not forget how much valuable information we’ve all gotten from the author in the past. We’re all entitled to our various opinions & this was meant to spark open conversation & debate so that we could see each side of the argument & learn from each other; we can disagree respectfully though. It’s possible that some of the more eloquent comments will change her mind or at least show her why we all feel the way we do.
That is all
No. I don’t agree. What was said in that post needed to be said and it needed to be said forcefully. “NO! You cannot have the movement that we created because of your exclusionary and harmful media/propaganda and how it hurts Black women and girls’ self esteem”. “NO! We will not allow you to co-opt and take over another thing that we have created and then pretend you were the ones who made it all along”. And “NO! We will not allow you to tone police us into complacency and to slowly erode away at our resolve”
The apartheid comparison is very far reaching. I don’t think white women or anyone should be excluded from the information about black hair care if they want to learn how to care for their black adopted, or bi-racial children. But a white woman’s difficulty and struggle with her curly or frizzy hair just doesn’t compare to a black woman’s search for self-love and appreciation in a world where her hair, her body, her intelligence weren’t seen as sexy, appealing, necessary, or valid for donkey years. Come on.
I want to know why as black people everyone, including some of our own black people take us for fools. I think the writer wants us to feel guilty for not being “inclusive” of others in the natural hair movement but I don’t feel guilty at all. Sorry but your post made me think that natural hair and all it’s issue could never be understood by any other race, and I wished that black people can own something for once without “being bullied” that we must share… I don’t think that was Jc’s intent when she submitted this to be posted!!
I ABSOLUTELY agree. Who bullies “them” into accepting Black women? Nobody, That’s why this Natural Hair Community is so beautiful. It was started by black women, FOR BLACK WOMEN, so that we can finally start to embrace and love the one thing about us that Ias been ridiculed, mocked and degraded since…well…forever. this community makes a statement that Black women FINALLY don’t give a damn about what white America/mainstream think of our hair. We love our hair and are committed to nuturing it and taking care of it as God intended. Now, like EVERYTHING else on the planet, white folks want to be a part of something because they feel excluded????. Cry me a river. They put value on what they want, when they want. As long as they’re not feeling left out, they’re okay. Black women are removing the white foot off our necks and reclaiming what’s ours, and we’re the bad guys…AGAIN. THEY ARE NOT WELCOME AND NEVER WILL BE AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED. Let them latch on to one of their existing “communities” and let us have something for a change , without them trying to get some too.
*playing world’s tiniest violin right now for them & their exclusion struggle
#byeFelicia!
Yes to this! We are always asked to forget our history and change ourselves to make others feel included or make them feel comfortable. It seems like black people happily oblige others. However, no other race is ever asked to consider our struggle or to recognize that our history is different. They are just allowed to take and do whatever they want and black people just have to shut up and take it. We need to stop allowing people to act like our stories, our history, our struggles don’t exist or matter.
“It is absolutely not true that every black woman can identify with a journey to self love, some of us can’t. Some of us actually grew up being told that we were beautiful as we are and our hair was beautiful as it is. It is a very myopic point of view to think that black people as a collective have the same journey, we don’t, we are individuals” – my favourite part and the point I was trying to make in the other article!!
Perhaps, in your household, but the media and western culture has always made clear that black hair is not beautiful. And judging by the millions of black women that wear weaves as a lifestyle(not hairstyle), many black girls were not told they are beautiful as is.
Maybe growing up you never left your house?
Trying to be funny?
Have you seen the doll experiment with White and Black girls?
If you have you will be aware that the duty of a Black parent is to raise the self-esteem of their daughters so they grow up knowing Black is beautiful and no-one has the right to treat you like a second class citizen.
You’re right. We are individuals, and we do not all share the same experience. Our point is that when somebody glances at you on the streets here in the US, they don’t care about where you’re from or your experiences. They just see a Black person, and that’s enough for quite a few people to come to a conclusion.
If you do not identify with the movement, nor understand why it isn’t for anyone but those who are of Black and African descent, you are more then welcome to NOT be a part of the celebration of our aesthetic. It is truly that simple. If you don’t wanna be lumped together with us, or learn the history and the reasons why we have the issues we face or the goals we have to achieve acceptance in the Black/African community, take your ass over to CurlyNikki and any other NaturallyCurly-owned site and sing the Kumbaya song with them.
Either you’re on board or you aren’t. You’re either furthering the cause or derailing it.
Comparing apartheid to hair is like…
Well, someone stole my pad thai out of the office fridge. I’m pretty sure that’s what slavery was like.
Okay my apology I completely misread the article. Sorry to anyone who was offended.
majority of people are offended
Okay and that is why I apologized. 🙂
This is not about race, so those of you that want to take it that level show ignorance on your behalf. White women as well as hispanic women and mixed women can be apart of the natural hair community and movement as well. The majority of naturals ruin the natural hair movement by thinking that you’re the only ones that can be natural just because you’re black. Get over yourselves. You have to make everything a dang competition. At some point you had straight hair when your original texture may have been wavy or curly no one told you that you couldn’t relax your hair because your black, so women of other races can be apart of the natural hair community. If you can’t be fine with that then that’s your problem not theirs. This is not just a black thing so stop trying to make it seem as such.
“White women as well as Hispanic women and mixed women can be apart of the natural hair community and movement as well. The majority of naturals ruin the natural hair movement by thinking that you’re the only ones that can be natural just because you’re black.”
The fundamental mistake that you and others are making to include women of other races in the ‘natural’ hair movement is interpreting the movement solely based on the term ‘natural.’ Yes, it is true, technically, anyone, regardless of race, can be ‘natural.’ In fact, the term ‘natural’ is actually an inaccurate term to describe the movement in its entirety since most women who wear their hair natural actually don’t literally wear it “naturally” (we use products on our hair, do twist-outs and use curl-formers and things like that that temporarily alter our actual curl pattern.) However, ‘natural’ is merely an umbrella term that is used to describe the movement in simple terms. The term does not completely explain, or define what the movement is ACTUALLY about.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the ‘natural’hair movement originally came about in response to the lack of the representation of black beauty in mainstream media/culture, and to revert the culturally instilled self-hate of black textured hair in the black community. That has LITTLE to do with women of other races. It’s not that the hair “struggles” of women of other races do not exist and should not be recognized, but their experience is NOT THE SAME as the experience of women in the black community. For example, most white women have never have had to endure mass societal pressure of having to chemically alter their hair, whereas in the black community it used to be a cultural tacit rule to do so (black women would be told by other blacks that they actually could not get a job in blue-collar professions if they did not relax their hair). White women also already have a plethora of representations of beauty in the media that represent them. In other words, hair in other racial communities has not been as politicized and culturally stigmatized as it has been in the black community.
The experience of women of other races with hair may be similar in some aspects to ours, but it is NOT the same. The reason why individuals who are mixed are included in the movement is because, being ‘mixed with black’ one way or another, we have experienced the social stigma of ‘blackness’ being associated with being the most far from the standard of beauty, and our ‘blackness’ being responsible for our hair not completely meeting that standard. Being mixed myself, me and most women who are mixed can assure you that we have experienced it. If white women with curly hair have experienced a mass cultural “struggle”(which I doubt is as large as the “struggle” experienced by black women with their hair, especially considering that most white women actually have straight, non-curl type hair), they should create their own movement. A movement is not just about the term that is used to define it. A movement is also about the history behind it and the reasons it was established in the first place.
Just in case people are wonder I am mixed race. The statement I made may have sounded like I was pointing the finger at black women. Instead of using “you”, I should have said us. I didn’t mean it in a rude way when I said “get over yourselves.” I felt that I spoke on the behalf of those who are targeted as not being natural simply because they are of a different race. I feel that being natural should include every race and be fair to them also, because then it seems as though they’re being discriminated against as well. Sure not all of them may understand what the natural black woman has had to endure, but I’m pretty sure they do have similar experiences. Me, being a natural hair teen, I read about the discrimination in the natural hair community, and this seems to be one of them. I feel that women of a different race feel excluded and basically that’s what’s happening. Technically speaking if they are excluded then will you not be doing what they did to black women? What I don’t understand is why we can’t all just come together as one. We all have at least one… well two; we are natural and we have curly, coily or kinky hair. Most of the “problems” seems to be coming from adults in the natural hair community. Yes I said problems, because that’s what they are. The majority of you are adult this is childish. Why do you feel the need to argue and rant about who’s allowed to be apart of it and who’s not. It’s a shame I’m a teenager and I can see this. Like really just grow up. You’re adults sure black hair was once frowned upon and by some people it still is, but that doesn’t have to defy you. It obviously isn’t as big of a problem as it was then, clear, because the majority of us are starting to wear our natural hair and accept it as is. On that note all I can say is good luck to you. To each their own.
@ Martha
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/hilariouswhiteanongif_blackkids_whitepplpretendingtobeblack.gif[/img]
If that was your way of saying I’m a white girl trapped inside of a black girl’s body then all I can say to you is grow the heck up. You’re an adult or maybe a child by the looks of this photo. Black teenager(by the way) to “adult” that shows how mature you are. Close mindedness gets you no where.
“Close mindedness gets you nowhere.” Tell that to the Whites who have always excluded and continue to exclude anyone who doesn’t look like them. (Hint: Black people don’t look like White people).
Amen. What’s funny is that all of these silly idiots think they actually have the “power” to exclude anyone from claiming anything lol…all of these ignorant behind comments have ZERO control over which woman can claim being natural. I’m pretty sure any white woman, mixed woman, whatever color woman who is currently natural will not be losing any sleep or running to grab any chemicals to put in their hair, because a bunch of bitter, black chicks are throwing temper tantrums about not being the only race with women who are indeed natural. Lol. Smh. So sad…
ROTFLMFAO. What’s sad is that you and those like you have to resort to name-calling and insults because you can’t seem to get your thick skulls out of your rectums long enough to actually think critically. Yeah. You’re not the only one who can throw around insults, sweetie.
Believe it or not, the mere fact that the natural hair movement has become as popular as it has (and has significantly influenced major companies/industries and evidently tens of thousands of non-black women) is direct testimony and proof of just HOW MUCH power Black women have. And considering how many White women are whining, flailing their arms around, and getting their panties in a bunch about their exclusion in the movement over at Naturally-Curly, CurlyNikki, Facebook, and several other social media outlets, I’d say that even THEY recognize this power. Frankly, with everything you wrote, YOU seem to be the bitter one. I wonder why. Hmmm.
*Adds another lump of sugar before proceeding to stir and sip tea*
Or like that saying goes: don’t raise your voice, improve your argument!
“Bitter black chicks.” This says everything about you and nothing about those of us who are trying so hard to explain why #teamnatural isn’t for white women.
As someone who is mixed race, I still have deep brown skin and afro-textured 4a and 4b hair and the stigmas that come with that. I am a mixed woman, I am a black woman. And as a mixed race woman of afro-descent, I’m telling you that you need to take several seats and stop using my identity for your false equivalences and ignorance. I don’t need you to defend my space in this movement with your disgusting debasement of black women as “bitter black chicks.”
So excluding white people from the natural hair community is the equivalent of killing people and destroying families and people lives, being thrown in jail for no reason, not allowed to walk in certain places and not allowed to sit on a bus or use a public restroom and being forced to live in inhuman conditions?!
Rightttttttt….
Nelson Mandela was arrested and thrown in prison for 27years for standing up against a government that was committing crimes against black South Africans and for encouraging his people to fight for freedom. When he came out of jail yes he forgave the white people and wanted to make peace with them but he never said black people should continue to submit to them and let them infiltrate every aspect of our lives forever and forever as long as both races shall live. Unless there was another speech I haven’t heard.
So no, exclusion of white people from the natural hair movement is NOT the same as apartheid (or slavery for that matter).
Now in regards to your comment about receiving acceptance from mainstream, why does acceptance into mainstream have to mean including them? Because as far as I am concerned we are not included in their mainstream. They don’t need to know my story, all they need to do is accept that this is who I am and what I look like. Explaining our stories would be a headache because I feel as though it’s one of those things you have to be part of it to understand. I tried explaining to a white girl that it was difficult for me to find foundation in my skin tone and she couldn’t understand that! Because according to her sephora has foundations in mocca and dark so I should be fine (I’m in Mac NW48 btw) After 10min of conversation I gave up cuz she still didn’t get. If I couldn’t explain something as simple makeup, imagine trying to explain the difficulties of having natural hair in this society. Because, I have said this many times already in the previous post, their curly hair which they think isn’t cute past the age of 10, is still considered more beautiful than my hair.
In my opinion, you should have left out the quote or picked a better one. ‘To be free is not merely to cast off ones chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others’. All our lives, our parents lives, our grandparents and great-grandparents lives, respect has been given to white people. We have given them the freedom to do as and what they wish mainly because of their power. When we want push back and gain an ounce of acknowledgment and respect with a community of ours which you so gladly pointed out is not that big, we are the bad ones?! Because we are pointing out that we are not the same and don’t have the same experiences, it’s the equivalent of apartheid? Even though most communities of have been able to do it and gained huge respect (Jews, Chinese, Europeans) as a result, we can’t because it’s racism (or reverse racism)?
Okay…
I will say this, your misuse of apartheid and that Nelson Mandela quote was good. Because it reminded me (and others like me) why this is important. Why African and black American leaders were fighting. It was for this, for self love and self preservation. Not to become too comfortable and forget who we are and where we came from.
I’m so agree with your comments. This article is so…dumb.
Thumbs up if you suspected someone was going to come up with a sad excuse for a counter argument.
Black women don’t own the word teamnatural so white women can use it if they want.
However the writer is actually disgusting for comparing a blog about hair to Apartheid (because the killing of children for several years is the same thing as white people not being able to be one blog… )
If for example Asian women had a website built on SLANTED EYES the discrimination they faced, the surgery they had to subject themselves to so that they can be perceived as normal and POOF a white woman comes in and talks about her slanted eyes. Do you think it is the same? Would classify the struggle as the same because they all have SLANTED EYES? I think not. The white woman enjoys white privilege built from her people subjugating others. Elle, Vogue, MarieClaire, in fact most magazines geared towards women are GEARED TOWARDS WHITE WOMEN.
I say that we dont respond to any similar blog posts to this bc the writer stated that she just wanted to cause “controversy” she doesn’t really care.
I completely agree. But, I feel it’s only a problem when Black people develop and execute groups for ourselves. We’re such a dispersed community of people that when we do gather, others peek over saying “What they got goin’ on over there?” God forbid we reestablish a strong sense of community similar to the pre-civil rights era.
First, the comparison to apartheid is SO WRONG. The whole #TeamNatural thing is not about depriving anyone of their basic human rights and social equality. You’re going in a Godwin’s Law kind of direction with that one.
If you want acceptance [by the mainstream], you need to start accepting others into your clique
Say what? I don’t think that the natural movement is about seeking acceptance from the mainstream. I don’t have time for a mainstream that doesn’t have time for me. I don’t need the mainstream (i.e. white people) to validate me. I really don’t care about white folks’ hair, I don’t need them to care about mine. I got my peoples; we good.
To me, it’s like… You’re having a family reunion at the beach, and everybody’s having a good time and all of a sudden your next door neighbour or a co-worker or something shows up univited and puts herself in the mix. And it’s not like you don’t like her or anything, but, um, why is she here? And if you tell her a lot of people are uncomfortable with her presence and she keeps coming up with reasons why she feels she has the right to be there, well then she’s just being rude and disrespectful.
I believe that the blatant displays of white privilege social media reactions of the white woman in question are what made this whole thing blow up: it was her basic lack of understanding that there is nothing that gives her the right to acceptance in every social space. Everything ain’t got to be for everybody.
Good attempt. “But, it ain’t gonna happen.”
JC, I agree with you 100%.
For the first time in a long time women who identify with being Black are having a strong, positive global connection and are creating such a beautiful community of education and love for one another. But we’re racist because we want to bask in our (sadly, but finally) new-found appreciation for what’s been controversially targeted since the diaspora: our hair. This article implying that we’re racist is a sad attempt at trying to guilt us into feeling bad for people we don’t necessarily identify with. I can’t help that I feel more compelled to the likes of a kinky haired woman over a loose, curly haired woman.
damn I really liked this site but farewell!
JC, JC, JC. Do you really believe the words you wrote? Are you really comparing black women not wanting to be inundated with images of white women in spaces created by and for black women to…apartheid?
Nobody is killing white women for being white. If you really want to compare this to apartheid (I don’t know WHY)-white women are trying to encroach on black women, so black women would be the victims as black women were here FIRST and white women are coming in acting like they belong and we need to make room for them and we’re wrong if we don’t. Which means that it’s white people with the apartheid.
I am so, so stunned at this. Like maybe I need an internet break stunned. Because, girl…you can’t be serious.
Apartheid??!? Seriously?!!? WHEN EVER was a Caucasian woman stolen from her home in the middle of the night,imprisoned, beaten to death, electrocuted, shot, or denied employment because of her frizzy hair? I’ll wait.
This is a movement that is greatly need amongst black women. Our acceptance of our natural appearance is like no other our experience cannot be shared. We were encouraged to mirror the european look to beaccepted so no i dont think our new found freedom should be shared. Tjis something we as black women finally embraced and we should be proud.
Whenever black people try to have something to call their own it’s a problem. They want everything we have. Everything black culture they want to turn into white culture. Example look at how whenever ancient Egypt is portrayed it’s some white person or other ethnicity as if blacks folks weren’t even there. Look at Rock n Roll first we had Muddy Waters, chuck Berry, etc. but Elvis is the king of Rock n Roll. They will be doing the same with hip hop soon..our children will not know public enemy or tribe called quest, they will know the bestie boys and eminem. They can buy lips, get big butts, tan but the one thing they can’t have is kinky coily hair so they have to jump on anyway they can by saying oh I’ve embraced my curly hair as if it is the same. And that statement about apartheid is ridiculous. No one is hating the white women who try’s to takeover our movement , we simply say it’s not your movement to join. White folks killed black folks of pure hatred. You know you hateful when you in someone else’s country and say we don’t want you here.
“YOU AINT GOT THE ANSWERS!”…And the author proved that in the introduction by confidently comparing apartheid to…hair. Apartheid is related to oppression and hate. When a group of “minorities” create a sector dedicated to very specific experiences that they share, it’s because they are not represented, so they do it themselves. They’re not creating support groups out of hate or intentions to oppress, but to uplift and inspire. Concepts such as apartheid tend to be the very reason why communities such as “team natural” exist among minority groups. Looser textured, non-black people are definitely natural if they don’t alter their texture. But that doesn’t threaten my experience as a kinky haired Black woman.
“YOU AINT GOT THE ANSWERS!”…And the author proved that in the introduction by confidently comparing apartheid to…hair. Apartheid is related to oppression and hate. When a group of “minorities” create a sector dedicated to very specific experiences that they share, it’s because they are not represented, so they do it themselves. They’re not creating support groups out of hate or intentions to oppress, but to uplift and inspire. Concepts such as apartheid tend to be the very reason why communities such as “team natural” exist among minority groups. Looser textured, non-black people are definitely natural if they don’t alter their texture. But that doesn’t threaten my experience as a kinky haired Black woman because it can’t be taken away from me or understood by anyone other than those that share similar experiences.
Hahahahahaha! The Kanye reference killed me! A million thumbs up.
Lol Thank you!
HOW JC?! YOU AINT BEEN DOING THE EDUCATION!
Jc, go find yourself before you tell others living the truth anything. Black people don’t have time to settle and teach others. I’m not living my life to be someone’s magical negro.
Your article ignores the reality of “post-racial America” and the history of this country that’s still implemented today. If I’m correct, do you even live here? I thought you lived in Europe; your sense of reality is far different.
Maybe you needed additional clicks to your site. But, this op-ed isn’t the way to get them.
“Magical Negro”… love it!
I appreciate the effort here but this article is a perfect example of the dangers of false equivalence. Whites and Blacks don’t occupy the same positions of power. Suggesting that if Black people do something it is racist – simply because it would be racist if a White person did it is one of the most unsophisticated and elementary forms of racial analysis out there. We really must be more discerning in our understandings of the complexities of race. Being Natural for most Black women is a CULTURAL experience – a stage of identity for many. It is not merely a TERM describing one’s current hair texture. We have to stop over simplifying our experiences. I’ve said it a million times: Black hair is not merely a brown version of White hair. We are not just brown White people. History and social constructs MATTER. As I wrote recently, “Don’t believe me? Ask Sarah (or any of your curly haired White friends) if she (or they) would rather deal with curly hair in our society as a White girl or a Black girl…go ahead. I’ll wait.”
EXCLUSION DOESNT MEAN RACISM
Black people dont have the power to be racist (prediuce yes, not racist, we are the “infereior” race remember?)
I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY WE ARE EXPLAINING THIS TO WHITE PEOPLE.
The AFRO TEXTURED NATURAL HAIR COMMUNITY IS FOR AND ONLY BLACK PEOPLE WITH AFRO TEXTURED HAIR
THE END.
I’m sick of all these white people whining like a little child who cant get the candy from the store.
Its not for you.
Get over it, go back to your privilege.
Well damn I cant spell when I’m upset!
Forgive my typos.
*sips tea*
urgh at the apartheid reference. This is a silly and far reaching article. Its very obvious that the author is trying to be an antagonist, I mean really you took the time to write this. I’m annoyed i’m commenting as it adds to the comment, people like this are not needed in the movement. Every other race has their own movements that we can all respect why cant we all celebrate and take pride in our strengths. It does not take anything away from white women when we celebrate our fros, why do they need to be included in everything. I don’t cry when they don’t make tanning products for darker skin. I just cant with this article, let us be great we don’t always have to include every tom dick and harry. There is beauty in differences, why are we ashamed of that, celebrating and being proud of them does not mean racism. I am even annoyed that she tried to add the Mandela quotes and even tried to put this in the context of apartheid, just stop please, just stop.
And not a single one of those women in that picture has a hair texture that is representative of the MAJORITY of black women.
And that picture will be EXACTLY what the natural hair movement will look like when white women take it over.
They can’t take away something that they did not give you 🙂
Your kinks and coils are yours and you’ll always have a community of women to identify with.
I have hair like the darker girl on the right, and I agree with you. I don’t think i t’s right either. I am curly but I DO think the natural hair movement should just be for black women who fall into the 4a-4c category. That WAS the original purpose of the movement in t he first place. I’m even shaking my 3a- 3b curls in disgust. 1000% bs this is just plain stupid.
yassss! one doesn’t have to have type 4 hair to be able to see that this would be bogus. i’m already disgusted that the prevailing images in marketing surrounding natural hair seem to only be of curls that look like mine, but it would be ten thousand times less diverse and inclusive if white women were permitted voices in the community. I say we leave no room for ambiguity and just call it the “black natural hair movement” since so many people wanna play dumb over “natural hair movement”, which white women weren’t cosigning on anyway until they saw US make it cool. just like every damn thing else. *grumble GRRRR*
Actually, that’s a picture from the Curls webiste (http://www.curls.biz/). IT is indicative of how companies want black women’s money, but will not use us in their ads. If they do use us, we have to be type 3. It’s a shame really. But if you look at any website geared towards “natural” hair, you’ll see the same thing. Ethnically ambiguous women with type three hair (I personally don’t believe the blonde in the picture is all white, but she is definitely ambiguous). But, most of their customers are black women with hair in the 4s. It’s taxation without representation…….or something lol.
I commend BGLH for trying to present both sides of this issue but this article just doesn’t make sense. There is a Jewish Film Festival in my neighbourhood tomorrow. I intend to go and enjoy it. I am sure I will relate to the films on many levels. However, it would be utterly ridiculous for me to suggest that they include a black film in the line up. The festival just isn’t about black movies. There is nothing racist about that. If a white women wants to read BGLH or CurlyNikki more power to her. If our discussions resonate with her, great. What she shouldn’t do is suggest that we change the conversation to be about her. The point of the movement is to discuss and overcome our real struggles. We aren’t talking about what it’s like to stop wearing buns. The real problem with being “inclusive” is that it is significant change in a very important conversation. Keeping up this critical dialogue about our hair is not even remotely racist.
I completely agree. You cannot be a part of everything and we shouldn’t let the politically correct brigade try and stop this movement or divide it as it is a bait so let’s stay united in celebrating our beautiful hair. Being natural for me is about celebrating our God given hair, hair education and sharing the journey and also discovering new brands. “)
There are definitely black Jews though (who are conveniently under-respresented and even oppressed by white Jews), so there could be a space for that, though I understand what you’re trying to say.
In the words of Malcolm X
“It’s just like when you’ve got some coffee that’s too black, which means it’s too strong. What do you do? You integrate it with cream, you make it weak. But if you pour too much cream in it, you won’t even know you ever had coffee. It used to be hot, it becomes cool. It used to be strong, it becomes weak. It used to wake you up, now it puts you to sleep.”
Let that sink in.
Yeah, so many of your articulated the problems with this article. It ignores the history of racial oppression and the social hierarchies surrounding race. Black people who want to mobilize and reclaim their ethnic features are not being racist against white people. If white people want to reclaim their features then they should do it in their own spaces. White people feel as though their viewpoint and needs should be at the CENTER of all discourse. Yet, blacks fight simply to be present in discourse let alone heard as actors with opinions. This article from JC (Natural Haven) is ridiculous and screams “reverse racism”. Nonsense.
You’re right about the website being a black one as the title does imply that, but I thought that this was white women want to be apart of team natural. The title from J.C. is misleading. If she wants to be apart of the natural hair community then yes there are other sites for hair such as naturally curly. Maybe that is where people think I went wrong when I made my earlier comment. Well I see this website specifically say BLACK girl long hair. I guess I put it the wrong way.
Yet this isn’t about just black women claiming websites. This is also about claiming the concept of “going natural”, “natural hair movement”, etc… White women can not “go natural” unless they have had to chemically (perm, heat, texlax) alter their hair to be accepted by the dominant Anglo-European culture. Going natural does not mean letting your hair out of a bun. It means dealing with the stigma of society telling you that your natural hair (and features and mere presence and blackness) is an abomination. You cannot “go natural” unless you’ve had to deal with practically no representation of someone who looks like you on television. You cannot “go natural” unless you’ve risked losing your job or fear not finding one because your hair is “wild”, “too ethnic”, or “unkempt” in its free-flowing state, whereas every other race is allowed to wear their hair in its free flowing state. You cannot “go natural” unless school administrations or state militaries rule your natural hair against dress codes, therefore banning the natural black person from spaces of education and state service.
Because of this, most white people cannot really “go natural”. If white people want to reclaim their features, like curly hair, they should do it in their own spaces. Black women go natural in their own spaces. There are also exist more neutral spaces with basic hair advice. I think the person in question on CN claimed that she went natural and framed her experiences like those of kinky-, coily-haired women. If white women want to know about black hair, they should do it as spectators. For example, I wouldn’t go to a Chinese Film Festival and complain that there are no representations of Nigerians. Yet, white entitlement leads white people to believe that their experiences: a) should be featured in black hair spaces, and b) are remotely comparable to those of black women.
And the comparison to apartheid? So off base it isn’t even funny. What’s next, comparing their so called “exclusion” to slavery?
This is ridiculous. We can’t have ANYTHING, can we? People exclude us from their spaces all the time, but God forbid we don’t sit and cry in a corner but instead make our own spaces and move on. There are so many websites for women of all backgrounds and cultures with curly hair. Why must you have this one too?
The thing is in our society pretty much every space is created for whites to the exclusion of other races, unless specified otherwise. The default is white, the beauty standard is white, and the people who hold power in this country are, for the most part, white. So when black people try to create a space that excludes white people, I don’t see that as apartheid, I see it as creating a safe space in a society where we have historically been marginalized.
(Also props to BGLH for posting both sides of the discussion)
We need to close ranks and huddle in real tight like the guys from the movie 300. You’re not getting in becky and Susan. I don’t give a damn!
Im sorry I love my sisters of other races, however why is it that we always have to involve other races in everything when we have several years of exclusion in everyway possible. You are not persecuted for your hair and told from birth that what God gave you isnt good enough. Why is it that you need to be a part of this so bad. Are we not allowed anything to ourselves?
honestly, idk. I feel like this shouldn’t be a big deal as it should be. The thing is yes black people (mixed races included) have the most varied hair pattern (as far as i know)so tips what we do for our hair can really help those who have similiar hair patterns even if they are non-black peoples. For example, i remember one white woman blogging about doing the no-poo method, and just washing her hair with water, and white commentators dogged the heck out her. I was like wow. If it works it works. But on the other hand, i dont see any problem with sites like BGLH which cater to a specific group, for w.e reasons. Doesn’t mean that it is racist, but it’s just that (esp for those with tighter hair patterns) it’s easier to find tips about that now. and maybe for now. Maybe it will all change as we grow to learn how to take care of our hair. For example, kinkier textured girls like me learning that they don’t really need heavy oils or butters. And all that information on porosity (which affects every person of every race) I say that while we can be inclusive (like bglh) or exclusive (like curlynikki) i say that there is no pain in being open to some change.
The fact that you think this is just about hair for Black people says it all. If you believe it’s simply about dead keratin sprouting from the scalp, then of course you don’t think this should be a big deal.
One commenter put it in a very simplistic but powerful statement that I sincerely hope you, and everyone else who still doesn’t (or refuses) to listen and understand, finally do.
“White women suffer WITH their hair. Black women suffer BECAUSE of their hair.”
You’re saying it’s rascist to believe blacks should where whites cannot? That’s not true and it’s not a double standard when you look at the intentions of both groups. You can’t say everyone deserves the same freedoms when there are those who would abuse it. Case in point NMLBA who would use their association to molest young boys.
Blacks in South Africa gathered to discuss how to get equal rights. Whites gathered to keep them from being free.
Natural hair movement is basically about not using the creamy crack. Whites women never used it. So they don’t belong in this group. It’s not racism it’s logic.
“if you want acceptance then you need to start accepting others into your clique”.
as a natural black woman im not looking for acceptance from anyone except myself and certainly not from the mainstream white media.us black women having predominately sites like this is for us and only us. sites like this are the only places i can come to and see my fellow black women represented and focused on. white women literally are the standard for beauty and they are the face of any cosmetic campaign on television and online, why do they want inclusion here TOO? entitlement. thats why.
I couldnt agree with you more. When the focus is not specifically on white woman/people they tend to get their panties in a bunch. As if everything is not already about them to begin with.
Im just done discussing this issue further
OMG it reminds me of posts on tumblr that will state “BLACK WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL” or something applauding black beauty and an almost always white poster will leave a comment saying “WHY IS IT JUST BLACK WOMEN, ALL WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL”.
Instant freaking rage. Some people cannot see past their own noses and it’s even more sad when black people do the same.
Amen Shakari. Those are my exact thoughts. Black women are pretty much excluded from mainstream everything (media, fashion, feminism etc), but when we want to have our own movement to uplift/encourage our unique beauty and history/share our stories WE’RE accused of not being inclusive??? Something does not add up here. I will not entertain it. Black women have been excluded from so many movements historically only to be brought in as an after thought when it was convenient. It’s time to stay focused on your own. Others can definitely share, but it is different. I truly feel as though black folks will rise up and acknowledge their own worth, beauty, power and potential one day. We just need to believe it and own it!
I do agree with you on this one. The website does say ‘black girl long hair’.
I’m going to take it as coincidence that this article was written the same week that a male writer authored an article on why Orange is the New Black should have a more fair representation of men…. pardon while I continue to play the worlds smallest violin.
LOL, more representation of men???? Puh-leeze! Yeah, I pulled out my tiny violin too.
By the way – where are the black people with afro hair on that top image??? Why is there only one black person there? And she has loose hair? It looks EXACTLY the same as ALL the other exclusive curly websites there are. So this article is void.
“This predatory knee jerk reaction fails to educate and if you ever have the opportunity to, you should educate first, condemn last.”
It is not our duty to educate white women on their hair. We are not their nannies, caregivers, or mammies. It is not any black person’s duty to do the work in educating them, while they sit back and benefit from a movement that has already been built on our backs.
It is not our duty as a historically marginalized group, to democratize our spaces while they remain steadfast in privatizing theirs.
It is not our duty to allow our movement to be derailed by women with curly “struggles”, only to further allow the marginalization of coily and kinky haired women. Stand idly by and allow this theoretical gentrification to happen because you think it will result in racial harmony. Watch where that leaves you. They will come in singing peace and kumbaya, while simultaneously ushering us out. Just take a look at the hilarious picture chosen for this article. Erasure is happening already. Like clockwork.
It is not our duty to be the concierge for their inclusion while we are still fighting our own oppression.
We do not exist in service to them.
**Note: To liken this opposition to apartheid, is to effectually dabble in ahistorical ignorance which is opposite of reality.
Also, be very careful about the language used in describing our resistance. We are not “predators” and our reaction is not “predatory”. You think you are being open minded and “othering” yourself in this conversation, but they will turn it around and use that very same language against you when it’s convenient. Stop promoting the nonsensical notion that black people cannot resist, protest, or maintain their position in a discussion without being viewed as angry predators.
MASSIVE ROUND OF APPLAUSE to your last paragraph. I hope JC and others with her viewpoint read comments on here and ponder on them. Noone’s forcing them to change their minds but just try to understand where we are coming from.
Amen! *applause*
Upon observing the picture related to this post, I can’t help but notice who the center of attention falls upon. It sure as hell ain’t “Chilli” (lol). This is how it’s always portrayed in the media. The white girl, front and center and the black girl, off by the wayside. Can we PLEASE have something for ourselves??? PLEASE?
I have white friends, one in particular, whose hairs is gorgeous! It’s dark and curly, but she understands that we (blacks) have two different struggles when it comes to our hair. So does my Hispanic friends whose hair types are naturally curly (by the way, they straighten theirs and rarely ever wear it curly). They know that we as black women have our own struggles when it comes to OUR hair, and they are not trying to crash OUR party. I wish that other NON-BLACKS would do the same.
This it OUR MOVEMENT of self-love and self-acceptance of who we are as a people. BEAUTIFUL, BOLD, DARK AND LOVELY. Our KINKY, COILY, & CURLY, hair is NO LESS
than that. Our NATURAL HAIRED sisterhood is just that… A sisterhood. Let’s keep it that way.
All 3 of the people she mentioned in the ‘3. Practice what you preach’ section were black…that kinda proves the point showing about this being almost a black thing. It’s in our experiences not white peoples. I understand that we could be resources to those who have children with kinky or curly hair but if white women want acceptance of their own hair why don’t they start in their communities first? Why can’t they email their magazines or blog about it like most of the natural hair people did? They have mainstream media. They did this with the ‘stop photoshopping’ campaign for magazines. Why can’t they do it with hair? Chocolate hair vanilla care( she is a white mother with a black daughter) started a blog about doing her adopted daughters hair. She learned how to cornrow, twist, properly detangle, and everything. I think its a wonderful blog. Part of me does feel like black women will get no credit or have everything snatched from our hands by white women when it does become mainstream.
“chocolate hair vanilla care(she is a white mother with a black daughter)” you AIN’T never gonna see a BLACK family adopting a white child in America…the agencies will not allow it(i…but you will see vice versa though…it is ok to have white women and non-back women apart of #teamnatural because it is for everyone…but why is it SO hard for BLACK women with kinks, naps and ebony skin to get into mainstream? I mean 2014 and Lupita is now getting Lancome? I mean dang is it every 20-30 years we gonna see this?! One per 20 years? Ok, um REALLY? keep drinking the juice
This picture for this post is case and point as to why #teamnatural should stay within the black community. No kinks? No coils? No naps? Not a chocolate skinned G in sight!
NO BUENO!!
#byefelicia
Exactly. I’m disengaging; this is a bait article. I’ve spoken my peace; I’ve explained my views and addressed everything in this article already (and so have most of you other brilliant ladies). I don’t need high BP from fighting trolls. Try again, BGLH.
In the words of Simon Cowell (and all the other women in the last thread):
“It’s a NO from me.”
Bait article is worth the amazing replies on here that break down what’s really happening here. History always repeats itself if we let it but many people (whites and some black folks) are conveniently looking at the surface and having knee jerk reactions.
We aren’t just making this issue complex out of thin air, IT IS REALITY whether you want to accept it or not!!!
I agree. But what can we expect? In school you’re taught to behave and follow directions, not think critically lol I got straight A’s in high school not cause I’m a genius, I just didn’t cause trouble and followed directions. My AP US History teacher bumped me from a B+ to an A+ when I asked him to, literally just because I never gave attitude (yes, he said this!). I peeped that ish and kept it up for 4 years, but sorry #NewBlacks, the real world don’t work that way (as I learned in undergrad lol) don’t play yourself. You can kiss their butts all you want, but we all know what happens when we let others into our space, don’t play duuumbb!
LOL! This made me spit up my water.
I was about to say the exact same thing!
I don’t hate other races and i do like seeing other races share their features on natural hair sites. BUT, I’m just saying, other races need to include blacks on their sites too. No, i don’t want biracial people to feel excluded and yes i would like white women to be featured and to be able to reach out to naturals for help and get it. But a lot of times, whites carry on things that blacks have done for years and make it seem like it’s theirs and theirs only( see the Kendall Jenner cornrow controversy ) while excluding blacks and not giving them any credit whatsoever. I don’t want that to happen in this case. Biracial people can identify as blacks if they want to. If they’re proud of it, then why not? Let’s not exclude them or whites from our sites but at the same time, let’s raise awareness to the discrimination and unfair treatment that’s been directed at blacks for years so that it can end once and for all. We are strong, we can do this. We fought for the right to wear our hair how God gave it to us at a time when natural hair was seen as unkempt and ugly but we won and proved them wrong. Remember the case of the school that had two proms; one for the whites( which was well-funded and which excluded all black students ) and another for the blacks( which was poorly funded but allowed any white students that went to it ). We can stop such things! let’s work together.
Exactly what I’m to say. People think that I’m following behind the white woman because of my comment when I clearly said women of all races. There’s more than just the white woman and last time I checked all was plural meaning more than one, so thank you. 🙂
A white person getting their feelings hurt because they can’t have everything isn’t the same as racial segregation.
” Let’s not exclude them or whites from our sites but at the same time, let’s raise awareness to the discrimination and unfair treatment that’s been directed at blacks for years so that it can end once and for all.”
*Sigh*
Whites don’t need awareness on discrimination and unfair treatment of minorities, Jacky. They KNOW that it happens. You wanna know HOW they know? Because THEY’RE the ones who practice it. That’s how.
I’m going to assume that you are fairly young (perhaps a teenager) but I apologize in advance if I presume incorrectly. I say this not as an insult, but because from everything you’ve said (the segment I highlighted above and your overall post), you are obviously still very naive and overly optimistic when it comes to racial issues and Whites.
I recognize that optimism in you because that was ME up until my freshman year of college. I sometimes look back at my younger self and just shake my head, feeling bad for others who are in that place now because I know the kind of disappointment and sadness they will feel once they get the reality check I know is coming.
Six mind-boggling and eye-opening years later, and I see things for what they are, not for what I want them to be. I say this as shade-free and honest advice, one Black sister to another: Do NOT project your own open-mindedness and hospitality on to the average White American or European. They are NOT as open-minded and welcoming as you and they are not interested in being (even the ones who claim to be liberal and progressive in their thinking). That’s their CHOICE, one they have made and continue to make as we speak/type, and there’s nothing that you, I, or anyone else can do to change that. Let it go.
I suggest you focus your efforts and energy on the group of people like yourself who have been marginalized (Blacks) so that we can eventually make it so that Black proms and other events for Blacks are well funded by us ourselves, because as much as you would like to hope for the contrary, Whites sure as hell won’t help out or do it FOR us.
Ladies, white women are trolling us. We’ve said our piece on them not being in our house, so this stuff needs to not gain any more traction. All it is doing is getting them hits, acknowledgment, and exposure that they sure as hell don’t need. Stop going on twitter, facebook, etc. arguing with them and their misguided supporters. A lot of intelligent, eloquent posts have been made about this. If they still don’t get it, just leave them in their privileged bubble, and leave the black people supporting this on their kumbaya trains. Let’s let this die.
We are not going to give them and their nonsense anymore shine.
I agree today makes my last post on this issue. It’s exhausting and if they don’t get it by now that means that they just don’t want to. Girl Bye!
Interestingly (and horrifyingly) enough, this is what Sarah, the girl in the original CN article posted on FB, this needs to be spread around:
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/comment.png[/img]
Going into ethnic spaces to thrash around and piss people off is the epitome of whiteness.
I honestly thought BGLH was better than this. But to see them join hand in hand with white women to attack BW for standing up for ourselves is absolutely disgusting. In fact, this is far worse than what Curly Nikki did. Too use the system of Apartheid, under which black men, women, and children, were tortured and murdered, as being synonymous with white women getting their feelings hurt because they can’t have what they want, is as absolutely sick.
I think team natural belongs to everyone who is natural no matter the race, no matter the context. But I think what people are expressing is that Latinos have their pages, Asians, Have their pages, Caucasians have theirs, Middle Easterners have theirs and so on and so forth. We as a people just want a place to kind of call our own. I feel for the people who have black children and they are not black or have a child with curly/kinky hair that may be Latin, Caucasian whatever and just need a little guidance on what to use to tame their kids or even their own hair. So people try to go with an avenue where they can relate and it may happen to be our page. That’s awesome they can relate to us on some level. We shouldn’t attack them we should give them the advice and keep on moving, but with that being said, its not a bad thing to have something for ourselves when everyone else does. We don’t really have our own holiday. We have Kwanza, but not many people celebrate it (It’s not Cinco de Mayo or even Chinese or Persian New year), we have black history month (shortest month in the year), we have black planet, the list goes on and on about what we have started that kind of is no longer for us or isn’t celebrated the way other cultures celebrate their or are celebrated.
For me I’m all about educating and mingling. I am a mix bag myself and its hard for me to belong anywhere because I’m not 100% anything. When I was little I wanted to compete in the pow wow dance competitions. I’m half Indigenous American and I felt that I should be able to compete, but they did not because I was mixed and I didn’t grow up on the reservation like the other kids, I didn’t even speak the language. I could do the group dancing when they invited people to dance, but I was a no no for the competition. Now that I’m older I understand, but I wish I could have done it. My friend that I have literally known for most of my life had her Quince. I was not allowed to be in her court because I wasn’t Latina (though threw birth certificate I am Spaniard and through my lineage I’m Spaniard)and I wasn’t catholic. I didn’t cry about how they have to let me be apart of it cause I’ve known her this long and what not. I understood it was something just for them and I let it go.
One thing that I have learned (especially when I joined the military)is that people were willing to teach me, or tell me their traditions, or why they do what they do etc. and it helped me understand people better and who they are as a people. The best you can do if you really want to mix and mingle is to start your own page where everyone is welcomed. Don’t try and change these forums that were meant for something else to all of a sudden about face and be something else. Just do it your self. I’m sure it will be a great success.
Sorry that I rambled.
Not sure you got so many down posts.
It’s obvious from these discussions people can’t read.
Latin@s can also be black. Latin@ is not a race. There are black, Asian, white, mixed race, Middle Eastern Latin@s.
In fact, in the world we live in, there are more black Latin@s than there are black English-speaking North Americans. Brazil has the largest black population outside of Nigeria and the South American continent has the largest black population outside of Africa.
Colonisers brought many slaves to South America in order to cultivate the land–more slaves than were brought to North America.
The lack of education about what Latin@ means plus the lack of representation for black Latin@s in the mainstream has caused this confusion. This is why we need places that are for black people or rather people of Afro-descent (however you identify), so that we can learn about ourselves and each other apart from whiteness. The fact that people seem to think most Latin@s have light skin and silky straight hair is a problem.
Took the words right out of my mouth!
You’re right! South America was once connected to Africa, and they are going to drift back together again, due to the tectonic-plate shifting. IF you look at a map from 100’s of years ago, it looked totally different than today’s modern map. Either way, it was obviously easier, at one point, for invaders to transport slaves to South America.
I think as an ‘older’ person reading the above, I can’t help but think that younger people are buying into this whole reverse racism thing. I have never met a ‘black’ person who has been conditioned to HATE others, look down on others, or have the POWER to affect someone else’s existence due to their racist views . The ideal of ‘race’ and racial categories were made up by Europeans and is ingrained in their culture (not blaming them for this). I think it would be informative for a young black person to not only study African history but study European history as well, it very enlightening. If ‘black’ people were to disappear or at least never complain about the way they are treated, I am sure the majority ‘white’ population would not take issue with it. Natural hair sites were created because ‘mainstream’ media or salons do not take interest in a certain hair type and also because people did not know that there were different ways to care for a certain hair type. In my opinion, natural hair forums have been open to anyone who chooses to post an opinion. But, let’s not pretend that all curlies have the same stigma when it comes to their hair, because we simply don’t and the comparison in just unrealistic.
If they did study African and European history they would be shocked to discover before the Europeans worked out stealing of both produce and people would get them what they wanted, they happily traded with many African areas.
I say areas because African countries were drawn on a map by Europeans.
Thank you. I don’t think there are enough Africans who truly know what went on in their countries during colonial times. We black people in the global sense need to start educating ourselves on real history and not the tainted history.
Thank you!! Noone knows what struggles other people have faced. Someone can be mixed race with a white skin tone but with kinky hair. It is ignorant to exclude them from ‘team natural’. The most important thing about the hair movement to me was about enlightening women to look after their natural hair and not to sucuumb to the pressures of straightening their hair by the media. The movement shouldn’t create barriers.
The term ‘natural hair for black women’ to me that makes more sense than team natural. team natural is an ambiguous term
It’s cool.
Consider your membership revoked. You can’t sit with us anymore.
You can’t demand inclusion in a movement and tell the people who created it (Black women to inclue: AA and Afro-Latinas), what the “true intent and meaning” of it is.
#teamnatural, Natural Hair, and the Natural Hair movement had a singular target audience–Black women. WE don’t need to change a damn thing. It makes perfect sense.
Google #teamnatural, Natural Hair, and the Natural Hair movement… tell me how many non-blacks you see in the results. Go on, I’ll wait.
The word teamnatural doesnt explicitly mean natural hair for black women, people have a right to interpret it however they wish.
I dont care about my ‘membership’ with teamnatural, I dont need to feel so strongly about a movement to give myself a sense of belonging.
I’m african and live in the UK. My mentality is obviously different to that of african americans, and I just don’t understand this over the top reaction to white women considering themselves as natural. Anyone can call themselves natural and heck team natural.
You know what I’ve noticed in all of this? The Black women that seem to be caping so hard for including White women in the NHM? All of direct East African, Nigerian, or British African descent. I wonder what it is about being across the pond that makes you stop being empathetic to the struggles of other Black people. Maybe it’s because they’re not as far removed from colonialism. Or maybe it incenses them that we’re so comfortable talking and ranting about issues they’re too uptight to even mention. Or maybe it’s that because they haven’t faced what AA’s have in their own respective locations, they’re unwilling to admit that our experiences are real and valid. Perhaps it’s all of the above.
I had mad respect for Jc before this…
Roo was derailing on CN. Be gone!
Too, this isn’t just about hair but a self identity crisis among Black women globally. There’s a real deeply ingrained psychological reason, passed down from generation to generation, as to why Black women globally relaxed their hair. Black aesthetics were globally considered unattractive. This is the reason for the movement, not the hash tag, the movement. To uplift those around the world, who realized we have been practicing a form of self-hate. Not that we hate ourselves but we woke up and realized something wasn’t right about our mothers not having the knowledge to care for our natural hair. There is something very wrong with that. Yes white women can be “natural” but not a part of the natural hair movement because it has nothing to do with a generational psyche passed down.
It doesn’t matter that you live in the UK. Your mentality is different cause you choose not to educate yourself and are in denial. Please don’t imply that all black people who live in the UK have the same mentality as yourself because it is not so. The hang ups we have here regarding hair, and i’m talking mainly people from African Caribbean background are not so intense as in America but we still have a long way to go in accepting our beauty and self worth against the European’s. Please try and check out a film called ‘Beauty is..’ made by community educator and guerrilla film maker Toyin Agbetu. He asks ‘what is beauty? and examines the answer from a philosophical position through discussions on hair, skin shade, body image and character’. Do you see in the UK how people of different race, cultures etc have set up their own communities, do you see them including black people? No, but we are happy to go and support their businesses while they mock us and generally show dislike towards us but we don’t seem to mind that. It’s ok when they behave in this way, though when it comes to us trying to serve our own we’re met with all kinds of hostility and called racist.
The time to wake up has past it’s sell by date but it it is never too late.
No, Dananana- there are a few idiots like Roo and Temi. The majority of us Africans get it, know it, and live it. Don’t make that mistake.
“The movement shouldn’t create barriers.”
I’m going to stop you right there. This movement was created BECAUSE, historically and currently, WHITES have been and are the ones who created and continue to create barriers for Blacks. You want to talk about exclusion? *Chuckles* Go talk to any White magazine editors, film producers, and network execs and ask them why they don’t include and CORRECTLY represent you and other Black people in THEIR magazines, shows, feature films, and other media outlets. Go on, ask them. Don’t be shy.
Smh. For f**k’s sake, there is NOTHING WRONG with wanting to preserve a space that not only features, but CELEBRATES your unique aesthetics and experience and those of others like you, and does so in an honest way. Especially when, we’re cast out everywhere else, and most especially since WE’RE the ones who created and promoted this movement to begin with! It was created to uplift US, by US!
Who is “US”, you ask? (if you haven’t already gotten it by now). “US” is Black women (especially) and men, with the former being the MOST marginalized group on this green planet for no other reason than simply existing.
Jesus, it still floors me that some people still don’t seem to understand this!!! Do some of you REALLY live here on Earth? #MyGawd
I’m really disappointed that you kicked off with the biggest false equivalence ever. First and foremost, defining racism has already been well discussed at the other post but lets get this straight; racism is about a race using their power and privilege to oppress other races. In America this is resoundingly for White people and sometimes people with White people status.
Secondly, BGLH came on here and said White women are welcome to observe and listen. That is certainly not what Waterlily716 or other White women who chose to comment did. What they wanted to do is what you are doing; communicate how wrong and stupid are thinking is. This is such an old story that keeps happening again and again; your article is gaslighting Black people. You are presenting false information that shows no acknowledgement of the sordid history of race in this country and you are trying to make us doubt our own perception of this situation.
As far as practicing what we preach, I think many of the Black woman are doing just that! We are creating a space to accept and embrace our hair when historically it has been NOT accepted by society or even our own culture.
White people are the denominate culture in America thus creating a sort of non culture where individualism and frankly selfishness are the standard. They selfishly use the media to only present their stories and ignore other cultures. I’ve said this before White privilege breeds laziness and a callousness that I want no part in. I think as our society becomes more and more global and interracial we are going to start having the tough discussion of what White is and what Black in this country. It’s going to become a story about people who choose to oppress with their privilege (no matter their race) and people who chose to stand up against oppression and check their privilege. White women are oppressing what they are calling “Inclusion” on us when there was by no means exclusion happening. The topic is natural Black hair, if those White women want to observe and listen to educated, great! But what they shouldn’t do is expect us to start writing about their hair or appropriate our monikers and twist the meaning into representing them. I’m all for White allies in the cause for calling out oppression and helping change that but they are doing that by throwing around their curly hair. They can do that by going to work and evaluating their hair policies of “professionalism” and see if they are possibly oppressing their Black coworkers. They can do so much more than coming on here and telling us how exclusive and reverse racist (does not exist) we are. You can do more.
You need to do some very deep research on the history of race relations in America to understand where many of the women are coming from with creating a safe space for us to discuss the cultural significance of our hair. Really what harm do you think there is in that? And lastly, the image you presented…I’m sincerely shaking my head because it is the light skin/smooth curly look that is presented time and time again. I’m a light skin woman and I can see that! I mean seriously could you not find a photo that actually represents dark skin women and coarse/afro textured women? How is that photo above for everyone in the natural hair community? It isn’t even for most of us. Come on now, you had to have realized that as your blog has focused on 4C type hair often. And if your argument boils down to “It’s hard to find…” then you need to think why that is. Hmm, maybe it is because we don’t have fair representation which is a reason why we created safe spaces for ourselves.
This article was misguided and I know you are someone who prides themselves as an intelligent/analytical person and you didn’t mean any harm but please really pause, read through all the comments on the article and also this one, and go do your research on the history of race in America…and yeah, I know there are more countries in the world but seriously there is no denying that Black Americans have been pioneers when it comes to ciivl rights and race relations and this is an American based website.
Please Jc don’t shut off your mind and not listen. What you really need to do is entertain that what so many of the us Black women are saying as TRUE. What if it is all true what evidence would there need to exist to support our statements? Now go look for that evidence and start to get educated.
Not one of those women in the picture at the beginning of the article have hair like mine.
Well… When I think of a black person’s hair, I think of course, curly, dense and curly or any combination of the above. Many black women (and some men) have been straightening or straight-weaving their hair because of the straight-hair trend that affects all races in a few cultures, but the main underlying reason is that non-straight hair on a black person is related to the old-time belief that Caucasian features (face structure, hair, skin tone) are more valuable. I don’t believe that many non black races can relate to the dark underlying reason. Rather, they relate to the reason involving ‘trend’ and popularity.
I think you should stick to science articles
Lmao at this post!!
Do you guys see this? THIS IS WHY. THIS. IS. WHY. This article right here proved EVERY SINGLE POINT I made in the last post. They. Do. Not. Care. To. LISTEN! They just want to speak over everybody and have their opinion held most high, just like in every other aspect of society. me, me, me. I bet this girl didn’t read or think about AANYTHING we’ve been saying! SHE DOES’NT EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT THE MOVEMENT GOES DEEPER THAN “I LOVE MEEEE”
Girl, where did anyone say non-Black curlies NEVER suffered?
Where did we say you can’t enjoy the info? Where??
DOES SWAY HAVE THE ANSWERS?
All she/they see(s) is “boo-hoo these mean Black girls won’t let us into their club!”
I can’t. Tell you what, when I see yall consistently advocating for representation of Black natural hair in predominantly white/loosely curly hair, then we can talk. Until then, and I say this with love,
Stay. In. Your. Lane.
And, if by some chance you are Black, Chhiii…
she is black and she regularly posts articles for BGLH
…Then she don’t love herself/her people. But I’m sleep.
JC isn’t from the US and she should have made that very clear in her posts.
…That’s even worse. She REALLY needs to stay in her lane then. You don’t see my ass trivializing the LGBT rights movement because “I could draw in the 3rd grade so I thought I was gay for like 2 seconds” (geeett it?? I know I’m lame lol)
Whether she is from the States is irrelevant in this context. It’s not about being from the US or not.
It’s about not spreading and glorifying ignorance, especially to the degree Jc so clearly is. There are several African women (including other Kenyan women like herself) and other non-American Black women who have commented on here and also agree that this article is complete and utter horse shit. (No offense to horses).
OMG i just can’t believe she just compared this whole #teamnatural thing to Apartheid.I am a South African and im so disappointed. Please read up about what Apartheid was and what it did to S.Africans of color. It was not a hair thing!
The picture of this article before you click the link is exactly what will happen to the face of the movement when we let white women and others co-opt it. We all know this, because this has historically happened to us over and over again because we are too nice; even though we never see whites and other races make their avenues for “everyone”. Via these comments on BGLH, I am happy to see that their are a lot of black women who know their history and aren’t falling for this charade.
I would like to have seen a 4bc girl in the picture but I guess she was excluded. Oh yea, she came to BGLH. That picture says it all, we want to support you but not all the way. We will still pick out of your blackness what’s most desirable. Loose curls.
If this conversation was about #teamkinkyhair, I wonder would they want to be associated with it? Would this article have been written? Would they really want their loose curls associated with the word kinky? But they got fooled by the word “Natural” , and did not understand it had a deeper meaning thus came #teamnatural. Now roll that off yor tongue natural, say kinky. Lol
RE: If this conversation was about #teamkinkyhair, I wonder would they want to be associated with it? Would this article have been written?
Yes and Yes! There are white women who believe they have kinky hair.
I do like #TeamKinkyHair! #TeamAfroTexturedHair Anything that points to the fact that this is exclusive to women of African descent
Again, I wouldn’t be angry if a white mother or father wanted to get on here or any black hair forum and ask questions pertaining to their black child’s hair. However, if they themselves wanted to ask questions about their own hair or be apart of the community, that’s where I wouldn’t agree.
You can look through articles and learn about black hair. I as a 14 year can read a textbook without having to join in the class. Especially, if that class does not pertain to me.
Finally, let’s be real, why would other people see us as more than a novelty, zoo animal, or circus act? Just because people want to go to these events to see animals or performance, doesn’t mean they want to understand and educate themselves more than reading the plaque of info on display for them. They certainly are going to jump in to the ring and try and connect with what they view as just a sight to see.
Not to say we black women are animals or performers, but how interested are white people genuinely in our hair? Someone that was would take the time to learn before trying to shove themselves in a community run by us. What waterlily716 did wrong was that if she had really liked curlynikki as much as she said, she would have known that it was a primarily black hair site. You would hope that all that love for that site would have allowed her to pick up some actual info on black hair. However, she never stated in any responses that she was interested in our hair or in learning in our hair. She mainly wanted to be included probably after reading articles that only featured looser curl or non-black women. For this reason, other women should NOT be apart of our communities until they stop thinking only for themselves and genuinely want to learn.
I think you know the answer to this. In my opinion, it’s about where your issue stem from, deep down. The only real thing I think all naturals in the natural hair community share is that throughout US history, Afro-Textured hair has been hated simply because it signifies Blackness. The direct reason why you’ve embraced your natural may be different (I went natural because I found relaxers time consuming and painful), but I think we all share this one characteristic.
The white girl featured cannot relate to this, which is why she doesn’t belong. If she gets hate for her hair, this is not the reason behind it.
… did you copy and paste my post from the last article lmfao
Holy smokes! I just read the article and this person definitely did copy and paste your response.
yah, I did, I saw that it was a really valid point and something that I wanted the authour of this article to see. But I didn’t think you would write the same thing twice. It wasn’t until I clicked send that I realized that I should have given you credit but when I went back to look I couldn’t find you. But anyways, Im so sorry
ehh I ain’t mad atcha. I guess it is relevant 🙂
Community is important and we as black people have historically welcomed everybody into our communities, where has that led us?
We NEED our space, we do not need AFFIRMATION from anybody most definitely NOT white people who are the cause of most of the issues we have in the first place.
Saying that does not mean I’m racist, it’s saying that I’m GOOD ENOUGH and do not need anybody’s validation to accept myself and my black brethren
Right on! Preach sister!
You let them in and they push you out OF YOUR OWN SPACE!, that’s just wrong…
You better preach.
Black Nerd Lover, T.C., CherryBomb, Puff and so many others on this post and the previous:
THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! Much love! For real. Warmest Hugs Ladies!
And J.C.:
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/dianaross_contemptanddisdain.gif[/img]
OMG, I laughed soooo hard!!
AMEN!!
The second point I just can’t
Excluding white people from the movement doesn’t mean that they can’t still learn. I have a white friend that I’ve given tips on how to care for her hair similar to how I do. I am carrying the practices that I’ve learnt from the movement to someone another race. But my white friend wouldn’t then proceed to say that she is a part of the natural hair movement, she is still excluded but is still learning
To say that they can realate to our experience is a lie. For centuries did they have to deal with the ridicule of not having white skin. You can try all you want to find a way to equalize their discrimination to ours but at the end of the day when you put a white girl with curly hair in a room with a black girl with curly hair who are you think people are gonna like more/bother less. The black girl will get questions/comments like “Is that weave?” “Are you mixed? You must be mixed because black people can’t grow hair like that.” Then the stranger will start touching her hair and later reply with “It’s softer then I expected it to be. Do you even wash your hair?” While the white girl will get a simple “How do you get your hair like that?” and maybe the stranger will touch it, but that’s it. White girls probably got teased about their hair and that’s about it, while what black girl does with her hair and body always has a statement wether it’s meant to be political or not behind it.
Black people are so open to letting others into our movements, but at the end of the day you know a white person wouldn’t do the same for us (maybe include that one token person who just happens to be biracial). Before we let a white person into our movement why don’t they show more colored girls on TV, in magazines and runways. I don’t mind a white girl claiming natural as long as she knows the reason for it and why so many black girls are invovled in it. Many won’t though because they’ll try to make the movement all about them and then ‘Columbus’ it as if they created it. Heck a curly girl website said that the discrimination and racism colored people say to face in modern day are only “claims” when we know that they are truths.
In my opinion as long as you are a African descent then you can join the natural hair movement. Meaning biracials and Afro Latinas. At the end of the day a white girl has a lot of platforms to express her opinion without being labeled “angry” while a black girl is often tuned out. When I was a kid I remember seeing magazines that had articles written about curly hair for white people while there was none for black people besides what weave/relaxer to wear.
I agree! Especially with those parts about where they would “Columbus” it and about including that one token person who happens to be biracial. It happens even today, you see it in advertisements, magazines, even the picture used for this article, etc eg. Seven or eight females in an advert, only one is black( if they choose to add a black at all ) and this is after we grumbled and complained for years about how we were being discriminated( then they finally started adding just one or two black people in a sea of whites ). Why should we have to go down a road that the whites won’t follow? and a road which continues the annoying presumption that black is unwanted and undesirable too? When the whites learn and finally start practicing a little something called “equality”, then we can call this issue about excluding whites unfair.
when will black people stop prostituting ourselves for nickels. why do we give and let everyone take from us when deep down we know we will just get a slap in the face in return.
One thing that I have learned in the last week is that people–black, white, whatever–generally do NOT understand what racism actually entails.
Racism, particularly in the United States, requires prejudice plus (and this is the key word here) POWER. Racism is a cultural, social, and INSTITUTIONAL phenomenon. I, as a Black woman, do not have the cultural cache in this country (and I doubt anywhere else, really) to enforce my own standards of beauty and apply them to all others in such a way that anyone who does not conform to *my* standard is automatically considered to be ugly by the rest of society. I do not have the power to be a racist, to wield my prejudice so that it truly affects the well-being of others, so that people who are not Black remain uneducated and poor, struggling to have a “normal” life. I DO NOT HAVE THAT POWER. Thus, I cannot be a racist. Really, this is something I learned in Sociology 101. Can I be prejudiced? Sure. Biased? Absolutely. But Black people will likely never garner sufficient power to be considered racists.
Quite frankly, I don’t really care that curly hair is “not cute past the age of 10” for white people. A white woman being told that her hair is not cute is NOT equivalent to my employer telling a co-worker that I better do something with my nappy ass hair. Her struggle is not my struggle. It’s just not, I don’t care how many Mandela quotes are thrown at me.
If other ethnic groups are worried about the team natural element why not say team natural before the Black community. Why have anything to say about it now?
*Sigh*
1. By the logic in your first sentence, here are a few things that are apartheid:
The Congressional Black Caucus in American Congress
The National Association of the Advancement of Colored People
Clutch Magazine
Ebony Magazine
The Black Girls Rock Organization
Black Girls Run
Black Girls Code
Black Girl with Long Hair
Oprah’s Legends Ball
Essence Magazine’s Annual Black Women in Hollywood Luncheon
President Obama’s “My Brother’s Keeper” Initiative
Initiative to support black businesses
The vast amount of natural hair companies that, yes, have multi-racial customers, but were built and continue to run with the black woman’s hair experience in mind
You might not realize it Jc but what you’re saying is so SO dangerous. You are comparing a historically disadvantaged community organizing to build and support itself… with apartheid. If that is your starting point there is not much else I can say… but I will.
2. From what I’ve gathered, the issue is not the degree to which white women can relate to feeling uncomfortable with their hair. We are women, we have all felt uncomfortable with our hair at some point. The issue is *representation* within this community. I think the point comes down simply to this — white women (straight and curly haired) have many outlets for representation, to see women who look like them, to discuss hair. Black women, by contrast, have very FEW outlets for representation. So when communities are created to REPRESENT black women, it doesn’t make sense that our duty should be to prioritize representing others.
3. All the white people who have been featured on BGLH — and who you reference there — were done in context to their RELATIONSHIP to a black person. So the Dad combing his daughter’s hair wasn’t a white Dad just on the blog alone. He had a BLACK daughter whose hair he was combing. Same thing for the white mom. There was CONTEXT. That’s different than just plucking a random white curly haired chick off the street and presenting her as a style icon.
4. “Natural hair is not mainstream despite the explosion of the natural world and in all honesty it is not going to be unless we begin to tell our stories to the mainstream which happens to be white if you live in North America and Europe. If you want acceptance, you need to start accepting others into your clique otherwise why should they care about your stories, how would they see their poignancy and relevance?”
Wow I can’t BEGIN with how misguided this statement is!
You know some things from black culture that are mainstream? Rap, hip hop, jazz, urban clothing brands, Barack and Michelle Obama (hehe), Beyonce, a myriad of dance trends, chicken and waffles, Lupita Nyong’o and the list goes on. White/mainstream’s culture KNOWLEDGE of these trends and people — who came out of a Black experience — has NOT… Let me repeat… has NOT benefitted us in ANY. KIND. OF. WAY.
Let’s be clear — mainstream culture IS aware of black culture. Look at ALL the news segments on natural hair, ALL the coverage that has happened. White people KNOW more than we think they know — but the Army still passed regulations against twists and cornrows a few months back, didn’t they? Even *after* they met with black women to discuss their ruling.
The best thing that we can do as black folks is build our community, organize ourselves and support ourselves.
For example, when BGLH covered that story of the school that banned afro puffs, we as readers were the ones who called into the school, turned the incident into a national story, and got the rule repealed. WE did that. White people did not do that for us.
I get that we live in a multi-racial society. But relying on the benevolence of white people really hasn’t worked for any culture before. Yes, there are progressive white folks who are down for the cause. I’m sure you’re married to one. But for any one group of people to hitch their future on the benevolence of another… I mean, that’s just not strategic or smart. (Ask Native Americans how that worked out for them…)
OMG PREACH PREACH PREACH!!!! As black people I think we have our minds focused on integration integration integration. We have the power to build ourselves, support ourselves, create future generations that won’t internalize the self-hate that has been passed down to us for so many generations. That’s what white people DON’T have to do. That is what makes our experience different, and you’re right those white parent’s stories were relevant because of context. Loving who we are as black people (all shades, textures, racially mixed or not) is OKAY! IT IS ALLOWED! It doesn’t make us racist for wanting to embrace who we are! They do see us as different and that’s okay, and I’m someone who has/does date interracially I have a diverse group of friends, but there is always that part of me that keeps things about my blackness exclusive because THEY JUST DON’T GET IT because THEY DON’T HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT! But we do and we need a safe place to figure things out for ourselves.
Drops the Mike and walks away! Oh how I love those who speak truth to power!!
JC lives in the UK and is from Kenya. Kenya was colonised by the British. The British ruled every colony differently.
Her experience is different from yours.
Sorry but I’m from Ghana, which was also colonised by the British and I too live in the UK but I still disagree vehemently with JC’s article. I may not be African American but I can still empathise with their experiences. Yes my family and I have not really been impacted by slavery, but as long as people keep asking why I don’t have my hair relaxed, my mum keeps believing that ‘our type’ of hair shouldn’t be left out and someone grabs my hair and immediately exclaims ‘it’s hard’, then the natural hair movement is still needed for black women.
I’m from kenya and the British were no different than any other coliniser. If anything they perfected apartheid in kenya and other colinies. Kenya is still a mess and kenyan women still shun their natural hair, believe being dark skinned is less desirable, that anything foreign Is always better. Kenyans are still extremely colonized and will treat white people like GODS in their own country while looking down on their own. The closer to being white or foreign( white) the better you are. So I’m not surprised she’s arguing for white women rather than her own people. I’m not saying all Kenyans are like this but the majority are.
I’m from Zimbabwe – also a former British colony – and I find this article really dumb. We may not have experienced slavery as Black Americans did, but I can tell you right away that White Privilege is universal.
I’m form a country colonised by the British. My country is wrecked because of the British. Skin bleaching is rampant because of the British. Don’t you dare talk about how the British ruled every country differently as though they didn’t kill, subjugate, rape, enslave and steal ALL of our resources.
This post is on some other shit. Only a #NewBlack or a white person would equate being BARRED from a community and in response (KEYWORD:RESPONSE) forming your own group with other rejects, then refusing to let the community pretend nothing ever happened and join your group to APARTHEID. APARTHEID!!!
HOW. DARE. YOU.
The problem with these women is they don’t respect anyone else’s humanity but their own, that’s why we (the natural hair community) don’t want them. How dare you trivialize the “LEGAL” murder, exclusion and degradation faced by South Africans IN THEIR OWN HOMELAND UNTIL THE 1992 (and let’s be real, it’s still segregated there) by comparing it to privileged white women boo-hooing over not being the center of attention for 2 seconds. What’s wrong with you??
Why was this even posted? Seriously?
Wow Jc usually has great articles but this is way off the mark. The natural hair movement is not “just hair.” It is about loving and accepting ourselves in a society that has for centuries told us we were ugly, inferior, and less than. Hair is a proxy for who you are and one of the only ways we have to represent ourselves, so as black women we focus on it. But we go through life constantly having to deal with an unchanging European standard of beauty: straight hair or loose 3a/3b curls. Yes some white women have frizzy hair but there are whole isles dedicated to that issue for them, while we MIGHT get a small space for Blue Magic. The simple fact is that white Americans CANNOT sympathize with going through life in a society that systemically degrades our natural beauty everyday. And now that they see there is an untapped natural hair market, white people want to jump on the bandwagon. This is a trend to them and let’s see how many white people want to be part of these communities once straight hair is “in” again.
These curlies/white women (and dominant groups in general) have a warped sense of empathy and no sympathy. I am not South African, and I have no relation to any. Yes, I am Black, but our struggles are NOT the same. I do not claim their struggle as my struggle, which is why I said they, not we. THIS is how you show sympathy, and it’s part of being a decent human being. I don’t deserve any cookies for saying what I said, and neither does anyone else; you are SUPPOSED to stand up for others. I did not even bring up my own struggle being Black in America, because I was not the subject, South Africans were.
For empathy, one should not need to actually BE in someone else’s shoes (OR make false equivalencies to their shoes) to understand their pain. It’s not that hard. Remember when that white woman wore a hijab for a DAY and only after she was harassed was she like “yes, I know exactly how you feel now!” She couldn’t take people’s word for it? She just had to place herself as an authority on the matter after one whole day? That’s sick.
I don’t want these women in the natural hair movement until they can get these two character traits right.
I feel you @CherryBOMB, I’m trying remain calm but it’s real hard. I’m trying to get at the heart of their motivation to “defend”. I feel like so many of us have been very clear that this isn’t about exclusion. It’s not like we said “Let’s have a party and not invite White people”. In fact @BGLH did a bang up job of saying White women are welcome to observe and LISTEN. Which is something many are NOT doing. Hell, I think it would be beneficial to have White allies who understood the oppression we get for our hair. White people listen to White people above us because frankly, today they just shut down if we start talking about racism because racism is for bad people and they aren’t bad.
People (of all races) seem to not understand racism anymore. And I really throw this off on the oppressor for creating the confusion. All this false equivalency is so inane and often times disrespectful as you pointed out.
I’m trying to just get these people to really expound on these soundbite, spoon-fed opinions Maybe then we can talk about what really is going on in their head and what their motivation is. I think we all have to do better jobs of framing our perspectives. Many of us have privileges granted to us because of our education, the money we make, the way we look, the way we talk and/or many other reasons. We need to be sure to check ourselves of those privileges. I really don’t want to call Jc out but the only personal detail she gave was that her husband is White. That can certainly play into her perspective as she’s probably around White people. I myself have a White husband and I’m around many white friends and family. My husband and I talk race a lot and it gave me a lot of insight into how very few White people talk about race and can recognize how they oppress (they think it’s about not being friends with Black people or using the N word). And my husband also said lots of them just don’t care and that’s at the heart of why we get all this appropriation. They don’t care or to the take to learn to respect our struggle. They want to be easy and carefree and have fun.
They need to admit to themselves that a part of them just doesn’t care. I mean really why would they if they have only been around other White people? White people can lead very happy and “normal” lives not giving any second thought to other cultures. That’s changing and there’s certainly a lot of pressure on White men but White women are due for a good education too.
The thing is, it’s going to be very hard to convince people to fight oppression because IT AIN’T EASY. Just look at how many of us are fighting some of our own to actually realize the sort of lazy misguided opinions they are throwing out. It’s much easier to either ignore oppression or just be all like “Equality, rah, rah!” for everyone. The focus should be on the oppressed not making the oppressors feel “included”. It’s all just so selfish.
I agree wholeheartedly with your response @Puff! I just posted my ideas on the true reason why they feel this way, and I think they never learned sympathy and have a warped sense of empathy.
When you’re taught that you’re the center of the universe all of your life, it’s an uphill battle convincing you otherwise. This is where their cognitive dissonance and willfully obtuse behavior stems from. It’s why they can critically think on the true meanings behind Plato’s Republic, yet give no thought into why it’s stupid to use the dictionary as an authority on anything ( I can link sources to this, but basically people ignore the fact that the dictionary did not descend from heaven as an absolute lol words are added and definitions are changed/added based on popular (aka white) use, with the most valid for the time period listed first, and even then, it’s fully updated like once a century lol) That’s why I laugh when I see them say “racism;noun…” like shut up that definition hasn’t been updated since the 1700’s!! And we know they won’t change it until the white majority accepts the current meaning (aka Twerking, aka Bootylicious, aka. cool etc.) That’s why saying “everyone can be natural!” is appropriation because in relation to hair, we’ve already attached a meaning to it. And honestly, they only care about the dictionary when it’s to their benefit; where was the dictionary when Native Americans were fighting to change the name of the R*dsk*ns?? It’s listed as derogatory in the dictionary, innit? 🙂
Anyways, I stated before that they don’t care about anyone’s pain but their own. They really don’t. They are selfish. They don’t care about not hurting others because it’s wrong, they only care about not looking like a bigot publicly. They don’t want to take responsibility for anything either. That’s why they say things like “not to be racist…”
And I could bet my heart and soul that if a non-Black/white curlygirl reads my posts, she will not think about it. She will dismiss everything I said. She will label me as angry. She will blurt out “not ALL white people!!” She will learn nothing. #NewBlacks will coddle her.
That’s why I say you should pick and choose what to explain to someone. You’ll go mad trying to explain the same thing over and over. If it’s a tired old argument, I point them to sources. There’s a required reading list before you step into my classroom lol
@CherryBOMB so much truth! The thing that gets me is I try to approach commenters by not slamming on them (which many of them whole heartedly deserve) but ask questions and try to engage them critically . Guess what? They peace right out or keep ignoring my questions and double down on their position. Sadly, that’s not exclusive to just White people. I’m sure you saw the back and forth I’m having with some Black people trying to tell people who is Black and who is not. It gets really disheartening when you have to fight your own or what I thought were our own. You’ve mentioned #NewBlack but I’m not sure who that would all include anymore. We’ve got some Black people like Jc ignoring the significance of having our space and championing equality our end and then we have others trying to tell other Black people they aren’t Black and negatively reinforcing. Can’t they see this is all so counterproductive to who we really need to be fighting, what we need to be fighting. We need to get focused on fighting White privilege in all it’s selfishness and horribleness. White people need to start arming themselves too because it’s killing them too. All these damn mass shootings by these entitled White misogynists. I mean when is enough going to be enough!? But no, we got all these small minded folks feeding into the Black boogie man, screaming about free speech, gun rights, post racial America, “equality” (when ain’t nothing close to equal). Then we got Black people fighting in here about whose Black or whose not, shaming some girl about her vlogs…it’s all a DISTRACTION and dividing us on the real problems. There’s people making billions of dollars on oppression and they know exactly how to deflect attention off their systems ad ways.
But when I start to get disheartened, I just remember that someone is quietly reading these statements and starting to critically think about the things being said and the things happening around them. They may plus they may not, hell they may even plus me down but as long as they read some of these words and it gets them emotional in either direction. Maybe they’ll start to think. Why? Why does this person think this what? Why do I feel upset about this? Could any of this be true? They should start doing their own research into institutional racism, rape culture, study the history of slavery, Jim Crow, new Jim Crow, racial inequalities in incarceration, feminism, colonialism…all of it. And then maybe they’ll start asking questions and listening….we can only hope. Till then lets keep on keepin’ on.
Nicely put! No matter what we say, they hear ALL, and they think NOT I. They don’t want (or even know how) to critically think. Girl, it doesn’t matter if you sugar coat or let your anger out, if someone doesn’t wanna hear you, they won’t. That’s why I could care less how people perceive my posts, I say what I feel and stand by my words. And you’re right, there are people who read our posts and learn a little something. And any Black person who parrots back the ideals of their oppressor is a #NewBlack lol.
I feel like, as I’ve stated before, everyone with significant Black ancestry has a place in the community, as long as they understand their position and examine (and ADMIT to) their privileges. This is VERY difficult for the Black community in every aspect, from class, to skintone, to gender, everything. In terms of Mixed-looking/Biracial-looking people, what frustrates me is that a significant number of them ignore the FACT that yes, we are all Black, but even in the Black community there is a (completely effed up) hierarchy with the Rasheeda Jones’ on top and Gabourey Sidibe’s on the bottom. Many Blacks at the top of this hierarchy refuse to examine why they’re there, feed into their position, or even pick and choose when to be Black. Also, many mixed people feel it’s wrong but don’t speak up when they see this happen, which is just as bad imo (there’s no partial credit IRL). Some have gotten so frustrated at the whole thing that they don’t want them in the community at all.
All you can really do is show support for your people. We’re a complicated, messy, broken, dysfunctional, effed up family, but we are also strong, resilient, beautiful, loving, and a force to be reckoned with!!
I honestly think fixing our internal issues is most important; when we (the Black community) are more or less on the same page, we get shit done. Great example: even though we have a few #NewBlacks in here, it’s almost unanimous that we ain’t here for non-Black curlies in the natural hair movement lol
*also, to add to what I just posted:
A) Biracial/mixed Black people did NOT create this hierarchy, white supremacy did
B) Many non-biracial/non-mixed Black people feed into this pecking order as well; it’s not just biracial/mixed-people doing it
C) This hierarchy holds true in white society ONLY when the goal is divide-and-conquer the community. Otherwise yes, we are all seen/treated as Black (aka when there’s no need to divide, just conquer).
Amen. It was a shortsighted and incredibly insulting analogy.
There is NO way she knows anything about history (other than a quick scroll through Google), using a word like apartheid in this context. That’s incredibly disrespectful, hurtful, and down right ignorant. She’s comparing a movement of black women embracing their own version of beauty to a South African apartheid government that tried to create a virus that would kill blacks by attacking their melanin cells?!?!?!?! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/110947.stm)? That’s disgraceful! But according to her, we’re the bad guys here…
Side Note:
CherryBOMB, I’ve been reading you’re posts for the past two days and you are on fire. I’m going to need someone to put a blanket on me once I fall out. Preach!
haha thanks 🙂 I would have stopped posting a long time ago, but I’m enjoying sharing my knowledge and learning from you guys. (Tbh I actually don’t care to explain anything to Jc, she has proven that she didn’t take any of the prereqs for this class lmao she needs to go find herself and collect her edges that we snatched) You guys are so smart! I’m glad most of us can think critically!
I just want to say that you are mentioning organisations that will not necessarily endorse what you are saying. Oprah’s Legends Ball while highlighting achievements of black women did include invited guests who are excellent at their fields and are white. It is not saying we cannot celebrate black women, but saying all people of all races can celebrate and recognise the achievements of black women – so yes white people were invited to the party http://www.oprah.com/entertainment/The-Legends-Ball/
Jc, what are you doing?? You dissect one (frankly insignificant part) to try to what? Discredit some of the very valid points they made? Can you come on here and actually engage, listen and discuss thoughtfully? I’m all about learning something new and if someone presented some really sound points I would acknowledge that.
Can you please comment on your interpretation of racism? It to me creates a dangerous false equivalence that is often used against non whites. Yes, it is true that anyone can be discriminated against but in America (and many other countries) White people are the dominant and powerful race. Can you comment to that?
The oppressors have done a “clever” thing by convincing people that racism is equal to everyone. They have also made it so calling someone racist is equivalent to calling someone “evil” so it makes so many to shut down and get defensive when they get called out instead of actually considering their racist actions. Again racism comes from the oppressors against the oppressed.
Even if you had kicked off with “We shouldn’t discriminate against White people” there may be something to discuss but mainly that we aren’t excluding them. We are saying “Don’t appropriate this and twist it into yours. Observe and learn and get educated about an oppressed group.” White allies could take this information to their place of work and really evaluate if their “professionalism” rules are oppressing.
Anyway, I’m repeating myself form another comment. If you are going to come on here actually try to engage and entertain what we are saying is valid. You are just coming in here trying to make us look wrong. What purpose does that serve? I’m really asking; what is your motivation and what are you trying to accomplish?
From the Wiki entry on Oprah’s Legends Ball:
“Oprah Winfrey’s Legends Ball was a three-day celebration held by Oprah Winfrey honoring twenty-five African American women in art, entertainment, and civil rights.”
Oprah’s own words on the ball:
“These women, who have been meaningful to so many of us over the years, are legends who have been magnificent in their pioneering and advancing of African-American women. It is because of their steps that our journey has no boundaries.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_Winfrey's_Legends_Ball
From the chair of The Congressional Black Congress:
It is my great honor and privilege to serve as the 23rd Chair of the Congressional Black Caucus.
“For more than 140 years and before the CBC was founded, African Americans elected to Congress have felt a responsibility to be the voice of the Black community among their peers.”
http://cbc.fudge.house.gov/from-the-chair/
From Clutch Magazine:
” Mission: To accurately portray Black women and the Black community in the States and abroad.
To fill the online voids in the Black demographic.”
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/mediakit/about/
From Ebony Magazine:
“EBONY is the No. 1 source for an authoritative perspective on the Black-American community. Under the direction of Editor-in-Chief, Amy D. Barnett, the monthly magazine, now in its 66th year, reaches nearly 11-million readers. EBONY features the best thinkers, trendsetters, hottest celebrities and next-generation leaders of Black-America.”
http://www.ebony.com/about-ebony
From Black Girls Rock:
“BLACK GIRLS ROCK! Inc. is 501(c)3 non-profit youth empowerment and mentoring organization established to promote the arts for young women of color, as well as to encourage dialogue and analysis of the ways women of color are portrayed in the media.
Since 2006, BLACK GIRLS ROCK! has been dedicated to the healthy development of young women and girls. BLACK GIRLS ROCK! seeks to build the self-esteem and self-worth of young women of color by changing their outlook on life, broadening their horizons, and helping them to empower themselves.”
http://www.blackgirlsrockinc.com/about-us/#.U7V28K1dXTY
From Black Girls Code:
“Black Girls CODE is devoted to showing the world that black girls can code, and do so much more.”
http://www.blackgirlscode.com/what-we-do.html
From Black Girls Run:
“The mission of Black Girls RUN! is to encourage African-American women to make fitness and healthy living a priority.”
http://www.blackgirlsrun.com/about_bgr/
From Black Girl with Long Hair:
“Black Girl with Long Hair is a website dedicated to the ever-growing community of black and bi-racial women who choose to wear their hair naturally — with no use of chemicals and minimal use of heat, weave or extensions.”
https://bglh-marketplace.com/about/
From the Wiki entry on Essence’s Annual Black Women in Hollywood Luncheon
“Essence magazine holds an award ceremony annually to honor black women who have achieved success in Hollywood.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence_(magazine)#Black_Women_In_Hollywood
From President Obama’s “My Brother’s Keeper” Initiative
“President Obama is taking action to launch My Brother’s Keeper – a new initiative to help every boy and young man of color who is willing to do the hard work to get ahead. For decades, opportunity has lagged behind for boys and young men of color. But across the country, communities are adopting approaches to help put these boys and young men on the path to success.”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/02/27/fact-sheet-opportunity-all-president-obama-launches-my-brother-s-keeper-
From Black Enterprise (on supporting black business)
“With black buying power on track to reach $1.2 trillion in 2015, Chandra R. Thomas of Atlanta, GA, along with two of her friends, found it disturbing that although African Americans are the largest consumers, they aren’t spending money with African American vendors and business owners.”
http://www.blackenterprise.com/small-business/4-ways-to-support-black-businesses/
The only orgs I referenced that I could not find quotes for were NAACP — they consider themselves a general civil rights org (like the ACLU) and not race-specific, and none of the natural hair companies I checked referenced the African American experience in their “about” pages.
Native Americans were also invited to the ‘party’. In my country the black natives were also invited to the party then wiped the hell out with your beloved apartheid.
my above comment was directed to JC and her party invitations to all mankind.
I swear comments like yours is why I LOVE the natural hair movement. This “just hair” is causing a new mental awareness, self acceptance, and unity. I honestly feel that as we black women continue on this track, a few years from now the black men will be forced to do the same and our community will be stronger and better. This no doubt would benefit the world. We have lost our way (with the violence, devaluing of education, oversexualization, etc) a good while after the civil rights era but I think we’re headed in the right direction again.
I wish I could “thumbs up” this comment a thousand times. Basically, this article is STRAIGHT UP racist. The author is AGAINST a racially marginalized minority lifting themselves up and away from a racist gaze. BGLH has published a racist article against the BW who support this site. Like I said before, this is worse than Curly Nikki. And yes, being that the article is racist, it is dangerous and abusive. BGLH needs to remove it.
In response to the Mandela quote I have to ask “What freedoms are white women lacking?” I understand that they aren’t always made to feel pretty but in the broader scope they are put on a pedestal for their beauty. Here is the fear and frustration that so many black women REALLY have. If we allow white women into THIS space that WE’VE created and where we go to support each other and talk about OUR issues how do we know that it won’t be snatched from us? History shows that anytime black people create a movement it most often ends up whitewashed. I don’t think black women are saying white women don’t have identity issues or that they can’t embrace their natural selves. What we are saying though is that our struggles ARE DIFFERENT. Are there things that allow our cultures to relate to each other, yes! Are all black people the same, NO! But we can talk about those things here, amongst ourselves, here we can work them out the best we can. Tell me what white girl you know can’t get a job because of the texture of her hair? It’s more than just hair for so many of us, so many of the articles here are not just hair related. Just give us our space for once!!!! When we step out in public, go to school, work, and other public arenas we are forced to live by another cultures rules. When we turn on t.v. we are forced to see another groups culture as the dominant culture. We also see how their ideas impact our self image. We just want a space to just be us! There is nothing wrong with that. THAT is not apartheid, THAT is self preservation.
This is the truth. I don’t know what it is with this wave of black people acting as if we live in a post-racial society and think that whites can relate to us on matters of oppression. I don’t mean they haven’t had their moments of it but at the end of the day their moments are usually everyday encounters we have with the world we live in.
Girllll. I think my heart just clapped! lol *Amen Amen!
This is a classic example of silencing AND a misuse of a Mandela quote smh If this girl knew anything about Mandela besides that quote she googled 2 seconds before she wrote this, she’d know that he was all for self-preservation. Mandela DIDN’T WANT integration, he wanted the invaders to leave his homeland! I swear as soon as a Black figurehead passes non-Black people pick apart their words and mold them to fit their kumbaya-we-are-the-world bullshit. What’s next, did Martin Luther King Jr. have a dream that 1A curlies could rep #teamnatural? Get gone lol