by
Chinwe
When Andre Walker’s hair typing system was introduced, there was no mention of a 4C hair type. 4A was described as tightly coiled with a more defined curly pattern while 4B was described as tightly coiled with a “z” shaped, less defined curly pattern.
Is 4C a hair type?
Fast forward to today. With the growth of the natural hair community, new hair typing systems have been created, and at least one includes a 4C type. NaturallyCurly.com builds upon Andre Walker’s system to describe 4C hair as:
“composed of curl patterns that will almost never clump without doing a specific hair style. 4c hair has been described as a more “challenging” version of 4b hair. Some say 4c looks identical to 4b except that the curls are so tightly kinked, there is seemingly no definition. 4c hair can shrink more than 75%.”
… Or is 4C hair just 4B hair that is dry?
Not too long ago, I watched a video in which a natural-haired woman – who initially appeared to be 4A/4B – described her hair as 4C. Some of the viewers disputed her claim leading her to create a second video showing her hair in its shrunken, un-moisturized, un-conditioned state. Low and behold, many of the viewers were now stating that she was 4C or a mix of 4B and 4C. Amidst the audience were a group of viewers suggesting that 4C is actually 4B hair that has not experienced optimal hair care, especially when it comes to moisture. This woman, to them, was an example of how a great hair care regimen and adequate moisture can transform what appears to be “4C” hair into 4B.
What say you?
So I pose the question to you, BGLH readers. What is 4C hair? With the right hair care regimen can naturals who claim to be 4C actually be 4B? Or is 4C truly a hair type of its own?
What is your definition of 4C hair?
104 Responses
This is my friend Chantilly I would say she has 4c kinky hair .
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Also that’s my hair in a wash in go just water moisturizer and oil added . I didn’t do a twists out .
I have 4a hair mix with some 3c I would say 4c is really kinky no curl pattern and 4b has a zig zag pattern but still kinky . I describe my hair as coily because that’s what it is .
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I don’t know what I am either. When I wash it and add oil it still shrinks to frustration….yes frustration and when I moisturize it with KNOT TODAY and MISS JESSIE BUTTERCREAM (expensive!!!!) and twist it….I’m in love. I think I’m 4c. The shrinkage pic is a week after the twist out.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/image-20.jpg[/img]
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You’re 4b
ur 4b i can see ur hair being cumpt
I never got into the ab or c of the hair type system. its difficult and your 4a doesn’t look like everyone else’s 4a hair. I simply say I am a type 4 which is kinky hair. so much easier and to the point. I also don’t do the “i’m a 3b in the back and have a patch of 4b in the front and smedge of 2c in the middle. i see this all the time and it clear the person is just one type all around.
the hair typing system is confusing as hell. I thought I was a 4b however when my hair is well moisturized I have curls. They are tinier than the 4a definition but they are distinct curls. I think everything after 4a gets lumped into no definition or the mythical z shape (rarely have I come across it) but there is way more going on.
Yes, I need a pic of zigzag curls, too! Lol
I find it strange that in the 4 group, the only difference is whether the hair clumps or doesn’t. In all other groups, it based on curl diameter/size. Why don’t they keep it consistent? I’ve seen ppl with teeny tiny clumped coils and others with larger clumped coils… they’re both 4a? *shrug*
I kind of wish A. Walker would fix or update his typing system. I don’t think it’ll get every type, but it could definitely be better.
I think defining the hair type and texture have been really helpful to women ,that way they could identify it and See which products were better fit for their haïr. To me the limit is the lutter. In my opinion, It should not be limited to 4C. But there is as many type of hair as there exist individuals that makes the différence.
I have all 3 hair types and both thick and thin strands on my head. I’m not a fan of labels, but if I had to label my hair there’s definitely 4c sections as well as 4b and 4a. I treat all of my hair the same way so I don’t see how this theory would work tbh.
I would not be surprised if the author if this post isn’t 4b or 4c. I’ m sure if it ! Why? Bc there’s a very distinct diff in 4b and 4c hair. If 4c is dry 4b hair wouldn’t that imply that 4c and 4b hair looks the same dry?! Which they def don’t. And I hate ppl who say they hate the hair typing system. Usually Ppl who don’t have 4b 4c hair. If it weren’t for the hair typing system most would have gave up their journeys for lack of know knowledge and being able to find related hair types. I can’t just type in natural hair in the search engine, or YouTube and expect hair types like mine to pop up! Thank god I can literally type in 4c hair ect.. Bc if it wouldn’t for the system I wouldn’t know what to do with ‘my 4c hair’ and feel so alone.
Absolutely not. 4c and 4b hair is distinctively different. That is a fact. 4b and 4c hair LOOKS and feels different. 4b hair when wet with a curl definer will coil or curl hair. 4c hair will not do the same. Also, 4c hair has a spongy bounce unlike 4b hair is not spongy but springy. I have 4a/4b hair and it is a MAJOR difference. 4b hair when wet can form some curls but dries afro-textured. The hair system is right.
4c is definately a hair type. I say this because I have seen healthy, thriving 4c hair. My grandmother has the softest hair I have ever touch (excluding baby hair). With her simple regimen of washing her hair with natural soap (Kenyan) and protecting it by keeping it in a silk scarf 24/7 (no acceptions) she has managed to maintain soft hair that shows no signs of breakage, dryness, or protein overload. Her hair has absolutely NO curl pattern… every hair does its own thing despite her hair showing every sign of hydration and moisturization.
I have 4c hair.. My sister has 4b. Our hair is very different. My hair does have a curl pattern. Each strand looks like a pen spring. Teeny tiny coils and yes they clump too.
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/image-9.jpg[/img]
You are of course entitled to label your hair as you find most convenient and comfortable. I however, think it’s interesting that you categorise your hair as 4C. The hair typing system is about curl PATTERN mainly and not texture. 4C is characterised for its lack of curl pattern AND kinky texture (but mainly curl pattern cuz that’s what hair typing is all about). I think your curl pattern is 4A but your texture may be more along the afro-kinky. Does that make you 4A or 4C? #foodforthought
I’d dare to say she has a clumpy 4C texture. It’s just weird to me that clumps or definition make someone automatically a 4a when all other texture groups (1, 2, and 3) are separated by curl size (or lack there of) or curl pattern as you say. Because we know that from 3a to 3c, the curls go from bigger to larger; the amount of clumping is insignificant. However, from 4a-4c, we somehow base it on clumping (curl definition vs size). It’s just inconsistent.
this describes my son’s hair. when dry it has no definition whatever. clouds come to mind. but when small sections are wet or oiled the hair clump into very tiny clumps. he doesn’t have any zig zags going on, all distinct little coils. but they’re all tinier than a pen spring. i think he’s a mix of the two but i don’t definitively know the difference bt 4b/c. So i say he’s both, with a hint of 4a around the perimeter.
I have 4c hair with 4b in the middle but my hair isn’t dry it is moisturised and it is not that hard to manage
I have 4c hair. My hair is not “difficult” my hair is not under moisturized. Thank you.
I have 4c hair and i keep it moisturized with olive and coconut oils. So I believe that moisturized or un-moisturized doesn’t matter on the type. i have bad shrinkage where when stretched or straightened my hair is at my shoulder, wash it, it is about an inch long.
Yes, there is such a type as 4C, as a matter of fact, I would venture to say I have type 5 (FIVE) hair and I moisturize at least twice a day. People who don’t think it exists don’t have it growing out of their heads. I’m a witness everyday that type 4c/5 hair is NOT a unicorn!
It is a fact that many have been able to bring their hair from the stereotyped “hard” hair to soft, pliable and moisturized hair over time. Some people’s curl pattern have even changed in the process. For me, I believe I have 4c hair, which is the reason why I can’t achieve any out style overnight. Unless I leave the style in for at least 2-3days, even this isn’t a guarantee.
I don’t see anything wrong with the hair typing system. I think it’s necessary since there are so many different types of hair textures amongst the black community. someone with 4c hair can’t practice the same haircare regimen as a 3a hair and expect the same results. Likewise, a wash n go on a type 3 hair will look different from that of 4c.
themanecaptain.blogspot.ca
You’d have to use every letter in the alphabet to create a category for every type of textured hair, it’s SO diverse. IMO, 4a, 4b, 4c etc. is unnecessarily specific and ultimately meaningless (can YOU pin down the difference between 4b and 4c? Can anyone?). We should just call type 4 hair Afro-textured (everyone knows what that means), type 3 curly, type 2 wavy, and type 1 straight. That’s it.
@Afrochelle never thought of your suggestion and it would make the typing process very simple, but what about the type 3 curly hair that is also Afro-textured?
Then maybe we can say Type 4 hair is Coily.
I think the specific typing helps. It definitely helped me figure out why no matter how much I tried, my hairstyles would never come out the same way as 4a/b Youtube hairstyles. I won’t think I have to spend a ton of money to get my hair that way. I can now focus on figuring out what actually works for my type.
Am I really a dark medium brown skin girl? or am I an actual medium brown girl who does not moisturize, apply astringent/toners and stay out in the sun too long.
Pardon the above sarcasm but this is an absurd & insulting article — as if to be 4C is to be burdened, cursed and inferior.
I think hair typing is useful because without categories how will we know which hair care practices might work for our hair? In a video, photo, or blog, we cannot tell if someone’s hair is remotely similar to ours without some “hair typing system”. That system doesn’t just mean 3c, 4a, 4c. It also includes low porosity, high porosity, thin, fine, dense, thick, coarse, dry, oily etc…
I personally found it really helpful to find people with 4c, coarse, and dense hair like mine. That’s how I learned about finger detangling and other techniques that work better for my hair. Also, certain products are designed for different types of hair because (as all naturals know) all hair is different. Typing just helps one narrow down to certain practices and products that may work better for their hair.
As for 4c hair being dry 4b hair. I just don’t think that’s true. As far as people with “type 4 hair” go, there are so many variations in texture. I’m living proof that 4c hair exists, and heck no, my hair isn’t dry.
I think there might be something to that theory. I know ever since I’ve upped the moisturizing (86ed the shampooing, daily watering and conditioning) I see a noticeable difference in my hair’s curls/kinks. They clump better and there’s less frizz and more definition. I wonder if frizz is what some might be confusing for having no curl definition?
I LOVE HAIR TYPING…Its Great it has helped me so Much, Hair typing makes me feel Confident..I used to see Black people with these different types of hair and feel why do they have looser hair than mine and why do I moisturize and Moisturize and it still looks dry and not wavy like thier hair even though they are black too. even though thier hair were also Natural??! BECAUSE I DIDN’T KNOW MY HAIR TYPE..USING THE WRONG FLAMIN’ THINGS, THAT MAYBE MIXED RACE PEOPLE OR OTHER BlACK PERSON OF COLOUR with 3C/B/M/N/O/Q/V hair, could get away with..I now feel even more special as I have something to claim as mine YES I am 4c left alone and 3.99 (lol) when wet…It helps with the styles I want to Create..When I was 9years old early 80’s I RAN AND RAN AND RAAAAN to the Shops to buy ‘Sunsilk’ Shampoo Conditioner because I thought I would some how have that Long silken golden hair as the woman in the Advert..Yes yes Now a days I can, I really can with ANY WEAVE 🙂 but I love my hair and have been Natural now for MANY MANY years(after the Advert) when many many Black people used to be so negative but I didnt care, to me my hair was beautiful and special, and in an Afro its like fairy hair, which I would say to the little Babies who wanted to know <3, and now my Hair has a Type and I am LOVING IT…<3
This is what happens when you start creating categories for hair. Now there are going to be some people who are going to debate what type of hair you have. Can hear it now, “I’m 4a/b” then someone else would say “No, you’re not your hair is just dry. Try again you are 4C.” as if it is something negative. Now I guess we will start judging people on their hair type. That is why I don’t like this hair type system, all hair types are good regardless of the type.
Until we stop saying that 4b/c hair is the most difficult hair type to deal with these type of conversations will never go way. No 4c hair is not just dry 4b hair. There are different variations among nappy hair. I have seen plenty. Including some off the charts naps as well. The thing is it doesn’t really matter. Its all about your attitude. There is beauty outside of twist outs and braid outs. I dislike hair typing because I think it puts a limit on what one can do with their hair.
“There is beauty outside of twist outs and braid outs.”
PREACH PREACHA!
but it IS difficult to deal with!
I agree placing negativity on 4bc hair, and to be honest, I find 4c to be an “easy” texture to care for. My niecy-poo (10) has 4c hair all around and doing her hair is tons easier than doing mine. I have a mix of 4’s (abc), mainly 4b, but my 4c sections are always the least “tangly” and the easiest to comb thru. That’s just my experience though.
I have 4C hair and I have a pretty good regimen. When my hair is stretched its doesn’t look like 4A or 4B hair, it looks like stretched 4C hair. So I don’t agree with the sentiments expressed in this post. My hair can be described as having extremely small coils much like the spring when find in a push point pen but from a distance you would not recognise it.
Honestly, I’m a 4z. My hair has a Z pattern to it so I’ll just go with it. Debate me!
While I know have not gotten my hands in every hair type on the planet I can say two things for sure. There are hair types even kinkier and more coily (like needle sized coils) than the widely recognized 4b and that one will not truly know the optimal behavior and appearance of their hair unless it is well hydrated and cared for.
All the numbers and letters (1-4z lol) are good for visual descriptors and best styling practices and have less to do with product choices and care than texture (strand diameter: fine, medium or coarse) and density (thin, medium, or thick/heavy).
Learn yours and love it, I say!
Does it matter? Shouldn’t the goal be to instruct women on how to properly moisturize and care for their hair regardless of type. I have the so-called “4A hair”. What does the heck does that mean exactly? Diddly squat. I have tight little springy coils that define well in an afro, but don’t really work in twist out styles. Whoop Whoop. Yet, my hair is still beautiful and it’s growing because I eat the right things most of the time, I keep it moisturized, I bone up on various hair maintenance techniques, I trim it when necessary and I keep it protected. Whether you have 3b hair or 4c hair, you still have to do all of those things. You have to have some sort of regimen to keep it healthy. Plenty of sisters out there with 4c hair that’s quite beautiful because they do all of the above. I know I’m going to get slammed for this, but can I keep it real? Some of you guys seem to think you’re new and improved because this of this hair type thing and completely (and literally) let some of the mumbo-jumbo go to your head. It’s like you magically pulled a Chris Rock–“I’ve got better hair than this sister because I got a few more curls poppin’ in MY nappy”. Please stop the madness and realize what you are doing. The natural hair “movement” was designed educate and liberate the black woman from oppressive social beauty standards, not create more walls that divide. This hair type thing has become the new Paper bag test–and it’s getting ridiculous. Black is beautiful ALL THE TIME–that’s whether it’s ivory or ebony (or wavy or cottony). Please believe there’s a 4c girl around your corner RIGHT NOW with hair that’s not only down to her behind, but the waist and the curvy bootie to go with it. Beauty comes from within and hair is an accessory; it is merely an extension of who you are. Healthy gorgeous hair comes in different textures; and very few sisters can rock a large, neat afro like a 4c girl. We’re ALL beautiful sis, so quit this sh–t.
Don’t be harsh. I didn’t like the idea of hair typing at first, but now I see it as black women discovering their natural hair. Back when I first went natural EVERYBODY else had perms. There was no terminology to discuss natural hair except “nappy”. Now we are all comparing notes and that is awesome! It’s not a negative thing, and it always feels nice to see that one person who knows what the heck you are talking about! So, for the 4a,b,c,d etc.. girls, it’s like finding a long lost sister. It’s is all beautiful and it is all love. Peace.
There’s a definite difference. Come to Southern Africa and you will see it. I’m almost convinced I’m in category 5. I’ve often thought it’s been left out. I take take meticulous care of my hair so it has nothing to do with neglect or product. It is what it is.
Oh yes there is a big difference between 4b and 4c hair. For example looks at Nikkimae (4b) and Nneka (4c) and you will see the difference.
Also the very back of my head is 4B and the rest of my hair is 4C. I can do the same style on these different parts of my head and receive very different results. The curls in the back are always loose and extended. The curls on the rest of my head are frizzy, undefined and clumpy.
I mean this website should be proof enough. Look at the styles labeled 4b/4c and the styles just 4c and you can see the difference.
After a deep olive oil treatment my hair still gives me the same results. If anything I have to stretch out my hair with a blowout/twistout for it to even look close to 4b hair. And when the hair starts drawing up again its back to those dang frizzy little curls.
someone needs to say this once and for all:
IT’S OK IF YOUR HAIR DOES NOT HAVE VISIBLE CURLS! There is NOTHING wrong with your hair and it does not need to be “fixed”. Take care of your hair and enjoy it. IT IS BEAUTIFUL!
Amen!!
Hair can change curl pattern depending on length and products used as well. My hair looked more like 4 when it was shorter. Now the length causes it to look different, less shrinkage. Natural hair is versital and a constant learning process. Enjoy the ride!
I’ve never really paid much attention to the hair typing system since I think the same basics apply to all the textures (which I seemingly have in my head): keep moisturised, seal, trim and don’t snag/rip. Outside of that, the particulars all seem based on too many individual factors like density, length, the weather, diet, etc.
I’ve wondered whether or not moisture can affect the appearance of curl pattern, because that seems to be the case with MY hair. But that might not be the case with EVERYONE’S hair. When I first started watching Naptural85’s channel I was impressed, but I didn’t take her regimen too seriously because I thought she really had type 3 hair with way looser curls than mine. Fast forward to me being natural for about 5 years, the length of my hair combined with keeping it stretched a lot and a moisturizing routine similar to hers has actually gotten my hair to seem a bit different. I still didn’t notice it until I saw a picture of myself. My hair had that 3C look to it unstretched, which I don’t usually see in the mirror. So I think we should keep in mind that videos and cameras can change the way a person’s hair would look in person.
Our hair is just diverse. I know mine can literally almost change textures depending on what time of year it is.
This hair-typing business always gives me a headache. -.-‘
can’t stand it
I’m with you. As soon as I saw the title, I groaned. I cannot stand hair typing. For me, it has always represented another divisive tool in the black hair community. It’s just good hair 2.0. I refuse to type my hair. I don’t see how it serves any purpose. I’m not going to to dispute its usefulness to people who say they use it as an aid in picking hair products, styles etc, but I have managed to learn how to take care of my hair without ever subscribing to any hair typing manual. I used to wish all the hair blogs had been around when I went natural, but now I think I was probably better off. I got to know my hair on my own without having to consider a thousand different opinions.
I think hair typing helps you to know how big of a problem tangles will be in your life, whether you can do certain hairstyles or how you can do them. However, when it comes to products, curl pattern has nothing to do with what works for you. Porosity, texture(strand diameter), density, and elasticity are things that are much more relevant to what product works for you. You can use the conditioner as a white woman would under those circumstances.
From what I’ve seen, what I would estimate (I say estimate since, as D.P. said, it’s not a science) as ‘4C’ hair definitely has nothing to do with lack of moisture. There’s one natural woman I know: it was like each individual strand was it’s own curl, they didn’t clump into collective curls, no matter how moisturized. That seems to be the biggest differentiation for me: the size of the curl and how much the strands clump together is how I estimate a ‘hair type’.
Yea I agree that sounds like one of my sisters. Once I plucked at one such curl at the nape of her neck and it unraveled to like 3 inches from a ball… I knowing her all my life was even amazed. I was like this is a next level of hair…
Exactly. I agree with you. Curl pattern (or as we prefer to say it, hair type) is determined by the size of the curl- and curl definition simply lies in whether strands clump or not.
My minority 4A strands clump so I can easily see the Z in em. The rest of my hair (90%+) is 4C though and each strand coils tightly in a similar bendy Z-fashion, but they don’t clump. Hence, no definition.
I haven’t mastered moisturising but I try. In any case, will I say my 4A strands are more moisturised than the rest of my hair? Nah.
LOL I got 5A hair without any products. with conditioner it looks like 4A. Im happy for the hair typing chart tho as what D.P says its just in the hair world…. Our hair differs in strand thickness, density and all other variations…. not just curl pattern… most times persons just generalize and say she has 4c hair cuz its very challenging when in truth their curl pattern may be looser. jus saying
Really though? This is kinda insulting, almost to say “hey maybe you’re not moisturizing your 4c hair enough? FIX that”. Smh. As a person with at least 4 different hair textures and even more when density and porosity is thrown in the mix, there’s a HUGE difference every few inches across my head. A leave in and oil will not change the structure of my hair strands.
Also, what’s wrong with 4c hair just being 4c hair? Must there be a petty debate every other day on here?
Yeah totally agree! My friend has 3b/3c hair and all she has to do is a wet twistout and she has the “perfect” wavy natural hairstyle; takes like 20 minutes.
Now when I take my mostly 4c hair and have to do a deep olive oil conditioner, blowout and then twistout; takes like almost 2 hours. I get very different reactions.
People have said I should have spent a longer time on my hair. Or I didn’t style it right. No I have 4c complicated and difficult to style hair that doesn’t give me great results. I almost went off on that couple. And this has happened on several occasions.
Hair typing is extremely important. If hair typing is not important to a person, that’s because they have hair that is very manageable with great results. Us other girls have to find what works best for our hair and work from there.
I had a co-worker tell me that my hair should be way longer than what it is by now…that really pissed me off because how would she even know how long my hair is when I wear my hair in twisted protective styles constantly. She compares my hair with her sister’s who is also natural and I’m sure is somewhere in the 3a-4a range. People who don’t have 4c hair do not understand that it does not reveal its true length unless stretched or straightened. And believe me, no matter how much moisture I infuse in my hair, the texture never changes.
If you say 4c everyone is going to know what you mean and I don’t think anyone is going to be secretly thinking, “Girlfriend just has some dry 4b hair”. Hair typing is nothing technical. There is no science behind it. It’s not recognized by scientists as something of substantial importance. If you look up the definition of 4c this is what it says, “4C or IV-C may refer to : * 4C Array, a cylindrical paraboloid radio telescope at the Mullard Radio Astronomy Observatory” whatever that means. This is a hair community thing and something that is being created by people in the hair community. If the community says that 4C hair exists then it does and no one should really say otherwise. Hell I’ve seen people say they have 4D hair and my mind said, “DANG, her hair must be something difficult” lol. We all know what it means. Let it be.
D.P. the natural hair community will never let up on type 4BC hair…because THE TEXTURE is…unique. The shrinkage to the ear one day, stretched to the BSL the following week; because of this uniqueness, will always have never-ending discussions, 1000 comments will always be.
I agree with you whole heartedly. Which is why everyone should just let people type their hair how they want to. We are an online community. Unless you’ve examined, touched, played with, washed and dried that persons hair for a week straight you have no reason to tell them what their hair type is. You can have extra moisturized hair, you can have extra dry hair, 3 inches of hair, 4 feet of hair, hair that is stretched, shrunk, whatever. If you believe it’s 4C then it’s 4C. No product is going to change that.
the natural hair community will NEVER let 4bc hair be…even down to the ankles, lol
my hair type is 12h with a bit of 7b at the crown and 14q at the nape..lol seriously type 4bc hair has the most discussions all across the boards…why is that? type 4bc all the way!
I am too weak at those numbers lol
As I’ve gone along further on my natural journey I have moved away from using the typing system, but I am absolutely, positively 4c. It is a real texture. When moisturized and properly tended to, my hair feels like cashmere, but I let go of the defined curl dream and sheeny shine a LONG time ago. Which is fine. Our hair is justbeautiful and luxurious so yeah I would like to see the while debate end a well..
Guys, we have what I call “chameleon hair” as in it can pretty much look like any and every type under the sun! My hair, for example, when styled in a wash n go looks like its firmly in the 3’s. Right after I wash it? It looks like a straight type 4 haha~
So why worry about if 4c is actually another hair type but w/o moisture? Depending on where you are in your hair journey, your regimen and your UNIQUE hair and body properties(health,scalp condition, nutritional deficiencies,moisture levels internally,etc), your hair could be any type, but look like all the others at some point in your life (or at least my hair does this lol). If your hair gets to its optimal moisture levels and your curl pattern changes, then you know its that hair type when its super moisturized. If it doesn’t change, then well, you have super soft and moisturized hair (that I’m jealous of and would like tips on getting mine that way too lol). Either way, you have super soft and moisturized hair. Still winning in my opinion.
I believe that 4C is an actual hair type. I am a new natural. However, I have curls ranging from 3C to 4C. I have a pretty good hair regimen, and judging off of my experiences w/ freshly washed and conditioned hair, there are front sections of my hair that fit the description of 4C. while the rest of my hair will be all curled and clumped up, the front of my hair, even when soaking wet, won’t clump up nor show any type of curl pattern
I am the same way, Sam- Most of my hair has a very defined curl pattern, however the sides of my head and a random patch on top of my head ranges from straight to wavy…the section on the top of my head also has the lowest porosity, however even though I baby it and try to infuse it with as much moisture as possible, I STILL cannot get it to curl the way the rest of my hair does
No. I definitely have 4c hair. It never clumps together even while wet. And I would say that I take care of my hair.
I can only speak of my own experience, but what i considered my hair type to behas changed over the course of my natural hair “journey”!!! Even while relaxed my hair was dense, tightly coiled and i could visibly see it began to shink once it became anything less than soaking wet. There was no clumping and it behaved and appeared as if each strand or two was its own individual curl they were also about the size of a spring inside of a pen. My hair was stiff, felt wiry and fro’ed with ease.Based on those characteristic i assumed my hair to be 4c-4b as i learned of the hair typing system and viewed pics of other ladies similarly catergorized. By the time i was 18months along my in my transition and had learned the proper habits and practices reqiured for attaining healthier hair, i began to notice clumping of my curls and realized there was none prior because even though i had shoulder length hair most of my strands had broken somewhere along its length and their individual ends were notmeeting together in one coil and using the supporting weight of what would have been their fellow “clump mates” to add needed weight. Once i BC’ed my hair not longer had the weight of relaxed ends and snapped back into a fit of ferocious shrinkage, but were still clumped and the end spirals were now varied between the size of a #2 pencil and a sharpie. The remaining length of my clumps had that lovely loopy s shape, not spirals, about the size of a bic. My hair rested around my ears when completely dry after a was and go and absolutely refused to fro without vigorous encouragement and damage i.e. Pick, back, pat, repeat. It has been four years since i BC’ed,i now catergorize it as 3b-3c4a. The back third is3b and gradually Tightens to 3c as you move toward the crown and front of my hair, the sides are 4a from the top of my ears to roughly two inches in, they also gradually loosing to 3c as you head toward the crown. Detangling is now a breeze as where before it would literally bring me to tears and leave my head throbbing. I thought my hair was a different type because of the condition it was in, and learning to properly care for it revealed what was really growing from my scalp. While this is not to debate the existence of 4c hair, it is meant to help clarify that it is possible tobe mistaking about you own hair type if you have not yet discovered what it requires to be its most healthy and allow it to reveal it full and true glory!!! Because of this journey, i no worry about typing my hair(only did soabove so that readers can gain an understanding of how it has changed) i simply listen what it is telling me it needs. I also dont believe i need the hair typing system for styling, my eyes and hands tell me whether or not attempting certain styles are appropriate for my hair. Which unfortunately means no glorious, grand rounded fros or puffs for me 🙁 and i really am so sad about that!!!!
Sorry jas, love that was notmeant as a reply to you my ipad is janky, lol
Does it really matter? There will forever be an endless debate about what exactly is 4a/b/c hair, and in all reality it doesn’t matter. Even if you can identify a group of women as 4b or 4c, no two heads of hair will be the exact same. There may be similarities, but that’s it. Hair texture has SO much more to do with curl diameter/size; density, thickness, and so many more factors come into play. The bottom line is finding the right products for YOUR head of hair to keep it healthy and moisturized, and most importantly embracing the hair on your head that God has given you!
I totally agree CaramelCurls….actual curl pattern has nothing to do with your hair texture and even less to do with how to care for your hair. THe only time that it is relevant is if you are concerned curl definition…for some it is a matter of just wettng and moisturizing, others stick with braid outs and twist outs…this letter/ number system is really only helpful when to styling
I think that’s true for some people, but I have a friend with a beautiful fro. I always thought she was combing out the definition, but as it grows I see there are no curls to define! It’s like straight hair almost, only it grows up. On the other hand, I’m a 4b. My hair can look like it has no curls, but only when it is over-stretched or intensely dry. When moisturized it’s ultra-curly/coily.
I am not an expert either but I do believe that the more you hydrate and moisturize the hair, 4C would eventually be 4A. Using the “right” products can also turn 4C hair into 4B or even 3C!
For instance, if you have to detangle your hair for a long period of time after you wash, you are using the wrong shampoo. If your conditioner does not give you “slip” (smooth detangled hair), you are using the wrong conditioner.
You MUST use products for black hair, or products that are made for you. Forget the Suave or Mane and Tail, these products just dry your hair out and your 4C or whatever your hair type is will turn out dry with no shine and no definition.
So ladies stick to products made for curly/coily hair and keep hydrating!!!!!!!
I don’t know about all that. Lol I’m 4b with a sprinkling of 4a and when I was chasing curls, I’d do something I called the “curl exposing technique”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hzR1ZRSf3c
every other day-30 minutes of pre pooing with mini baggies all over my head, another 30 minutes with mini baggies of a dc concoction, then finally the final 30 minutes with mini baggies of my conditioner. *sigh* And, I will be darned my 4b hair did turn to 4a *without* any product in it BUT when I stopped the technique it was right back to 4b hair!
**Long story-short, I gave up the daily hassle and learned to love my 4b hair. **
i see ur point, but once u wash ur hair out and no products are in it, it will revert to its original state…
All Hair should be moisturized, and drinking (preferably) water, if not it, then liquids will keep you hair hydrated. I can say that if your hair has a natural curl pattern it will ALWAYS have a natural curl pattern as it grows out. If your hair DOES NOT have a curl pattern, no matter what you do no matter how many products you layer on, no matter how much you pray and techniques you use, you WILL NOT have curls if your hair does not come with curls in the first place. No matter how much you moisturize, 4c hair will never become 4a hair. They are not the same at all.
Hair is hair is hair, most shampoos all over the world have the exact same ingredients. Some have more oils, some have less surfactants, and really that’s the only difference. Same with conditioners, some are more “moisturizing” some have protein, some do not have either. They are still basically the exact same thing.
For the best shampoos, conditioners, and styling products, the best thing to is to make your own, so that you can formulate it exactly to suite your unique hair.
please don’t tell ppl not to use mane n tail and suave. i swear by suave pro sleek as well as mane n tail conditioner, as those are the ONLY products i’ve ever used that have made my coarse crown hair smooth as butter, completely dissolving tangles. no supposedly expensive “natural” brand of product has accomplished for me what those bad-ingredients-ladled condishes have.
I know I am not responding to the question asked above and quite frankly I just don’t know. I however wanted to make a comment on my natural hair. I personally cannot categorize my hair as a 4 anything. My hair In my opinion, in the state that it grows out of my head starts out as a 1. My hair starts out curly kinky straight. How can I then categorize how my hair grows naturally then as a 4 anything? A 4 or something farther from that is what my hair would become in an unnatural state. For example, If I straightened my hair.
I am not trying to start a controversy on hair textures hair. I just think it is too simplistic to categorize hair in numbers. As I mentioned above, there are at least three types of hair types that grow from my head. None of which are textures. They are just types. Straight is not a texture. Curly is not a texture and my in between hair is not a texture. What my texture is however is course.
Straight hair can be course, curly hair can be course and extremely curly hair can be course. How can I then say my hair is a 4? And who told me I needed to identify with that number? What I do identify with is the course-ness of my hair and it is that texture that I focus on when taking care of all the strands of hair in my head; not the “number.” One size does not fit all. Unless of course we are all the same.
I think there is definitely a difference. I consider my hair to be 4b but I have friends who are 4c. Their hair even when moisturized or soft does not have an innate curl pattern unless coaxed with gel.
Seriously, guys? It wasn’t that long ago that people were saying 4b hair was unmoisturized 4a hair…
I’ve been participating in online hair discussions since before “3c” was a thing so I’ve witnessed the evolution of both “3c” and “4c” as hair classifications. They were created precisely because the Andre typing system was so limited. Keep in mind that that system was pseudoscience to START WITH. The system that’s commonly used online now, as limiting as it is, really shouldn’t have Andre’s name associated with it without the words “inspired by” and/or “improved upon.” It’s due to our experiences and contributions that we’ve been able to refine that system to work better for more people. And that’s a GOOD thing IMO.
The definition of 4c hair as I understand it perfectly describes the hair texture of some members of my family as well as some friends. These people could dump a bucket of water on their heads, and follow it up with a bucket of oil and a bucket of Eco Styler, for DAYS and STILL wouldn’t see a coil. I know this because I’ve seen some of them do it (not literally of course).
Unlike them, I’ve always had a (very small, high-shrinkage) coil pattern. The reason why those coils would show up when wet but disappear when dry had nothing to do with a lack of moisture (because M&S was something else I was doing before it was a thing). It had everything to do with manipulation and product usage. This speaks to the ability to comb or pick out hair so that it LOOKS like it has no built-in curl or coil pattern. Once I learned to leave the tools alone, use products with certain ingredients, and apply them in a certain way, that’s when the “coil popping” began to happen…but that’s only because I HAD coils to begin with, unlike my 4c friends and family.
What bothers me about this topic is that it veers dangerously close to the same old tired subjectivity behind “good” and “bad” hair. To put it plainly: Is it possible that 4c hair is not LACKING anything, but is exactly what we SAY it is — a hair type like every other hair type?
As I read was reading this article, what you mentioned in the last paragraph was ringing in the back of my head. However, I think it is healthy that these ideologies are being discussed in the open to prevent any subliminal reactions that can do more harm than good.
I agree with all of this!
It’s funny because I’ve seen a few people claim their hair pattern changed when they learned to look after it properly, but that change always seems to go from 4c to 4b, or 4b to 4a. Is there a reason why looking after hair never appears to make the hair go ‘up’ in numbers and letters? And if not, why not? And what are you therefore saying about the hair at the ‘end’ of the classification? That from 4c, with care, hair can only get ‘better’? Think about it…
Here’s my theory for those that have seen their hair get ‘looser’ over time (in addition to the theory that longer hair looks looser because of gravity): maybe, *maybe* all those years of manipulating your hair, no matter how gentle you are, has broken some of the bonds in the hair meaning it can no longer curl up as tightly as it once did. Maybe.
I’ve certainly never heard people that have big-chopped twice or more and therefore know how to look after their hair better the second time round claim this ‘different curl pattern’, it only seems to come from those whose hair has lengthened, so maybe it’s effect of years of handling and the weight of added length that changes the hair, rather than how much moisture it has.
Maybe…
I read a comment the other day that stated 4c hair was the most coarse type of hair. I thought, by now, we’d seen enough YouTube videos to learn to stop generalizing afro hair.
Based on the chart, my pattern is predominately 4c coils. Tight, little coils. I wear a puff everyday, but there is not a single curl pattern that my hair can’t mimic without styling. As a matter of fact, I learned to puff my hair using the technique of a 3c curly. As it turns out, we have the similar density and texture. My curls are just tighter than hers.
I think we need to stop thinking of 4c as a hair type. It is a curl pattern. Nothing more, nothing less. Some may have fine, soft 4c curls. Some may have thick, coarse 4c curls. However, there are the factors that play a more important role in how your hair will behave than curl pattern: porosity, density, and texture.
Exactly! I believe that there four elements to your “hair type” texture i.e. coils, curls, waves etc., density, porosity, and texture 2, fineness or thickness of individual strands. All of these combined will help to take care of your hair. Since someone can have the exact density, texture1, density, but you have fine hair, and she has medium thick hair. So how you take care will be different than hers because of the strand thickness.
4C hair is real! Part of my hair curls a lot when wet and other parts have completely NO curl pattern what so ever. 4C hair in itself varies and is unique!
4C hair, in my opinion, is not the only hair that varies. All hair types vary which is why hair typing is sort of silly. There are many people who have different textures all at once on one head of hair!!!!!!! It is not an exact science so just remember that.
@ neochasez how does knowing your porosity help you? I think I have low poro hair. I have to use the l.o.c method for my hair to be moistured. Anything else doesn’t work. That’s the only way know my porosity helps me. Please share
For starters, it took trial and error and research on the ins and outs of hair porosity to realize that I can’t simply follow a regimen catered to a specific hair category (i.e. 4A, etc.). I highly suggest reading “The Science of Black Hair” to get more information on topics such as water (hard vs. soft and hot vs. cold). I had tried to use apple cider vinegar (with water as a rinse) on hair that had been rinsed with cold water to no avail…my hair needs a warm rinse to keep the cuticles open when I still apply my leave-in conditioner. It’s at this point that my cuticles can close (I use a the Kimmaytube leave-in so the pH closes my cuticles). Also, I learned that I can add things like baking soda to my conditioner to further help open up my cuticle. Apple cider vinegar closes the cuticle so it now makes sense as to why it wasn’t helping.
Also, my hair is fine and I think that also plays a role in how I choose to manage it. Someone can have similar hair texture, but with thicker hair…and with different density. And knowing that I live with hard water, I must clarify my hair once a month with a chelating shampoo to rid my hair of minerals and impurities that build up over time.
thanks for your input neochasez
What chelating shampoo do you use? Baking soda isnt enough? I know some people use it for clarifying purposes.
Could you also detail your routine/regimen/products? Please
I find this post a little rude.
I have 4C hair and it’s not dry! I am also beginning to realise that even within 4C there different type of hair.
One characteristic I have found with 4C hair is that it behaves differently to 4A and 4B hair when it is wet, twisted or plaited so it must be different. I have 4A hair at the very back so I should know!
[img]https://bglh-marketplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/queenofsheba.png[/img]
I never thought of it in this way before. I am very confused about my hair type. I could’ve sworn I was 4z before but then, I looked at some 4b girls, and said, “yes, that’s me!” then I saw some 4c girls and said the same thing! I think, because my hair isn’t very shiny, it can sometimes look like it’s 4c. So long story short, I haven’t got a clue what my hair type is but I think it’s 4c with a hint of 4b.
I definitely think the hair typing system is an area where people should tread carefully. To be fair, I’d probably classify myself as a 4C, and I do believe it is a hair type of it’s own, but I don’t think this should be an issue of debate. No two heads of hair are the same!
If someone feels that they need to classify their hair in order to look after it, then good for them, and so be it. Hair typing seems to be divisive, and while it does enable people to search for hair care methods suited to a similar texture, this should be where it ends. Hair is hair at the end of the day.
I’m going to take a stab at this at the risk of being controversial. Some people find hair typing beneficial, some do not. In regards to the classification of 4C hair, it — along with 3C hair — was never mentioned in Andre Walker’s book. Now I know he’s not end-all, be-all hair stylist, but perhaps is there is something to be said that it wasn’t included.
Nevertheless, my hair looks and functions differently according to the moisture level of my hair. I went natural before Mr. Walker unveiled his classification, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t helpful in figuring out optimal methods of handling/styling my hair. I think I have hair ranging from “3C” to “4C”. But what I did find to be the most helpful was to learn that I have fine, low porosity hair and that I live in an area with hard water. My hair can look and react very differently if I ignore these three aforementioned traits/predicaments.
What I do know is that everyone has the right to classify his or her hair as they choose and even if 4C wasn’t in Andre Walker’s initial classification…if it helps people out, then I see no problem with the 4C label. Other people’s hair — and how they classify it — is really no one’s business…
Could you please let me know what vid this is? I’d like to see what her moisturizing routine is.
Can’t say I’m an expert but since I first went natural 3 years ago, as I’ve developed better habits and discovered better products my texture has changed dramatically. More definition, less shrinkage–definitely a big enough difference to qualify as a different “type” of hair all together.
Also, when I first saw the video from Naptural85 you guys posted a few days ago, I thought, cute but my hair is tighter/less manageable than hers. Then I saw she describes herself as 4a/4b, same as me–so clearly still have a ways to go regimen-wise.
coffeeandfingernails: You can “step up” your regimen, and by all the products in the world, but at the end of the day, that doesn’t mean that your hair is going to look like Naptural 85’s. Just because she describes her hair as 4a/b and you can describe yours the same, doesn’t meant that your texture is going to mimic hers. Food for thought…
Fair point–and I really have no complaints with my hair as it is now. But seeing how dramatic the difference has been as I’ve taken better care of my hair makes me think I might be able to get a wider range of looks with even better habits.
Also keep in mind that the longer our hair gets, the looser our texture can appear. My hair texture feels different now than it did a year ago and I’m since Naptural85 has pretty long hair now, hers has loosened from the weight as well.
I was going to add that! My friend has a similar hair texture to mine, which are both 4c hair, hers is longer than mine, and most people would say that she has 4a hair because of her length. It’s past her back almost waist length. Her coils are much looser, and she always wears her hair in braids, so her braid out looks like a wavy slightly coily braid out.
Mine is only to my nose, so still really coily, but I have noticed that my twist and braid outs are more wavy and coil up more the longer my hair gets.
Look at the women who have long hair on youtube. When they do twist and braidouts, even though they all have different hair types and textures, they braidout or twistouts all look very similar, and I believe like you said, it’s because of the length of hair.
Absolutely. If one looks at Whitney’s (Napturl85) old videos, you can see her short hair had very tight coils. Her long hair still has tight coils, but the added weight and the different stretched styles makes her hair look elongated.
I hear ya, I feel the same way, I’m a 4a/b/c and I see others with the same hair types and their hair is so thick, long, healthy, and moisturized. I know that I do have a ways to go though, since I did the big chop several weeks ago, but I can say that I have seen some improvement in my hair.