by
Lisa Jean Francois
Growing up in the 80’s and 90’s I learned very early on that being Haitian wasn’t exactly the thing to be. When my family moved to a new town, my older brother and I simply hid it. Nobody asked, so we didn’t tell. Then it all began to unravel. My third grader teacher assigned a family tree diagram which forced me to reveal our heritage I recall coming home from school that day feeling dread as I told my older brother (by two years) that the jig was up. The tears came quickly, from both us, as we understood all too well what it would mean to reveal that we were Haitian. The teasing would be brutal, but tolerable. Feeling ostracized was what we feared the most.
But then we grew up, and like most people, the very thing we were teased about as children became the thing we cherished with the upmost pride. We embraced our heritage, and slowly the larger West-Indian community began to accept us. Gaining this acceptance, however, came at a price. While I had always heard family members speak with disdain about Black Americans, it wasn’t until I was a teenager when I learned that this us vs. them mentality spanned across West-Indian cultures. When I’d hear West-Indians attributing certain stereotypes to Black Americans, I found myself nodding in agreement. We were different, I insisted. We were educated. Our children were better behaved. We were hard-working. Our food tasted better. African Americans gave us all a bad name, and while we would befriend them in public, in private, we’d deride them for being stereotypical.
I carried this belief with me to college. I was even proud when white people would praise me for being different from what they’d imagined. My French last name was also a crowd-pleaser. I ate it all up with a spoon. My false pride, however, came to an abrupt halt towards the end of my freshman year when one of my white dorm-mates told me to, “Go back to Africa.” I was stunned. Surely, she couldn’t mean me? I had the perfectly straight hair. I dressed well. I made the Dean’s list. I spoke properly. How could she, in a moment of anger, reduce me to being a black face just like any other? I was different. Wasn’t I? It was a hard lesson, but she woke me up good and proper. I’ve never been the same and I’m proud that I did not go into adulthood carrying that load of self-hatred with me.
Recently, Huffington Post writer Nadege Seppou, who is of Cameroonian heritage, penned an open letter to African immigrants, urging them to not fall victim to the same belief system. She writes:
White Americans will say you are better than American blacks, but please do not fall for this trap. You will be told you behave better, work harder, and are more educated than American blacks. You will be tempted to agree and will sometimes want to shout, “YES, I’M NOT LIKE THEM, WE AFRICANS ARE DIFFERENT!” Just don’t…don’t even think it.
The praise of your acquired characteristic and culture becomes a justification for white Americans to perpetuate discriminatory treatments towards American blacks. These statements of praise have an underlying message of, “If Africans can do so well then surely racism has nothing to do with anything, therefore, American Blacks are to be blamed for their condition in America”. This problematic line of reasoning sustains cultural racism. I beg of you, refrain from nodding in agreement when you receive such faulty praise.
Indeed, West Indians, like the African immigrants described in Seppou’s letter, are guilty of the same misdeeds. In wanting to carve out a place for ourselves in a society where being black places you on the bottom rung, we have perpetuated the belief that we are better than our African American counterparts.
Caribbean culture and African culture are different than African American culture. But when we celebrate our uniqueness, it should never be to shame African American culture.
329 Responses
There is a complex and symbiotic relationship between being a black and a foreigner in this country. In some ways we are different in that we didn’t grew up or least made to feel inferior and criminalized on a daily basis implicitly and explicitly. We still have to deal with the oppressing remnants of slavery and colonialism like colourism and being other.
African Americans have fought the fight that has allowed us to get educated in these illustrious US Universities, not to have to sit at the back of the bus and many other human rights. Those opportunities granted to us by their efforts can at times make us feel we are superior and AA resentful that we are taking opportunities that are deemed theirs. The laughable part is that white women have been the most beneficiaries of the civil rights movement. So there we go again fighting over a very small piece of the pie when someone else’s eating the whole pie. Not that we should rise up in anger and resentment against white women, but it is something to be cognizant of. In being black and African our ships may have landed in different part of this continent, but we are all in the same boat now.
Great article. I’m “African American,” born and raised in Miami and I’ve definitely observed this dynamic.
Black people will do anything they can to set themselves apart from whatever they consider to be a stereotypical black person. It’s not only Caribbean versus AA versus African… it’s also a class thing. African Americans who’s reached a certain status will try to disassociate with Black Americans as a whole.
It’s so f*cked up and utterly sad we can’t take full pride in being a black person. That being something other than black is preferred. So f*cking sad.
You generalized with no examples. What are you referring to when you say this?
Ganadora, you can’t be serious, right? Historically, the achievements by Black Americans have been gained by just that, Black Americans. The hard work, sacrifice, discrimination, and such experienced by Black Americans have paved the way for immigrants from the West Indies and Africa to be able to come here and flourish. If there was no Civil Rights Movement, I doubt there would be any Black people with the achievements they have today – Black American, West Indian, or African.
Oh, and I’m 1/2 Nigerian and 1/2 Black American, so I’ve seen both sides of the coin.
“Why is it that Italians/Irish/British are able to distinguish themselves culturally without being criticized? Nobody tells them that they shouldn’t see themselves as “Italians” because “at the end of the day white is white”. This rhetoric is unheard of.”
That is a bad comparison because you’re comparing white Americans – the majority group that has never had identity/race issues – to black Americans – a minority group that has had many identity/race issues. It is unheard of because white Americans are not negatively judged by society simply because they are white, without regard to their ethnic origins. So, you wouldn’t hear a white American say to an Italian immigrant: “Hey, you can call yourself Italian if you want to, but society will still treat you as white! White is white!” That statement has no relevance to their experiences in this country and makes absolutely zero sense to them.
Secondly, the phrase “black is black” is typically not said as a means of overlooking cultural differences, since most black Americans would never claim that blacks from the Caribbean or Africa are the same as we are. When someone makes that statement, it’s typically said as a means of emphasizing that American society judges a black person by their race first. You can choose to identify as Jamaican, Nigerian, or whatever, but black Americans know from hundreds of years worth of experience in America that nothing will ever negate your blackness. Black Americans experience this when we are negatively stereotyped on sight, regardless of our personal characteristics or achievements.There are black police officers who will tell you, for example, that they have amazing experiences with white Americans when they’re in uniform, but when they’re not, they become just another black person and it becomes a completely different story.
I think it’s a hard statement to accept if you come from a country where everyone is black and your trajectory in life is not affected by your race; there’s also the fact that many black immigrants come to America with this idealistic view of what America is like without having perspective about what America is and has been like for black Americans. That being said, I do also think that some black Americans make that statement as a means of rebutting black immigrants who, for whatever reason, believe they are better than black Americans. It’s a way of bringing them back to reality. (There are black Americans who have the same attitudes towards people from the Caribbean and Africa, so by no means am I saying that black immigrants are the only people who discriminate against other blacks.)
They don’t have race/identity issues because their own people don’t have a problem with their own cultural identity. If a white person says they’re Italian, the odds of another white person saying “Yeah well White is white and being italian doesn’t mean you’re not white”
And IMO we have this issue because of people who believe this statement is ok….
“You can choose to identify as Jamaican, Nigerian, or whatever, but black Americans know from hundreds of years worth of experience in America that nothing will ever negate your blackness.”
What is that supposed to mean? Being Jamaican/Nigerian/Dominican etc. doesn’t make me or anyone else less black. Black (in modern terms) is a RACE not an ethnicity. There are black mexicans too. You can be both…
“Secondly, the phrase “black is black” is typically not said as a means of overlooking cultural differences”
Umm of course it is. Otherwise, they would say cool, I’m _____ *insert ethnicity here*. To say “black is black” to someone who expresses their cultural identity is an inherently belligerent statement. True unity doesn’t dismiss differences, it connects in spite of them.
Most people who refer Race (instead of culture) to likeness have never been to another country or left the tourist bubble when they went there.
There are unbelievable cultural differences between white British people and white Spanish people. To say “White is White” in response to their differences in culture would be insane. And quite frankly would be incredibly ignorant…
America has exploited black Americans far more than it has exploited any individual country – black, white, or brown – so why you believe it necessary for black Americans to understand “how much America has exploited predominantly black/brown countries around the world” is beyond me. The only group who has been exploited as much by America are the Native Americans.
Secondly, it’s rather ignorant to assume that black Americans do not already understand that America has treated other nations poorly. You seem to know very little about the history of the people you seem to think you know so much about. Black Americans have a long history of resisting American actions overseas which would benefit white America, but do not benefit minorities and would actually hurt the people of the country in question. Muhammad Ali and his refusal to fight in Vietnam is just one of many examples. Both my father and at least one uncle were “draft dodgers” during Vietnam for the same reason.
Having Americanism shoved down your throat tends to happen when you live in America. The solution, of course, is to not live here. It would be like me going to Jamaica and complaining that black American culture is overlooked by Jamaicans and that Jamaican culture is shoved down my throat. That is the reality of being foreign-born in any country and is not unique to black immigrants to America.
Welcome to race in America. Your experience is a legacy of the one-drop rule. You’d be surprised to know that most African Americans are actually genetically both African and European (sometimes Native American, as well, but less so) as a result of the frequent raping of black women during slavery, yet we’ve only ever been considered “black”, “negro”, or whatever the term was that was being used at the time. This served the purpose of ensuring that white supremacy continued in America, while also protecting the “purity” of the white race. The mindset persists today without many people realizing where it originates. In America, a person with African ancestry has always been defined by that African ancestry. American society has never cared whether you’re from Alabama, Antigua, or Angola – or whether your grandfather was white. If you have African ancestry, you’re black.
I guess someone had better let people like Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass, and black Union soldiers (such as my 3rd great grandfather) know that they aren’t responsible for African Americans’ freedom – Haitians are. Your post is a huge overstatement. Firstly, the enslavement of African Americans lasted for over a half-century after the Haitian Revolution and Jim Crow didn’t end until the 1960s. Thus, the Haitian Revolution is not “the reason black Americans enjoy freedoms in America”. The rights that African Americans enjoy today are largely the product of our own fights and our own advocacy (though that is not to say that other minority groups or peoples didn’t contribute). African Americans’ Civil Rights fight was, in fact, duplicated by oppressed peoples in other countries all over the world in the 20th century.
The Haitian Revolution was huge symbolically for oppressed people in other countries and served as inspiration for many enslaved and free African Americans, but let’s also remember that despite being ruled by Europeans, Haiti was a black-majority country. That type of uprising could never have been successfully duplicated by enslaved blacks in the United States, where blacks have always been vastly outnumbered by whites. Every time an uprising of enslaved African Americans occurred, it was inevitably quashed. Therefore, African American freedom required tactics that were unique to the situation in the United States and were vastly different from those used by people in Haiti.
And you do realize that none of the achievements of 1st/2nd/3rd generation Americans would even be possible without African Americans having paved the way in every respect, right? It was the Civil Rights Act of 1964, a law that was primarily the product of the work of African Americans, which made it illegal to discriminate against someone not just based on their race, but also their national origin. America as it is now – a place where a non-white immigrant can come and make a huge success of him/herself – is a new America that African Americans have worked hard to achieve. You are now reaping the benefits of that hard work without having had to do any of that work. And even now, African Americans are still the most politically active minority group (as we’ve always been) and are still working hard to make America a place that is rid of systemic discrimination.
As for African Americans “doing better” because we’re “benefiting” from America’s resources – really? Firstly, the more cogent argument is that since Caribbean countries have black governments and blacks are the majority there – unlike African Americans – they should be the ones “doing better”. They make their own rules, run their own economies, have control of government money, and have no one to discriminate against them on the basis of their race inside their countries. Yet, Caribbean immigrants came to America – a white majority country – to try to make successes of themselves and take advantage of the rights earned by African Americans. Let’s also remember that slavery was abolished in most Caribbean countries decades before it was abolished in America. Granted, those countries were still under the thumb of the British Empire even after slavery, but even then, there was nothing comparable to the Jim Crow system endured by African Americans for 100 years into the late 1960s.
Secondly, do you not know America’s history – including our very recent history? Arican Americans have been here for hundreds of years – fighting in every war and literally building this country for free – and yet, my parents couldn’t buy a house in their preferred neighborhood because they were black. The neighborhood in which they were allowed to purchase a house had severely underfunded schools and no decent jobs; predictably, that neighborhood became a ghetto. Mind you, this wasn’t 1950s Mississippi – it was 1970s Chicago. In fact, my family’s story is the story of how every American ghetto came to be.
So, when you talk about America having resources and African Americans benefiting from them, you’d do well to remember that many of us NEVER had access to the resources of which you speak and have had to work harder than most Americans just to be middle class and access decent resources.
You are right African Americans have fought the fight that has allowed us to get educated in these illustrious US Universities, not to have to sit at the back of the bus and many other human rights. Those opportunities granted to us by their efforts can at times make us feel we are superior and AA resentful that we are taking opportunities that are deemed theirs. The laughable part is that white women have been the most beneficiaries of the civil rights movement. So there we go again fighting over a very small piece of the pie when someone else’s eating the whole pie. Not that we should rise up in anger and resentment against white women, but it is something to be cognizant of. In being black and African our ships may have landed in different part of this continent, but we are all in the same boat now.
There is a complex and symbiotic relationship between being a black and a foreigner in this country. In some ways we are different in that we didn’t grew up or least made to feel inferior and criminalized on a daily basis implicitly and explicitly. We still have to deal with the oppressing remnants of slavery and colonialism like colourism and being other.
I would never see myself as being above American Blacks because I am West Indian because at the end of the days, we are all Black. We may have grown up in different cultures, but we should teach each other instead of being divisive. I do not think that there is one singular way to be Black just like there is no one way to be White, Asian. Latino, African, etc.
I’d like to expand the conversation then as I’m glad you bring up this concern about xenophobia, erasure and privilege that you say African-Americans have and exude. African-Americans do not enjoy privilege over non-American black people in the US in anywise, in fact, we are seen as inferior and lazy because that is the narrative that is ascribed us by popular culture here. The xenophobia of which you speak is not widespread, and that of it which does exist is a direct response to the treatment we receive by non-American black people that by and large have the same disdain toward us mentioned by this article. Originally, we welcomed all Africans regardless of ethnic origin and saw them as our brothers and sisters. This sentiment was not widely reciprocated. At the end of the day, much of this has to do with the former colonizers and the methods they have employed over the years to combat the perceived threat of African unity and cooperation as it arose in the post-civil rights era.
Although I do agree with you that much of the attitudes we have towards each other as black people in the diaspora stem from a colonizers lens, it does not take away privileges that certain black people have over other groups of black people, which also stems from said colonization.
When I speak of black/African Americans, I am speaking of social conditioning as opposed to individuals. I assumed this was understood.
And of course black/African Americans experience discrimination by non-US black people, I never stated otherwise. I said, “…let us please add some context to this dialogue” because this was a one-sided piece (which is expected of a personal piece) that centred non-US black peoples discriminatory attitudes towards black/African Americans. However, black/African-Americans also hold these attitudes towards non-US black people through means of xenophobia, erasure and centering.
Also, I spoke of when black/African Americans travel or live outside of the US when I stated, “black/African Americans have privilege(s) over non-US black people, especially when they travel outside of the US”. I don’t know if you have traveled or lived outside of the US but it is never more evident of the privilege(s) black/African Americans have over non-US black people, especially in reference to housing, employment, etc. These privilege(s) experienced by black/African Americans outside of the US are by far and large an extension of American colonization and its foreign policies, especially in countries with predominantly black and brown people.
There are other privilege(s) experienced within the diaspora. English-speaking black people over non-english speaking black people, black cis-gender men over black women, etc etc. I already discussed this in my first post. We all have the choice to acknowledge privilege but I no longer expect that acknowledgement from the from the people who have and move through the world with said privileges.
You also posed some other valid points regarding black/African Americans welcoming ‘all Africans regardless of ethnic origin and saw them as our brothers and sisters’. I don’t know what resources you have to support this statement but I have countless resources and research that proves the opposite. However, I am not going continue this post as it slowly becoming an essay.
Thank you for pointing that some of the the prejudices can be reciprical. I had Affrican Americans say things like you are Haitian but you don’t look Haitian. You are not ugly and dark. Or do you practice voodoo since you are Haitian?
There is a complex and symbiotic relationship between being a black and a foreigner in this country. In some ways we are different in that we didn’t grew up or least made to feel inferior and criminalized on a daily basis implicitly and explicitly. We still have to deal with the oppressing remnants of slavery and colonialism like colourism and being other.
African Americans have fought the fight that has allowed us to get educated in these illustrious US Universities, not to have to sit at the back of the bus and many other human rights. Those opportunities granted to us by their efforts can at times make us feel we are superior and AA resentful that we are taking opportunities that are deemed theirs. The laughable part is that white women have been the most beneficiaries of the civil rights movement. So there we go again fighting over a very small piece of the pie when someone else’s eating the whole pie. Not that we should rise up in anger and resentment against white women, but it is something to be cognizant of. In being black and African our ships may have landed in different part of this continent, but we are all in the same boat now.
We should, but we all know why we aren’t…let’s not play the blame game here though
I wasn’t playing the blame game. I replied to a post that implied that black/African Americans are superior to other non-US black people.
It’s one-sided because it stems from her personal experience
“Although I recognize, acknowledge and appreciate this post by Lisa Jean Francois, it is very one sided, which is expected of a personal piece.” – the first sentence in my response.
Notice how I mentioned it being expected to be one-sided because it is a personal piece.
Although I recognize, acknowledge and appreciate this post by Lisa Jean Francois, it is very one sided, which is expected of a personal piece.
I hope this conversation is expanded to speak about xenophobia, erasure, centering and privilege black/African Americans have and exibit towards non-US black people. This is also a serious issue that is often, if not always, over looked. In the same sense that cis-gender black men centre their bodies, their struggles, their voices, their narrative over those of black women, black/African Americans do that to non-US black people. Just like cis-gender black men have certain privilege(s) over black women, or hetero black women have privilege(s) over queer black women, etc etc, black/African Americans have privilege(s) over non-US black people, especially when they travel outside of the US. So let us please add some context to this dialogue.
This is awesome! As an African-American, I have often experienced disdain from Caribbeans, and i believe black immigrants have probably had their share of experiences being criticized by African-Americans as well, but I was always of the belief that it is the “divide and conquer” mentality. It only benefits one group of people for us to constantly be trying to figure out who the better slave is (sort of speak). I’m so glad you chose to no longer be a victim of that mentality. Whether we like it or not, all of us around the world have been impacted my white supremacy or colonialism, and we all have an interest in dismantling it.
But don’t African Americans have more history and achievements far more than any other group of blacks I think you would have to compare all the other blacks around the world to equate to wait African Americans have done
First of all, no you don’t have more history and achievements far more than any other ‘group of blacks’. And, you do realize that many of the history and achievements that black/African Americans have are by immigrants and 1st/2nd/3rd generation Americans, right?
Also, America, the country, has more resources and black/African Americans benefit from those resources (which are mostly exploits of predominantly black and brown countries and labour), so you should be ‘doing better’ than anyone else.
by whose standards?
HAITIANS ARE NOT WEST INDIAN. You should do your research before spreading misinformation. Again, HAITIANS ARE NOT WEST INDIAN.
Bleh, they’re caribbean so it doesn’t matter
So is the case for Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Dominicans. It does matter. There is a big difference between Caribbean and West Indian. It only doesn’t matter to the next generation filled with anti-intellectuals, anti-rationalists and other proud-to-be-morons. Haitians are not WEST INDIAN, they’re Caribbean.
um, West Indian is the group of people from or inhabiting the region of the West Indies. if you didn’t know, the West Indies are the Caribbean, before you talk about “anti-intellectuals” do your research before you make a bold claim. Carribean people have different labels thanks to different names given to the region and whatever they go by does not matter as long as you know their the same thing.
My ex-husband is African and his disdain for my people and our culture was always a point of contention. My own daughter once referred to me as “you people.” Don’t worry I quickly set her straight reminding her, “Anybody could be yo daddy. It’s for sure I’m yo mama.” Our sons have also expressed to me that he speaks so badly of Black Americans that they’ve had to remind him, “Dad, we’re your kids too.” The really sad thing is he’s oblivious to the fact that he’s just a pawn. He really thinks he’s better.
God, I’m really sorry you went through that. And it doesn’t surprise me your daughter said that to you. I’ve heard stories from friends (I’m Somali BTW) when the civil war happened in Somalia a daughter telling her own mother “It’s our turn now and we’ll get our day in the sun”. Mind you her father’s tribe was slaughtering her mother’s tribe. And She was never raised by her father’s tribe but her mother’s. I Think Africans are stupid. Not all but some. And their stupidity sometimes is hereditary. I love African Americans. I feel that we need to come together and build a relationship that would rival the U.N. When Chinese Americans are treated poorly it is the Chinese government that sends a powerful message to the U.S. When Italians were lynched by a mob in 1891Italy cut off diplomatic relations with the U.S. That’s what I want from Countries in Africa. I want all of us to unite. It isn’t a coincidence that every dark skinned community on the planet (India, Australia, South Africa, Haiti) lives less than the fairer skinned neighbors.
After I read the book, King Leopold’s Ghost – I knew without a doubt how the game worked. Once upon a time I worked for a law-firm, and met a young-lady from the Congo. She barely spoke to me, and chose to spend all her time with “Americans”. It took time, but I finally became acquainted with her, enough to recommend the book for her reading pleasure. I chose THIS book, because it was written by an “American” (which carries more weight with some), and because she was from that region. I advised her, that IF, she read it, she would be changed and I would know it (because she would change her perception of herself, her heroes, and me – meaning my people). IF, she didn’t read it, I would know that too, because I would never hear from her again (case closed, end of story – helpless). Her, PRIDE (took the bait), and she read it. She came back to me, after weeks – in tears and pain, because SHE realized it was she who was brainwashed (right there at home, in the Congo). It was she who had fallen to the colonization, and manipulation. It was she who was self-hating and blindly loving her oppressor, and not us (blacks, negroes, Hebrews). We (in fact), were more “educated” than most who reach these shores (because we have survived this shit, to see another day).
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Thumbs up a thousand times. I’m gonna read this book.
Wow, what a relief, thanks for this! Now I know that I am not crazy and finally have explanation for what I have been experiencing. It’s not just me and my imagination. Within my worship context of what has become a majority Caribbean / West Indian population, I as an African American have been living the phenomena in your article and found this to be a pronounced and yes, painful, issue for me. Expecting everyone to come together spiritually in the name of Christ the Lord with an open heart and “kumbaya” together (since we’re all of African descent), and then observing real attitudes of disdain, competitiveness, suspicion and favoritism has been disillusioning to say the least. But I understand now that people don’t automatically drop their issues at the door when they come to worship, as there are also Americans who retain ugly, sinful heart attitudes. Now experiencing in a real pronounced way what it is to be a minority very acutely, I suppose that somewhere I had some American entitlement / privilege, but I have never been that person that sought to lord it and make others feel unwelcome, rather the opposite, especially in the context of worship. The whole matter has really made me quite weary and with a desire to change churches, even though I realize spiritually that I must be divinely led and guided in my decision and not reactive. No matter what the outcome and when it is to be determined, at least I finally know now what is going on… thank you so much for the article.
This is terribly annoying to presume the civil rights struggle was simply relegated to African American Natives. The civil rights struggle was carried out by all black people in the USA and the Caribbean! Being Black in America, doesn’t mean your ancestors were only located in mainland America. Slave owners moved slaves between their plantations in the USA and Caribbean. I can trace my ancestors to generations of American Native born, to their brothers and sisters in the Caribbean and back. It’s so ridiculous that people make these ignorant statements. Black people of all ‘stripes’ fought the civil rights movement that catapulted the American civil rights movement. Marcus Garvey is one such person.
http://www.biography.com/people/marcus-garvey-9307319
Black. Regardless of whether you’re Afto-Italian, Afro-Indian, etc. Afro means black. Be proud of it.
I think you miss the point that even Africans dropped off in the West Indies were also stripped of their culture. As Africans in the new world however, we created our memories of our homeland passed down along the way. Go to the south and you will see, feel and hear taste the remnants of our African ancestry enmeshed into the cultures of the new world..This became our African American culture. It’s as much our African American culture as the Caribbean peoples who created their own based on their geographical influences.. The Black Diaspora is very creative, regardless of our longitude and latitudinal axes
It is true that Caribbean peoples have been able to hold on to more of their African culture when compared to African Americans. Caribbean nations were black-majority nations, despite being ruled by Europeans. This is not the case in America, which was made up of settler colonies and has always been overwhelmingly European. Blacks were inevitably influenced by Europeans in large measure due to those frequent daily interactions with them.
It is no coincidence that African Americans who reside in the Low Country (a region made up of isolated South Carolina and Georgia islands that are inhabited almost exclusively by African Americans) have a culture that is rather different from African American culture at large. They have been able to maintain many African traditions because, during slavery, Europeans generally did not live on their plantations on those islands because they were vulnerable to the tropical diseases there. Interestingly, some people from the South Carolina/Georgia Low Country will tell you that they have often been mistaken by outsiders as being from Jamaica because of their accent and dialect. They also have the highest percentage of African DNA of any African American community (some have tested at 100% Sub-Saharan African).
Great point. I am West Indian and I know for a fact there is a AA culture. I will start with great food, Music, Arts, people, etc. I once dated a AA from down south, maan I was called the most darling of pet names. Love you guys.
The name of the game is divide and conquer. In reality black is Black. Yes, Some whtes in power (and blacks too) will make a distinction between Black people of the Carribbean and South America vs. Blacks from Africa vs. Blacks from the USA. Ultimately the same discrimination applies in job hunting, getting a mortgage, salary inequities, etc. Ultimately black peoples of the world have more in common with each other than they do with the Whites.
Each person regardless of his/her cultural background has talent they have as individuals and steer clear of creating enemies. Don’t hide your origin. Embrace it. Know your own strengths and don’t spend a lot of time comparing uyourself t othewr people.
The hypocrisy of whites is so prevalent.
Take Rihanna and Beyonce.
I’ve seen racist comments by whities on Beyonce’s instagram, calling her a monkey, saying that her daughter looks like an ape.
Rihanna gets nothing.
I see AA saying the same about Blue and J. Sad
I’m British African and I used to think like this (a tiny bit). I’m 15 now but I’m glad I’ve stopped.
I get it on both sides. My mother is trinidadian, and my father is jamaican. I was born and raised in america and i feel i dont fit in with my carribean roots. They treat me like an african american even though my roots are carribean. I have been on the side of the fence where i hear my family talking aboit black americans. And ive been on the side where im treated like a regular black american. Its sad but thats the way it is.
I feel similarly to you. My father is African American and my mother is Antiguan, I didn’t struggle with terms of black, African American or British West Indian though I tried to identify through each one and I never found the sweet spot. In my house hold we never derided West Indians or Americans who are black. There are mindsets that are remarkably different but never to the point of us vs them. In my house were are us AND them.
Yes but why do we care what the racist person sees or thinks though?
I get this in theory, but the point I was making is that we simply don’t think this way. Americans might not know this but you CAN tell Africans apart just by looking visually. And we grow up doing this all the time, so when I see someone, I might come inside my house and say something like “There’s an Edo woman and two Yoruba men standing outside.”
We simply don’t grow up reaching for “black” as the first descriptor for a person so it’s very hard to shift into that mindset even if you move to a new country.
And even though that’s the way it is in America, as a Nigerian it makes me very uncomfortable to be primarily identified as black when I think of myself primarily as Igbo.
Does that mean that people from African countries shouldn’t be supportive towards black Americans? No.
And there’s a real problem of hostility between black Americans and black Africans.
I think what black Americans need to realize is that it’s not personal. To me as an Igbo person, people of other ethnicities are just as alien as people from other races. There’s no automatic “in” just because we all have the same brown skin.
The same way a Hausa person doesn’t automatically feel at home with a black American person is the same way they also don’t feel at home with an Igbo person either.
You’re either Hausa or you’re not. Being black is kinda irrelevant.
Culture is incredibly important to us, and once you have a different culture we classify you as foreign/alien irrespective of what you look like.
Black American culture is just as strange to me as Wolof culture, as Kikuyu culture, as Wodabe culture. They’re all in the same group to me – the group of foreign to my own Igbo culture.
On the other hand black Americans see it as “we all look alike so we should automatically identify with each other” whereas, we don’t see that way at all.
Interesting. Makes sense. I see differences in appearances in different African ethnic groups but many times I can’t pin the features to a specific group. Well I can usually tell someone is East African but Nigerian I usually get from accent. The same way if someone from an African country far from Nigeria came to your door you might not immediately know their ethnicity.
Most of my close friends are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. I don’t get what the “issues” are between people. I know my friend from Argentina told me he hates Domincans and Puerto Ricans. My Puerto Rican friend hates Mexicans. My Vietnamese friend dislikes Koreans. SMH! I don’t have animosity toward any group of people.
“Im not sure how I feel about the tone of this article. It suggests that
carribean and african cultures are more synonymous than african American
cultures vs african/Caribbean cultures.”
Exactly! I picked that up too. This post is thinly masked buffoonery and self-righteousness being passed off as some outstretched olive branch. Chile, PLEASE!
TRUTH.
PLEASE stop with this masked self-contempt and melodrama.
Wow. That’s what you took from her comment? Smh
Anybody else think it’s cool that her name is Lisa Frank?
Ive always heard that Africans did not like African Americans.As i got older, traveled abroad and met different people, i came to believe that all black people loved each other and that that was just a thing we had been told to keep us seperate. Honestly, they try to play the same trick on us in america. They show us starving children in Africa, mass murders or makeshift rafts filled with Haitian peope washing up on us soil;only to be pushed away and refused entry . we hear nothing of the modern cities and beautiful cultures.
This is the 2nd article in 2 weeks that has rejected or talked of the african Americans as being unequal or unworthy. one urged us not to wear african clothing saying we were appropriating their culture because we were not african. its heartbreaking to even imagine that our brothers and sisters in the motherland and abroad feel this way. When we contribute and help sustain the Caribbean economy and fight when we see you also being treated unjustly.
its ridiculous really…know matter what anyone tells you, if you are of african desent, you are looked at as 2nd class a nigger. period. end of story. you are a decendant of slaves. period. Africans were enslaved through colonization. white Europeans owned every corner of africa. period………we are all in the same boat. the plan is to destroy marginalize and profit and use all of us.
They did not own every corner of Africa, ask the Ethiopians about that ;-).
You hit the nail on the head. People with dark skin color are just used to make money and entertainment. Fat jokes, football/basketball, singers and performers, service industry workers…it is okay for blacks to be that but if you try anything else you are not accepted even to the point that some blacks will ask, “Why are you selling out to the man?” This greatly saddens me that everyone can CLEARLY see we are human but idiots let skin color drive stereotypes, hate and everything else dictate how a man or woman is going to be treated. This is world round and it is maddening.
I’ve always love being Black, African American. I’m mystified by self hatred because of skin color. I was taught to research true history of Africa’s Great Black Civilizations from birth. I know European and America propaganda BS lies so can dispute and challenge BS of stereotypes. The history of my African American ancestors here in America who shed their blood for the human and civil rights hugely benefitted all people of color and women. They are reasons West Indians others enjoy freedoms in America and the opportunities to succeed.
CORRECTION: It was not just African Americans who fought on behalf of black people in this nation. Beginning in the 1500s when the Spaniards first landed on North American soil bringing their west indian human property here as “slaves”, Afro-Caribbean people have made many sacrifices on behalf of black people in this country. The Civil Rights Era is one of the best examples of how black people from all walks of life came together to fight a common cause during the 20th century. Many Civil Rights activists were of Caribbean heritage (partial) or were born in the islands before migrating to the United States. They played a significant role in the rights of black immigrants and local African Americans alike.
Your last two sentences illuminate your limited research. Had your depth and breadth of research been as comprehensive as you suggest, then you would’ve eliminated those comments. Having studied World history, I know the history and struggles of African Americans and Caribbean Americans. We must also include the struggles of Africans in South and Central America. Simply because they’re not in the textbooks you’ve chosen for your research, doesn’t mean they should be negated. Marcus Garvey was Caribbean. Toussaint L’Ourture from Haiti and many more. Haiti fought for and received their freedom before America did. They were asked for their help to free the USA and they did it willingly. The history goes very deep between Africans in the west. Please don’t discountn the struggles of some, to highlight the accomplishments of others. Haiti fought, so America could be free.
BTW,, many African Americans have roots in the Caribbean and many Caribbean peoples, have roots in the USA; no thanks to the slaveowers moving slaves around. Your foreparents can’t be because they were trekked to the Caribbean during cane harvesting season in the islands.
Another excellent point.
Excellent point.
And the Haitian Revolution was the first free country in the western hemisphere, which lead to ‘freedom’ for all oppressed people. So this is the reason black Americans enjoy freedoms in America.
There were numerous people instrumental to the American Civil Rights Movement who had West Indian nationality or heritage. Malcolm X, Harry Belafonte, and Stokely Carmichael, Nina Simone, Shirley Chisholm, for starters.
Emjay Mangual, was it racism or prejudice? West Indian immigrants don’t have power or control of systems in this country, so they can’t really use their prejudice to impact your life (although they may have done so, to a limited extent, in your example). There were two West Indian women involved in this incident, right? There are millions–let me repeat–MILLIONS of West Indian women in this world, quite a few of which live in the NY tri-state area. You can’t stereotype millions of people off of one incident with two women. Unless, you just want to, because you can. I encourage you, Emjay, to look at the African-American stereotypes and think about how unfair many of those stereotypes are to African-Americans. Then, exercise some empathy and love. As they say, spread love, then things can change. Peace always.
Yes, DreaMLC, I know about Queens (father’s side of family lives in Queens/Long Island),because I used to visit almost every weekend as a teenager. I try to explain these things to people outside the tri-state area but I guess you had to live it to understand. My family members were in England, too. When I was in school they called me British, teased me about my proper speech, different attire — English ribbons and patent leather lol. I think at that timthis is di were strange/different to African -Americans; they probably just didn’t understand us.
In my opinion, some of the problem has to do with perspectives. It seems that Caribbean and African immigrants want to hold onto their respective cultures, while many African Americans prefer immigrants to assimilate. However, assimilation is not always ideal, because it stifles free will, creativity, cultural expression, self-determination, etc. Also, assimilation for some means that black immigrants would all somehow transform into African Americans. But this would be disingenuous, for you can’t just become someone else. You can only be yourself. True unity is accepting everyone’s similarities and differences. All black groups have something to contribute to the whole. That’s Pan-Africanism. That’s African unity. That’s the Red, Black and Green. That’s Unapologetically African! Jah bless.
*at that time we were strange/different
Finally, someone who understands!
Why red, black and green. The PAN right? I like the Red, Gold and Green (ights, gold and green as we call it back in the Caribbean LOL)
This hit home with me. Being of Indian descent and half black. My mother is Indian from Trinidad and an African American father. I learned quickly though as long as you have black in you in America…..baby you black….not African black, not haitian black not, Jamaican black, heck even when your black and white your still black
Geographically, neither is Guyana…
Interesting take on things, Francois. I would like to mention, however, that ONLY approximately 4% of ENSLAVED AFRICANS were brought to the US…That means that nearly 96% of US, are “somewhere outside of their white bubble!!!” …Really, I think MOST of them know that so-called “Blacks” exist outside of the USA :-)!! Perhaps maybe, WE are the ones who SEEMS not to know that!! Oh, and just for the record, THE LONGER YOU STAY IN THE USA, the MORE you will come to act, behavior, and LOOK with the “DREADED AFRICAN-AMERICANS!!!” Doubt it? Just look at how each new generation of Caribo-, Continental African immigrant LOSE the traditions of their parents!!! Now, think 3-more generations…American AFRICAN are not genetically different, them are socially created over the course of years!! Look at them/us in the 1960s, 1950s, and 1940s…US Africans were as conservative, hard-working, and more united JUST LIKE YOU like to think of yourselves!! Think about it…PLEASE!
First of all I was raised until 19 in Haiti then I moved to the USA for college and stayed for personal reasons. This article is referring to people like me.
You’re telling me that my mind has shifted towards the “DREADED AFRICAN-AMERICANS!!!” mentality due to the fact that I’ve relocated myself closer to them? So forget about my ability to make my own observations with the data out there showing the unfolding of the oppression of black people everywhere on earth? To that I’m saying that white oppression/ignorance is true, it’s planetary, and that we should, as Afro immigrants from ALL the corners of the earth, start seeing African Americans as direct brothers, that we should not let ourselves be encouraged as black immigrants to dismiss African American pledges for better treatment just because we can come in, have a different perspective and make different decisions for ourselves; so many good examples have shown to us that this will not matter if we are murdered or exploited by the same oppressors.
From what I’ve red in this article I’m replying to the fact that ALL black people regardless of your geographical birthplace or upbringing will face the challenges provided to you by the white bubble / white supremacy. It just plays out with a different tune depending on your geographical location. For the USA it was Slavery and Jim Crow, for Australia it was genocide, for Haiti it was embargo and abuse, for Africa it’s theft of natural resources and debt.
I’m sure you can grow up in many places on earth as a black person preoccupied by other things other than racism and never having to deal with white supremacy and destructive systemic conditioning as much as the African Americans do. It is not however a reason for the Afro Immigrant living in the USA to patronize them, to feel superior, to try to blame them of a lack of anything. You are still a n…. with a different flavor to the white man regardless of your country of origin, achievement, culture, etc. You just get to be subjected to it differently, depending on extreme factors. That’s just the status of racial relations between whites and blacks right now on the planet.
Come to the United States, you will have your same African or Afro Latino or Afro European or Afro Caribbean values and probably make better decisions then the local blacks, still you will meet the unpleasant situation of watching racism unfold against the African American or maybe against you.
It does not mean that educational or material progress cannot be achieved but the price to pay by a black man is simply put unacceptable. So black people around the planet should be in this altogether.
You SEEM truly lost!! HOW does being drop off from a neighboring island make you a different ethnicity?? THINK!!!
HOW long will it take for you to understand that what whites think, OR how YOU may show your ignorance about Asian CULTURAL different, does not matter IF IT IS NOT CORRECT!!! Your reasoning how is simply FALSE!!
I guess you just may need someone of European descent to tell you and you are wrong to understand it!! Good luck CameronJada…don’t get yourself hurt one day BY THE TRUTH!!
A different ethnicity denotes a different nationality, culture & customs despite belonging to an identical racial group. Caribbean peoples have different customs from U.S blacks just as there are cultural differences between Irish, Italians or whites of German ancestry. However, in the U.S.A race is more important than cultural identity. Race is political & it trumps culture in America. Therefore, all blacks are lumped together just as all whites are lumped together as one.
This was a very sad day for me: I almost gave up my social media activism! Two unrelated incidents:
1.This black girl called her African boyfriend an African monkey just because she was angry at my friend!
2.An African female friend of mine called her hair dresser a cotton picker ( Akata) because she stood her up!
I am disappointed at all of us!
smh “AKATA” does not mean cotton picker.
It is a yoruba term which means “cat that has lost it’s home/wild cat”.
What so many people fail to realize is that our ancestors are the same! We were jsut dropped off in different places. As an African American woman I absolutely hate that we dont have a real culture to connect to like those from the West Indies, etc. We as African Americans were stripped of our culture and the ones that we create for ourselves is often mocked and then stolen by the dominant culture. Know that we are all one!
Thank you for this timely advise & rule of thumb!
“If Africans can do so well then surely racism has nothing to do with anything, therefore, American Blacks are to be blamed for their condition in America”.
Pass it along!!
I am so hurt after reading these comments look what they done to us. I love my African and Caribbean sisters and brothers. As African Americans we were taught to hate ourselves. I’m so sorry we treated you’ll with same nastiness, it’s the remnants of slavery and now your victims of internal racism. I want so much more for us as people, none of us want this oppression it hurts so bad and it’s so deep.
From the first day I arrived in this country – my Guyanese dad told me that I was not better than African Americans. He told me that it was the strategy – to divide and conquer. To convince us Caribbean people that were better so they could be absolved of the racism and the hate that defines this country. Once I understood it – it was clear to me that Black Americans have fought the fight – and we have come into their country and we were able to thrive on the backs of the marches, the dogs, the fire hoses, and all the degrading treatment that they suffered. No I am not one of those Caribbean people. I am a Trinidadian – proud but thankful for all that African Americans endured so that ALL of us who have come – could achieve.
Tell your Dad I said he’s awesome!
Excellent, excellent, excellent!! And, congratulations on be blessed with a father who understood geo-political realities!! You can see after reading this Sista’s article, that your father’s advice has placed you are ‘WAY ahead of the game!’ Ase ooo
THANK YOU!!!!! And God bless your father…,we love you guys and see you as our brothers and sister but oftentimes the sentiment you just expressed is never expressed.
This is what happens when you want to raise your child well. You educate them to life’s realities. You have a good father and a clarity many lack.
late to the thread as a fellow West Indian thanks for saying this
Smart dad!
This is only a real factor in NYC, true ignorance. Oprah Winfrey is one of the richest women in the world, and she still has problems with racism. I guess she wouldnt have those problems if she was from the caribbean? Wake up people this is self hatred, and the need to put others down so you feel better about yourself. Money beauty nor fame will save you from the racism in America. Educate yourself because in other states you experience more discrimination being a black foreigner.
Having a superiority complex is always toxic and it is always based on lies and false pride. I applaud thus writer’s honesty and courage on this important topic. It would seem that Indigenous people and African Americans made such huge sacrifices to pave the way for other minorities to experience greater equality, only to slip further down the totem pole while they move up with ease. On another note, In college, I spent time with both the African and Caribbean student organizations. They were welcoming to all.
We are ALL Africans, dropped off of the boat in different locations….that’s ALL!!!!
Thanks you for acknowledging that there is a difference between Africans, African Americans (or Black Americans, the name changes so much), and West Indian/Caribbean Americans. I don’t think one is better than the other. More often than not in big cities like NYC, Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, etc. we all live among each other and get along. We are all Black but have different cultures, ethnicities, come from different countries with different languages and histories. Sometimes, White America only wants to acknowledge the difference when they want to pose us against each other hahahhha. But otherwise, they treat us like they treat Asians….you know, they think all Asians are Chinese hahahha. Thanks for the blog post!
We are all Black people however African American and Afro-Caribbean are separate and distinct ethic groups. The same way you have many Irish-Americans and German-Americans but they’re both White.
Thank You!
We are all AFRICAN PEOPLE!!! Because enslavers dropped one person off on an different island DOES NOT MAKE YOU A DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUP!!! At more, you may have develop some CULTURAL difference, and thus can claim a CULTURAL DIFFERENCE…But, “ethnic;’ can on — think about it!!! Angela Bruce Rayburn’s father got it right long ago…IT IS A “DIVIDE AND CONQUER” technique, which, unfortunately, has been working extremely well on us for CENTURIES!!! BREAK THE CYCLE, Diaspora, and Continental, AFRICANS!!!!
We are all of African descent, yes! But if I were to walk into any country in Africa today, I would stick out like a sore thumb. I don’t know their culture, customs, or traditions. I am not African! My Ghanian friends are African, my Jamaican friend isn’t.
I understand we want to reclaim our heritage and I do. I love my Blackness and my African roots, but if you say I’m African, I’m going to correct you.
PS: Both Ireland and German could both fit into many, individual, African countries, old empires, and/or Ethnic enclave of today….A big problem SEEMS TO BE that only when Africa and its descendants are discussed, there is a HUGE confusion about the identities, and terms, or: CITIZENSHIP, CULTURAL GROUPS, ETHNIC GROUPS, and RACIAL GROUPS!!! The race is Homo Sapiens, unless people are trying to discriminate against certain groups FOR POLITICAL REASONS, usually!! The ethnic groupings are African, Europe, Asian, and other MAJOR phenotype-different groups!! The cultural groups tend to be those differences AROUND DAILY lifestyle uniquenesses, usually found WITHIN ethnicities!! Culture = LIFESTYLE!! Etc., etc., etc…Do some reading as opposed to ‘only listening!!’ Again, these confusions tend to be used to DIVIDE and CONQUER, Bryce!
You have no idea what ethnicity means do you? Race is a social construct that we all participate in. Our species is Homo sapiens. Our race (or rather mine) is Black. My ethnicity is African American and Afro-Caribbean.
If you think culture = lifestyle you are very misinformed. A culture is a way of life of a group of people, the behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that they accept, generally without thinking about them, and that are passed along by communication and imitation from one generation to the next. That’s much more than “lifestyle”.
I haven’t had any issues with Caribbean folks at all.
The only Africans that I have issues with are cab drivers in my area. One of them refused to pick me and other African Americans up (this was before Uber came about).
So what??? Does that mean that this is not an issue FOR OTHERS??? Dee, people will not tell you, but commenting on your SOLELY on your own PERSONAL experience shows a very limited outlook!! So, Please, please, please start thinking BEYOND YOURSELF, and your personal experiences!! Learn about the world outside of your own views, experiences, and beliefs!! There is actually more to the world than you: as my father used to stay, “What YOU don’t know would make a new world!!”
That isn’t only her experience. It is the experience of many African Americans here. They will look at your skin and gender and decide if they want to pick you up or not. Some have also harassed black women and have actually acted in what can be called a violent and harsh manner. I know of many and I myself had to have one taken before their taxi and limousine board. For taking my cousin and daughters on a very scary ride after he tried to over charge them. And thanks to cellphones I was able to get hold of the company owner and had him on the phone the whole time it was going on. He had to make the driver stop at a location that he met him at and he drove my family home. So it’s not just her experience. And never belittle any part of racial injustice. They happen to like that also. And uber here made it happen less but it still happens.
As a Haitian man who graduated college I’ve been through the exact same situation when I moved to the United States. It’s like I had walked into a battlefield. It’s been 12 years, now I have an understanding of what has been going on. When they see or hear you with your different accent, your different sounding name, your different way of carrying yourself, deep down they don’t think any higher of you. They are actually surprised and angry to find out that somewhere outside of their white bubble, black people have managed to evolve and progress from the white madness. They actually use those qualities you have to their advantage to encourage you to denigrate African Americans until a cop shows up and treat you like another n… Then you will see their colors. It’s a tireless quest to eternally denigrate the black person, to qualify all of us as ignorant, inferior and incapable. Millions of them, overwhelmingly white males, personally don’t like you to succeed, to be happy, to have your own, to have pride. I’ve lived it. It’s like witnessing a mental illness taking over their ignorant minds.
I love how we as Africans no matter where dispersed in this world, are trying to measure up a European standard of acceptability. As an African American I don’t understand this sense of trying to prove ourselves to anyone and while I recognize Africans in the diaspora and in Africa have had divergent experiences in the past few centuries, I believe we need to identify with Africa first and foremost as that is the base for our culture today.
100%, Brother!!! 🙂
Drop the mic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you need to speak for yourself and not stereotype West Indians in order to discuss stereotyping. Most don’t share your views. Your superiority complex is yours alone boo. Just speak for yourself.
You need to read the literature on Caribbean immigration to see that she is not just blowing hot air. I applaud you for being egalitarian, by not all my Caribbean people are like you.
Try Dat, Sista!! Sdal, PLEASE, don’t get so defensive!! Look outside of yourself sometimes, too — you might find A WHOLE OTHER WORLD out there! All the best!….And, thanks Marie
Exactly. For me the biggest thing is food. As a Jamaican their is a lot of food that I like that African-Americans don’t and vice versa. There is a lot of just expecting I like some foods they do. It’s very annoying.
Music too, but not to the same degree.
I like Jamaican food and music…it all depends on the person! : )
I just want black people of immigrant backgrounds to have their own census category like every other race/nationality does. Look at Latinos they can list Mexican/Cuban/Puerto Rican, etc Asians can list Japanese/Chinese/Indian etc, whites can list English/German/Irish/Italian etc. 12% of the US black population is now of foreign decent yet we only get 1 category!
You need to check your facts. That is not how the US census works for race. Latino is not a race and is not among the race choices on the US census. In fact the US government’s position is that Latino or Hispanic can be of any race.
This is what US Government defines as black: Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.
These are not MY words but straight from the US Gov. Website which is why for the life of me I can’t understand how subsaharan descent people come here and are surprised they are considered black.
http://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html
You’re missing my point. I attached a link to the US Census form from 2010. Notice that whites, Latinos, and Asians are ALL given a chance to list their national origin. Blacks are not. THAT is my point. 12% of blacks in the US are from an immigrant background (1 out of 8) yet the census doesn’t account for it. Look at the form. I quite aware of how Latinos are listed on the form. Part of my family is Cuban.
What is confusing you is that the census ask for both race AND ethnicity, that’s why it ask for black, white, Latino and Asian. But other groups are given both options, were the only one given only one.
https://www.census.gov/schools/pdf/2010form_info.pdf
Ok. So am I right to say you want to be asked your race then go the extra step of asking country of national origin? Again Hispanic is NOT a race according to the US Gov. The form allows you to mark both race and hispanic. So a lot of the people who mark black can also be marking Cuban, Dominican, etc. Your family would not be left out. If I understand your complaint then if anything the blacks may feel left out would be the non latino ones. I looked at your link. I saw no boxes for nation origins listed for whites who are not latinos. If I’m a white lady from Germany I don’t see a box for me either. I can only guess they don’t ask because the percentages are so small for overall population. I see your point but it doesn’t bother me. Perhaps because the US census has long asked where people were born. The 1870 census says my 4x great grandparents were born in Africa. Unfortunately doesn’t say what part.
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2014/cb14-184.html
Enough with these racial classifications pink toes use these only to benefit themselves and continue to economically disenfranchise other groups 2020 census I’m checking off Native American because I was born here and no I’m not denying my African lineage many of my ancestors were most likely here before any Europeans ask Columbus
True!
Just because you don’t like a difference, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist….
There is a huge difference between Native American and American Native. Unless your foreparents were original inhabitants of these lands, you’re not Native American. If you’re 1/128th or 1/64th Native American, doesn’t make you Native American. It makes you Black American Native. Huge difference!
That should let you know how they view us. They don’t have a category for Afro-Latinos.
That’s called CULTURAL GROUP, dropper!! But, please, tell me WHY? Instead of looking for more ways to socially divide-and-conquer yourself out…why??? Look how the so=called “whites,” of different European cultural groups come together with the British (who have dogged us ALL — including the other “white groups”) to oppress us!! And those Latino grouping you mentioned are NATIONALITIES/citizenship differences — they are ALL ethnically either Natives (American), Europeans, and/or African-descendents, of variety cultural differences!!!
Or, am I missing your point, and you are instead calling for us to get MORE involved with our African ETHNIC ancestry, so that we will begin to better embrace our Yoruba, Akan, Mande, Wolof, Kongo, etc. CULTURAL heritage…and base ourselves more on them today??? Thanks Dropper!
D. Wole look at the census form. Whites are asked their ancestry (English, German, Irish, Italian, etc), Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Filipino), as are Latinos (Mexican, Puerto Rican, etc). Blacks are the only group that don’t get that treatment. So yes, I think listing nationalities are important.
African Americans have a unique culture formed by merging several West and Central African cultures, in the (mostly) American South. Same is true of the black Caribbean. The foods, music, and culture are different. We have all united as black people, but I also think it’s good to acknowledge it.
Nothing to do with oppression, it’s about celebration the diversity of black folk, and giving us the same rights as others.
This is the dumbest, most ignorant shyt I’ve seen written since the internet began. You could’ve kept that ignorance to yourself.
What ever….
As an African American H.R. Coordinator and Jr. accountant I have been asked often if i’m Caribbean. One prospective candidate for employment so far to say “I’m suprised you are American. Most American people don’t have high ranking positions. They don’t work very hard either”. This sickens me to see the onward trend of bashing. These stereotypes discrediting my history, my ancestors, my culture who’ve faught damn hard for every minority to reap benefits of our suffrage leaves me speechless.
NikkiNYC, don’t get offended if you are mistaken for another group of African people. You are African, too. When people tell you they thought you were of another group, just laugh and tell them your excellent because it’s the African in you!
If this was a candidate for employment, did you just sit there and take the insult or did you do something about it?
Looking at the comments, I really feel like people missed out on the real topic here and are jut falling into petty unnecessary arguments.
Maybe the article is a bit confused and clumsy at times, it is often the case when someone relates her story with very personal anecdots, feelings etc.
I am both from Martinique and Guadeloupe (call it West Indian, French Caribbean as you like as I don’t care) and I do know about this hierarchy between the African diaspora. Martinique and Guadeloupe still being French territories benefit from the better living conditions in the Caribbean (public transport, State, Internet) in comparison with English speaking islands or Haiti or DR who are independent states and face more economical challenges. Therefore some Martinican or Guadeloupean feel they are superior to some of their neighbours. The feeling is the same with Africans. They feel they are more educated and beautiful (especially because our population is more mixed with Whites, natives indians or Indians from India).
All of that is obviously wrong but it does exist. In Martinique, there is the perception that African sold their very own brothers (actual Caribbean) and that they are as responsible as Whites for Slavery. There is therefore resentment. Why would someone from the diaspora want to identify with Africa ? When you watch the news Africa is poverty, war, ethnic and religious conflicts, HIV, Malaria, Ebola, children with swollen belly suffering from starvation. It is obviously far from the truth but it is what you can see on TV…so they reject it. This only mean that there is a need for education, understanding, dialogues, bridges to be built between African and its diaspora. Thank you Lisa for sharing this with us.
Good luck trying to convince most of these bougie Black people that they are inferior you’d have better luck at a homeless shelter in Manhatten. Most Black people will never look at themselves as being inferior and rightfully so. Everybodies in this screwed up world together and guess what everything in the world is pegged to the PETRO dollar which is rapidly declining!
Hold on to your weaves, fake eyelashes, make-up and hair products ya’ll better stock up now because its going to be some rough looking people out here when this dollar collapses.
Show me someone who does not need fresh water to survive then I’ll say that person is superior…..lets get back to the basics because all this excessive thought displayed in this article is rhetoric.
We all need nature so that means we are all equally limited without her love
stop with the propaganda
I think you missed the most important fact (amongst many missed) you forgot to mention that were it not for us uneducated, ugly, misbehaving African Americans YOU would not be welcomed here. Not sure if you’ve heard of this little thing called the civil rights movement that paved the way for YOUR acceptance here in America. Not sure why your parents didn’t fill your heads with that concept – speaking of uneducated. Yes it inflames me that West Indians come here from extremely poor THIRD WORLD countries to turn their noses up at African Americans and put all of us in a single bucket. Though you all don’t fit the same mold in your country. I’m sure you are keenly aware, though live in some state of collective denial, that not all of you have straight hair, speak “well” or are educated…Probably more than you care to admit when you are here in the US and either don’t know the conditions of you home countries or would like to bury these ideas on the backs of African Americans. So the real truth is that you judge us because you haven’t accept all that you are and ultimate represent.
And…if you guys actually grew up in more affluent neighborhoods where there are educated blacks that would remind you that you actually aren’t even middle class to them, then maybe you as a collective group, would be less ignorant to these matters.
And finally…though your article attempts to make amends to these points, it grossly misses the mark.
Southern Black Belle, just so you know, my Caribbean compatriots as well as my African friends have a total adoration for Dr. King and other Black American greats. We celebrate their landmark achievements in and out of the US. During the Civil Rights era, the President of my country even went so far as naming the main avenue from the airport to downtown “Dr. Martin Luther King Avenue”, so visitors knew where we stood. We black foreigners also admire your sports, artistic, and philosophy greats (Dr. Maya Angelou comes to mind.) My personal gripe with Black Americans is their obsession with blaming white people for everything. Your people must find a way to move on, for you guys have too many good things going for you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that Black America did. Love & Peace.
Stop speaking on things you don’t understand.
“My personal gripe with Black Americans is their obsession with blaming
white people for everything. Your people must find a way to move on…”
Please have two seats. Stop while you’re ahead. You have NOTHING to offer about the policies and legacy of this country. ONLY the Amerindians and the indigenous Black population are in a place to speak on the legacy and policies of the African Holocaust in the United States. You have no place and it’s not your damn business.
I don’t tell a jew to just “move on” when speaking on the Jewish Holocaust. Again, KNOW YOUR PLACE.
Southern Belle, try not to worry yourself so much with what you think others think of you. I don’t believe most Caribbean and African people think African Americans are ugly and uneducated. How? You’ve lived in the wealthiest country in the world, have internationally known HBCUs that Caribbean and African foreign students have attended for decades, and some of the most beautiful and talented black people in the world are African Americans! Love, there will always be haters, backwaters, coons, sellouts, and ignorant unconscious folk. Just focus on the positive, conscious and loving black people who knows they’re African and ignore the rest. Blessings, sis.
I’m glad someone brought this thought out. It was definitely not clearly acknowledged in the article. Blacks from the Caribbean and African countries should acknowledge what Blacks in the US did for them by setting the foundation for their acceptance here instead of looking down their noses at them.
Oh so a white person said “go back go Africa” and that somehow defines who you are? Why do we continue to see ourselves through the eyes (prejudices, hatreds, stereotyping etc) of others. mainly “da white peoples”? Persons of African descent are as diverse as any other group of people and there is absolutely no problem with claiming our diversity. Try confusing a french person with a German or an Aussie with a New Zealander…after you get cussed out come tell me there is no diversity in a race.
As far as seeing ourselves as “better than”…it is my experience that only persons that actually “think” your better than them hurl that accusation.
I too come from a Haitian background and never once did I try to hide it and I am very proud of my heritage. I don’t lessen myself so other s(regardless of their color) don’t feel bad about themselves…They probably already do in the first place. I am not here to placate the pathology of self hatred many AAs have. I have pride in myself and love what I am, its THEIR problem if they can’t feel the same way about themselves. I have no obligation to do otherwise.
West India is an European concept. When they discovered the Carribean islands they believed they were in India and when they find out that they were mistaken, the named the islands West indies to distinguish from the real India. Haiti being the first island colonized is actually the prototype West India.
Correct, you are.
You need to know YOUR history. Google West Indian boo.
There is a Dutch, French, and British West Indies….. They ARE just as west indian as the English speaking (British West Indies)… If you were an “Actual West Indian” you would have known that. Next time you want to spit your “erroneous” facts…. use Google.
I don’t think that the whole “West Indian” discussion is really just semantics and not the core of the problem. I believe she just meant “Caribbean”. There is no need to raise another argument here and start saying people they don’t know their origin etc.
Being comfortable around many races has been and still is our downfall. To say that slavery wasn’t harsh in the Caribbean is a complete insult to the Ancestors. Murder is murder and abuse of the highest level is still abuse. Slavery was the most despicable crime committed on our people, it didn’t matter where in the Americas you were. Technically slavery had not ended until some 30 years after the abolition. The abolition was complete propaganda because it was all about Britain being in a position to industrialise their countries. Once the trade was no longer viable we were useless to them. But don’t think for 1 minute that the British were happy to see the end of this trade. The Government would have to succumb to hefty compensation packages for so called loss of income. Meanwhile we were left high and dry with little to nothing and still under the watchful eye of the masters. There was a BBC documentary shown last year on the real reason behind the abolition of slavery, it sheds light on the truth. Maybe it’s a film which needs to be shown in the Caribbean. In terms of the differences in culture there are many commonalities but it really depends on how you have been brought up and how your education on self has played a part on your being. Our foods, dance, spirituality are rooted in our History which is the History of our Ancestors although they have evolved. People in the Caribbean are no more mixed than AA. Why was that your most important contribution?
Lisa Jean Francois, this is a minefield. I am Caribbean. Black Enterprise posted these data: http://www.blackenterprise.com/money/black-immigrants-in-u-s-earning-30-more-than-u-s-born-blacks/. Oprah Winfrey herself opened a school for girls in South Africa because, she says, Black Americans are more interested in sneakers than in education. I have close Black American relatives, but I don’t feel that as a whole their culture is reaching out to white people who are reaching out to them. There is way too much unnecessary “us against them (whites)” going on in Black American culture, which may explain why whites are more accepting of black foreigners.
You seem to have gotten caught up in the web that the writer is warning about. First, I tried Googling this quote you say comes from Oprah Winfrey because I find it completely unbelievable that an American black public figure of the multitude of Oprah Winfrey would make such an insulting statement toward her own culture. Not only would such a statement stereotype us as a whole but it would risk alienating a large portion of her audience. I found no such statement from Oprah Winfrey so you need to check your source. As far as your blaming my culture for failing to reach out to white people, white people made the rules of engagement here. They have constructed the concept of race, the demonization of blacks and the systemic and structural racism that is the foundation of race relations in this country yet you say we are at fault for not “reaching out”? Despite what you think, this is not our fault. Lastly, I saw the black enterprise article you have attached. I’m not sure what your intention is when citing this article but I can say that I am a college educated American black that enjoyed a very good salary when I worked (I am now retired). I am not better than other black people that have not fared as well as I have. We have the same culture and share many of the same struggles. And don’t forget that other black cultures are faring well because of the work that American blacks have done in the struggle for civil rights. Yes, our cultures are different but you are not better and remember, we’re all of African descent. My ancestors were dropped off to be slaves in America and yours were dropped off to be slaves in the Carribean. So don’t go turning your nose up at us American blacks.
Believe me my culture has its weaknesses and I will be the first to acknowledge that. I invite you to do the same. Here is Oprah’s well known quote: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20005585,00.html. Also, to clarify, Dr. King couldn’t be successful if whites didn’t embrace his movement. Neither could Obama be President if it weren’t for the wide support of whites. Those whites are the ones I say are “reaching out” to Black America. Love & Peace.
I’m sorry but white ppl killed mlk. And just because white ppl support the movement doesn’t mean black ppl are the cause of the problem . Have u heard of the tipping point? It suggests that 80% of the work is done by 20% of the ppl. Assuming that’s true, only 20%of racist white ppl are needed to be a driving force against the cause. This majority of white ppl that u are referring are not the problem, and are not the main subject of this topic.
There is no culture in the world that is perfect, I never said that the American black culture did not have weaknesses but as stated previously, American blacks are working within the constructs of the society that was created by white people. Of course there have been white people that have been friends to the black community and they have been welcomed. But we have been here a long time so we know you have to proceed with caution. But this article is about how the author, as a black of Haitian origin, learned that she was not better than American blacks. You then proceeded to make statements in which you went about finding fault with the American black community and you made it clear that you are less than impressed with American blacks. In your previous post, you said that Oprah Winfrey said “black Americans are more interested in sneakers than in education”. In the link you provided, she did not say that. What she actually said was, in America “if you ask the kids what they want or need, they will say an Ipod or some sneakers”. She was talking about what kids say. And she did not even stipulate black kids, she said kids in America. So she did not insult us. You did. That was your re-interpretation of her statement with your bias attached. You can feel how you want to about American blacks but just remember this, white people that are friends to the black community are friends to all of us regardless of culture. Those that are not friends to American blacks are not welcoming you either. This is America. It is your delusion that you are more welcome because of your culture than we are. It’s about color here. They don’t care where you come from, you are still black. And as Lisa Jean Francois found out, they call you ni**er just as easily as the rest of us.
Following the race but not culture logic, a “ghetto” person would be as accepted as a doctor, an attorney, etc., provided they are both Black? I find it hard to believe.
That’s not my logic. It’s actually the reverse. I’m saying that many whites in the country make no distinction of any kind between black people; class or as you think, culture, does not matter to them. They think badly and speak badly of black people no matter who they are and what their station is in life. If you find it hard to believe, I have two words for you: President. Obama. Never has a president in the history of this country been treated so disrespectfully as our first Black president. And they call him a ni**er too. So you keep thinking you’re different if you want to.
You are a mental Muhammad Ali….I love it!!!
Well said! As a college educated professional myself, lest this WebGarv forget? “As Black people, regardless of the geographical region one came from, we are ALL equally hated under the same microscope.”
Well said! As a college educated professional myself, lest this WebGarv forget? “As Black people, regardless of the geographical region one came from, we are ALL equally hated under the same microscope.”
Interesting point about regional differences among black Americans. I have noticed people on here from other countries who get upset if we lump their cultures together and rightfully so. But there seems to be no problem lumping black American culture as being all the same. Realize this is a big place and we have states that are larger than some of your countries so why would we all have same culture? For example where I live we are in the middle of Carnival season. Do you think black in Kentucky or New Jersey do this? Do you think they eat jambalaya, gumbo, poboys. red beans and rice? Food not considered soul food but is out of the black american experience in Louisana area. Most people I know up north eat Cream of Wheat instead of grits. I have never had chittlerlings either stinks but I have had pickled pig feet and hoghead cheese. Ever heard of a Jazz funeral or Second Liners? If you live in Seattle maybe people don’t wear bright tribal Indian costumes and dance in the street. . Not to mention rural vs inner city. Also I have relatives who live on family farms and they hunt deer and go to rodeos. You might meet a black guy from inner city who has never been on a horse. I know that was long but I feel we get lumped in also.
You sound ridiculous and self hating. I am black American and I love being of African heritage. I went to the Bahamas on a family vacation as a teenager and it is beautiful. And the peope were wonderful.
I have heard about this way more than I have experienced it. But I have close family from the Caribbean, South America and from Africa. We see cultural diffences but see each other as black people. I honestly can’t remember ever hearing my family say anything negative about West Indies people. I have also dated guys from South Africa and Dominican Republic and we saw ourselves as culturally but not racially different. . I seen more negativity from blacks in other countries toward black Americans and vice versa on this site than I have ever experienced in “real” life. I only recently heard a black American bash Africans. He was from New York and said Africans were dishonest businessmen. I politely called him out and told him I had relatives from Africa. People are individuals and I did not appreciate him stereotyping them. Does he like being stereotyped? I have done the same with black Americans I have heard saying all Asian women are prostitutes. Some of my bffs are Filipino and Vietnamese. And I have heard ignorant comments about Mexicans and I speak up. How often do we hear this bashing and let it slide. Doing that gives the impression we agree. IDK Maybe the reason I don’t hear as much is people know how I will react because I have a lof of friends who are immigrants. Always have. If your family is teaching you that you are better than other people because of where they are from or their skin color then more than likely they have self esteem issues of their own they are trying to compensate for. That is why in the US it is poor whites who tend to be the most racist.
Haitians aren’t West Indians. Know your history.
Im not sure how I feel about the tone of this article. It suggests that carribean and african cultures are more synonymous than african American cultures vs african/Caribbean cultures. Why are african Americans outcasted? The whole discussion has many flaws. For one, it is unfair to judge all african Americans as the same. Last time I checked, there are 50 states in America and we are all different from the accents we have, food we eat (I.e. Pulled pork in North Carolina vs Cajun food in Louisiana). Also, it is unfair to judge *all* carribean blacks the same, and the whole continent of Africans as the same. At the end of the day, we are all african. We are of the same blood. Want to know the difference between African Americans and Black carribean? We were sent to different ports, raised under different European countries and thus adopted different beliefs, foods and customs influenced and one way or another by our superiors. Don’t be fooled thinking white people know the difference between an African, Carribean, and black American.. They’ll tell all of us to go back to Africa. Seems like white people know more about our home than we do. They know we belong to Africa, but do we know?
Peace.
Last I checked, while Haiti is geographically located in the West Indies, culturally Haitians are NOT West Indian. West Indian in a cultural context refers to the English-speaking Caribbean that was governed by the British West India Company. Thus, when one says West Indian they mean someone who is of English-speaking Caribbean descent, such as those from Jamaica, Trinidad, St Lucia, Grenada, Barbados, Guyana, etc. Haitians are part of the French Caribbean, along with Guadeloupe, Martinique, St. Martin, etc. and therefore not West Indian. So, Ms. Lisa Jean Francois was erroneously feeling superior of African Americans and united with West Indians, then and now.
I think part of the issue is that Africans who move to the US are put under a lot of pressure to assimilate to African American culture, and this comes in the form of people just mistaking us for African Americans, or making comments like “you’re all black anyway, so what difference does it make?”.
Comments like that are very erasing, and people in America don’t understand that most Africans’ default identity is NOT black.
Growing up in Nigeria, I didn’t wake up in the morning and think to myself, “I am a black person”. I woke up thinking “I am an Igbo person”. And I’m sure to lots of other Africans that’s how they feel about themselves too. They don’t feel “I’m a black person”, they feel “I’m Igbo, I’m Kikuyu, I’m Ga, I’m Bassa, etc” and so on.
So when they come to a country where people have no respect for the very identity that defines the way we see ourselves, and simultaneously want us to respect the identity that they see themselves as (Black), it’s almost like socially pushing us to the wall, and when you feel pushed, you push back. That push back from us comes in the form of many Africans saying things like “I don’t want to be confused for an African American” or trying to distance themselves from African Americans.
The average sub saharan African person only sees themselves as Black in relation to white people or other non Africans. But on a daily basis, that’s not the main part of our identity, our cultures take the forefront when it comes to self identification. I can see how to African Americans, this can seem like ‘oh you don’t want to identify with us’.
That being said, I think the desire to retain the primary identity that we’re used to as different African people has morphed into an overall negative attitude towards African Americans, so that’s something that needs to be addressed and hopefully fixed on the end of Africans.
On the end of African Americans, I’d like to see more respect towards Africans because some of the most racist people I (and other Africans) ever encountered when I first came to America were African Americans. Frankly, so far, no white person has ever treated me as badly as quite a few African Americans.
Also, many African Americans often are guilty of committing the same racial micro aggressions against Africans that they complain are committed against them by Whites.
For instance, my name is Lotanna. This AA man I was speaking to insisted on calling me Latonna.
I corrected him four times on four different days. Mind you this conversation was via text, yet every time I got a new text from him, there it would be – Latonna.
To me as a Nigerian, mispronouncing or misspelling a person’s name on more than one occasion is mad disrespectful. I cut him off, and I’m not interested in hearing anything he had to say because it enrages me that he couldn’t even make the effort to get my name right.
I get what you are saying and understand you want to identify with your culture and ethnic group. You also said you see yourself as black in comparrison to white people. The US is mostly white people. Seems to me anyone clearly of Subsaharan African decent who chooses to immigrate to a predominantly white country would arrive expecting to be considered black. I don’t understand the surprise. Of course the social dynamics are not going to be the same as in a predominantly black or black-mixed race country. That is not to say that race is all of who you are but it’s the first thing people see and would say in giving a description of you. You went to somewhere you are a minority and to seems you expect everything to be the same as when you were part of the majority. Sorry. The best way not to be perceived as black is to live where most everyone is black. Have you ever had any honest open racial discussions with white Americans? Many of them will say WE ALL LOOK ALIKE TO THEM. They say the same about Asians and believe me the Vietnamese people I know don’t like being mistaken for Japanese or Korean etc. I am black American and you cannot look at me and tell where I am from. I have been asked if I’m Jamaican, Honduran, Cuban etc. I don’t take offense to it. We also get mistaken for being from other places.That is probably why people were wondering why you were offended. Now if you tell them and they call you differently that’s different. Another thing a lot there is a lot of very anti-immigrants sentiment right now. Don’t be fooled into thinking it’s only Spanish speaking ones and Muslim ones many would love to kick out. The whole “you’re different from them” is what is said to YOUR FACE. Some of these people are backstabbers. Some have said the same to me. But I have also heard the behind conversations and the feelings of Go back to Africa don’t just mean black Americans. People of color are going to have it rough depending on how the election goes.
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I feel the same way. As a non-US black person, I have experienced more xenophobia from black Americans than any other group of people.
This article is based on someone’s personal experience but it fails to mention the other side of the argument, which is black American distain, ignorance and erasure of non-US black cultures.
I grew up with a African American Father from Georgia and a West Indian mother. I didn’t see the difference between both sides pf my family until I got older.All I saw was BLACK. We’re all AFRICAN DECEDENTS. We need to stop perpetuating stereotypes among ourselves!!
So true…in my family we. range from passing white to blue black…we are ALL beautiful…we need learn and appreciate that ASAP!
Definitely grew up in a Haitian household, in a West Indian-esq neighborhood… and it was definitely an us vs them mentality across the board. But what I ended up telling my parents was that ever generation birth onto American soil is now going to be labeled as African American… better known as American Black, so the people they are criticizing are literally their own children.
That concept was too hard for them to adjust to
The reason why I still don’t accept that is because African American is an ethnic group and is not synonymous with the term Black. People need to understand that. It’s like saying every White person is Irish American. That simply isn’t true.
We’re all Black but Afro-Caribbean people are not ethnically the same as African Americans.
How carribean people are not the same as african americans?
Racially most are the same, however ethnically they aren’t. They don’t share the same culture. A culture is defined by language, traditions, etc. While both groups can trace a large portion of their heritage to Africa, their foods aren’t the same and they don’t have the same cultural traditions.
My mother is from Trinidad and my Father is from North Carolina. Both sides of my family cross over and interact however neither side knows the slightest thing about the culture of the other. It’s the same way that someone from Spain and someone from Germany aren’t the same. They’re both White but their cultures are completely different despite them both being European.
But African American IS synonymous with the term Black, along with the Caribbean and African cultures. Black is the category, Nationality is the sub-category and any traceable lineage. Just like White Americans are under the category White and sub category is wherever their family came from pre-columbus. And a lot of white people know where their family lineage is from.
Just like Christian would be the Category, and then the denomination: Baptist, Catholic, Mormon, Evangelical, Protested… etc is the Sub-Category. Its all still Christianity in the end.
So we are all still Black at the end of the day
I never said we aren’t Black, you’re not arguing with me there. I said we aren’t all African American. African American and Black aren’t the same thing. African American is an ethnicity, Black is a race. That’s like saying Spanish (Spain) and White is the same thing. I’m Black and I am both African American and Afro-Caribbean among other things. My mother is Black but she is not African American, she was born in Trinidad and is culturally different from my father who is African American and whose family is from North Carolina.
Yes, at the end of the day we are all Black but to call my mother an African American is incorrect.
To sum up my longer comment: Someone who is descended from slaves in the U.S. is considered African American. If you aren’t from the U.S. but you are of sub-Saharan African descent or you are descended from slaves brought to the Caribbean or Latin America, you are Black, but that ? African American.
How can African-American be synonymous with the term Black? Do black/African Americans own the patent on the term ‘black’? No.
And this is the issue, when you say that black and African American are synonymous, you erase every non-US black person. This is why most non-US black people do not identify as black when in the US because of this constant erasure and centering of black/African Americans within blackness.
IFirstly I am Jamaican and not all west indian or caribbean people have what I call identity issues. I know who my people are and where they came from. I am proud to be of african descent. Now I seriouslyp
have an issue with you calling us names and demeaning my country and culture. Now i have a question do you not have poor people everywhere? Does not every country have it socioeconomic issues. Do you not have crime in the US with curropted people? We seem to like perpetuating a cycle in the days if slavery field slaves distrusted house slaves. And some mulatoes didnt like the darker blacks. Now when you made such a post saying we are jealous of African American is that nit the same thing as the speaker in the article. You also have rich black who turn up their noses at poor blacks. We are repeating a tactic meant and was used to keep us divided. I personally find the article disturbing but im not surprised.
We all live and learn sooner or later sorry this person took awhile to do so. Lastly if all you know about my country is crime and poverty you are not qualified to comment on any of our issues.
Exactly, I’ve seen the same thing happen in some black Americans attitude towards black Africans. No one is a saint here.
Most African countries have safe drinking water and improving electricity. And many Africans are making a difference in their countries and the countries they go to. And not every black immigrant looks down on black Americans. You’re making the same racist generalizations as those misguided people.
*Sigh* This is such a heavy topic. When I first saw the article, I wished the author didn’t even write it, much less publish it on this blog. But, a few minutes later, I realized that sometimes you have to reveal the skeletons in the closet in order to sweep the closet clean. I might be one of the older posters here (70s baby), and I too am from lovely NYC, where a lot of these isms began. I don’t want to make this too long, but I understand how this has happened in recent history.
West Indians, and some Africans, have been migrating to America since the turn of the 20th century (or earlier). In the early days, many West Indians came for work purposes (also to Central and South America) and most returned to the Caribbean, while a few stayed. In the 40s and 50s, a large number of West Indians migrated to the so-called “motherland” a/k/a England. In the 60s, the new frontier was America (and Canada). Waves of Caribbean immigrants came to America, primarily New York, with lesser amounts going to Florida. As I understand it, there was some recruitment going on for skilled workers after Vietnam War.
As one of the first “Jamaican-Americans” from that time period, I grew up in a solidly Jamaican community; I didn’t really get to know African-Americans or Africans until college, since NYC has historically been very segregated by ethnicity. Anyway, I believe some of these stereotypes arise from not knowing each other. Everyone shares in this.
When I was a child, the African-American children I encountered were very mean and unwelcoming, used to tease Caribbean kids incessantly, and always told us to go back to Africa, et cetera. Of course, this is NOT everyone, but it was so prevalent that word of this went back to the Caribbean through word-of-mouth. British Caribbean people can be very haughty at times (read “British”) and took this disdain to heart. Now, I’m sure there is another side to this story, but this is what I lived, so this is what I can tell. For me, it just meant avoidance and to stick with my own community.
By time I met African-Americans who were friendly and welcoming, I was already a college student. In college, I learned that African-Americans in NYC were not representative of African-Americans in other parts of the country; many southern African-Americans had some of the same values as old-tyme West Indians; and also, that some of the things that caused friction between West Indians, Africans, and/or African-Americans were truly local or regional to the NYC area. I guess familiarity breeds contempt. Bottom line: we have to judge people as individuals.
One thing that I did want to correct, or at least enlighten some of the other posters about: not everyone who migrates to the US is poor. I came from a very middle class family in the Caribbean: my father was an accountant and my mother came from a pretty secure family. However, small island economies are very limited, and Caribbean people LOVE to travel! I think many of us are semi-nomadic! Please don’t assume every Caribbean or African came here because they lived in a hovel. Most African students I went to school with were far wealthier than me and my African-American peers; international students have to pay significantly more tuition than students residing in America.
Sorry this is so long, but I want to ask BlackGirlLongHair if they can follow up with a forum of some kind so that everyone can discuss these issues in more depth, because it is greatly needed. Everyone, let’s be unapologetically African, love all Black peoples, and (in my opinion) let some of us go back to Africa, then this can all stop. lol Blessings, everyone. Ashe.
Drop the mic! Thank you! WOW, I’m blown away!!!! Key words: “Unapologetically African, love all black people.”
I’m also a 70’s baby. I’m curious where in NY you grew up? I grew up in Brooklyn where Americans and Caribbean people lived in overlapping neighborhoods and American blacks participate in Caribbean celebrations such as labor day and eat the food regularly. There were a lot of just pro black events at Brooklyn Academy of Music during memorial Day weekend, June Balloon at the Bk Children’s museum etc, Street fairs with African vendors, Soul food and jerk chicken. In spite of that, I do feel some Caribbean blacks – not all, act as if they are superior to American blacks. I do agree with the author that Haitians were teased relentlessly – even from other Caribbean people from other Islands (I don’t know why) when I was a kid.
Just saw your question. I’m from the NE Bronx, bordering Mount Vernon. You are right about Brooklyn, it is much more mixed. But my area was predominantly Jamaican. NY Times dubbed it “Little Jamaica” in the ’90s. You can look up the article if you want. Of course, I lived it, so I don’t need any validation from white media lol but maybe you didn’t know about my area (had a good friend from Brooklyn who didn’t know until she came to visit ). Blessings, sis.
One of the posters did say British Caribbean people can sometimes be haughty and this is true up to this day. I came to NYC from the Guyana 10 years ago. I traveled my little region and I love my West Indian people but sometimes we get head of ourselves. I dated an AA while doing my first Masters Degree here and i was embarrassed when she said West Indians think we are better than them. We need to be more cognizant of the things we say and the way we think about people who have sacrificed much and continue to lead the change for a society we live in.
I don’t mind your long post at all. In fact, it has saved me from writing a perhaps even longer post, lol. I too am a 70’s baby born in Brooklyn to Jamaican ( products of the British Caribbean) parents, but raised primarily in Jamaica, Queens. My early experience in Brooklyn was fine, I was very young and hadn’t even realized that we were “different” until we moved to Queens, there were still many blacks there who’d migrated from the South. They were not very welcoming at first, and I was ridiculed for the food I ate, how properly I spoke, everything about me was ” too proper”. They said there were too many of us, we were taking all the jobs, and they couldn’t understand when we spoke. Eventually the neighborhood became more Caribbean, and it became Hatian vs. Jamaican. Eventually Caribbeans starting sticking together, saying the very same things the author recounted. No matter what, the lack of knowledge about each other always became a point of contention between Blacks.
We need to learn about the “TransAtlantic loop” of influence. The shared history between Black America, the Caribbean, and Mother Africa has continued to keep us connected through cultural and political influence on each other. Yes, if not for the gains made by American Blacks during the Civil Rights Movement our parents couldn’t come here and make all the wonderful accomplishments they have, and we continue to make. Black Americans need to realize that Martin Luther King was influenced by Marcus Garvey a Jamaican, and the Many Jamaican -Americans who continue to contribute to the country their ancestors built. Haiti gaining it’s independence from the French influenced slaves in America to continue the fight. South Africans fighting Apartheid were strengthened by the American Civil Rights Movement. Jamaicans in Britain were influenced by those South African kids to fight discrimination they faced in England. It is evident in our music, dress, and language. We have always seen the strength, creativity, and intelligence in each other. Let’s learn more about each other’s history and accomplishments so we can continue to inspire one another and build upon a legacy of struggle, strife, and perseverance through it all!
Thank you for sharing this. It is truly a serious issue. As an African-American, I have encountered Carrbbeans and Africans with that ignorant mentality, and it makes me nauseous. I immediately lose respect for individuals like that. We are all black in the eyes of white people and they do not know the difference unless you tell them your nationality. We need to stick together and end this stupidity. I’ve had many experiences with this and unfortunately lost a great and close friend who is Afro-French and have had to put people in their place, and “surprised” people because I’m “smarter than they assumed”. There are negative stereotypes within ALL cultures. Trust me, I know some of the sweetest Africans, Afro-Americans and Carribbeans and I have also met some of the rudest and ghetto ones too from each culture. But that’s no excuse to generalize bad stereotypes. Critique people for who they are as individuals, not their nationality.
Don’t worry- we blk Americans are taught the same things about Africans and West Indians- that they are ignorant, they think they are better than blacks, and that they come to the US with an entitlement complex. Conversely, we’re taught not to date or commingle with people who aren’t born with American citizenship. We are taught that islanders are savages.
Goes both ways. I’m 33, I’ve traveled the world, I have professional certifications and I’m in IT Management.
After four years of living in Florida (I was raised in the north), I still have yet to make friends with Caribbean blacks.
It goes both ways.
Until a situation occurs like the above.
Sorry to hear this, sis. I live in South Florida now (from NYC). Too bad we don’t know each other. I’m sure we’d be friends, or at least happy acquaintances lol. I hope you get to meet more of the kind, accepting, and conscious Caribbean and African people. Ase.
I feel so sad for you. There’s more to the world than your small, sad existence. Take a trip, read a book, and FORGIVE yourself. It’s going to be okay! 🙂
Who Feels It, Knows It!
http://hbcuconnect.com//content/274439/who-feels-it-knows-it
Not all black Londoners know their background. Immigrants from the Caribbean don’t know what part of Africa they are from.
Hmm…I see some of your points but as a Jamaican you should know that slavery in Jamaica was noted for its brutality…..In fact for a long time there was more foreign born Blacks than native born because soo many died young and it was cheaper to import Africans than to take care of the ones already there….and Jamaican slavery was only a few decades shorter than American slavery….A Mixed people?….Ok…….The few…..but I see some of your points.
Yes but those are the foreign born Blacks they let into the country. …The educated middle class ones who would thrive in any country……less in numbers….(especially when the way was made easier by the native born Blacks)….and they and their children can be contrasted with the Blacks in say France who are African and West Indian background but are not doing as well….and that is not to take away from their success?
‘We have nothing’……oooohhhh?????????
Milly….it is human nature and it is disgusting. …isn’t it?
Ignorant….a lot of West Indians look straight up African’….is that supposed to be an insult?….sigh….I’ve had a few run ins with some Africans and tend to keep my distance until I know them better…but I have to say when an African woman is beautiful….there’s no comparison. …perfect skin, features, bodies, even teeth….When African women are beautiful…….THEY ARE DROP DEAD GORGEOUS….so come again.
The issue with this is at you’re all living for the white man’s approval. I’m also Haitian, but I’m tired of people telling me to conform to a standard of “blackness” that is not me. It is not my history. When will all our history’s be told/known?
I did date several African men. 2 of them were divisive so I’ve experienced that but I took it as a huge cultural problem which it is. I haven’t been to any African countries yet, when I go I’ll have a better understanding of it. Just like when I came here to the US, I had a better understanding of black Americans. But do not silence your constructive criticsm. Teach your history, teach your fairy tales and the hopes of your family back home and tell them the global forces at play that keep your country a plaything in the hands of the elite.
This is a huge black history lesson. A global black history lesson. Why stick to only black American history when there are many ignorant people abound who know nothing of anything except to say rude comments about shantytowns!
The histories are all inter connected anyways. I think it’s silly to see us all as separate entities. When Europeans struck in Africa they were in cahoots with each other over who would get what and where. They didn’t care to keep us together according to our kins people, we were strewn everywhere. Many of us had families who remained on the continent and family members were further removed and taken to different parts of the Americas. Although I live in England with Caribbean parents I consider those in the diaspora lost cousins. We don’t know who we are related to.
No offense, but many African women experience female genital mutation definition (FGM). Sad.
That’s because American blacks have their OWN Institutions…and have had them for the past century…most American Blacks attend HBCUs. But what’s interesting is why can’t foreign born blacks achieve this in their native countries where they are the majority and run the government and resources. Would love to see an article on that.
We do and we have achieved these things. Also, ‘American imperialism’ has alot to do with the destruction of many black/brown nations and our governments. Your argument lacks context.
Yes all immigrants benefit off the free labor of black Americans…Maybe one day American blacks can get their reparations for giving immigrants the American Dream.
I am Guyanese and i share some your the sentiments regarding differences. Having lived in the US for almost 10 years I can relate to everything said on this thread thus far. I believe too, until recent, that a significant difference between West Indians and African Americans was slavery ending early in the West Indies. When slavery ended in August of 1838, Guyana freed slaves bought the first plantation in November of that same year and named it Victoria. In February of 1938 the second plantation was bought and named Buxton; my father’s family are from this village. For more than a 170 years they have owned land. Many other villages were bought. I said this to say, we all evolved out of slavery differently but we still have the same challenges as people of African descent. Our ancestors experiences of slavery are also different when comparing slavery in American and the West Indies. According to Dr. Leary twice the number of Africans slaves were imported to Jamaica alone compare to the whole of the US during the period of the slave trade. She said, the Caribbean was a slaughter house. So we weren’t treated better during slavery but we did catch a break after compare to our brothers and sisters in America. Within the last year i started teaching my 12 year son about slavery and how to appreciate the history and culture of African Americans. In the West Indies we own and run our own country, of course with other groups, but we have a massive say. In American no one rely love and respect African Americans and it is a daily struggle of survival for them and we need to be more sensitive to their struggles. We can always go back home, and we do once we get in our 60s. So my advice to all of us is to appreciate their history and struggles because half the times we benefit directly or indirectly from their fight.
So why so many of you in the us?…bought plantations? From? If you own the country..’no one? love or respect Black Americans’..who is no one?..whites?…because they love and respect you all..right?…please….even when they are in your countries..they do not….believe it or not Black Americans love and respect themselves, inspite of what shitty rap hip hop culture says because i know thats what you all look at……
listen ….slavery ended in the US in 1863./5…on paper….Black Americans had to navigate Jim crow, state terrorism, murder, rape, outnumbered, kept out of every industry/union, kept out of every scheme to provide people with upward mobility, but still founded towns (some still in existence), great music, literature, newspapers, colleges, hotels, everything communities wanted or needed….you ain’t telling us nothing….The nerve….As if Africans or Caribbeans can judge us….patronize and pity yourselves.
Lis, I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I honestly ask you to read my comment over again. I have tremendous amount of respect for African Americans. My comment was to show how different groups evolved out of slavery and colonialism. In my closing sentence I praised your struggles and indicated the world, including West Indians, benefit directly and indirectly from your fight. I am sadden by your response.
It’s fake. http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/question/may04.htm
Bitch, we hate you too tf. You’re not shit. You think NY and other places in the US aren’t damn dirty ass slums? Our islands have natural beauty that this ugly country lacks, coon. West Indians are far more diverse than you think idiot, probably even more diverse that American black. No one wants to be you guys. Y’all seriously bring shame to other blacks around the world and y’all do not have any good manners at all you self hating, ignorant bitch.
LMAO! You sound just as silly as her. You basicly said to black Americans “You bitches and coons don’t have good manners like we do.” Seriously?? LOL! I think you are both an embarassment to black people. If you haven’t seen natural beauty in the US then you must not get out much.
Just a small reminder: every African living outside of Africa is living on captured land, i.e. land stolen from its natives. So, America, Canada, the Caribbean, Central and South America–all captured land. Let’s not brag and say “my captured land is more beautiful than your captured land.” How do we sound? Ridiculous, especially since most Africans in the diaspora don’t own the so-called beautiful land in the first place! Come on now, black people, let’s love each other! Ase
Very Informed post because it replicate the same issue here in America to a country predominately black.
Very true indeed. African American lack of family structure plays a big part in this matter.
My friend, you can’t just make such a statement without citing your source like the person you’re responding to did. Statement is bias without proof.
And what comes in to play with foreign-born blacks not being able to achieve this in their native countries when blacks are the majority, run the government and control the resources. If they could achieve this in their native countries they wouldn’t have to migrate to America, England, Canada or France.
Although you have majority blacks in the Caribbean it is the Americans and other Europeans pulling the puppet strings. You will find that the political and even the education systems are based on models introduced to the people by former Colonisers Many of the Islands have tourism as it’s economical force. This industry is heavily invested by Asians(mainly Indians) and Europeans alike. I have yet to learn of any African Caribbean with a chain of big hotels or owning those inclusive holiday complexes which foreign people like to go to. There isn’t that much that we control in the Caribbean not even produce like foods. Many if not all of the distribution companies are owned by Indians and it is them who supply the businesses(mainly Indian again) who then in turn rely on our custom in the West. A person coming from Britain of an African Caribbean background can experience the same snobbery mentioned in the post in the Caribbean by fellow Caribbeans. I know because I was on the receiving end. We have got to let go of that slave syndrome and stop allowing the legacy which the WM left us to take over our minds. We are better than this. It’s high time we started to truly respect ourselves and stop letting others dictate our worth.
Wrong. American racism and white supremacy is as much the reason for problems in the black community as European imperialism is the reason that Caribbean and African countries lag behind the rest of the world in every measure.
“African American lack of family structure *plays a big part* in this matter.”
**–meaning it plays a part, but it’s not the only part, and it’s not the whole part, just plays a big part within the whole.
Hope the additional descriptions helped.
I grew up in a West Indian household and oddly I never heard the us vs them until I was much older and people complained to me ( mostly AA). I didnt get it arent we all African americans or just simply black ?( which I prefer to be called its more inclusive to me) .The majority of my family resides in the islands and growing up i spent ever summer with them. They use to call me “Yankee” I dint know it was an insult until my 20s. Especially when the same cousins often wanted what I had, my clothes ,my home ,my lifestyle. But it is a myth some must have bought into. Culturally there are some differences but there is so much similiar I would argue that my ancestors’ slave ship stop at a different port is all.
The Huffingtonpost writer hit it on the nail…its the divide and conquer method best believe racists don’t divide West Indians to AA and AA from Africans as long as your skin has any melanin I don’t care if its a light cream to the darkest blue black if you from Aruba to Argentina to Egypt you are a ninja to them.
If only we could realize and accept that and all join together we would be so powerful.
I’m very confused, can someone tell me why it’s ‘shameful’ to be Haitian? My cousin is Haitian and she doesn’t like to tell people, either. I think its something one should be proud of.
Right…..Haitians have a proud history.
They were the first black people to free themselves from slavery. White supremacy taught other black people to hate black people who are against white supremacy. Non Haitian people discriminate against Haitians.
It’s the dreaded lies of systematic massagany. Haitians are considered in alliance with the devil because they fought off slavery and oppression of the French. Good Christians say the sold their souls to the devil with their voodoo. When Napoleon left he took their lumber (sacred trees) and blackballed them from outside commerce. The Dominican Republic right on the other side of the island is revered for their mixing with their Spanish captors. We should be praising Haitians for their strength and bravery instead of perpetuating the stereotypes and I’ll will.
Hairltians catch ridicule because American whites started the campaign of negativity against them after the slave revolts that resulted in the French being exiled from the island. Although America profited greatly, by obtaining the Louisiana Purchase, the Haitians are still black, and the French are still white. This seeped into Black American culture because it was feted that if we knew we were the same people, we would revolt, as well. So, the equation of African spiritualisms (voodoo) with devil worship began. The same campaign that led us to believe that we’re different was spread throughout, and all who came here were indoctrinated. We all should think about just who is telling us this. Then understand history, as well as current happenings, and recognize the propaganda for what it is. The singular difference is where the boat landed and dropped us off. We come from the same place, we suffer the same struggle. Regardless of what language we speak, what customs, what music, what religion (which are all derived from African spiritualisms), ultimately, we have one history. There is no difference. And although we can produce all pigments in the spectrum, darker or lighter makes no difference, either. It mostly indicates how recently and/or how often a slave owner or overseer raped our ancestors.
My apologies for being harsh, but sometime truth is that bitter life saving medicine. #MeWe
I can speak for myself as a Haitian but around where I grew up, it wasn’t cool. And the “uncool-ness” came from African Americans shaming us. Also, during that time there was a lot of the Haitian refugee talk going on and we were “boat people.” Not all African Americans are this way of course but I’ve noticed, a lot of African Americans talked crap about any black person from any other country because it was “weird” to them.
If West Indians understood from molasses to rum to slaves, they would know we all came over on the same boat. The only difference was the exit
I’ve been preaching this for YEARS…
You made some very valid points. I’ve always felt like we black people in America we’re one of the first cultures to be “Americanized”. We still have bits and pieces of African culture, albeit unbeknownst to us. We are like magicians in the sense that we have a way of turning what was/is considered undesirable to the new “it” thing. We are brilliant!
It’s really weird, how other blacks come here to the US, only bc African-Americans have made it palatable, and still look down us. Strange indeed
This is a massive point. I lament that perhaps because of the continued “adversity” between Black Americans and whites, Black Americans are distracted and can’t capitalize on their huge power. (I am from the Caribbean.)
Your statement is very backwards, as it assumes that black Americans are the creators of race problems in America, and that if we would just be quiet, black Americans would be successful. No. That is not our heritage and it is not who we are. We have always been a politically active group – the most politically active minority group in America – and being politically active is precisely what has brought us as far as we’ve come; it’s also what allows black immigrants to this country to come here and be accepted into America. We continue to highlight race in this country precisely because we want to capitalize on the privileges that are afforded most other Americans, such as a criminal justice system free of bias, decent education, and equal pay for equal work. If you look at what has gone on in just North Carolina within the past few weeks, it becomes clear that we are still fighting to ensure that we maintain the right to vote. If you call focusing on these issues being “distracted” and see it as a problem with black Americans, rather than a problem with how American society treats black Americans, you’re part of the problem.
‘Americanism’ (which black/African Americans also actively participate in) is shoved down our non-US black throats. I wish black/African Americans understood how much America has exploited predominantly black/brown countries around the world.
We all came from one man and one woman, that’s Adam and Eve. We are in the 21st century and we should know better and do better. I am West Indian from Trinidad with a mixed heritage of African, East Indian and French decent. I will never deny none. Lets celebrate our cultural differences. I we are all one people that God but here on this earth. So long as Satan rules this earth there will be division, but when Christ comes back to rule this earth all of this division will be done away with. I am beautiful. that’s how God designed me. I black and i’m proud. I celebrate my white and my Indian genes too, no one is better than the other.
At the end of the day black is black. No racist person is going to look at me and say, “Since you are Ghanaian you are okay. It’s the other black people I don’t like.” So yes it is silly to be divisive and ALL groups have been guilty of this (Africans, Black Americans, Careibeans, etc).
I agree with your second statement, but I have to disagree with your first point. Non American blacks do NOT share the same cultural identity as black Americans. Similarities? Absolutely. But we are different, and IMO “different” is good. Growing up as a Jamerican, I often didn’t fit into either side of the spectrum. I wasn’t black enough for the black kids, and I’m not white…I ate “foreign food”, I spoke differently than most AAs, I had different perspectives of diversity, among countless other things.
I appreciate differences in all people, and I love Sharing culture, but I don’t want to be called “African American”, because I have no African relatives spanning several generations and I am only first gen American, so ALL of my immediate heritage is Jamaican. Just as there are many people who look “Indian/Asian” etc. but their families have lived in america for several generations. So, they don’t really have any foreign culture embedded within them. They should be called American first… not Indian, not Asian, not Indian-American. They’re just American, UNLESS they choose to identify otherwise.
Why is it that Italians/Irish/British are able to distinguish themselves culturally without being criticized? Nobody tells them that they shouldn’t see themselves as “Italians” because “at the end of the day white is white”. This rhetoric is unheard of.
If anyone thinks I’m missing something here, help me out. As it stands, this cultural double standard is absolutely insane to me.. =/
Yes, I agree there are differences. My experience as a Ghanaian-American ( I refer myself as Ghanaian) is different than that of an African-American, Jamaican, Haitian, etc. My point is to a racist person there is no difference. You will never hear a racist person say, “I don’t like black people but I sure do love Bahamians.” That’s what I meant by at the end of the day we are all black. I hope I made sense.
I don’t think we should have to be forced to identify ourselves based on the way racists and oppressors think about us.
What a racist thinks about me is really none of my business and I shouldn’t have to conform my sense of self to their own thoughts or ideas about me.
Your comment shows you know nothing about European colonies and slavery in other parts of the world.
West Indians, Hispanics and even Africans have last names which are the name of some white master. So a black person having a French, Dutch, Portuguese, Irish or British sounding name whose family isn’t AA and they have had that last name for known history has either slavery or some form of exploitation in their family history.*
The difference with a Black person with family from elsewhere is they can claim another country and culture when they settle in America, yet some of them are still descendants of slaves. Their ancestors just happened to be on a slave boat that stopped in another place that.
*”Taking” a local wife is exploitation especially if you knew how the white men disappeared.
Not entirely sure what you are trying to get at here, but you kind of proved my point. Being black means something different in america than it does in places with predominantly black populations. Like Iman said in an interview “Where I’m from everyone is black. It is redundant to state that. I identify as Somali”. So yeah, of course a black american is going to cling on to being black because they don’t have a country to claim. I never said pick a random country in Africa and start identifying with their culture. Black americans have their own rich, unique, and complex culture with its own history. I’m saying don’t be mad when someone who does have a country claim wants to identify with that country and culture before they chose to idenfity as just black.
Black Americans do have a country to claim, which is America; just like Blacks who come from other countries in the Caribbean, countries in Africa, Latin America, etc. can claim that country. Blacks from Somali, Ethiopia, Panama, Colombia, Trinidad, etc. can claim their country, but when you go to a nonblack country, you are going to be called Black. I’ve lived abroad to see this.
Ignorant little girl. It’s good to be straight up African, means you know your heritage ?. You seem like an angry “white” black girl.
There are many “so called straight up Africans” that don’t know their own heritage. There is good/bad/ignorance on all sides, including your reply/comment. Just as there is much wisdom & knowledge from both sides because America’s greatest Black scholars teaching about Blacks & our history throughout the diaspora are Black Americans & some Blacks from the Caribbean. Black Americans built this country through slavery, inventions (that were stolen), many of our successful communities were destroyed by jealous whites, etc. Read the website BlackThen.
I was hoping, at the end of every word, someone would call this thing out.
This comment is so pathetic it’s not even worth the read. Why spread the same ignorance that was given to you? That’s so backwards. If anything, you sound jealous.
Can we stop generalizing? Stereotyping can be fun coming from comedians, but when we start to get angry and put down a whole group of people based on (let’s face it), limited experience with them, just proves how uninformed you are. Case and point, Donald Trump’s ban on Muslims.
The Us vs Them mentality needs to end.
Treat people like individuals and not a group, stop the hate.
So true. Every country, race, culture has its a$$holes. Don’t act like there are no idiots in your village. Unless you want them to represent how the world sees you shouldn’t do that to other people.
I agree. I am in Southeast Florida and there is still a divisiveness among the colored cultures here.
I live in south eastern Florida and I don’t even speak to Caribbean women. They are rude and the men only want to run scams.
Sis, ease up with these stereotypes. You don’t know enough people to make these generalizations. Real talk: most Caribbean people are very insular, i.e. tend to stay to themselves. So, it would be shocking that you knew enough Caribbean people to have “scams” run on you all the time. Maybe you need to go to different places, meet new people. You might find your niche. Blessings.
They are probably not looking to be friends with you either. A sad situation.
I am a African American woman married to an African man therefore a lot of Africans think they are safe telling me how “different” I am from other African Americans. I find it to be very insulting. Hear me and hear me clear at the end of the day we are all black in their eyes. My husband to had the false sense superiority and he learned the hard way and opened his eyes.
I’ve been in many situations where an older West Indian woman has taken a liking to me and asked me where I was from, meaning what Carribean country am I from. I hate when they say I’m “well-behaved” when they find out I’m not West Indian. You can keep your backhanded compliment. I am not flattered.
I also had a Haitian girl who had to attend court-ordered anger management that they were better behaved.
You are very ignorant. Looking African is a negative thing? You must also hate being black. I’m sure the white people still look down on you. It’s ok to call a culture coconuts but you would be offended to be called the N word. Go get an education. Not just book smarts…life smarts.
I see my comment has been m0derated
Seems you didn’t change your way of thinking until you got that negro wake up call.
That is one helluva call.
this article is everything and exactly what i have been saying to all blacks I encounter forever!!! lol like don’t you see this is a divisive strategy or are you so happy to be fake accepted that you would scorn your own? Kudos to this article….
As an American black woman I never like West Indians and I still dont. I was born and raised in New York. And unfortunately I had to be surrounded by a bunch of coconuts. They come from slums in the Caribbean and they have enough to look down on black Americans! I think they’re just jealous because of our complexion and or mixture a lot of West Indians look straight up African in most parts of the Caribbean. I don’t understand how they think they’re better than us win the slums if they come from are riddled with violence take Jamaica for example, believe I can go on and on the living in a delusional world of my favorite as they say that we have no manners. They are the most loud, crude, horse people I’ve ever met there the scum of the earth they’re just jealous they can’t be us
LMAO. You are incredibly ignorant if you think people can “look African”. There is no “African look”. Every single type of black person from light skinned, dark skinned, thin featured to thick featured is represented on the continent. Only an idiot would think that the “African look” is dark skinned, big , bulbous nose, thick, overblown lips, and super 4c hair.
Please nobody is jealous of you. Why would anybody be jealous of someone who clearly does not know basic information about other parts of the world?
LMAO, dear God. She really said “they are jealous of our complexion and mixture”.
America, please increase the Department of Education’s budget already.
Its not just coming from black West Indians but black Americans also. They do the same exact thing. There have been numerous times when I have overheard black Americans saying negative stereotypical things about West Indians. They assumed I was American.And many told me I didnt look like I could be from the country. Really? What are West Indians supposed to look like?
Great piece! My father is Jamaican and my mother is African-American. Their relationship didn’t last past my toddler years, so I grew up with both dynamics. I heard the superiority talk from my Jamaican family; although being that we didn’t live in an area with a large West Indian population, when it came down to it, they were solidly a part of the local African-American community. Being born and raised in the US though, I found no distinction between myself and African-Americans; except that I listened to more reggae, could understand (but didn’t talk) patois, and we ate different food for holidays. As more siblings and cousins were born, my Jamaican born family came to realize that their children were essentially African-Americans. So as the years have gone by, it’s been less of them vs. us. However I used to live in Southeastern Florida…and there, you definitely still have that vibe of West Indian superiority….even among the US-born 2nd generation. And to me…that felt very odd.
I am a Black American and I wittnessed blatant racism by two West Indian women. I was at St. Luke’s Roosevelt Hospital in NYC, with my mother, waiting to have my cast removed.
There were many people waiting to be seen. (White, Black, Hispanic, etc..) A middle aged black man was upset, because he was waiting for a long time, while others who supposedly came after him, went in before him. So he voiced his aggressions towards the women. (Both nurses at the orthopedic Dept.) Well when he walked away after more than a few choice words, the racial slurs started. I was so confused. I saw, as a Preteen, that we were all the same. I truly didn’t understand why they would say such things about someone who could have easily been either of their family member. To this day I still don’t understand….we are from the same continent, Africa, stolen from our land, and put against one another.
We were just dropped off at different ports. Get it together my people. We were brainwashed, and that slave mentality lives on today. We must all wake up!
Sorry for the rant…
Have you read the “Willy Lynch Letter” lately? The basic principles in it may be able to be applied here. Are we not being divided from one another while interests of globalization and neocolonialism are distracting us from any investment in what happens to our mother countries and the continent of Africa? Once we start playing the “better than thou” and “exceptionalism” games, we pass this down to future generations. Then we run the risk of losing everything we have. Isn’t it interesting that the same corporate interests that divide Black people are unsuccessful in dividing people of Jewish descent in the same manner — why are they not able to get Jews with ancestors from Germany, those with ancestors from Poland, and those with ancestors from Palestine, fighting each other while they seize Israel? There must be a reason that that strategy does not have a chance in Hades of working. The same can be said of other groups. Why do Black people find themselves so vulnerable to being turned against each other and ignoring what is happening in Africa and places like Haiti? If I am wrong, please correct me, but by all means, please review the “Willy Lynch Letter” and see whether it has any applications here.. http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/Willie_Lynch_letter_The_Making_of_a_Slave.shtml
This is a good message. I identify as Black, first, because it connects me with my melaninated brothers and sisters in the Americans, Central & South America, the Caribbean, and the motherland continent, Africa. We were all enslaved or ruled through colonialism. Those of us outside Africa, one of our ancestors was kidnapped and put on a slave ship and just dropped off at different ports. My heritage is Creole (New Orleans, free people of color) with known beginnings in Haiti & The Dominican Republic and Lyon, France. I am a fortunate “American black” in that our family was able to trace our heritage back beyond enslavement. However, that does not make me or any one else better or different than American black people. My point is, celebrate that you know your heritage, so do we, many of the American black southern foods are directly tied to the same foods in West Africa. The Gullah People and the Louisiana Creole People hold onto their heritage because the larger white society wants it erased (check out the French quarter, check out what is happening in New Orleans). We are all Africans, regardless, and can joyously celebrate our slight differences in dance, food, music, and language without succumbing to the divisive tactics of a larger white society that will shoot first, ask questions later(Ferguson, Baltimore, Minnesota, Oakland, Cleveland, etc). Black Lives Matter for all of us in all our forms. We are one people. Period. Love.
A more in depth knowledge of our origins is what is needed. I live in England parents are from the Caribbean. I also have a ton of family living in America as well as Canada. I’m always drawn to my people no matter which corner of the earth they happen to reside. I understand that there are cultural differences among us but I also know there are many things we have in common. Let’s not forget that this disdain for one another started with the WM. It was his mission to disconnect us from each other and needless to say he has done a damn good job.
Great post. *applause* you wonderfully articulated my exact sentiments.
Awesome statement of truth….Thank you!
you do know creoles from Haiti and Dominican Republic who came to America were slave owners escaping the revolution…yes Creoles in the Caribbean owned blacks as slaves…
What is Creole(s)? Is it a person, a language or a culture? If I may, let me explain. The whole of the Caribbean has a Creole culture and can be regarded as creoles. The culture is simply a mixture of different cultures using a common European language in a broken form, which includes words and terms from other African, Indigenous and Asian languages. So we have Haitian Creole language, which to a large extent is a broken form of French with a heavy influence of African languages. St. Lucians also speak a broken form of french mixed with other languages, which some Guyanese referred to as Palawala because they couldn’t understand the old Creoles spoken by the older generation of St. Lucians who came to Guyana In the early 1900s. Jamaicans call their common language Patwah (Patios), which is broken English with African language influence. Suriname speak a broken Dutch call Takitaki with African influence. The common use of broken form of European languages can be found in all Caribbean countries. In Trinidad, Black or African mixed people are called Creole and it has nothing to do with the Language but more about the local culture. You can hear them say, Look a Creole boy or girl there. In Guyana, our broken English is known as Creoles. So the word Creole is used differently throughout the region. In many respects the term/word Creole has similar connotations as the term Hispanic. So it is safe to say the Caribbean has a Creole Culture.
…we have a lot more in common than .not. If our features and skin color is one shade darker than theirs, rest assure they ALREADY made a choice to ensure they know we are black no matter what part of Africa a person is from. Skin color should NOT be an issue these days but sadly it STILL is.
The civil war and genocide in Rwanda was on perceived differences between two tribes. Yet if you looked at pictures of them they would look the same simply because there was a lot of intermarriage between them.
People who believe they are better than another group who have the same skin colour as them obviously have never heard of the WM’s trick of divide and conquer. It was used to keep slaves of different main ethnicities and religions from joining together in their colonies to over throw them.
True and I am well aware of what you are saying….i.know it steams from slavery. I am prior military, read books, and have too many overseas friends.not to understand colorism and racism…plus I have experienced this at some level.
Well, as a Nigerian American, my take on it is this. Many Americans, because of the lack of exposure to African and Caribbean cultures, fail to see black people beyond anything but black american. Compared to, say London, where there are many black people from many different countries, l stereotypes applied to a black american will not be the same as those applied to a Jamaican, a ghanian, an Ethiopian, and a Haitian. But in America they are. Sure, someone walking down the street doesn’t know I am of nigerian heritage, but that doesn’t change my upbringing, values, and culture. Of course, my parents would not and could not have ever come to America if not for the amazing work that black americans have done and continue to do in society, however as someone whose family has no history in America, I do not want black american history to automatically become my own, because it is not. Black is a color, not a culture, and I don’t understand the kumbaya attitude people always expect us to have. Chinese people are discriminated against in Japan. I knew a korean person whose family wouldnt let them go to a japanese festival because it was japanese. All Asians? Yes. Different countries and cultures? Definately. I watched a show where a cuban lady was talking about how much she disliked Colombians. Both Hispanic? Yup. Does that mean everyone has to get along because of that? Not really. Heck, just look at European history and all the wars they had with each other. But they’re all white, can’t they just get along? No, because culture.
The Point Is To Be Kumbaya. It Seems You’re Saying Thanks, But No Thanks. Thanks For Paying The Price, But Hold Up Dnt Pass Me The Bill. Smh. Dnt Be Like The Chinese, Hispanics, or Europeans. That Have Self Hate. Be Black ! Be African !
This article just went straight over your head.
it really did lol wow
THIS!!! I was born in Nigeria and lived there for most of my formative years. I am also a naturalized American and have now lived in the U.S. for longer than I ever did in my country. I identify as Nigerian American because no matter how American I have become, much of who I am today was shaped by my experiences as a Nigerian, first and foremost, and I still maintain strong ties to my culture.
Yes, that heritage DOES make me very different from Black Americans. But it doesn’t make me some kind of special, magical African snowflake. At the end of the day, my skin is black just like my Black American brothers and sisters and America treats me with the same contempt and disregard reserved for people with our skin colour. Like the author learned, our disparate cultures won’t exempt us from racism, profiling, discrimination and violence. So let’s stop with all this nonsense which to me is just house Negro/field Negro ish redux.
Yemi well said!
I never said being of direct African descent made me special, I said it doesn’t make me have the same culture and history as a black american whose history in America can be traced back to the 1500-1600s when mine can only be traced to the late 90s. Obviously I know I’m black and that society will place my blackness above my being Nigerian. What I’m saying is that doesn’t mean I should disregard my entire culture and ancestry simply because small minded people have only 1 idea of what it means to be black. I was raised in predominantly white areas and so it wasn’t until until high school that I made a really good black american friend. It was through her that I learned about african american culture and how different our upbringings were based solely on the cultures we were raised in. Do I look down on african american culture and see nigerian culture as superior? No, and I never said that. Are there things that we can never trully relate to about each other’s upbringings because they are rooted in the history of 2 different countries? Yeah. No duh we are both black and will be treated the same at face value in society but at the end of the day I will never identify as just black because I am of Nigerian heritage and I was raised to be proud of that.
I understood your post, but my point was just that, all of the other stuff you brought up–identifying with being Nigerian instead of just black and etc, had ZERO to do with what the article was about.
I once liked a Nigerian girl and she said, bare in mind I am Nigerian. I have no knowledge what that was but I left here alone. LOLOL. You see, I am West Indian and when people talk like that the first thing comes to mind is Obeah. LMAO.
But we already know you don’t have the same history so what is your point here? You want to be considered the same when it comes to black American resources, though, which makes you an exploiter and user, no?
But where in this article did it say that? This article was about feeling superior to black Americans. Which is your problem, not ours…,
but many americans literally lack exposure to black american culture and even interactions with black americans are fucking limited.
I agree. I just wish in Americans as a whole had a better understanding of REAL African American culture (not this rap and hip hop culture that everyone believes is the extent of it) as well as african and carribean and even black hispanic cultures (heck, we can even through in australian aborigines) so that people would not be so small minded as to what it means to be black.
Are you new to the U.S.? Many Americans ‘do not’ lack exposure to Black America, no not in 2015. Black people are everywhere in the U.S. Other races/ethnicities choose to not acknowledge Black people/Black culture because of racist views and history dating back hundreds of years. People were told ignorant bad things about Black people and ignorant stupid people believed it (still do).
I think.it.makes.more.sense to include your history with anybody of the same ethnicity as you. Black history is any history in the world where your race had a hand in. This is not a nationality thing. Its an ethnicity thing. I celebrate black history around the globe as my own. I could.never limit it to a nation
A nation didnt birth me
So you’re comparing London, a place where a person’s parents or grandparents are from an exact country and still possess their African name and culture to America where most of us have the last name what can be assumed to be of a slave master and first and middle names that are English, Greek, French and more and unless the slave masters kept excellent records, we wouldn’t have a chance in he’ll to trace our ancestors to a specific country. Yep! Definitely the same. *sarcasm*
Black American people hold onto the idea of being black so badly because what else do we have? What African country can we claim? How can we be proud of being American when this country was started with us not in mind. We have nothing. I’m not quite sure why African people can’t come to these same conclusions. Do you not actually try to think about it?
I’m glad you said this, because it’s so true. As much as it saddens me, that’s simply how human nature is. I don’t live in America, but I am an East African living in South Africa and you can see the exact same behaviour here. Elders in the EA community will say that South African blacks are wilder, more promiscuous, lazy, uneducated, basically echoing what white people say. People in this country will hire foreigners, most commonly Zimbabweans for jobs, because they are “more reliable”, “less likely to steal” or whatever else reason people will someone would come up with. Even amongst tribes within South Africa and even my home country you will find tribal division based on old power struggles. Obviously this is anecdotal and doesn’t show the full picture of a complex history.
It’s honestly up to each individual to divide reality from propaganda fed to you, even by those you love.
Your comparison to London, is inaccurate tho, NYC has many more blacks and from different countries. People assume you’re Black American because we have long history in the US ( 400) yrs unlike Blacks in London who arrived only after WWII Finally, you don’t like us, but you do have to respect us bc w/out US you couldn’t be here.
or there in the UK. The period after the WWII that saw the heavy migration to the UK is call the Wind Rush period. UK needed labour to rebuild her country and she looked to her colonies.
You really can’t compare American Black History to the Black history in the UK tho. American Blacks have been in the US for longer time and in greater numbers
For your information England has always been multi cultural. Yes there was mass migration after WW2 from the Caribbean and later Africa but Blacks along with other ethnic groups have always been present not just in England but Europe as a whole. Unfortunately the British schools do not teach us this.
I did know that actually, Liverpool was a slave port but You really can’t compare American Black History to the Black history in the UK tho. American Blacks have been in the US for longer time and in greater numbers
I like London! Awesome London Fog coats and clocks! 🙂
kb, it’s interesting you state that non-African-Americans couldn’t be in America if it wasn’t for the sacrifice of African-Americans. Interesting. First of all, the statement negates the West Indians who were part of the struggle for black freedom in this country. Many of your historical leaders actually had West Indian heritage. For example, Malcolm X (Grenadian mother), Stokley Carmichael (Trinidadian), Marcus Garvey (Jamaican), Louis Farakhan (Barbadian or “Bajan”/Jamaican parents), Colin Powell (Jamaican parentage), Shirley Chisolm (Bajan parents), and many, many more. As an aside, even the Haitian revolution had a Pan-African element: one of the three “Haitian” freedom fighters was a Jamaican voodoo/obeah priest known as Dutty Boukman.
Second, African-Americans fought for their own liberation from white supremacy in this country. They did not march/fight for fair immigration laws to allow black immigrants to migrate. The white power structure allowed black immigration for their own pernicious reasons. That does not mean black immigrants should not pay great respect to African-Americans, but it would be inaccurate to state these immigrants are indebted to African-Americans, when African-Americans really were not thinking about black immigrants, much less fighting for any, during their struggle for freedom and racial equality.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful in any way. Please understand that the entire African world holds African-American history/black freedom struggle in great regard, for it is truly awe-inspiring, and a model that we all should study and learn from. I just wanted to clarify an assumption that I see some posters making that is a bit off-putting and disingenuous, since it was the white American power structure that created immigration; it was not based solely or predominantly on the civil rights movement.
Now, once black immigrants are here in this country, then yes, we benefit from African-American struggles. No doubt. But it is my observation that the black immigrant is rarely considered in the African-American discourse for racial equality in this country. Just my observation.
Anyways, as I always preach–let’s look beyond our differences long enough to embrace our similarities. We may not be all the same, but we are all African, therefore we are all cousins. Ase.
Thanks for responding, African Americans don’t influence immigration policy, by the attitudes behind them. Our civil rights’ struggles, and our subsequent social, economic gains, have made the US palatable for Africans, Latinos, Asians, etc. Our fight for improved treatment produced an environment that has improved social and economic access for everyone.
Hi kb. Glad you responded. You’d be surprised that immigration laws have not been greatly impacted by the civil rights struggle. This is why Haitian refugees are turned around at sea by the Coast Guard (to even die on the high seas) while mostly white Cubans are allowed to stay under the “wet foot dry foot” policy. White Europeans are recruited to come here, while blacks join an immigration lottery system that can take over 20 years to complete. White immigrant families migrate together while black families are broken up with parents leaving their children behind for sometimes a decade or more. Black refugees are treated poorly (if they are even allowed to come, which most are not) while white refugees are fast tracked to citizenship. USCIS, formerly known as INS, along with ICE, are two of the most racist federal agencies in existence. Trust me, kb, black immigrants have no real civil rights when seeking entry to America because they are not citizens and are not entitled to most Constitutional rights under US law. This shouldn’t be too hard for you to verify if you look for reliable sources online, etc.
Actually…….Black Americans did fight for more Black immigrants to come here…that was a key point……and the immigration reform act of 196? came about because of the civil rights movement…before that the whites in power were very systematic in only allowing, for the most part, white European immigration….The civil rights movement changed that and it benefited all groups.
And we deeply regret having done so….
Please see the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which made it illegal to discriminate against someone not only based on their race, but also their national origin. This is a law that would not exist without African Americans. Granted, immigration was not the focus of the Civil Rights Movement, but our fight did, in fact, hugely benefit immigrants to the United States.
But if you can even admit that you benefit from black Americans when you get here while carrying thoughts of superiority how would you expect black Americans would treat or feel about you?
Black Americans are fully aware that you think you are superior. But since we know you are not, it doesn’t phase us we just don’t want you hanging out in our cultural space or benefitting from us. That is all….
What about The Pan-African Congresses, 1900-1945?
“While the Pan-African congresses lacked financial and political power, they helped to increase international awareness of racism and colonialism and laid the foundation for the political independence of African nations. African leaders such as Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana, Nnamdi Azikiwe of Nigeria, and Jomo Kenyatta of Kenya were among several attendees of congresses who subsequently led their countries to political independence. In May 1963, the influence of these men helped galvanize the formation of the Organization of African Unity (OAU), an association of independent African states and nationalist groups. ”
http://www.blackpast.org/perspectives/pan-african-congresses-1900-1945
Funny how they(Europeans) more or less got along when they decided the fate of our African Ancestors. The real reason they don’t get along is greed, they have a history of fighting for dominance over land, minerals, you name it, all of which doesn’t belong to them. So on he surface it would seem that they hate the very sight of one another but trust me they know when it’s necessary to come together.
If culture seems to be a dividing factor, there MUST be something else that binds us together. To be honest, I had people from other colors, creeds, and religions help me more in my life than my own culture. We need to look past culture and color and see the heart of a person.
It is all about colonialism and slavery. When I was in college, I worked for the summer one year, in London. There, some of the White English people at my job talked against the Black immigrants from their former colonies who had immigrated there to find jobs. They told me that I talked better worked harder, etc., etc., etc. They said they just generally liked African Americans better and that African Americans were smarter, and were not “heathens”. But I saw it as the same old routine. — pitting one group against another, due to the differences in the historical pasts. They seemed to have a grudge against those they had formerly colonized, but had gained their independence. It was in the same way that some obsessed with “White Rage” here (particularly from the South) have a grudge against African Americans because we broke out of slavery and their ancestors lost property and then had to pay for the labor that they had once gotten for free if we had just submitted and shut up. They, too, tell the people from the Caribbean and Africa that we are nothing but “heathens” and “thugs”. We should not internalize these superiority and inferiority complexes. It is called divide and conquer. If we don’t, pretty soon, we will all be back in slavery — those speaking creole and those speaking ebonics and those speaking patwa. Same difference!!
When I visited Spain I was told bad things about the gypsies, or Roma. I was offended that the person who was defaming the gypsies wanted me to feel superior to the gypsies in their own country. I could not do it; I did not want to do it. I just could not go to Spain and disrespect the gypsies who lived there, no matter how impoverished they were.
I don’t think Africans and West Indians know how much Black Americans are aware of their perceived superiority and how much it has hurt them.
We are not at all interested in collaborating with either at all, but both are constantly in our cultural space trying to benefit or enrich themselves.
I noticed this first at Howard University, whereby many rudely couldn’t wait to tell you how much better than were than American blacks, but were all attending on scholarships meant for black Americans while denigrating black Americans at every chance.
Both groups benefit heavily from our history, culture and experience without the stigma. And the fact that both groups pretend not to know if successful black Americans and try to gain advantage at the expense of black Americans via whites only further perpetuates the hate against both groups. We are fully aware of your two faced ness and undermining behavior and stay away from you at every chance.
If both groups are better than black Americans, why are you constantly in black American cultural spaces trying to benefit? You are in every black American website, blog, movie, institution, etc. smiling in our faces, two faced as can be and you think we don’t know who you are!
Every place in this country that we have done well and try to make community- PG County Maryland, Harlem, NY, Atlant,, GA, Houston- you move right in, smiling in our faces.
If you are superior, I would like to see you exit from. All ties to black American institutions, HBCUs, community, movies, and all other aspects of our lives and resources that you partake in and start from scratch as we had to do. Then come talk to us about superiority.
We are not benefitting from your culture, you are benefitting from ours. You could not do in majority black countries what descendants of slaves did at no more than 13% of the U S under horrendous conditions. We are proud of our culture and people just as you are yours, the only difference being we are not constantly in your cultural space looking to pilfer and profit while smiling in your faces.
We share your concern with not wanting the cultures melded because we have a unique experience here as non voluntary immigrants and are aware that we owe you nothing. Therefore, perhaps we can agree to stop the phoniness and stop the games.
A superiority complex comes from feelings of inferiority and black Americans are aware of it.
Please google superiority complex.
Namaste
Hmmmm…….sick of this topic but I’ll bite anyway….It’s obvious Caribbeans and Africans look at Black Americans through the racist white lenses….and some seem to NEED to so call look down on Black Americans…they NEED to…but I don’t think Black Americans care because hate to tell them they’re fooling themselves because 75% of Black Americans are in the middle class and Black Americans are some of the wealthiest and most educated Blacks in the world….blah blah blah…….Can they say the same…..and I do not dislike Caribbeans or Africans…that would be dumb to dislike people I don’t know who look like me because of what ‘others’ say about them…..but that’s me.
P.s how is African and Caribbean culture soo different from AA….really curious.
How different? Very different and not so much. My parents are Jamaican so can only speak on that. But Afriacans for one come from different countries so by that nature there are many differences. From a Jamaican perspective, our language (british english and a dialect), our food, our dance, our religions much more diverse christianity and more importantly we are a mixed people. I am not sure how you cannot think there is a difference. I mean heck I see a difference in a black american that grew up in Denver, CO and one from Ft. Lauderdale, FL. To be very specific, in 6th grade I was asked to explain soul food to the class, I had no idea what the teacher was talking about. I have never had grits let alone chitterlings then in 1984 and even now. Although I have had collard greens which is very close to callalo (jamaican breakfast) but not as good :). To me the biggest difference between Caribbeans/Africans (speaking from the 1980’s here – I am old ;D) is the willingness of caribe people being comfortable around many races – befriending and living with them. As well as not always assuming racism is in the air or even ignoring it for that matter. The reason is many and I will not entertain why that is but will leave it as slavery in the caribbean ended earlier and was not as harsh as the Americas. Blacks were or lighter blacks were in power very early on in our history. ok enough rambling… hope this helps.
You should listen to a song Peter Tosh wrote, which he and Jamaican Bob Marley sang. The verse was “Don’t care where you came from”, as long as you’re a Black man, you are an African. Don’t mind your nationality you’ve got the identity
of an African! They both originated from Jamaica.
Black people in the U.S. are more educated and more frequently found in the middle class, yes, but what you are forgetting is that Caribbeans, Africans and black Latin Americans in the U.S. are counted among those numbers of educated and middle class black people in the U.S.
If you do a Google search on the percentage of foreign black students vs. native-born black students attending American universities, you’ll see many established, respectable publications report that the number of foreign-born blacks in American universities far outpaces the number of native-born ones. 18% of U.S.-born blacks are college graduates. 40.9% of all black college students have at least one parent born in a foreign land. It is called Ivy League universities’ “dirty secret,” that only a miniscule number of black students they admit are American-born, and some American blacks argue that it’s not true diversity.
Black Enterprise posted an article this month about Nielsen’s research findings that the median income for foreign-born blacks in the U.S. is 30% higher than for U.S.-born blacks. It’s called “Black Immigrants in the U.S. Earning 30% More Than U.S. Born Blacks.” Foreign-born blacks in the U.S. play a primary role in the growing black economy.
They are very selective in who gets to the US. Let’s compare all of your people in your country and here with all black Americans.
I can’t believe you are here trying to argue that you are superior and then wonder why you are hated.
If you go to both Jamaica and Bugerua right now you would be straight up embarrassed by what you see, but you already know this. Disgusting with deep feelings of inferiority that you could not make it in a Black Country. Period…
its really not that different and excellent point.
It really is very different.
Oops. Have to repost my comment because I accidentally edited, and BGLH doesn’t seem to ever approve twice. Shrugs.
Black people in the U.S. are more educated and more frequently found in the middle class, yes, but what you forget is that Caribbeans, Africans and black Latin Americans in the U.S. are counted among the numbers of educated and middle class black people in the U.S.
If you do a Google search on the percentage of foreign black students vs. native-born black students attending American universities, you’ll see many established, respectable publications report that the number of foreign-born blacks in American universities far outpaces the number of native-born ones. 40.9% of all black college students have at least one parent born in a foreign land. 18% of U.S.-born blacks are college graduates. It is called Ivy League universities’ “dirty secret,” that only a miniscule number of black students they admit are American-born, and some American blacks argue that it’s not true diversity.
Black Enterprise posted an article this month about Nielsen’s research findings that the median income for foreign-born blacks in the U.S. is 30% higher than for U.S.-born blacks. It’s called “Black Immigrants in the U.S. Earning 30% More Than U.S. Born Blacks.” Foreign-born blacks in the U.S. play a primary role in the growing black economy, and are statistically more likely to start businesses.
What is your point about Ivy Leagues though. Black Smerucans don’t think you are nothing if you don’t go to one. There are thousands that go to HBCUs and none feel inferior to West Indians or Africans.
I received all three degrees from HBCUs and a doctorate from Howard and is dint and will never feel inferior to you, if I had none.
And if you are in these Uvey Leagues, please know that you obviously bypassed every University in the West Indies and Africa, correct? Why is that? Your people and culture are superior, right?
Listen, we are never going to feel inferior to you so please stop trying to convince yourselves as well as whites otherwise.
Oh, and why are your criminality rates to high all over the world as well as deportations due to criminality? Didn’t you tell them you were superior blacks?
I know I should stop reading these comments, but I’m so curious about what my people’s thoughts are on these topics. I keep picking up on a theme of assimilation, though. Question: why are some of my African-American sisters minimizing/ignoring/denying the differences of their African and Caribbean counterparts? Let’s use Africa as an example: 54 countries, tribes and languages in the 1000s. The diversity in one African country is vast, and none of it is like African-American culture. Why would anyone think it was? They are 1000s of miles away, many without contact to African-Americans or other diasporan Africans.
Now, the African diaspora: there has been some analyses of the slave ship voyages showing that different tribes were enslaved and brought to different slave destinations. Makes sense, considering that the Europeans carved-up Africa and also carved-up the so-called new world; each European conqueror brought African slaves from the area of Africa it conquered to the area of the new world it conquered. For example, many of the slaves from the Congo were brought to Brazil; many of the Mande/Mende from Sierra Leone were brought to the States (and a great deal of Fulani, too); the Fons and Dahomey tribes are strongly represented in Haiti; Jamaica has Ashanti, Fanti, Koromantee, etc. Of course, it’s not that there isn’t overlap–of course there is (especially since some African tribes were in multiple African locations subjecting them to multiple European colonizers). But the cultures of the different countries in the diaspora were many times shaped by the influence of different African tribes. This accounts for many of the basic differences in speech patterns, along with the different European conqueror/colonizers’ influences as well. Additionally, non-African, non-European influences also make a great difference. In the states, Native Americans seem to have had an influence on African-Americans; indentured East Indian and Chinese, as well as Middle Eastern merchants, have played a strong role in creating Caribbean culture; and native peoples throughout Central and South America also predominate those cultures. Another side note: indentured Irish greatly influenced some Caribbean islands, especially their accents (e.g. Barbados).
What I’m trying to say is that there are a great deal of differences. In the 70s and 80s, probably even up to the early 90s, Caribbean immigrants didn’t know much about African-American food and customs (sans TV show stereotypes), and vice versa. I argue that some of this still exists today: going to a Trinidadian restaurant to eat roti does not make me know the culture of Trinidad; attending crop over in Barbados would give me exposure to Bajan culture (at least one aspect, anyway), but I would not be so presumptuous as to think Bajan culture was the same as my own (just because I went to a street party). In fact, visiting New Orleans and eating delicious gumbo, Cajun jambalaya, shrimp & grits, etc. doesn’t make me Louisiana creole (although it would probably make me very, very happy lol).
One last example: I attended a wedding in Jamaica years ago. Some African-American female friends went, too. The wedding was on the North Coast, but many of us stayed on and went all over, as usual. However, the African-American friends were only there for the wedding, so they were in Ocho Rios where there were black people everywhere (streets, shops, hotels, et cetera). You know what they told people when they came back to the States? Jamaica was predominantly white! I was so shocked that I had to ask why. It appears that they mistook European and American tourists for Jamaicans. Yet, all of the Jamaican guests knew the culturally obvious–because Jamaicans know that Jamaica is predominantly black (92% according to a recent census), with small populations of non-African minorities. So, the Jamaicans at the wedding correctly assumed that most if not all of the whites in the environment were tourists. Side note: if any of them were white Jamaicans, they would have socialized with us, so it would have been readily apparent lol
Bottom line: let’s appreciate each other! It’s okay if we’re all a bit different. But, we have so much to offer one another. Besides, we also have so much in common, that our differences should be the “pepper in the pot.” One love, everyone. Ase
I know this and I know Africans and West Indians are diverse in culture, language and everything else that makes up a people…so are Black Americans. ….I have been to the Caribbean and Africa….I’m not ignorant….what I and others are arguing against, and maybe I am interpreting this incorrectly, is the disgusting assumption by you all that Black Americans are not educated, all in jail, do not have or come from people, all live in slums, listen to rap or whatever other shitty RACIST conclusions you have convinced yourselves of concerning Black Americans…Black Americans are educated/want higher education, want and do have families, safe neighborhoods (Black Americans actually have live in wealthy neighborhood’s filled with other Black Americans..but you don’t know or hear about them)….etc etc etc….so in that respect how are Africans Caribbean so different…..that is what Im talking about…
And black Americans don’t look at non-US black people through the racist white lens??? I would address everything else in your post but it is clear how uninformed and ignorant you are.
Honestly, this division is something I don’t understand. When non-American Blacks come to America they are able to enjoy certain things because of the struggle of Black Americans. The acceptance that many non-American Black people receive from whites is quite conditional. The same way non-American Black people deride Black Americans in private, white people do the same to you also.
Well, when the klu Klux Klan enters the room. We will all see who is left standing. Anything oher than white will be hunted and hung. Smh
Not sure why you would take offense, sounds like SS is saying the same as you. ‘quite conditional’ NOT unconditional.
So true. Those cave beast is fill with pure hate
Tell me about it. I remember visiting New Orleans back in 1996 and on one occasion I approached a WM on the street to ask him the time. Before I could even open my mouth he told me he didn’t have any spare change and hurriedly walked past me. Black people no matter where you’re from, we are all seen in the same light. Massa might give you a pass for your obedient behaviour but he knows exactly his motives for doing so. All he is doing is carrying on the works of his forefathers by pitting us against each other.
Don’t forget that West Indians were in the U.S. and played a major role in the Civil Rights struggle in this country.
Marcus Garvey for one.
They do the same thing to us.
Amen!!!
I didn’t discover Africans and West Indians felt this way until my freshman year in college. One of my African friends was riding with me on the bus to the grocery store when a louder group of black college students got on. Then he stated to me, an African American young woman from Detroit, that this is why he would never a black American. They’re too lazy, irresponsible, disrespectful, loud, and wild. I stared at him blankly, confused by this foolishness coming from his mouth. I tutor you in Calc and get better grades. As I continued to stare and blink, he tried to pacify me by saying I was different though.
Honestly that was the last time I hung out with him.
And if you went to his country, you probably wouldn’t have safe drinking water or dependable electricity. A whole country full of “his people” and the best thing they can do, is get the hell out of it, and come to “our” country, because of our sacrifice. . Your friend need to go back were he came from.
Early on in my life I knew Black immigrant acted like this, and never trusted them, and always felt black america were foolish for accepting them.
Wow, a white racist would stand up and clap after reading your first paragraph. Great job!!! /s
As he should because you come here and want to be an oppressor… we got something for you though…
Smart girl
I agreed with your comment up until the part about having “better grades”. There’s no need for the comparison. By comparing grades your implying that your ethnicity had something to do with your accomplishments and so makes your entire comment appear to be hypocritical. Otherwise, the guy could benefit from putting aside his racist lens. Especially since he profits from the hard work and history of the “black Americans” he seems to know so little of.
You lack reading comprehension
I have no reason to believe why I do seeing as you provided zero explanation. Everything I wrote was the truth. She pointed out that her race (African american) did not hold up to his stereotype – hence, race was a factor. REASON: I don’t put myself above someone else just because I got a higher grade EVEN if I dislike the person and am trying to make a point about how race does not indicate how a person behaves/ performs in school. I would be proud of my own accomplishments. Period. Condescending always makes me feel awful no matter the situation. Sorry if that offends people. I just think it’s more important to be confident in oneself.
But the whole point of that statement was to emphasize the irony of the man negatively stereotyping people like her, when she – as a member of the group he’s stereotyping – is academically superior to him and actually tutors him. Nowhere did she say or imply that that fact made her better than him. It’s simply the irony of the situation.
How, ironic. Clearly you’re the one who lacks reading comprehension. Not reina. Try again, maybe this time you’ll get it.